Hi Nid...sorry I misunderstood I thought you said your H told your S that he was moving out..I missed the might part.

We have 5 children..ranging at time of dday from 4-21. They each reacted differently..4 yr old was quite up front..he told his dad to stop lying and that he was M to mommy so he wasn't allowed to kiss Ms.(OW) (dday came about because 4 yr old saw OW kiss my H). He told him to stop making his mommy cry or he wasn't going to be his friend anymore...gotta love those kids!!

One daughter stayed mostly neutral..she just said she thought what he did was wrong but that he's a good guy and will come around. She also told me that I shouldn't treat him teh way I did understress. One daughter couldn't talk about it except to cry. One daughter told her dad that she was very disappointed in him, that he wasn't following all the values he'd preached all the years and that no matter what I didn't deserve this. The 10 year old son was mostly oblivious.

For a few months life around our house was very traumatic. At one point two of my daughters cornered me and said that if I continued to tolerate his lying then they would lose respect for me...since I had always raised them to be strong women and not take any crap from anyone.

We both had to sit down with the oldest ones a couple of times and explain that no..dad wasn't abandoning his morals that he was going to do the right thing and make it up to all of us. That he was sorry that after dday that he was still keeping some secrets from me and that he knew it was making me lose my mind and that he would do better (he did!). They also cleared up part of his fantasy while in the A...they told him they would never have accepted the OW!!

I told them that I unfortunately was learning to not be so quick to judge now that this happened to me and that if he hadn't have broken off his inappropriate "friendship" (they only knew EA with some light making out) that I would have left him. That yes he was still keeping some things from me and had left some things out but that he was working on it. That I felt he was still a really good man who had made a horrible mistake adn that a mistake doesn't define a person it's what they learn from the mistake and how they rectify the mistake.

Now long story short...my kids see their parents who always had a good M (not perfect but good) who used to take each other for granted..now have an AWESOME marriage. They see two people who worked hard to improve themselves, their M, their parenting abilities, who restructured their whole lives, who love each other dearly, who spend all their spare time together or with their family, who are equal teammates, etc. They are very proud of us.

To you and WAT..if your H was waffling like this but had ended the A for sure...maybe I'd think your Plan A approach was solid...however, from all that you've written I would lay odds that it hasn't ended, unfortunately from experience (H professed for long time to only EA) that the A is a PA. If the A is going on still, not sure that Plan A without boundaries will work.

I wouldn't wait until he moves out to hire the PI..I'd want to know now.

My H knew that I was ready to hire a PI shortly before dday and that and my son seeing OW kiss him led to his dday confession. At that point I made it clear that I would be on teh two of them like "white on rice"! I would hire a PI if my gut's warning bell's went off, he knew I was monitoring calls, emails, credit card bills, checking account and that I followed him on occasion and that I was watching OW. I really felt this was necessary until he was out of fog!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At that point I made it clear that I would be on teh two of them like "white on rice"! I would hire a PI if my gut's warning bell's went off, he knew I was monitoring calls, emails, credit card bills, checking account and that I followed him on occasion and that I was watching OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forever, my H knows I am monitoring everything and he says he understands why and its okay, it doesn't make him angry. He doesn't know that I will hire a PI to find out for sure.

He asked me this morning what was wrong because I seemed a little down. I told him that I feel a little vulnerable because I told him how I monitor the phone last night. He said, "Oh, and do you feel stupid for doing that, too?" I said, "Yeah, a little." He said, "Nid, please know that I will not betray your trust anymore. And thank you for telling me about it. I know it was hard. I WILL NOT HURT YOU ANYMORE, okay?" He kissed me sweetly, said "bye, babe" and went off to work. He's not afraid to show me his love anymore. Is that a good sign? Or am I being a fool?

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Nid in the beginning of recovery...my H would look me dead in the eyes and swear he was telling me the truth..no blinking, no flinching, nothing. I've been M to this man for 20 years, no him inside and out and I still couldn't tell by looking at him that he was lying...I just had to rely on my gut and logic. He would also hold me in his arms and apologize for hurting me, told me I could trust him, he'd never gamble with me or his family again...all LIES.

Only when I would verify and check out everything he said and forced him to take a polygraph did he finally confess everything and stop lying and withholding information!

Why did he lie..you can ask him on his thread but the answered varied a little depending on where we were in recovery..in beginning he lied because he didn't think I could handle the truth, thought I'd leave or kill him. He also lied because he didn't want to face the hurt that the truth would cause, didn't want to face truth himself, because he was scared, etc. It took awhile for me to convince him that the lies were killing me, not the truth..truth was hard but I was handling it.

He knew all along that he needed to tell me the truth but took him awhile to make himself. For him to believe that not telling me was going to be worse.

WS are skilled liars...the believe their survival depends on their lies.

One question, if he moves out this month, how do I plan B if he and I will be at all of my S's BB games? I refuse to give up watching my S, not to mention that my S would be crushed if I wasn't there.

My H mentioned last night that since he said he was going to move out, that he needs to follow through with it. I asked, "Do you feel like you can't change your mind?" He said, "No, I know I can change my mind, but I know that my "waffling" hurts you."

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nid in the beginning of recovery...my H would look me dead in the eyes and swear he was telling me the truth..no blinking, no flinching, nothing. I've been M to this man for 20 years, no him inside and out and I still couldn't tell by looking at him that he was lying...I just had to rely on my gut and logic. He would also hold me in his arms and apologize for hurting me, told me I could trust him, he'd never gamble with me or his family again...all LIES.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forever, I truly believe I can tell the difference. I've seen him lie, I've seen the look when I know he doesn't care, I've seen the look when I know he doesn't feel love. Now, I am seeing something different. There is a softness there, a look of care and love. Is he still confused? Yes, he is.

Nid,

I think you're on the right track with your gut instincts. Trust in your own instincts is one of the first things to go when you uncover an affair; and one of the hardest things to get back.

Wat and the others may be right about him still being in contact with the OW; especially with her being so brazen to approach your friend right next to you at the games.

Personally I think you are doing a great Plan A; all the cuddling, snuggling and special time you share are well worth it. Giving him the option to not move out at the end of the month is smart too. Therefore if he does go; he won't later be able to say "you made him".

If he does stay will he be willing to do MC? I know Steve Harley would be able to help you tremendously. I know it's alot of $$$, but in the end my H and I felt we probably saved $$$ because with his level of expertise it is astonishing how relevant SH's coaching is.

It felt as though SH had been in our house, for how well he understood the situation right away.

Even if your H doesn't want to coach with SH now, SH would give YOU specific instructions on what to do right now...today. And I think that is money much better spent than on a PI.

Regarding Plan B and your son's games. I think it's vital for you to go to the games to support your son. The only reason not to go would be if it became too painful for you.

But as usual this is just my own opinion. Blessings, CSue

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Ditto what Mel said.

If he wasn't afraid to show his love he'd be sending a NC letter.

My guess is he shmoozed you on the phone thing. Bet you never see that # on the redial anymore. He doesn't even need to use a cell with those tracfones on the market in every store these days.If OW was not feeling sure of herself, she wouldn't be flaunting herself around. She's rubbing your nose in it nid. Be careful.

Nid,
I can only give you my experience, but I wanted to believe my WH about not having contact, and he even really wanted it to be true, but it wasn't. He lied over and over again for months, years even. He still basically says "just trust me" and that is what your H is doing to you. He isn't backing anything up, is he? Please remain guarded. I personally feel it is too soon for everything to have turned around. You are doing a good Plan A and that will help you if he doesn't take ACTION to end the A or if he leaves and you go to Plan B.

Hang in there, but words are just words, sweetie, even though you desperately want to believe them. Take care.

Nid how are you this morning?

I hope for your sake you are right about being able to tell when your H is telling the truth.

After over 20 years with my H I thought I could tell too but unfortunately he mastered lying with a straight, caring, open..look me in the eye method.

I'm with the others if he was telling the truth he wouldn't be setting traps to see if you are still checking up with him, he wouldn't still be calling her, he wouldn't still be playing the push you away draw you back in game, etc.

I would bet good money that he is still involved with the OW.

Someone asked why hire a PI unless you are trying to get divorce proof. In my case I didn't do all the spying to get proof for divorce, I got it to confront him with unrefutable proof that he couldn't deny. I felt that only when all cards were on table all lies unmasked, could we truly work on recovery. I wanted him to feel that it was useless to continue to lie, that I would just keep finding out. Again in our case it worked.

Early in our recovery the only time we made good progress was when he was backed into a corner. Then being the good man that he was (deep down inside) he would then do the right thing.

I realize each person is different but you H sounds so much like mine did. A good guy who made a horrible mistake and is so deep in fog land he can't make the right choices on his own.

That's why I keep advising you to be strong, set boundaries, enforce them, be loving when you can, be tough when you need to...that combination worked very well with my H.

Anyway...please let us know how you are today.

Forever, I know you are the strong wife. You H admires you so much. You are giving good advice here. Please tell me if I am doing the right thing. My WH pretty much doing and saying the same as Nid's. Sometimes I am very desperated. Sometimes I can let go. This rollercoaster is no fun.

Nid, hang in there. We are riding this together.

Thanks everyone. I really need to get this thread deleted. My H wants to read it and I'm just not comfortable with that.

He looked at apts. yesterday. After we had a great weekend. Go figure. He wants to move out and for us to work on our R. He doesn't seem to understand how painful that will be for me. Should I be able to be positive about this, to act like his friend as he leaves me and our S to "figure things" out?

I feel like I'm more confused than ever. I told him last night if he moves out, I'm scared that I won't want him back. I told him I can't just pretend that everything is peachy king. Should I do that?

He's killing me with his affection right now because it makes me so aware of what I will be without when he is gone. I feel like I'm shutting down now.

nid - you're still falling into the trap of trying to make sense out of all this. It doesn't make sense. It won't make sense no matter how hard you try. You're driving yourself nuts trying to logic thru this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
<strong>Should I be able to be positive about this, to act like his friend as he leaves me and our S to "figure things" out? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We know it's very difficult, but you have to try to maintain a good Plan A until it's time to switch.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I told him last night if he moves out, I'm scared that I won't want him back. I told him I can't just pretend that everything is peachy king. Should I do that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything is NOT peachy. Don't pretend that it is. Just don't LB, have angry outbursts, or make disrespectful judgements.

I would encourage him to read on this site. In fact, print out or paste this reply from me into a separate document for him:

Mr. nid - I don't believe for a moment that you're planning to move out to "figure things out." You're moving out to be with your affair partner. If I'm wrong, reply back to me and convince me I'm wrong, but I won't be convinced until you completely sever your relationship with the other woman. What you're doing to your wife and son is the cruelest act imaginable of a husband and father. If you are a man you'll stop right now and give your family the devotion they deserve. But if you're selfish and do not care about your wife, your son, your dignity, and the future of all involved with this mess, move out today and chase your fantasy. Why wait?

I forgot to mention, WAT, that my H registered on MB lastnight. He didn't post anything, but he wanted to read my thread. I really didn't want him to so I'm trying to get it deleted. Can you email MBMagnolia again. I couldn't figure out how to email her.

I printed what you said to my H. I think he'll be steaming mad. I really wish he would post here and give his side.

Why are you concerned with him reading this? Radical honesty goes both ways? Why are you so concerned with making him angry?

Let him register and share his side...we try to help both WS and BS. Thank goodness lots of people on the recovery board took the time to help by H as well.

I would let him read this and all the advise you've gotten...maybe something will actually get through to him (even if it happens through initial angry reaction)...that's what we want to happen with our WS's "LIGT BULB" moments.

Maybe he should see how everyone is advising you to Plan B him, maybe he should see how bad all this had made you feel.

Our MC was very clear that we are all entitled to our feelings, noone should judge us for them or hold them against us. All you've done in this thread is express your thoughts/feelings and beg for help to save your M. Why would he hold that against you??

It's obvious he loves you but he is going to test your boundaries to the limit!!! My H did this as well. Just like kids once he saw what my boundaries were he started coming around.

To e-mail the moderators, click on their names located at the top of the GQII page. They may be reluctant to do so again.

You can edit out your own posts if you feel the need.

It's always good to hear both sides of a crisis. I'll be watching to see if he's man enough to post to me. If he is, he'll get the same respect everyone else gets here and a 2X4 in the head if he needs it - just like everybody else. None of us are perfect and we all need calibrating once in a while.

WAT