Amy

I missed the lie, call me stupid but I don't understand what you lied about. I see you said you lied, but about what? Tell us I can't seem to find the LIE in your posts.

Hmmmm

So in his irrational angry state he would destroy his own credit as well......sad commentary.

Let me ask you something do you think he might try and move marital assets out of your reach?

Have you talked to a lawyer about this?

Destroying your credit would be a double whammy financially if you did indeed wind up divorced.
I hate to encourage people to start talking to divorce lawyers because it sometimes sets things in motion that become harder to stop...you talk a lawyer then he talks to a lawyer and so on.

But if he has made it clear he would deliberately harm you financially then I lean ever so slightly towards talking to an attorney about protecting yourself financially....doesn't have to include about getting a divorce.

I know. I have hesitated for all the reasons you listed.

I will ask my IC about it tomorrow, as I see her after our MT session.

Amy

Amy Maree

Where are you? I hope you are doing better. Please post us with how things are now. Are you still playing the game with the rest of us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm still playing. I had to go cook.

It wasn't too bad. Their dog was inside, and when I opened the door, he was standing there right in front of me, wagging his big tail, with a little kid sock hanging out of his mouth.

I laughed and talked to him. When he "talks" back (I am describing the dog, not WH), it sounds like he is growling, except if you look at his tail, you can see he is not a danger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The sight of that dog in my memory will get me through today.

I don't expect to hear from WH again, except for business and counseling, for a long time.

Craziness. Thank you all for being there for me today. I sure did need it.

Amy

Amy, I want to answer your first question. Is it possible for Husband's feelings to return? This board is full of believers who expect nothing less, isn't it? Would you have ever believed how much you loved your husband when you first discovered the A? It is an absolute wakeup call.
He will get his wakeup call as well. You've got to be strong and consistent. It isn't easy but when you get to a certain point, call it indifference, your husband will not only notice but be very concerned. How bout for starters you NEVER find yourself in the company of the OW. Have a 3rd party pick up the kids if necessary. Put pressure on the situation. Look out for yourself. I have been in the exact same position I really have. I used to serve drinks in my home to W's former lover and pretend I didn't know. The reason was to protect her reputation because it is a large group of people. She repaid me by making a monkey out of me. No more.

Hi Amy,

{{HUGS}} to you tonight.I am giving out a lot of hugs tonight since so many seem so down.

Listen I wanted to mention something but stunned dad beat me to the punch.Regardless of whether or not your WH is serious about D,you need to start gathering some information about the potential for D.Ask to make an appointment with a lawyer just for a *consult.I did this with the knowledge that I did not want to take it any further than getting to know my rights and my lawyer agreed.No pressure.

Your WH is hanging on for dear life to this last shred of A contact and he is not making any rational decisions in the rest of his life which include you and the children.It's still all about him,have you noticed?

It's time to act like Mother Bear and start protecting you and your kids.Growl if you must! Do NOT let your WH pressure,coerce,manipulate or berate you into maintaining the status quo.If he is willing to destroy your financial situation and put you and your kids at risk for being without a home and/or worse,then you need to prepare for that,AHEAD of time.

Get out of that bumper car and get back on track! I know you can do it.This is crucial to your wellbeing and that of your children.They only have you as the stable parent right now.You are smart,I know that.Make an (atty)appointment soon and start getting your ducks in a row.You can deal with the emotional A business on the side.

O

Hugs Amy

I am back in town and online. Sad to see your current posts.

I think you nailed it. He is just like you say. An addict trying to keep his fix. At present it sounds like this is the only contact he can have with OW. He sees removal of children as threat to his contact and he is lashing out, threatening you to try and maintain the contact.

I am sad that he is threatening you financially. I agree with others. Time to get legal advice in order to protect you and your children.

YOU need to be able to do what is right for you and your children. I see getting this advice as a way to enable you to be able to do this without having to succumb to his threats and demands.

One thing. Do you work or have your own independant income? If not are you able to? Do you have skills, etc... If not perhaps time to start considering training or ways to enable you to supplement financial support if it does indeed turn out to be inadequate for your needs.

Sometimes I am glad that our legal system is a little different, in that here in Oz you can get a legal separation and child support is more generous that what your post indicates is the position there. Legal separation means that assets and children are protected without moving to divorce.

How long have you plan A'd Amy. I think you need to go ahead and remove boys from Scouts. You know you are doing it for them and not to stop his fix. Then continue plan A. If your love bank is getting dried up, maybe time for plan B. But I don't know if it is time yet. Your H seemed to be coming around just over a week ago. Maybe a little bit more of plan A after the anger dies when you remove the boys. Then plan B. I know you have Tough Love (the book). I think it fits well with plan B. What are you thoughts on this?

Anyway. I had a nice time with my kids. Daughter has to have surgery on her toe at end of March so I will visit them again then. Caught up with UNI, friends and family.

Always in my thoughts
Donna (alias C&S)

C&S -

So glad to see you back! I'm glad you had a good time with your kids. Bummer about daughter's toe!

I did have a good job, and WH told me to quit it, he just wanted me to take care of him and the boys and the house and be happy. This was after he knew he had feelings for OW.

I started a personal chef business, but I only have 1 client right now. And I manage our Homeowner's Association. Right now, I don't make our house payment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I do have skills, though. I just worry about finding something that is compatible with my kids' schedule. But, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.

I am going to talk to my IC tomorrow about getting an attorney, and maybe get a reference. I need to get some facts, so he can't just throw unfounded threats around and bully me.

I have Plan A'd successfully for about 3 weeks now. I found this site at the beginning of February. Maybe 4 weeks. We basically have NC, though. Except through email about business or kids. By his request.

I cannot just take my boys out of Scouts. I need it to be a joint decision. Right now, with his state of mind, that would make him crash and burn. And the boys and I would be right in the middle of his mess. I have to do this one the hard way.

I am going to pray very hard tonight, and ask the Holy Spirit to work in me tonight and prepare me for my MT appointment tomorrow morning.

I have the Tough Love book on order from Barnes and Noble. I ordered it the first week of January! When I was in picking up books I ordered 3 weeks ago the other day, they said it had been ordered and would be here soon. I am doubtful this book is ever going to get to Idaho!

Thanks for following my story and posting to me. I was thinking about you just a few days ago, wondering how your holiday was going. Do they call them holidays, or vacations in Oz? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Chat at you later. I am exhausted after last night. I'm going to get some rest.

Love, Amy

Amy,

You're trying to make a joint decision with an addict right now who is incapable of protecting your children. I understand that you're unhappy about doing that....but to do otherwise is to enable his addiction. You are very close to Plan B here.

Here are the outlined divorce laws in your state of Idaho...this isn't a substitute for professional advice, but it does give you an idea of what your rights are because it sounds to me like you're a bit confused. All you have to do is read this stuff to know that your H is on shaky legal ground. The general grounds for divorce in your state...unlike those with no fault only....make it possible for you to file on a variety of complaints that would him at a great disadvantage and insure that you are more financially rewarded than he is. Scaring you is his way of keeping you in line and off guard...so educate yourself and get some legal protection financially.

Idaho Divorce Laws
RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS AND WHERE TO FILE: The spouse filing for divorce must have been a resident of Idaho for 6 full weeks immediately prior to filing for divorce. The divorce should be filed in: (1) the county where the defendant resides; or (2) if the defendant is not a resident of Idaho, the county where the plaintiff resides or designates in the complaint. [Idaho Code; Title 5, Chapter 404; and Title 32, Chapter 701].

LEGAL GROUNDS FOR DIVORCE: No-Fault: (1) irreconcilable differences; and (2) living separate and apart without cohabitation for a period of 5 years. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 603, and 610 ].

General: (1) adultery; (2) permanent insanity; (3) conviction of a felony; (4) willful desertion; (5) cruelty; (6) willful neglect; and (7) habitual intemperance (drunkenness). [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 603].

NAME OF COURT IN WHICH TO FILE FOR DIVORCE: District Court. " In the District Court of the __________ Judicial District for the State of Idaho, In and For the County of __________."

TITLE OF DIVORCE ACTION: Complaint for Divorce.

NAME USED TO DESCRIBE SPOUSE FILING FOR DIVORCE: Plaintiff.

NAME USED TO DESCRIBE OTHER SPOUSE IN DIVORCE: Defendant.

TITLE OF FINAL DIVORCE PAPERS: Decree of Divorce.

LEGAL SEPARATION: There is no legal provision in Idaho for legal court-ordered separation. However, the spouses may live separate and apart. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapter 610].

SIMPLIFIED OR SPECIAL DIVORCE PROCEDURES: Divorces may be granted upon the default of the defendant. In addition, marital settlement agreements regarding property are specifically authorized. They must be in writing and notarized in the same manner as deeds. If the marital settlement agreement has any provisions which concern real estate, it must be recorded in the county recorder's office. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 917 and 918].

MEDIATION OR COUNSELING REQUIREMENTS: There is a mandatory 20-day delay in the granting of all divorces, unless there is an agreement by the spouses. During this period, either spouse may request that there be a meeting held to determine if there is any practical chance for reconciliation. If there is determined to be a chance for reconciliation and there are minor children of the marriage, the court may delay the proceedings for up to 90 days for an attempt at reconciliation. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapter 716].

PROPERTY DISTRIBUTION: Idaho is a "community property" state. Each spouse's separate property consists of (1) all property acquired prior to the marriage; (2) property acquired by gift either before or during the marriage; and (3) property acquired by individual gift before or during the marriage. The court will divide all other property (the community property) of the spouses in a substantially equal manner, unless there are compelling reasons to provide otherwise. The court will consider the following factors: (1) any marital misconduct, (2) the length of the marriage; (3) the age and health of the spouses; (4) the occupation of the spouses; (5) the amount and sources of income of the spouses; (6) the vocational skills of the spouses; (7) the employability of the spouses; (8) any premarital agreement; (9) the present and potential earning capability of each spouse; (10) any retirement benefits, including social security, civil service, military and railroad retirement benefits; (11) the liabilities of the spouses; (12) the needs of the spouses; and (13) whether the property award is in stead of or in addition to maintenance. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 712 and 903].

ALIMONY/MAINTENANCE/SPOUSAL SUPPORT: The court may award maintenance to a spouse, if that spouse (1) lacks sufficient property to provide for his or her reasonable needs; and (2) is unable to support his or herself through employment. The award of maintenance is based on the following factors: (1) the time necessary to acquire sufficient education and training to enable the spouse to find appropriate employment, and that spouse's future earning capacity; (2) the duration of the marriage; (3) the ability of the spouse from whom support is sought to meet his or her needs while meeting those of the spouse seeking support; (4) the financial resources of the spouse seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to such spouse and such spouse's ability to meet his or her needs independently; (5) the tax consequences to each spouse; (6) the age of the spouse seeking maintenance; (7) the physical and emotional conditions of the spouse seeking maintenance; and (8) the fault of either party. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapter 705].

SPOUSE'S NAME: There is no legal provision in Idaho for restoration of a spouse's name upon divorce. However, there is a general statutory provision that allows a person to apply for a name change by petition to the court. [Idaho Code; Title 7, Chapter 7-802].

CHILD CUSTODY: Joint or sole child custody may be awarded according to the best interests of the child, and based on the following factors: (1) the preference of the child; (2) the wishes of the parents; (3) the mental and physical health of all individuals involved; (4) the relationship of the child with parents, siblings, and other significant family members; (5) the child's adjustment to his or her home, school, and community; (6) a need to promote continuity and stability in the life of the child; and (7) domestic violence, whether or not in the presence of the child. Joint custody is allowed if it can be arranged to assure the child with frequent and continuing contact with both parents. Unless shown otherwise, it is presumed that joint custody is in the best interests of the child. If the child is residing with a grandparent, the court may recognize the grandparent as having the same standing as a parent. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 717 and 717B].

CHILD SUPPORT: The court may order either or both parents to provide child support until the child is 18, without regard to marital misconduct, and based upon the following factors: (1) the financial resources of the child; (2) the standard of living the child enjoyed during the marriage; (3) the physical and emotional conditions and educational needs of the child; (4) the financial resources, needs, and obligations of both the noncustodial and the custodial parent (normally, not including the parent's community property share of the financial resources or obligations with a new spouse); (5) the availability of reasonable medical insurance coverage for the child; (6) and the actual tax benefits achieved by the parent claiming the federal dependency exemption for income tax purposes. There are provisions in Idaho for child support payments to be paid to the clerk of the court unless otherwise ordered by the court. There are specific child support guidelines adopted by the Idaho Supreme Court which are presumed to be correct unless evidence is presented that shows that the award would be inappropriate or unjust. Finally, all child support orders issued in Idaho must contain provisions allowing enforcement of the order by income withholding if the payments become over 1 month late. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 706, 706A, and 1205].

PREMARITAL AGREEMENTS: The agreement must be in writing and signed by both parties and is enforceable without consideration. After marriage, the agreement may be amended or revoked by a written agreement signed by both parties and this amendment is enforceable without consideration. The agreement is not enforceable if proven that (1) the party did not execute the agreement voluntarily; (2) the agreement was unconscionable when executed in that the party was not provided a fair and reasonable disclosure of the property or financial obligations of the other party, did not voluntarily waive the right to the disclosure of this information and did not have adequate knowledge of these obligations. If an agreement term modifies or terminates spousal support causing the party to be eligible for public assistance, the court may require the party to pay spousal support. If the marriage is determined to be void, the agreement is enforceable only to the extent necessary to avoid an inequitable result. [Idaho Code; Title 32, Chapters 922, 924, 925, and 926].

As you can see....his threats are a bunch of bunk and he's just attempting to scare you. You will get child support....and I bet you any amount of money that you will also get spousal support until such time as you can support yourself. Amy you have got to stop letting this guy scare you. Go and seek legal counsel to inquire about interim support and protecting your assets. You need to start getting your ducks in a row here if you need to go to Plan B.

Why did he think you told the Scoutmaster? Does the scoutmaster know? BTW...I still think you should tell him quietly...perhaps when you withdraw the boys which I hope you will do soon. Why should your husband change his behavior when there are really no consequences for his actions?

Star*fish -

Thank you for the info! Wow. He is threatening me with bunk.

I haven't told the Scoutmaster.

The other patrol leader has been very supportive, and she is just so worried about WH. He is not the man he used to be. It is very scary.

WH called her H the other night very angry asking her H if, "There was a problem, are you mad at me, do we need to talk about something?" In a very agressive way. WH and her H had been to a Scout swimming event, and WH thought her H was glaring at him. She has no idea why WH got that idea. That is when WH called me, asking if I'd told, telling me what he would do if I had, etc.

We go to what could be our last MT session this morning. In less than 2 1/2 hours.

Amy

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Amy Maree ]</small>

If the question was did you tell the husband the answer is no...

If the question was did you tell the wife...the answer is

She has expressed concern over husband lately and I alleviated her concerns about him...
she is so very worried about him...
blink eyes...
change subject...

are you lying..
OH for God's sake we all lie...
This is just a splitting hair divergence tactic on his part...

therapist it is like this..
for years I relied on and believed in my husband so that when I was upset or needed someone to talk to ..I was always able to turn to him and talk about my hurts and joys...but lately he as decided that he is not interested in being my friend so I naturally am now reaching out to others...
while i would much rather reach out to him..
he isn't very available these days...
bat eyes...
look out window.
yawn...
smile real big...

ark

Hm, I get the impression you have done this type of thing before! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, I will do the best side-step I can. I feel so strange protecting myself and my boys from the person I have viewed as our greatest protector for 15 years.

I feel like I am in an episode of the Twilight Zone. This is the second TZ experience of my life. The first was when I was about 14 or 15, with my mom's 4th husband. My goal was to never have another.

Somehow, I find myself here again. It's a mindbender, for sure! Laugh or cry! Laugh or cry!

I'll let you all know if I am going to Plan B this week, after my MT and IC appointments today.

I posted another thread on the Plan B subject. Give me your 2 cents, please.

Chat at you later. Amy

Amy,

As long as your H is willing to go to the counselor or if he changes his mind about NC...I say you delay Plan B. But I would still like you to be ready.

If you cannot sidestep a direct question about exposure...all you need to say is: that you did NOT tell the scoutmaster....but it's unreasonable to expect you to remain silent when you are hurting so badly and need the support of others, and that you are certain that eventually the truth will be come out...it always does. If H is so adamant that no one know...perhaps he might need to examine why? If he's ashamed of people knowing....that's a good indication that he doesn't feel good about his actions. He has his "friend"...you also have friends that you expect you will confide in.

you know what amy ..
now I am getting pissed...

You go in there..

you be strong and you be confident...
not emotional...not wishy washy...

you give proof and notice now that you are not going to continue much longer this path of chaos no matter how hard he tries to drag you down that road...

that is he that needs to take notice that time is at hand that he will soon be the one deciding to plug back in...or be left in the dust..

you stand your ground that no matter what...
even the therapists jibes that your not always doing best for your kids at all times... (no one does)

that WHATEVER it is that is not 'perfect" it is damn better than believing that exposing them night after night to daddies new exgirlfriend who doesn't even want him anymore....is a good thing at all...


you take a deep breath.
you rattle his chain a little...

do not cave
do not give in
do not appear weak....

you give that man a little scare today...
because he needs it...

ARK

I have arrived at the place you are speaking of. You have described my thoughts exactly. He does need to get on board. Or be left in the dust.

I am strong. I am brave. I am going to be OK no matter what. I detest having contact with this abomination that was once my DH. And he is pissing me off.

I will do us proud today, ARK. He will see my steely resolve, and know that this is one battle I will fight to the death - his death. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be expecting an encouraging reply later today.

Amy

Good luck today Amy. I will check back to see how it went.

hugs

Well, it went horribly. He hates me, says he can never trust me again. Has lost all faith in me.

I expect D soon. Very ugly and nasty. But I "won." My boys will be in another Troop. Well, supposedly. He might find more gumption, but I did threaten to expose him if he didn't do it voluntarily.

So, who knows. Definately going to Plan B. I will write the letter, but I don't think I have to worry about him contacting me for anything for several months. Never seen him this angry.

But, like I think Sufdb said in a post I read yesterday, intense emotions cannot be maintained without fuel. And I am taking his fuel away after this battle. He will get no more from me, either way.

So, ARK, what do you think? He stormed out of MT. Said it was over. Said he hated me.

MT said I screwed up making a unilateral decision and everything I had gained I lost, plus more. I felt bad about that and cried. But on the way home, I felt very peaceful.

I am at peace with what I have done, what I have stood up for and why I stood up for it. I think that no matter what, my firm stance on the issue was going to piss him off. I think I just saved us more counseling sessions until we got to this point, I guess.

I don't think this is something he is ready to do voluntarily yet. The MT thought it was the right thing to do, not healthy for the boys. But she didn't agree with how I did it. I don't think it matters how I did it. My results would be the same. Which is why I have been putting it off.

So, I might regret it when he serves me and the financial matters settle in, but I will get through that, as well. I think I need to start looking for a full-time job. My poor boys.

Oh well. I, for one, know that life is not fair. Sometimes, it sucks. I know that after this whole thing, I will appreciate happy times in my life much more. And my boys will too. Hopefully, they still get the best of their dad.

So now we are putting MB to the test. I know nothing is fool-proof (thank goodness, since my WH is acting such a fool right now, and I am too), but I threw my lot in here, rather than the MT way. Maybe I shouldn't have.

But I didn't know her gameplan. At least here, I have my own gameplan. I feel like I have some control, instead of just WH.

I go to my IC in about an hour. I wonder if WH is at OW's house, crying, right now. I bet he is. I wonder what she will say to him. If she was honest with him, because I know her (ex "best friend," and all), she would tell him that she would have done the same thing. As a mother and a woman.

BUT, she has yet to really do the right thing with regards to him, so I doubt it. I think this is something I will have to wait out.

I wonder if he will retaliate against me. I really expected him to be here when I got home, revenging against me. I don't recall ever seeing him so angry. Scary.

I'll keep you posted. Amy

Amy, You will be ok. Just calm down. You will be ok. Big Hug.

hugs for you {{{{{{{{{amymaree}}}}}}}

You are SO much stronger than I am. I am blowing Plan B (haven't actually SEEN WH yet, but have spoken with him several times). I have got to do better.

I feel that TZ thing, too. I just keep trying to wake up. I've been there 12 yrs ago with him and another A. It went on 18 months, but was NOT this difficult or this involved. I'm thinking rubber room for me right now, so you're worlds ahead of me in strength.

Keep it up. Good for you, and inspiration for the rest of us. And it's not over until it's over.