And Melody, I really, really am trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Nights are hard for me--the dark creeps me out (always has, so just magnifies everything now). And I'm here at work, though am leaving because I MUST clean up the house some before he stops tomorrow to drop DD and pick up mail. (Not to worry, I don't go home at noon--we won't cross paths.)

And weekends are hard, too, because I'm not at work (though may be again this Saturday) and the MB here isn't as active.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He doesn't think he needs you or he would be there. If you would leave him alone he would quickly find out otherwise.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is all I have to hold on to, to keep me going in my dark plan. I just keep thinking further ahead--"what if we really do lose our marriage?" Hard for me to focus on just today.

(I need to go back to Dewt's verses he gave me--this is exactly what they apply to--not worrying about tomorrow.)

LL

Okay all. Three whole dark days. He hasn't even tried to call me which now makes me really nervous, and we're coming up on a weekend which are the days when I really fall apart.

Hang with me. Last night I had like 10 wonderful minutes at one point where I said "I can actually do this. I won't die." It was fairly short-lived, though.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> .

Hang with me. Last night I had like 10 wonderful minutes at one point where I said "I can actually do this. I won't die." It was fairly short-lived, though.

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those moments of peace and sanity will come more and more if you stick to this, LL. The truth is that you won't die and you CAN actually do this. The longer you do this the MORE PEACE you will feel inside. I promise you. It is already trying to come through as you detach from the insanity. You can do this!

LL, Sorry I missed your post. I will be posting to you. I know how hard weekend is. You feel lonely, no companianship, and left in dark. I will come very often. Please we are all here for you. I maybe very soon go to the same path as you. I try not to be afraid. I keep praying.

LL -

You are doing great. Those moments of calmness and peace will come more frequently. Mine did.

I remember how happy I was when I first experienced that feeling. It was fleeting, but I knew it was possible.

And each day, I experienced it stronger and longer. It is a process. It is nothing less than what you expect WH to do with the OW and his alcohol. Lead by example. That is the way I look at it (minus the alcohol).

I'll check in with you over the weekend. You can do it! I promise! As one of the other posters here has in his signature line, it is not Rocket Surgery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

Okay, we have a problem:

First, we spoke. He called my cell about 11:45am. I ignored it. He didn't leave a message. He then called my work phone at 11:50am. I could tell from the phone ID that he was calling from his shop. This was BAD, because he was to have DD picked up 10 minutes later and it's at least a 20 minute drive.

I had to answer because I needed to know if I had to change plans and go get her.

Conversation as best I remember:

Him: Am I still picking up DD?
Me: Yes.
(long pause)
Him: Beth called (his sister).
Me: And?
Him: Dad has prostate cancer.
(me gasping in shock)
Me: When does he have surgery?
Him: March 18th.
Me: At least this kind is very survivable if it's caught early.
Him: Whatever. Bye.
(click)

He is very, very, very, very cold. By his tone there is not one speck of love left for me at this point. That hurts bad. I want so badly still for him to miss me. I don't think he does at all.

Second, I really like his father (while am not as close as some of you, where the FIL might give up their own son and keep the DIL, because my FIL gave up his own wife and married his mistress so thinks he can't impose rules on son), I still don't want to just shut them out of my life.

I'm trying to figure out how I handle all this. I really am worried about him. I don't want to appear cold and unfeeling and not be there through his illness. My own WH was there for me for the critical period when my father was in ICU in December with pneumonia.

Help???!! I haven't called him back. I'm not going to. I was not drawn into a relationship about "us". But I'm really feeling down right now about everything, and not knowing what to do next.

LL

LL, you are so kind. You should call your FIL and tell him you care. Do whatever you can. I now that you are disappointed that your WH doesn't sound loving. Don't put too much hope on him. Follow the plan.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Okay, we have a problem:


LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, what is the problem? The only problem I see here is that you broke Plan B again. You could have just let him roll over to voicemail. He is a big boy and can take care of himself.

In the meantime, call your FIL and see how he is.

I didn't let the office phone roll to voice mail because I was afraid if he didn't get me, he'd think I was on my way to get her, and she'd end up stranded with no ride. I want to know where she is and that she has transportation. The alternative HS isn't in the middle of town; it's in an industrial-type area right at the edge of the city. Not easy to walk somewhere and call (which is why I like her there--not easy for her to run off).

It came down in this case to making sure my DD was safe. That was more important at that second than contact vs. no contact. I wouldn't have had to take the initial conversation beyond the "yes" point (that he had to get DD), but when he said Beth called, I knew something was wrong in the family. She never calls anyone. I wanted to know who was sick or who died. It has been my family for 23 years. Once I got the answer, wanting off the phone AND basically being in shock about FIL's cancer, I did show zero emotion.

I do just have this really bad feeling that no matter what I do, that this is going to be one of the marriage failures and not successes. Makes me so sad. (and Melody, I AM doing my very best to stay dark--I could have called him right back, or called him after talking to DD--but I posted here instead and you guys stopped me).

Again, shocked, sad, worried, and going into a weekend with a DD who wants to move in with WH. Not going to be easy.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

I do just have this really bad feeling that no matter what I do, that this is going to be one of the marriage failures and not successes. Makes me so sad. (and Melody, I AM doing my very best to stay dark--I could have called him right back, or called him after talking to DD--but I posted here instead and you guys stopped me).

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, I think your feeling may be right if you keep on the same path. I really do. As long as he has no motivation to end the affair, this could go on forever. He could go on drinking forever.

Unless, you stick to a serious Plan B, I predict that you are exactly right, that your marriage will fail. You have an excellent chance to give him a serious wake up call and you just REFUSE to take that opportunity because you have to have your daily fix.

You daily find new excuses to contact him. It is ALWAYS something new every day. Some new manufactured crisis. I have never seen anything like it. You choose a very short term and unfulfilling fix FOR YOURSELF over a potentially successful long term plan.

So, yes, I have to agree. You will probably be one of the cases that just don't make it because you can't even stick to a serious strategy for more than 2 days.

Success or failure...what is your measurement? If he returns, no matter what (drinking, flirting) is that a success? No matter what you do, it is ultimately his decision. And I can't say the Harley principles are 100%, but you do stand a better chance with these principles than the way you've been handling (or at least my opinion).

It was contact. You could reiterate no contact, or you could call Beth that you would like to hear news, and please don't expect WH to give news...he won't leave messages. Call FIL and get back into the loop. Also ask that they support no contact with WH from you (not that they maintain NC with WH, but that they don't ask him to relay a message to you.)

And can I whack you? You are worried about how your WH is going to handle this? WHO CARES? How are YOU going to handle this? Everyone deals with grief a different way. He is a big boy, and can use a phone (obviously) and make an appt with hospice or a grief counselor. No matter how much you worry about him, he is going to handle it the way he handles it...

CUT OUT THE THINKING FOR HIM!!!!!

I know from experience, this mothering attitude used to permeate every conversation, attitude, thought about H. It led to disrespect without it being my intention. Just LET HIM BE!!!! You DON'T know what is best for him. You DO know what is best for yourself. Start doing those things for yourself that you've been putting off!!!

Been thinking aobut the Mom/gambling situation. Why cover her bounced checks? No, really, if you don't cover it, she has to cover it, or go hungry (doubt she will do) or she can't write another check there...or perhaps...ugh, get arrested, maybe long overdue. You'd hate to think she would be put in jail, but isn't her activity illegal?

Sounds like you have prevented the people you love most from feeling any pain or consequences for their actions... so they have been continuing the same lamebrained actions knowing you will bail them out.

So the person in this situation feeling the most pain?.....

And now that you are removing yourself from these painful situations, you actively seek out pain? What, are you a masochist? I know, it just doesn't feel right...ENJOY IT!!! The release from the drama!!! Maybe the chaos was serving a purpose in your life, and you're not ready to give it up yet? I can think of some other *safer* chaotic situations you can replace them with (paintball, eating a quart of ice cream in one sitting, standing on your head for an hour, etc.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> Maybe the chaos was serving a purpose in your life, and you're not ready to give it up yet? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, I hope you carefully think about this statement because I have long suspected the same thing. The biggest problem with no contact with your H is that you would no longer have the daily chaos, ie: DIVERSION. Folks in alcoholic families love to manufacture crises so they keep each other whipped up into an emotional frenzy.
They are addicted to the chaos.

Are there any Alanon meetings on the weekends in your area?

What is Alanon meeting?

SHMI,

No, really, if you don't cover it, she has to cover it, or go hungry (doubt she will do) or she can't write another check there...or perhaps...ugh, get arrested, maybe long overdue. You'd hate to think she would be put in jail, but isn't her activity illegal?

Yes, it's very illegal. We've had many a conversation about it. I would be 100% ready to let her suffer the consequences if it weren't for the situation with my dad and his dementia and the effect it would have on him. He doesn't deserve it. It's not his fault. He's just too out-of-it to really know what she's doing with the money.

So the person in this situation feeling the most pain?.....

I don't know. Santa Clause??? The Easter bunny??

Okay, how do I deal with the daily pain of seeing photos still in my house (take them down, I guess), working on DS's scrapbook for graduation (WH is in most of his photos), or even if I ever again want to enjoy watching a family video of when my kids were little? I was always the one behind the camera. Guess who that puts in all the videos?

What, are you a masochist?

MelodyLane did tell me I won the Mental Masturbation award. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I do hate the drama. I pray for a calm day. I remember a number of days last summer before this all blew up, driving in to work, beautiful outside, DD not in school at the time so no problems there, WH not drinking yet, not seeing OW yet....things were just so peaceful. And I'd pray every morning and thank God for my life being so perfect. Then it all fell apart. I don't think I've ever had so many things come down on me at once.

I'm just waiting for my heart arrhythmias to act up again. They usually do around this time of year just to scare me to death. So far, they've been mild.

LL

OK. Next, I predict we will hear that you broke NC to tell your WH that you think you are having a heart attack.

Then, he will tell you to f-off (again), and you will come here all upset that he said that to you (again).

And that you had to pick up DD from school (because WH dropped the ball again), your mother will be yelling at you for more money, your DS will want something or other, you will be behind at work and housecleaning, and have to drive yourself to the hospital.

Only to be told you are having an anxiety attack because of the way you allow everyone in your life to treat you.

You seem to create what you fear with alarming regularity!

Honestly, from your posts, I think your DS is the most mature, level-headed member of your family. Perhaps you should just start letting him make all the decisions.

Hm. Something to think about.

SS

What is Alanon meeting?
From http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

Al-Anon's Purpose
To help families and friends of alcoholics recover from the effects of living with the problem drinking of a relative or friend. Similarly, Alateen is our recovery program for young people. Alateen groups are sponsored by Al-Anon members.

Our program of recovery is adapted from Alcoholics Anonymous and is based upon the Twelve Steps, Twelve Traditions, and Twelve Concepts of Service.

The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend.

Al-Anon/Alateen is not affiliated with any other organization or outside entity.

ML,

In consulting with the very worn schedule I keep in my purse:

Sat Nite - 8pm: "Saturday night step study AFG" (on the south side of the city, so quite a ways away from my house, but I could probably find it. Not like I live in Chicago or anything.)

Sun Nite - 7pm: "Kiss Al-Anon" (at a church about 3-4 miles from my house--I know where it is.)

So if I go to one, what do I do? Right now it's not the alcohol so much that is messing me up, it's the fact that he's walked out on me for OW and I'm worried it's for good.

SS,

Nope, over the last several years, when my heart decides it's going to skip about every other or every 3rd beat for an hour or two just to totally freak me out, I've gotten very good at taking myself directly to the hospital ER (though have been scolded a few times by the nurses for not letting others bring me, so the last trip I made was with my pastor). Actually, I've NEVER had my H take me for those. He's come to surprisingly few Dr. appointments, tests, surgeries, etc with me. Very uncomfortable in hospital settings, and just makes me more nervous.

Only to be told you are having an anxiety attack because of the way you allow everyone in your life to treat you.

Actually the heart thing is a true medical condition. I try not to think about it when it's not acting becaues it does frighten me. I've had test after test and been told that I have a variety of arrhythmias caused by microscopic abnormalities in the electrical system of my heart, but that my heart appears structurally normal (no physical damage) so this lessens my chances a great deal of them being life-threatening.

However, I HAVE thought I had an ulcer or something worse with my stomach, and after tests found out it was nothing but anxiety. That was about 4 years ago, when I was first put on Celexa.

I think your DS is the most mature, level-headed member of your family.

I totally agree with your statement. (Funny thing is though, other than my anxiety problems which my mother also suffers from, DS and I have almost identical personalities.)

LL

I have read and watched this saga unfold and I have come to a conclusion...mind you this is simply MY opinion.

I think that a Plan B was implemented for the WRONG reason. Plan B is implemented when the BS is so close to losing feelings for the WS that they have to protect themselves by going to Plan B. If she were close to losing those feelings, she would be embracing this plan. As it stands, she is NOWHERE near that loss. She is using Plan B in order to get him to return home...sort of like making him see what he is missing...which is NOT what it's meant for...at least not what I read of the Harley concepts.

I think that Plan B is a bust as long as she is willing to put up with the drinking and the OW. I have YET to see anything from her that contradicts my statement. What I do see is that she is upset and wants him back home...which means (to me) that she is still ready willing and able to ride out the insanity of his boozing and women.

It's being used for the wrong reason. It's being used as a manipulation tool. Manipulating him into wanting her...and into coming home...regardless of anything else.

Now, I could be terribly off base with MY opinion...but the more that I read...the more I am thinking that I am right.

Melody,

You are one smart cookie...and right more times than not. I think that the reasons you had for encouraging her to go to a Plan B were great, I just don't think that LL is working off the same sheet of music that you are.

JMHO
committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> ML,

In consulting with the very worn schedule I keep in my purse:

Sat Nite - 8pm: "Saturday night step study AFG" (on the south side of the city, so quite a ways away from my house, but I could probably find it. Not like I live in Chicago or anything.)

Sun Nite - 7pm: "Kiss Al-Anon" (at a church about 3-4 miles from my house--I know where it is.)

So if I go to one, what do I do? Right now it's not the alcohol so much that is messing me up, it's the fact that he's walked out on me for OW and I'm worried it's for good.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alanon addresses the LIVING problem that exists in spouses of alcoholics. Alanon is not about your H, but about *YOU*. You need to go there to learn how to live normally and not in constant REACTION to a sick, crazy alcoholic. They will help you break your addiction to this chaotic lifestyle and an abusive alcoholic.

PLEASE GO!!!

THAT is where you will find your sanity, I think.

You need to educate yourself about why you are doing the things you are doing.

They will understand.

SS