Nid,

I love the Waffle King analogy.
Don't give up. Stay strong and continue your Plan A right up to the moment that you hand him the Plan B letter. Do not break down! Leave the room for a few minutes to gather yourself. He can't handle your emotions right now. I had to leave the room many times and I let him know that I would be back when I could talk about things.

My H told me that he didn't love me, that he thought of me as a friend, that we could never recover from our past, he saw no hope because too much had happened, etc......He was fluent in "foglatin"(thanks WAT). It appears your H is also. You can't be reactive. If you are in Plan A, stay in plan A until you decided otherwise. Reread SAA until you have in memorized.
You've gotten to great advice and support, come here and vent then when you interact with your H, only let him see the loving stable wife.
He just got back into town and the "reality" of his life. Give him some time.

cleo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hasn't his gone on for a bit longer than your's did?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes 4give, mine was over (NC)after 2 (he says 3) months. My H's has gone on since last April, so its going on a year.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I feel everything he did is deliberately to let me hate him so I can file for D. I don't know what to do. If I go for Plan B, that is what he wants. Is that the right thing to do? He lies and lies. He just disappear without any trace. I hate him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so sorry Lostnhurt. I know. They seem to want to not put the decision on themselves, but force you to do it. I will not be the one who quits. But how long do you live with the lies. Is your H still living with you?

Here's what happened last night. We were talking, he started asking about my MB friends and what they tell me, what do they say about him, etc. I don't want to hide anything from him so I did give him bits and pieces. He said for him, he couldn't take advice from people he knows nothing about, how do I know who they really are? Then around 1:00 am, the cat starts making these ungodly noises and wakes me up. So I got up to see what was wrong and discover that my H is not in his office. I went to the kitchen to find that the phone was gone, so lo and behold I open the garage door and there he is and I hear "click". He was talking to OW.

I ran to my room crying. I'll be back, I've got to go to a meeting.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

Ok, Nid, I think you should give him the Plan B now and propel him to move out. The reason is this: it would send a huge wake up call that you are in control here and will no longer live with the affair being rubbed in your nose every day.

If you wait around for him to move, he will only continue to torture you daily while rubbing your nose in the affair all from the comforts of him. What a lovely set up for him!

How much longer can you live with him sneaking out into the garage to call the OW in your OWN HOME? He is basically conducting an affair from the comforts of YOUR home.

Having to move would be a huge wake up call for him and protect you in the bargain.

I also think you absolutely need to expose this affair to the board and all your friends. It probably would have ended long ago had you not helped protect their secret.

Nid, going through this hell daily for months on end has to be hell on you and your son and SERVES NO productive purpose. You are volunteering to live at the mercy of a very mixed up man.

Please take charge of the situation here instead of living in a constant state of REACTION to a confused crazy man. You are making yourself sick and crazy by living like this and wearing down your ability to even make rational decisions. Since he is on leave from his senses, it falls to you to protect your family and move this horrible situation forward in a POSITIVE direction.

Take charge, Nid. Don't live at the whim of a very confused, mixed up man.

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I am still trying to figure this out, but I have noticed that often when he is away from you, he behaves as if he really misses you. But when he comes back, he is drawn back to the OW once he assured you are there for him.

If this is the case, then this would bode very well for Plan B because he would miss you terribly in Plan B as he is free to discover that OW can't possibly meet all his needs. A relationship that is based on deceit and fraud is doomed to failure.

I think you have a powerful tool in your hands, if you will just calm down and use it, Nina.

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Nid,

I'd like to use quotes as you do but I don't know how.

Anyway, I can see what he is doing. He is blaming you and you feel like you have to constantly defend yourself. He's coming up with all sorts of excuses to justify his affair to himself. It is all a bunch of b...s...! Don't keep falling for it and try to keep yourself from reacting.

There were times when I had to admit that I was wrong or that I just did not have to be right all the time. That was one of the things I had to face when I had to move beyond the victim stage and accept my part in our pre-A marital condition. I had to face what parts of me did need to be worked on. I had to understand what OW gave my H that I didn't, and see where I could make adjustments in my own behavior and attitudes. I believe that you have been working on yours too...your H may not have had a chance to see that your changes will last or are real. Or, he wants to not believe they are so he can still justify his actions.

I also had to realize that lots of guilt my H placed on me was to relieve himself of his own guilt; his own justification.

I suspect your H likes the pedestal that OW places him on. Her attentions have built his ego back up after feeling rather low after your A (5 yrs ago!). It didn't help that he never really recovered from it or forgave you. She listens to and respects him. Well, you've already expressed the positive attributes that OW has offered to your H. Don't demean yourself because of it. Keep working on you and realize that your are going to survive this and in time your H will probably realize that he does in fact love you. That you are special to him and the wife he needs...the mother of his only child. He is still trying to convince himself that he doesn't.

Last night he confirmed to you what we have all been suspecting: that he continues to lie to you about the OW. He's enjoying the power of keeping you crazy. Oh, he doesn't want to hurt you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ....at this point he is too foggy and addicted to understand what he is doing to you or how yucky his behavior has been. He is a liar and a cheat. Face it.

Mel is right that you should probably go to an immediate plan B. Let him face his choices head on. Right now OW is his angel...Miss Perfect. They are just biding their time waiting for her divorce and custody to be decided or final. He is protecting her when he lies to you. Was OW a victim of abuse or such an awful marriage that your H is having to resue her? Oh, maybe he is telling you the truth that he knows that OW isn't for him...who call's -just a friend- in the middle of the night? Well, is he just using her?

Does he ever look at OW as an unfaithful wife? So he's trading you in for a woman who may very well do the same to him someday? What kind of character does she really have? What kind of character does he really have...he who so harshly judged your behavior and is guilty of the same or worse. It is in his best interest to keep you believing that theirs is -only- an EA.

Don't let him make you crazy.

You have a right to whatever support you need to help you with this crap he is throwing your way.

Let the OW have a chance to LB. It could take some time. Get a hold of yourself. I know it goes against how you feel. If you could only see that he is playing with your mind to stay in control of the situation. Don't let him anymore.

Believe that you will survive and thrive without him. It doesn't have to mean that you are giving up hope of reconciliation at some point. Preserve your love.

I know Melody. Let me finsish what happened.

He came into the room after me ans said "Don't be mad. Let me explain. He said I called her because I needed to give her some blah, blah, blah. It was nothing personal. Here, I'll swear on the Bible, it was nothing more than that, no R talk. I was numb. I stared off into space and just listen to him say it was nothing. I told him he called her because he WANTED to talk to her no other reason was good enough to call someone at that hour. And if it wasn't personal then why the h*** is he sneaking into the garage. He said, you know why. You can't take it. Then he asked me why wasn't I blowing up. Why don't I hate him? I was numb. I left and went to sleep on the couch, only I couldn't sleep. I sat and I cried. I thought he had fallen asleep, which infuriated me more to know that he didn't care how hurt I was. So then I thought I'd call OW. She picked up and I told her "STAY THE F*** AWAY FROM MY H!!!!" She said, "Nid, nid, I didn't call him, he called me!" I told her I knew that, but she also told me that she wouldn't pick up the phone if he called her. She said she was worried something was wrong so she picked up. I told her my family's well being was none of her concern. She said, I know, I understand, I am truly sorry. She said, Nid, Let me tell you the past three weeks have been really good(because he hasn't been calling her), and I've been happy to be out of the middle of this. I said, then why don't you tell him that? By this time my H had come in the room and was saying, "what are you doing?!!"
I told him to get out. He stood there and listened to OW and I talk (or me cry). OW said she doesn't want to deal with this anymore and wants him to stop calling her. I told her she needed to tell him. She said give him the phone. He wouldn't say anything to her, so I told her he didn't want to hear it. She said tell him I want to talk to him. I did. He told her, "I apologize for this (me calling her) and I heard him saying. Okay, I know, I was just calling because. . .I know. . . I shouldn't have. Okay. I'm going to let you go to bed now."

He was fuming mad at me slammed the door, knocked things down in the process, slammed the bedroom door etc., and went to bed.

I laid on the couch and cried. I had blown it again. I couldn't sleep. By this time it was 3:00am. My H was in bed asleep. I went to my bed because I was afraid I wouldn't hear the alarm in the am. I just laid on top of the covers and pulled a blanket over my head. My H woke up, pulled the blanket off of my head, and pulled me close to him. He said he was sorry. I said I was too.

I'm so confused. I know what I need to do. He needs to decide to move out and I will go to plan B. But what if he stays? What do I do? How do I go on?

Okay, so if your are to believe the OW, your H is a pathetic, love sick puppy calling her in the middle of the night to discuss what, LL? He is the one pursuing her and it is all one sided?

If she isn't lying then he is pretty pathetic. It would serve you well to look like you will move on without him. Who calls someone during the middle of the night? (Remember, she isn't beyond lying to you too.)

I made several calls like that to the OW. I don't think I did when I was letting him go to be with her full time. The OW in my case lied to me to my face and I slapped her. Yes, I know that was awful of me...but it felt pretty good and 'justified' at the time. She (thankfully) didn't press charges. I was allowing the situation to make me appear the crazy one. I was a pretty easy target to be made a fool out of. Don't be a fool yourself.

Maybe I shouldn't keep relating your situation to mine. Each situation is unique although so many seem so similar.

I liked what WAT said, especially his last couple of paragraphs.

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: 4give ]</small>

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

Oh my nid!

First off, Xanax is an anti-anxiety drug. Antidepressants do not have the same pharmacological action as Xanax. Therefore, they will not make you feel anything like the way Xanax makes you feel. Honestly you don't "feel" anything different with the SSRI' except in more emotional control. It stops the extreme lows of this rollercoaster ride. Now, most SSRI's will leave you with some degree of inorgasmia, but do you really think you should continue having sex with your H lying at every turn? I think you should really reconsider anti-Ds.

Your H is such the "classic" WS. You cannot believe anything that he or OW says. You are fooling yourself if you do. My H used the "we can't communicate" strategy over and over. So how do communication problems get fixed? With a good MC that's how. WAT is right, just agree with him and tell him you will consider his concerns and that you want him to be happy. He's baiting the hook and your chomping down on it hook, line and sinker. He's realing you in nid. Are you gonna let him gut you, fry you up and swallow you too? Enough is enough. There is no reason to continue plan A, for it is accomplishing nothing more at this point than to reward his bad marital behavior. If he doesn't want to move out, I'd file for a legal separation and physical custody of your son and move out myself. Your boy is big enough to say where he wants to live(guess who he'll pick?, so no worries, right?)). I'd tell him he could see him whenever he wanted and let the courts decide the rest. If you really want to save this marriage, it's time to stop agreeing to share your H with OW.

Come on nid, suck it up and tough it out. It's time to get angry, of course you keep that to yourself. He's disrespecting you to the inth degree. You can't build a healthy marriage with him believing he can maniulate your deepest emotions and lie to you. If he stays, out of pity or guilt, your marriage will never be healthy. Is that the kind of marriage you want? Fear,is NOT of God nid, it's the enemy trying to destroy another marriage and family, something God loves deeply. Have you read Dobson's Love Must be Tough, yet?

Praying for you, son and H. Keep your eyes on Jesus.

OW is not going to bow out gracefully. Can you see that nid?

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you talked to OWH? These 2 need to be attacked from both sides.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We did talk quite a bit up until a few weeks ago. Now he won't return my calls. I don't know what thats all about except that maybe his W is ticked off that he talks to me about what he knows. He said she is very controlling so maybe she is doing that to him right now, maybe threatening him by taking away his boys or something. I don't know. Maybe I'll try him again. Their divorce is in progress now.

Nid,

I think last night brings everything to a head for you. The only thing that could top this off is to expose them.
He's not sorry and is still very deceitful. Her email only reationalizes why she must continue to talk to him. The only thing she is sorry about is that you confronted her.
Don't listen to the crap your H is handing you about your inability to communicate and laying the blame on you. It's all an attmept to deflect blame.
I, now, agree that you should hand him the Plan B letter, otherwise he will continue to contact her and apologize to you.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

Nid,

I have never posted to you, but have followed your story for awhile. What I write is from my own experience.

DO NOT TELL HIM ABOUT THE EMAIL! That will only give them something else to discuss - another reason for contact. Plus anything they say at this time is usually a lie anyway.

I was such an idiot during my husband's affair. I didn't tell anyone else and discussed every little thing I was feeling with my husband. I told him every word the OW told me and anything his coworkers told me. He always had a reason or excuse and the OW looked me straight in the eye and told me that my H just wasn't her type. They became quite a team. My husband and I do have a recovered marriage now, but it is only by the grace of God.

Right now, you really can't believe a word that they say. I know how alone you feel, but share your feelings with this forum. Let your H see your strength. I'm praying for you Nid.

Thank you Songbird. I appreciate your advice and support.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

I wouldn't return his calls..let him sweat a little. If he asks why you didn't return them...just smile sweetly tell sorry you were busy.

Nid, your H is giving you good signs...hard to believe from where you sit now...but I see them as good signs.

Unfortunately, he is cake eating and fence walking...he pushes you away...then gets scared and pulls you back. This can't go on forever...

I think you need to give him some choices...NC-Period...MC and IC (both of you) or PLAN B...make it clear which you want but make it clear also that neither of you can live like this forever.

I think your H is even more confused then you...I don't think he's conciously/intentionally sending you all these mixed messages...he is genuinely confused himself.

My H would have waffled like yours if I would have let him...we was also confused...I just refused to put up with it...he needed to chose...if he chose me, then he needed to give it his all. I would do the same...if it didn't work out at least we gave it our all.

That's all he needed...he needed me to take charge...he needed me to come up with the plan. After a short period of time he started pulling his weight and then at times he pulls more then his weight.