hw - I validate your emotions and confusion. Have you considered anti-depressants?

Please restate what you H has claimed of his ending the relationship with her. Did he do a verbal NC of sorts? Did he ask her to stay away from him?

If he did, and if you two get started on rebuilding, you may not need to constantly monitor the former OW. An affair relapse would be detectable by your H's behavior.

Also, please restate your H's comments on informing OW's H. If you're in real recovery and properly implementing radical honesty, you should not inform OW's H without your H's knowledge. This would be a HUGE LB. If he is truly done with her, he should not mind her H being informed - unless your H is afraid of him making a stink by launching the nuke.

WAT

KS -

I appreciate both of your posts. Your words are always very encouraging. I do not feel like a good mother right now though. My kids are my world and I do everything for them. Today is my baby's 2nd birthday. I am a little sad remembering when she was born - H was going to war and remembering her birthday last year - H was going back to war.

I look at those times and can't believe I can survive a war but this A almost killed me. I have 2 wonderful children and I almost let the depression and anger from this situation make me give all of that up.

I am going to pray on this and try to find a way to decide weather or not to tell her H. I think he needs to know but I'm worried about my H's reaction. I just hope that when I get the courage back up he answers the phone.

I want my life back. I want my baby's birthday to be a day of joy and happiness. I do not want this fluzzy to win. Right now I feel like she is winning. I'm letting her destroy my family.

I'm stronger then that! I've survived poverty and wars and a rough childhood! I'm a strong person! I'm a good person! I am a Christian! I've got a strong faith in God! I'm not going to let her win! I have got to lick this....I've got to find a way to get over this!

Heroswife: YOU are encouraging and an inspiration to us all. You have been so strong through all of this, but we all have our breaking point.

I know I would not have gone as long as you have without many major LBs!

Think on it, take your time. Do you think it has reached the point where the nightmare is coming to an end? If so, exposure may not be the best option. Please consider a fresh start though.

Sending my love

Ks -

I do want a fresh start. I really want to just get out of here. But I do not want leaving here to be the end of my M.

I have started doing some more digging this weekend and I have found out some very crazy details about OW. I do not think I will have to wait long on exposure. I'm almost positive she is going to hang herself with her own rope.

I can't give details here yet but I will keep you guys posted.

I see light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like my H is very sorry. I couldn't say that a few weeks ago. I am positive he loves me now. I couldn't say that a few weeks ago either.

I do not think I have been very strong throughout all of this. I feel like I am a wreck and a ticking time bomb. I feel like I am making him suffer because he is making me suffer.

I want to keep my family together. That's my goal. I want to make my kids feel safe and secure.

I want to pick up the phone right now and call OWH. I know I have to be prepared for the backlash of that. After Friday I do not think my M could stand another element added to this drama. I have to show him that I can forgive him. I have forgiven him. Now I need to focus on recovery.

I do not know where I am on the road to recovery...I can tell you that I wouldn't be here right now...in this chair...if it weren't for the people on this site.

I think my drive Friday night could have been my final drive.

I will not let her win. I will not let this attention starved fluzzy be the cause of ending my marriage.

I will stop being the martyr for this A and take control of my life and my marriage.

I just need to have faith in my own decisions and stop questioning everything I do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK....the exposure to the OWs H is not for vengence. I do not want to do it at all. But I do not want to be here for 2 years watching this crap by myself. I feel like if I'm going to stay here her H should know to put pressure for the A not to start back up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heroswife,

Under most circumstances I agree absolute NC is the way to go. As for meeting with OW and your H, I was suggesting this as a point for your H to consider since you are going to be putting a lot of faith on the line if you agree to stay at the post for two years. It seems the least he could do for you. I, like you, would be burned if she was waving at me and acting all nicey-nice. I would want my position made very clear on what I would and would not tolerate. Maybe that's just me, though.

I also agree you have a moral dilemma about telling OWs H. Consider this: perhaps their marriage might even be saved if he learns of the affair. Perhaps not. It is hard to tell. But she will probably be taken "off the prowl" when her husband finds out.

That having been said, though, if there is something on the horizon that could do the same without your involvement, I would strongly advise you wait and see. That would be the best of all situations. I will be praying that it will come through and you'll get all the benefits with none of the hassle!

Please don't worry about your kids right now. Just love them up like crazy and they'll take it in stride. Have a great birthday celebration and just have fun!

~ Snow

WAT -

I must have missed your last reply.

I'll address this statement now:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please restate what you H has claimed of his ending the relationship with her. Did he do a verbal NC of sorts? Did he ask her to stay away from him?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DDay was on a Friday. We had a terrible weekend as you can imagine. That Monday I asked him to call her and tell her that I knew and it was over. I also told him that I would speak with her at my own free will. At that point he told me not to talk to her. I told him that I was grown and would do what I felt was best for me. I thought speaking to her was what I needed to do. I didn't call her right away. So that Monday I called him about 4 times asking him if he had called her yet. He kept saying no he hadn't called her yet. I forced him to make the call and told him to tell her that he was staying with me and that was had made a terrible mistake.

He finally called me around 4:00 in the afternoon and gave me a blow by blow of the conversation. He seemed very relieved at that point. He was almost excited to tell me about the call. That made me feel very good.

He basically told her that I knew and was devastated and that it was a terrible mistake. He apologized for any trouble the relationship had gotten her into. He told her about the ground rules I had laid out for us to move there (at that point it was 2 months away). She agreed to everything I set forth. She even told him that she wanted to talk to me and that she was very very very sorry and would do anything she could to make me feel comfortable in our move. She told him to tell me to call her anytime.

That night he called my mother to see if she would watch the girls for us. He has never in his life called my mother but that night he did. He took me to a tattoo shop and had my initials tattooed on his arm...something he said he would never ever do. (We both have tattoos...I know some of you are rolling your eyes at that. I am a professional business woman, mentor to college kids, coach and Christian...they aren't visible so please do not hit me with a 2x4 on that). He was so excited about getting the tattoo and he showed everyone that would look at it.

That was very reassuring for me. That was where our recovery should have started but it was only 3 days after DDay and I was just in shock.

As far as I know they had NC from that day until we moved here.

Mind you this was all prior to me finding this site and all of you.

OK...am I on medicine for depression? YES! Zoloft. I have been taking it since 3 days after DDay. I think I need something for anxiety though. That is killing me right now. I just go into panic moods and freak out. I convince myself that something is wrong and I am stupid for being here and I tell myself that he is with her at that very moment. The strange thing is....I can feel this coming on. It's like I get a notion of something and it starts to build until I feel out of control. I either get really really mad or I just cry and cry and cry.

Is that normal?

Snowbelle -

Some strange things are starting to happen here and I think today was my first clue that she realizes I am here to stay and I am making friends fast. After all I'm abosolutely adorable and extremely funny and very very sweet....not to mention humble (just kidding guys). I think my newest friend has hit pretty close to home and her behavior is just odd.

I think I'm going to hold off on the exposure for right now. I think he H is already on to one of her more recent A's.

My plan now is to be as sweet as one person can possibly be without making people sick. We have an outing towards the end of this month. I plan to make it known to her then that I didn't appreciate the whole horn honking situation and that she should avoid any contact with me at all costs. We'll be in a public place so I think I'll keep myself in check by knowing people are around. I can't say I'd be able to do that if we were somewhere alone.

I feel much stronger today. I am even in a good mood. Maybe it's because it's the baby's birthday. Maybe it's because the events of the day showed me some light at the end of this tunnel. Maybe it's because my H was very very sweet to me all day. I do not know why but I am thankful for it.

I know you all here are a huge part of me feeling as confident as I do right now. I can't thank you all enough for everything you have done for me.

I love you guys.

hw - all in all, I believe you have an excellent chance for recovery.

Just calm down and bite your tongue.

Caution - if not out right disdain - is usually recommended when relying on WS's accounts of conversations with OPs. The BS has to judge the sincerity in the context of other behaviors taking place at the time. Your H may be completely honest regarding his "this is over" conversation with OW and, she may be sincere in her apologies to you. You may have to hold your nose and buy this for now. The bottom line - is you H now treating you with respect and does he demonstrate devotion? If so, you may have to make a leap of faith, a gamble, and consider any continued, incidental contact as unavoidable and not a show stopper to recovery.

Zoloft worked very well for me. I also used adavan at the same time. Different meds work differently for different people and the proper doses may have to be detremined by trial and error.

I really believe you will pull through this. Both of you will have to move forward with trust and the expectation that you will recover. There will be set backs - don't wallow in self pity when you have a bad day. Look at your kids and work for them.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> is you H now treating you with respect and does he demonstrate devotion? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do believe he is treating me with respect and demonstrating devotion as best as he can. I won't say he's bringing me flowers and sending me messages of love throughout the day. I'd love for him to be that way but he's just not. I'll take credit for some of that. Throughout our relationship I have asked him not to send flowers because we were so poor for so long. It's never really meant much to me. Now I think I would like that just because of the way I am feeling now.

He calls me throughout the day. Several times as a matter of fact. He calls every chance he gets. He even calls on his way home. We chat a lot during that time. Usually about silly stuff and things of the day. That has been a great help.

Get this MBers! He actually opened on of the books last night. I went to bed and he was laying there with the book open. I was floored. Mind you he was watching television (American Chopper - so I forgive him for that) and he put the book away quickly but that was the first time he ever picked up one of the books without me putting it in his hands.

That gave me hope. That gave me an excellent chance to reinforce how much it meant to me to see him with the book. My entire attitude changed. I never mentioned the book. I just took a bath and crawled into bed with him. I made sure to reward his efforts. I think it made a big difference in the way I feel today.

Guys is this was it feels like to think you are starting recovery? Is what happened Friday night the actual turning point in all of this? Could this be more BS FOG for me? Am I imagining this and seeing what I want to see?

hw - I am hopeful that it's real. He's showing positive signs. Don't push and let him take his time. Fill those ENs.

I never experienced any recovery, so I cannot advise you from personal experience. But from what I've learned by communicating with others, you need a LOT of patience and for awhile - if it's real - you will still have to give a LOT more than you get.

No LBs!!!!

WAT

WAT -

I plan to keep giving and giving and giving. If there's one thing I've learned from all of this it's that I have to be the one to keep giving even though I may not see much in return. That has been one of the most frustrating things I've had to deal with.

I love my husband so much. I get down sometimes and I let my anger and sadness get the best of me. I might feel at times like I hate him and can't believe he did this to me...but I know that I want to spend the rest of my life with him.

I want to grow old with him and watch our grandchildren grow up with him. He's a good man. He really is a good man. I have trouble seeing that sometimes.

Today I feel better then I have since this all started. I hope this feeling does not go away anytime soon.

HW,

Glad to hear things are going better today... you'll have many days like this in the months ahead and some not so good. On the bad days, you have to remember the days like today, when you DID feel hope and love and all those good things. And nights like last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> will help carry you through, too! Store away these happy memories.

I'd say it sounds like you are in recovery. Just keep those eyes and ears open and meet his needs. I am so glad he picked up the book (I must admit American Chopper is a huge competition to overcome!!!). Perhaps as he reads, and you meet his needs, he'll start thinking more of yours. That's how it works.

I know you will be able to keep your cool in public around OW. She ain't got nothing on you, babe!!!! (I pity her, though, if she finds herself in a dark alley and you happen by!! LOL!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Enjoy the day!

~ Snow

<small>[ March 09, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]</small>

The entire concept of the dark alley does make me a little giddy....however I do hope that even then I would be reserved and calm. I have to admit that I would have to struggle really hard to keep my Alabama roots in check. There are somethings that you just can't keep inside.

Here's my theory...by me continuing to be a ray of sunshine (this is not fake sunshine...I'm usually very very chipper) I will display strength and honor to those around me. I think the way we act when we are down and out really reflects the kind of person we are at our core. I know I haven't had many sunshine moments in the past few months but I think the clouds are starting to part.

One other thing I realized. In forgiving my husband I have not really accomplished very much. Somewhere in the Bible it says that we must love our enemies, too. To forgive my husband, while he may seem like the enemy at times like this, is much much easier then it would be for me to forgive OW.

I think I need to do that. I think I need to forgive her....not sure I should just walk up to her and say I forgive you...but in my heart I need to forgive her.

I'm not ready to do that yet. I'd rather peel my fingernails back and stick them in a fire ant bed. But I realize this is something I have to do.

I think eventually I will be able to do that. I hope I can be a person that is big enough to do that. It will take a great deal of strength but I do not think it is too far out of my reach. Afterall, if you had asked me how I would have reacted to this situation 8 years ago I would have told you that I would stab myself in the forehead with a fork before I'd stay with a man that this something like this to his family.

That was before I had my girls. That was before the wars and before God came into my life. I'm a good person. I promise I'm a good person.

Originally posted by heroswife:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will display strength and honor to those around me. I think the way we act when we are down and out really reflects the kind of person we are at our core.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the truth. And you display stength and honor so well that I think we all know you are good to the core. Surely those around you in person have noticed, too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I need to do that (forgive OW). I think I need to forgive her....not sure I should just walk up to her and say I forgive you...but in my heart I need to forgive her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no doubt you will do this one day, HW, when you are ready.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope I can be a person that is big enough to do that. It will take a great deal of strength but I do not think it is too far out of my reach. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are a person who is big enough to do that already. It is not at all out of your reach. It just isn't time yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ......8 years ago I would have told you that I would stab myself in the forehead with a fork before I'd stay with a man that this something like this to his family.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How many times I myself made such utterances. I think we are stronger people having been through what we have. Not that we would have chosen this for ourselves, but now, as we survive this trial, it makes us stronger, more compassionate, and less likely to say "never" or "always."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm a good person. I promise I'm a good person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No promise necessary, HW. Your goodness glows all around you. You're going to be all right.

~ Snow

Wow! What a difference from last month! It does seem like you have turned a corner.

Don't feel bad about hating OW: you are perfectly entitled to. Sometimes it helps to feel smug with hate and revenge when these people get what they deserve. You ARE a good person. She isnt. Simple as that. Feel proud knowing you dont attempt to destroy peoples lives and the lives of their children. Maybe one day you will feel ready to forgive her, but dont force yourself to yet.

I am very interested in this dirt you have on her that you are being so cagey about. I think this may be why you have relaxed so much: you have realised she isnt getting away with what she has done. Thats your innate desire for revenge. Dont feel ashamed of that.

Personally I disagree with antidepressant medicines. I understand they may be helping you at the moment, but please try and come off them soon. After all, you have been up and down these past few weeks and they havnt prevented that. There are other, more healthy ways to boost your mood!

I think things are going to be fine with you! Hold your head up high when you see her at the outing, look at her and say to her in your head "You are nothing to me, and nothing to my husband. I have everything you want and you are so jealous of me. You are just a pathetic excuse for a woman." Make everyone there love you (shouldnt be hard) and you will emerge from this with a fantastic marriage with your pride still intact!

Good luck

KS and Snow -

You guys really make a difference to people like me. You may not realize it but you do.

Ks -

The dirt I have is just that dirt. It's everything I've ever thought about this woman. I see now that she has been this way for a very long time. I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't opened my eyes to something right in front of my face. Anyway, I've done some more digging. I can't say much much more but I can tell you that as soon as the poo hits the fan I will post it here.

I'm hesitant to say more then that on this board. I am still not very trusting. In my mind the fact that I sent this website to my H tells me that there might be a chance that she has been to this board and may know who I am. I doubt that seriously but I am not going to drop any clues here. I think the poo is very close to the fan blades now. I think she is sweating in her boots right now. I haven't done a thing either. I've just been myself. If you are a bright, good hearted, caring person people tend to migrate to you. I've had some people migrating my way lately. That's all I'm going to say.

I wish I could say more.

Say a prayer for my soul and a prayer for her's as well. She needs it more then me. I can sleep at night knowing that I am good through and through. I wonder how she sleeps.

Love you all.

*rubbing my hands together in anticipation*

There is light at the end of the tunnel and everything is going to be alright.

Sending lots of love

hw - I can sense your strengthening.

Please stay squarely atop the moral high ground. If there's "poo" to be slung, let it happen on its own. Don't lower yourself to the poo level.

I am confident for you, but keep that seat belt fastened on the 'coaster and keep your arms and legs inside the car. Sometimes these rides take another lap when you least expect them to. I don't think yours will, just be careful.

WAT

WAT and KS -

I totally see where you are coming from. I've been on this board long enough to read threads that are up and down and up and down. I've read posts that seem to come from very happy people but I know that happiness is short lived at times.

I won't say that I am at the peak yet. I do feel things are changing around here. I know those changes are in my favor. I feel stronger and I also feel my H sensing this change as well. He has started acting a little more supportive. Funny thing though, I'm wondering if he is being supportive because he is truly sorry and wanting to work this out or if he senses the poo very close to the fan as well.

OK...I won't think about that now I'll think about that tomorrow.

I can promise you that no poo will come from me. I do not think that will be required. My plan is to sit back and keep the poo off of me.

Here's another HEROSWIFE theory: When people are jumpy it usually means they aren't living right.

Now I know that is not some really indepth insight but if you think about it, it's true.

I'm going to remain very cautious and not take anything for granted. I've got my ear on the railroad track so I'll hear when the train is coming and be prepared. I am trying very hard to believe my H's efforts but I've been kicked in the butt enough to know that he can lie and he can hurt so I'm not sold on him yet. That will come in time.

Very wise, HW. You dont want people to have any possible notion that the poo came from you.

I hope your husband proves to you that you can trust him, and I hope that the events that are imminent bring you and him closer to recovery and not further away. I hope nothing happens to affect your family in the course of events.

At the same time, I hope she gets what she deserves. She definitely doesnt deserve the position she has.

I know you will be strong.