Ks -

The poo is not coming from me at all. I think she is starting to realize just how stupid she is and she's in a panic.

I do not care. I kind of like the thought of her squirming. I will say though that her reaction has clued me into something. I think she and my H are talking about what's going on. That is the only way to explain her reaction.

That has me worried a bit. It hit me this morning that the only way she would know to squirm is if my H told her about some of the things going on in our lives. This has made me start to think that contact continues and it's obviously not professional contact as my H would have me to believe.

I'm wondering do I sit back and let her hang herself or do I step in now and let it be known that I am not stupid and will not be played for a fool once again.

I feel very strong today. I feel like I am able to be more rational then I have been in months past. I think I can take anything thrown my way right now.

Above all, my main focus is my children and their well being. I love those girls. I take full responsibility for the way I have been acting lately. While my reactions have been based on a deep hurt brought on my the one person in this world that vowed to honor and protect me from harm....they were still my reactions. I have to live with what I've done lately. I can't blame anyone but myself for that.

SHE is the bad person in all this. Focus on that and stop beating yourself up.

Could you clarify a couple of things for us?
Did your H ever admit to PA? Do you still believe it was a PA?
What has he said recently about contact: has he admitted to having any with her?

Ks -

When I first busted him he just started crying. He said he was stupid. I never asked if he had slept with her. I just assumed and he didn't say "I didn't sleep with her." I do not remember the exact conversation but I remember talking about the A as an A not as a friendship.

The email that I found was very touchy feely but didn't say...I miss holding you or anything like that. It said "It's cold outside, I'd like to snuggle with you." I think about you all the time. I go to bed thinking about you. I wake up thinking about you. I'm glad you called me yesterday to tell me how you feel I want you to know I feel the same way about you. I'm not just saying that I really mean it. I haven't felt like this about anybody in as long as I can remember. He went on to say something about her not worrying about how he would act at work because he liked to be disciplined, ha ha ha (that was in the email). He even said "I bet you think you have your hands full now, huh?" He said he would try to link up with her on Monday (as in drive to the base where she was going to be) because he couldn't wait until January to see her again.

He sent this email to her on Monday. Two Fridays before this he had returned from a week long conference with her where he told me I couldn't go. He spent that entire week with her. There was one night when he didn't call me at all. THen he lied to me about where he was and I have confirmed that. That night is the night I believe he slept with her. If he did not sleep with her I know for a fact that there was physical activity going on because of the way he was in bed with me after that. I could just tell.

He sent this email on a monday. 5 hours before he sent this email he had sex with me. Now imagine how disgusted I felt reading the line about how he went to bed thinking about her and how he woke up thinking about her. He basically said he had sex with me while thinking of her.

The day after dday he told me that he never slept with her. I thought that was just odd. Why wouldn't he have said that on dday if it were true. I felt like he had talked to her and she told him to deny any sex because the ramifications would be worse for both of them if he admitted to having sex with her.

I do not believe he was not with her that week. I'm stake my life on it. That's how sure I am. He will never admit it though.

As far as contact goes now. He swears there is absolutely no contact except for work. After the way she has been reacting I think that is total BS. I want to call him out on it but I do not want to stir the pot anymore then it has already been stirred.

What do you think? If I can prove he is having social contact with her should I just call her flip'n husband and say...."tell you ho of a wife to get her damn paws off of my man or I will remove them from her body and promptly insert them in her colon."

Would that just be a huge LB?

Let me make one last note to the above post.

I really think she is on the verge of busting herself out. Whether she is having contact with my H or not she is very close to exposing herself.

I want to remain clean in all of this and just let it happen. In the same respect I don't know if I can sit back and let the 2 of them (if they are) have this relationship and think they are getting away with it.

Am I overreacting here?

I do not think you are overreacting. One of the worst feelings for me to deal with is how stupid I was, how signs were there and me..miss super smart professional women..didn't put all the pieces together. Being fooled, especially by your H and a OW are horrible feelings to deal with. I told myself that my gut had been right all along and for now on I am going to listen to it...doing this has been one of the keys to our recovery.

I had to listen and react to my "gut" when he was still too foggy or too much in denial to keep us safe...for awhile it was up to me.

I still believe that no matter what happens you should tell OWH....how do you feel that not telling keeps you "clean". Not telling would make me feel dirty...like I was in on the secret, like I allowed someone who may be feelings those same "gut" feelings to wonder if they were crazy...like I did for weeks. I wouldn't wish that on anyone else and wouldn't be part of that.

Sorry to preach...just a particularly sore subject for me...one of our close friends knew about the A and didn't tell me...that really hurt!!! Being ignorant of something so horrible is NOT bliss!!!

There is no way you are over-reacting!

I think you should ask him about any questions you have outstanding. If he challenges this or gets angry, calmly explain that he needs to answer your questions honestly whenever you ask them in order for trust to be rebuilt.

If he had nothing to hide he wouldnt hide anything.

What is your gut feeling? Do you believe the A is continuing from his behaviour both in and out of bed?

Also, is this 'work contact' purely professional? Does he onlyspeak to her when he absolutely has to (according to him)?

Sending my love

Forever -

I do want to tell OWH. I really want to for my own sanity. I think having him know would put pressure on her to avoid my H like the plague.

I am worried that in doing so I will cause more problems for myself. We seem to be on the road to recovery now. I do not want to do anything to derail that recovery. I need it more then anything else.

I do not think that by telling him I will be clean or dirty. I want to tell him for myself and for his sanity. I know they are having problems in their M right now.

I am just torn now because of the way my H is acting.

I honestly do not know what to do.

Ks -

I do not believe the A is still going on but I can't be for sure. Our SF is better now then it ever has been. I know that is not a sign of the A being over as I have learned from this board that SF is no indication. Many WS continue to have SF with their BS during the heat of the A. (I can't explain that at all.)

I do think they are having social interaction that is not specific to their job. I can just tell. I can't explain that but that is my gut feeling. She has started doing things that are out of the norm for her. There's no other way to explain that unless my H has been talking to her about me.

Does that make sense? Should I maybe call her? Wouldn't calling her H make my H very very angry with me?

What would you say to her if you called her?
What reason would your H have for being angry with you unless he A is continuing?

I think you should hold fire with OWH for the moment andsee if she hangs herself with her own rope. But if it isnt as imminent as you hope, maybe then you should tell him and put an end to all the waiting.

Hope you are feeling ok.

My opionion is that a recovery can't be going all that well if one is dictating to the other, if secrets are still out there. If you were truly in recover your H would encourage you to check up on him and wouldn't forbid you to contaxct OWH.

My H even in middle of fog land realized that I was entitled to my reaction to the A and entitled to do whatever I needed to do in order to recover. He didn't always like it but he didn't hold it against me.

If you can still love him, want to stay with him, want to recover after he had an A...why can't he still love you, stay with you and want to recover with you...if you check up on him and tell OWH????

In numerous posts here I believe that the concensus seems to be that the BS's gut is right most of the time, I'd hazard 80-90%...maybe what you suspect isn't exactly what's going on but something is.

Remember a WS is in a fog...temporarily insane...as unfair as it is...it's up to the BS in the beginning to be the "clear" thinker to do the right thing...not matter what the WS says.

What can it hurt to tell him??? Your H might be mad but would he really leave you over such a thing? If so what does that say about him and your recovery?

He needs to know that you are going to fight for your M with whatever means you have.

I did all sorts of things, exposed to OWH, my mom, H mom, OWH told him mom and OW's mom, threatened OW, checked his cell phone, followed him, etc...he didn't "like" any of it but after fog was cleared up he thanked me for fighting so hard for him.

hw - I don't think you have anything to gain by communicating with her.

On the other hand, you have lots to gain by informing her H. We can't see what you see - if it's likely that self-exposure is imminent, informing her H is moot. But many would argue that you have an obligation to inform him and you're already late in doing so.

As far as his past physical involvement with her is concerned - it happened. Just assume it. But this changes nothing except for YOUR emotions. Even if it hadn't happened, your mariage is still in need of an overhaul and your H still lied to you and betrayed your trust. The sex part is merely a formality.

WAT

What would I say....hmmm good question. I have this conversation in my head daily.

I think I would remain calm. I think I would just say, I get the feeling your relationship with my H appears to be going in the wrong direction. I realize you work with him and that you cannot avoid all contact with him but I have had some recent inclination that the communication you are having with my H are on a more personal level. I would then remind her not to cross that line. That she should take him off of her list of available men to have an A with. I'd probably drop a line about my ability to destroy her career if put in a situation where I felt her relationship was crossing any lines.

I think I might even address the horn honking incident. I would tell her to stay out of my way and not to think that she was in any place to honk her stupid horn at me. What a freak? That was a slap in the face for me. I wanted to turn my truck around and go straight to her house.

I feel fine today. Really I do. I think I was in a bit of a panic this morning when it hit me that she and my H has obviously had a personal conversation recently. I hate this stupid roller coaster ride.

I know WAT may disagree with me here but I think if you really you want to speak with OW then what you posted seems to me to be a very good way of warning her off. If your H still has some lingering fog, he is vulnerable to her.

What do you feel about the necessity to speak to OWH?

xxx

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you feel about the necessity to speak to OWH? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I need to. I go back and forth on this subject daily. One day I'm fine without telling him. The next day I feel like crap because of it. Then I have days where I feel like I have got to tell him so he'll put pressure on her to stay away from my H.

I think my H would worry that OWH would try to do something against his career. I think that is why he would be angry with me for telling OWH.

I still think it is wise to hang fire for a bit. Your situation is very different to most others' because the complete exposure of the A may have serious consequences for you and your children.

I think (although obviously I really know nothing) that it maybe quite possible that her H already knows about her As. How could he not? If he doesnt know he must at least strongly uspect. I doubt whatever you would say to him would be of a huge surprise.

Despite the conequences though, there comes a point where exposure must happen for the good of your marriage, if the A is continuing.

xxx

sorry accidentally posted twice

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: ks2001 ]</small>

Forever -

I see what you are saying. I know I have to go with my gut here. My gut tells me that he has a friendship with her and that the A is over.

My fear is that this friendship will soon build back up into another A. I want to stop that. I'm doing everythign I can at home to keep him happy but at the same time I am starting to stop giving him all of my attention. I do not think he likes that at all. I think he would rather have me at home all the time worshiping him. I'm not going to worship him now because he does not deserve to be worshiped.

So my gut says the A is over but there is a friendship. I will not stand for that for one minute. That is a slap in my face. I deserve better.

WAT -

I honestly think she will soon expose herself. I think I will hold off for a little while longer. I need exposure to her H and I need it soon. I can't stay here for 2 years and not tell him.

If this goes on any longer the effectiveness will be gone. Especially since now I do not believe anything is going on. I do sense a friendship though.

Tell me what you would do differently? All of you. What would you do in my situation? Would you leave? Would you tell OWH? If so, how? Would you go to the chain of command and demand a station change even if that meant my H might get discharged.

You must ask him straight out, to stop your wondering. You have a right to an honest answer without question!

Plan A is good, being a doormat is not.

xxx

I asked him just now.

I said my gut is telling me that you are having contact with her. I told him I had the right to now. He said "I'm just...." and then stopped. I know he was about to say I'm just tired of this.

I finished his statement for him. I said I know you are tired of this, so am I. I then begged him to please not talk to her on a personal level. He said "I'm not. I swear, I'm not." I could detect a tone in his voice. I told him not to get mad at me. He just said I have to go back to work....

I didn't say anything. He said "OK..." and I just hung up.

Then he sent me an email that said "you can not trust me all you want but don't get mad at me."