CV55

Breathe deeply. Smile at yourself in the mirror. Know that you are beautiful, and by far, the best choice for WH in the world.

Find a place in a lockable closet for your rawest emotions, and your fountain of anger and disguest, and lock up your emotions there.

When you are in WHubby's presence, shovel his LoveBank full, like it means nothing at all to you. Totally selfless, unabashed love (even if you have to act a bit! Wanna see my emmy?)

When he's not there, unlock the closet, and primal scream. Come here and vent like hell. Keep the R talks to occasional, and time them around the FOG as best possible. The rest of the time, be his best friend, find fun things to do and AVOID any LB's or DJ's.

You are on the right track. Be patient.

PS... go to search and type in your number, bringing all your first post up and read them. You'll be amazed at how far you've progressed. It worked for me, maybe it'll help you to.

Be strong, cuz you are the only one thinking clearly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
SD

SD, I don't know why, but every time I read something you say I start crying. Although the emmy comment got me laughing. I think it's because what you're asking me to do goes against everything I want to do now.

This week I hate H. I really do. Yesterday I went to his business to help him out. As I've mentioned he is a funeral director, so obviously it is a funeral home. Three weeks ago it hit me how that place has a sacred feel for me. Our families go back to our grandparents, although I didn't meet H until my 20s. All of my grandparents, my aunts, uncles, mom, and dad were in that funeral home. My therapist acknowledged that it's kind of like having sex in church. Yesterday, when I was upstairs where the offices are, I just could see them together. Partner would leave earlier than them, and he and OW had there home to relax in. The funeral home was home, with her greeting him every day. And home was work. He told me this morning he didn't feel like he belonged at home. With her he felt totally accepted.

Of course I brought to his attention that they weren't living in the real world. He said if the real world is so bad, why would you want to be there? Besides they were talking about each other's lives. I clarified by saying THEY didn't have to deal with death, dying parents, kids, responsibilities, etc. They were in their little bubble, showering each other with admiration and affection. Again, I'm thinking, are you a total idiot? I brought to his attention that last year was one of the most stressful periods of our lives. Her marriage meanwhile is headed for divorce. By the way, H can't even acknowledge that he was the OM. NO, he thinks he had nothing to do with the breakup of OWs marriage. The fact that he was an OM makes me sick. I asked him, given the circumstances they were both in, does he really think that is the beginning of a healthy relationship? FOG,FOG,FOG!

So this morning we talked about the A. He asked me what was on my mind. I told him I hated being at the funeral home now. I asked him if as soon as the partner left he and her would get together and begin making out. He told me yes. Meanwhile me, Ms. Chump, is totally lonely and incredibly sexually deprived for months. At least I know I don't have any STDs. Something to be grateful for.

He also acknowledged he'd kind of like me to have an A. Right now he can't even imagine that he'd feel bad about that. Although in the past he said if he thought about me having an A it would make him sick. Now apparently he doesn't care enough about me to feel anything. He said if I had an A he wouldn't feel so badly about himself.

OMG, I'll stop writing. I guess this is about forgiveness. Oddly enough, when I was in the worst pain, 4 to 8 weeks ago, I felt like I could forgive him and wanted to work on our marriage. Now I am having the opposite reaction. Is this normal? Forget about him loving me. Can I ever love him again?

Thanks SD, and anyone else who wants to jump in here. Hope you all aren't getting sick of my whining! CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> Comfortably Numb, thanks for your comments. Of course I hate that 3 years later you think of the wonderful feelings you experienced with OW. I am so pissed off that my H allowed himself to have those feelings towards someone else. Especially after we both managed to steer clear of infidelity for 19 yrs. of marriage, and 26 yrs. together. We are at a place in our lives where we could be having a good time, and he Fing screwed it up. Sorry. I am exceptionally aggravated tonight over this whole thing.

It is nice to hear you say that you realize the feelings were fleeting, and it is the high you miss. Did your A run its course? Or did you break it up while it was in the in-love stage? How long did it take you to get out of this god-awful withdrawal? Did you start feeling romantic love for your W again? Did she feel love for you again?

I guess since I'm not allowed to interrogate my H because of LBs, I've tranferred that over to you. Hope you don't mind. And yes, I really hope I feel peace again! Thanks! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CV:

I moved this conversation over to your thread. Feel free to ask me anything that you wish. I will respond with my version of the truth . . . even when I know it may suck to hear it.

Ok?

Let me try to explain something about my affair. I do sometimes think about the other woman, I also sometimes think about the girl that gave me my first kiss (it was in gym class, we were playing “bird-catcher”, she was the catcher and I was the bird, she caught me and kissed me, it was first grade). I am a brooding sort of fellow, I often sit and think. I think what matters is the nature of the internal dialogue, what the thoughts represent and what one ultimately does with any conclusion from the self-reflection. I can not control the stream on images that pass through my mind . . . I can’t change the fact that I have had these experiences, good and bad. All I can do is try to process the information and, if possible, learn something from it and move on to another stage of life.

You don’t have to apologize for being angry with your husband. Frankly he did a ****ty thing to the one person in life that he was supposed to respect and cherish. I would be a little concerned if you weren’t upset. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it is indifference.

My affair happened at a time my wife and I were very emotionally distant. We did little together, we didn’t examine or care for our relationship. We were acting as two singe people that happened to share an home and a small child. We spent most of our time at work, or working at home. I’m just setting the mood here . . . I am not trying to justify what happened. The feelings I felt during the affair were so intense at least partially because of the lack of feelings in the marriage. If you offer water to someone dying of thirst, they will probably believe that the water you offered was the best water ever created. I don’t know if you get what I’m trying to say . . . I have a way of confusing the simplest issue. What I’m driving at is I guess I was desperate for affection, and when it was given it felt wonderful. It wasn’t the OW it was the affection that was so addicting.

My affair did not run a normal course. There was never any closure. We broke it up in the “in-love” (excuse me while I try not you yack) stage. OW’s husband spent a lot of time waving around a .45, he just wasn’t sure whom he wished to shoot: himself, his wife, me, I think he really wanted to shoot us all. The police got involved. It was lovely.

Withdrawal sucks. I don’t know how else to describe it. That intense biochemical cocktail that has been awash in your brain is now absent. It is not just the absence of the high either . . . now you have to deal with a marriage that is exponentially worse than before the affair happened. And to top it off, you have a wife that isn’t exactly fun to deal with. I felt tremendous guilt for behaving the way I did. It is horrible to see the decimation that happens to the BS. I think that is why so many WS’s move out . . . it is the pain and the guilt that they are running away from, it isn’t necessarily the OW that they are running towards. I don’t know if you get over withdrawal for the feeling you had with the OW, I think what happens, at least for me, is that the feelings are transferred back to the wife, where they belong.

Before and during my affair I really didn’t think that my wife would really care if we split, I couldn’t have been more wrong. Watching her go through all that pain did something to me. I realized that she must really love me if she is willing to have such a schmuck for a husband. My wife is very pretty, a lawyer, and very sure of herself. She sure doesn’t need me around for the income. To watch a woman like that (or any spouse for that matter) destroyed is something one will never forget. I really don’t know how she, or any BS for that matter, deals with this mess. People amaze me sometimes.

Yes we love each other. Our marriage is better that it has ever been. We do things together, we spend time. We have wonderful sex . I think that sometimes people forget that sex is really play for adults. It should be fun . . . it should be a happy experience, not something done out of duty. Who wants mercy sex anyway? I’d rather pull the goalie. Even after two kids and ten years we kiss and have begun to play and enjoy the life that we have made.

Finally, (I bet your happy to see that written!) your old marriage is over. It died the day he broke those promises he made to you so many years ago. It is good to morn for your loss. It is fine to feel angry that something was stolen from you. Realize, however, that you can build something new. Something on a better foundation, something that will be less likely to again suffer from an affair. It can happen. I think, at least from the little that I have read that you post, that it will happen for you too.

Cheers,

CN

CV55

Jeez... I never meant to make you cry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Funny thing is, everything you just wrote about, namely the emotions, could have been written by me. Just change the names and geography. It is all so typical. In fact, now that my WW is reading some of these posts, one of the things that really gets to her, is the fact that the very basic facts, and the very basic thought processes that WS's have are darn near cookie cutter. It pisses her off that WS's are pretty predictable, and that one A is no more "special" than the other. Of course, hers was "way different" than all the others, and she wasn't the kind of person who fits ALL the discriptions we've seen about WS's. LOL!!

Your H is right in the thick of Withdrawal. It will take time. Remember to let those things he says BOUNCE OFF YOUR ARMOR OF INTELLIGENCE, because you know he's not having thought processes that are anything but selfish. He is grieving, and will continue to do so.

Plan A is the fan that eventually blows the FOG away. Make sure it's always plugged in.

Comfortably Numb gave you yet another reason to stay strong!!!

SD

Comfortably numb, I can see what WS thinking. But my WH even cannot face what he did. Is that the reason he said all those FOG things to me? He tried to make me to be responsible for what he did. Everybody mentions that BS got to be strong, how? What kind of strongness you are looking for?

I am taking care of the kids, taking care of the house and everything? Am't I strong enough?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lostnhurt:
<strong> Comfortably numb, I can see what WS thinking. But my WH even cannot face what he did. Is that the reason he said all those FOG things to me? He tried to make me to be responsible for what he did. Everybody mentions that BS got to be strong, how? What kind of strongness you are looking for?

I am taking care of the kids, taking care of the house and everything? Am't I strong enough? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lost:

It is so much easier to blame someone else for our own mistakes. He is saying terrible things to you because he needs to create, in his mind, some justification for his affair. What rational person would have an affair if they had a loving, fun, attractive, attentive spouse at home? See, he can’t justify the affair if you were these things so he is re-writing history. He has to turn you into something horrible so he wont feel so bad about what he did. Nobody cries when the troll is shot.

That fact that you are taking care of the kids, the house, and everything proves that you are indeed a strong woman. The fact that you get out of bed and continue to live even as your world is crumbling around you proves that you are strong. The fact that you are even considering moving past this event and continuing with your WH proves that you are strong. It would be much easier for you to cut your losses and run. True strength is being able to forgive someone even though they don’t deserve it. It takes strength to put this mess back together and do all the horrible gut-wrenching work that that requires.

It would be simple to love someone that was perfect, someone that had no flaws. But that really isn’t what love is. Placing yourself in harms way again (I’m talking emotionally here), and that is what you are doing if you want to stay married to your husband, is an act of courage and love . . . maybe insanity? It would also be simple to be in a marriage where there was always enough money, where everyone was always in a good mood, when the kids didn’t act like little destruction machines, etc. But that is not our lives.

Why would someone choose to still be with someone who treated them so poorly . . . if it isn’t insanity it is surely love. And why would someone purposely want to stay and look into the eyes of someone that they betrayed . . . to know what kind of pain your actions caused? Again, it is either insanity or love . . . and I’m rooting for love.

Cheers,

CN

Comfortably numb, I really appreciate your kind words. I know that I love my family and I want a complete family. I am doing the best I can. I don't know what make my world crumbled. I feel that I am loosing myself and numb.

Comfortably Numb, thanks for your honesty. It wasn't as sucky as you made it out to be. Actually helpful because in certain ways you and H sound similar. The friendship first. We actually had been in a really good place, but the terrible year really made it impossible for me to fully be there for him. As my shrink said, "Death takes presidence (sp?)over other things happening in our lives." I'm sorry my H couldn't understand why I couldn't be fully there for him. I was so stressed I had to get a stress test because I was having heart symptoms.

All he could see was his need for affection. Your description of the best water is how he describes not being able to resist the affection she was doling out, and admiration. As the BS it's hard for me to understand not being able to resist. Although in the Fall I felt so betrayed and sexually deprived by him, I would have at least been tempted by an A. The thing is I wasn't treating him badly, and I really tried to connect. And I wanted sex. This book, "Not Just Friends" states it's a myth that this only happens in crappy marriages.

Other similarities is that he cut it off in the "in-love" stage. Sorry, let me gag! I look at her and know, at least where we both are now, I am so much better, cooler, more together than OW. Although I'm not as young as her. My God, during this whole ordeal I've never dropped to the floor sobbing. H really believes it's because of her DEEP remorse. Yeh, right. How about he was ending the A, she was losing her job, new career, the company car, and the possible husband who has his own business. She's bankrupt.

Thanks again! I might drill you at a future date.

SD, this whole thing is very cookie cutter. But your right, they don't see it. This was the great love. More gagging!

CN and SD, are you both relatives of Miss Cleo? What gives you men the vibes that my H and I will work this out? Of course I believe Miss Cleo is in prison right now. As always, thanks friends!

CV55

Did I forget to mention that I AM in prison? WW is Bubba and OM is Snake. I'm working on my GED, so I can lurk her on the computer and keep an eye on you!!! Plan A works, just the same!

Keep a smile on your face and make everyone else wonder where you get your strength!!

SD

Thanks again SD. I laughed out loud while reading your last post. I needed it. Late morning H had called me from work ready to explode because of the way his work situation is now. He wasn't angry at me, but needed to vent. So I got into counselor mode to help him get through his crisis and suggested we go to dinner and see a comedy. I promised him no A talk. Of course he was very happy about that.

We had a nice time. Like two decent friends going out. Since this withdrawal stage he is showing me less affection. The attraction he was showing me several weeks ago also seems to be gone. It's weird! When he really began telling me the truth it was like he remembered who he is and what we had. He actually forgot he was attracted to me, and was surprised to realize he still was. Now it's gone. I reached out to hold his hand at the movie. Eventually he pulled it back. He wasn't being mean. I just know it's not me he's interested in.

I could feel myself getting bummed, but I didn't show him. This past year I never really lost my self-esteem, but I forgot what it was like to have a man interested in me. And he's still not interested in me. I was introduced to a man today. It was very brief, and I'll never see this guy again. But he was attractive, and I felt like I was attractive. Something I haven't felt with H in so long. I'm not saying I'm looking for an A. I'm not! Although he wouldn't care. I just hope one day I can feel that chemistry again. I can't stay with H if he won't let it happen. I'm hoping you all are right about this withdrawal stage. Also, I'm not finding him attractive. I probably could, but he's not meeting any of my ENs. I'm not sure I'm as strong or as determined as you.

I'll change the subject. I thought of 2 more ways in which I beat out OW. The partner had told me her grammer isn't always that great. During our little conversation 2 weeks ago I actually noticed her grammer. Here I am, talking about the effects of her screwing around with my H, and she said something like, "Got no", and I noticed it. As she's talking I'm thinking, "Wow, partner is right. She does have bad grammer." Secondly I think I am much funnier than her. I never found her that interesting to talk to. Of course I didn't get to receive her skills at giving affection, admiration, and who knows what else. I guess that beats out funny.

Hope you and Bubba have a good night in prison. Hopefully the Snake is in some maximum security prison where he'll never get to you two again!

CV55

Bubba's sleeping so I thought I'd write a quick reply.

I'm so proud of you. Your last post has shown that you have come to grips with all this, and, more importantly, you are reading WH like a book.

The part about hands touching at the movie, and him pulling away. Being in touch with your feelings, and controlling them, is most important. Being in touch with his feelings, and knowing how to react to them, is a learned skill, which you are beginning to understand, and it will take you down the path to recovery.

I'm proud of you. You should be too!

SD

SD, thanks for expressing you're proud of me, but I think it's a bit misguided. I went to bed after my last post and felt pretty down, and continue to feel that way this morning. I'm not sure what's to be proud of. The fact that I know in my gut my H doesn't want to be with me, but would rather be with someone else? The fact that he admitted they were like magnets as soon as the partner left the building, but he can't even hold my hand for long without pulling it away? So I realize THAT. What's to be proud of?

These are the thoughts I had this morning. I could be deluding myself, but I still think I'm attractive. I know I'm really smart, and I am funny. Plus I have the desire to learn and grow in my life. I'm not afraid to look at the painful things if I can evolve from them.

Now let's look at H. Even if he wasn't in a fog, it's very scary for him to face things. It has always been like pulling teeth. I know it goes back to his childhood, but he has to be willing to understand his behavior. It's easier to think it's that we are incompatible and he'd be better off with someone else.

Ok, this is the thing. Back to my morning thoughts. I actually thought of a question I'd like to ask out therapist privately. I hope you or anyone else on here won't think I'm being egotistical. That's not me. I just began wondering if I am smarter or more evolved than him, which results in him always feeling frustrated or not good enough. Believe me, I never put him down, or thought I was smarter or better than him. But he always reads me the wrong way. It's like he just doesn't get me, but I feel like I get him. This morning I found myself wondering if he really would be better off with OW. I'm sure she's smart. She ran his office very well. But I know I'm a lot more intelligent than her on a different level. Maybe Ow and H are just more suitable for one another. He can just be where he is with her.

The other thing I realized just talking to you and the other men on this site is the following. I like smart, clever men. I like the women here too, but since I'm not gay I'm speaking about the men. Maybe because of the profession I'm in I really respect people who have the courage to face life and look at themselves. I see the men on here, BSs and unfogged WSs alike, doing that. I really like men who have a sense of humor and who get mine. My H told me recently, while trying to think of something good about us, that we laugh together. However, he has also told me at times he doesn't get my humor. I want somebody who appreciates who I am, likes the fact that I'm intelligent, and can enjoy my sometimes sick humor that gets me through the crappy times. I'm wondering if H can ever be that person.

All of you have done a great job answering my question about H's feelings, and are they normal. You say yes, he's in withdrawal and everything I'm describing is normal. But, I'm not sure you spoke to my feelings. My feelings of ambivalence. Not being sure if I want to be with this man who caused this tremendous pain. This man who shows me affection only when he needs it, such as being held in bed. This man who is spending more time looking at Harley's on the internet, rather than spending time reading Harley's book and getting information himself on how to recover from this A.

So are you proud of me now? All of you are working so hard to keep your marriages together. Some of you have to deal with the OP still actively in WSs life. I feel like an ingrate. SO FAR, H hasn't had contact. I haven't had to Plan B him yet. But here I am wondering if I should stick it out. Selfishly not thinking about my boys. Wondering if I deserve better than him. So are my feelings normal? Now I'm actually wondering if we were ever in-love. OMG, his fog state is contagious. My 1st love before him was very dramatic. I met H shortly afterwards and took our relationship very slow. It definitely for me wasn't as intense. We really built a friendship first. I think for H it was more intense. Maybe what he experienced with OW is what stage one should be. Wow, I'm listening to what I'm writing and sounding really fogged out to myself. I hope some of you respond to this mass of confusion. I'm not sure I've read anyone's posts so far that sound like this. Thanks!

CV55

Ok, I've stopped laughing at the Harley one liner now, so I'll try to respond to your post.

Let's see? You are busting your backside to overcome the shock, sadness and grief of discovering your H had an A. You are in Plan A, which in reality is forcing yourself to do NOTHING THAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO (fireplace poker to the head, bamboo shoots under the fingernails, beat him around the head and shoulders with an arm you ripped off the OW).

Rather, Plan A is like the victim of a Car/Train accident getting out of a badly smashed car to tend to the well being of the engineer, whose locomotive has received barely a scratch.

The victim has to treat the perpetrator. Isn't that about the most ironic, as well as disguesting thing to imagine. Incredible to me that Dr. Harley could have conceived that remedy!!!

But I digress. You are wondering why you are feeling ambivelant. You are wondering if you've become enshrouded in your own fog. All boiled down, you are wondering if it's worth all the effort, with so little received in return, and worse, no guarantees.

If we were talking about ANY other part of your life, it'd be a no brainer. You'd be done with it, history, goner, outta here. Right?

But this FOGASAUR you are trying to save from extinction is YOUR husband. Drat the luck. The bottom line is: You are the only one who can answer those questions. And you must eventually answer them.

But... You can always pull the ripcord and float away into your new life. Anytime you want, you can say, that's it. But only this once can you go the distance to try to save the M. Divorce is forever (in most cases... my younger brother remarried his first wife after he married the OW and divorced her 1.5 years later). You have read on other posts that recovery can easily last up to 2 years. You are around 60 days into the thick of this? You know the facts best, and what you can endure better than anyone.

I see strength and resolve in your posts. I sense you can do more than you think you can. I see a woman that has grown a lot in a short time. If you don't believe me... type your member number in the search function, and see how far you've come!

Of course there will be bad days. WH won't snap out of the fog/withdrawal in a day or a week or a month. Its painstakingly slow, and can vary from day to day. But the OW is gone, there is NC, and he's at least sharing his thoughts with you now. There is progress. It's just hard to perceive.

Stay strong

SD

Well SD, once again you've captured exactly what I'm feling right now. I don't think I cried this time. The bamboo shoots under the fingernails, no actually it was OWs severed arm used to beat H, was the part that really described how I'm feeling. I'm feeling a bit better. Just a really down day. Maybe I got a bad Lexapro pill today.

You're right, I do have the option of pulling the ripcord. Today it sounded appealing. Yet I know divorce ain't no picnic either. And this appears to be the opportunity to maybe heal from this. So I'm not ready to bail yet. I think sometimes I just have to get those thoughts out.

The books I have been reading make it sound like us women aren't as bothered as men by the sexual aspects of an A. Well, I'm bothered! I hate all of it. I hate the fact that he ignored the numerous times I told him to be careful in regards to OW. I'm angry that he opened the door anyway and allowed himself to feel love for her. H has said to me several times, "I don't get you shrinks. You're always telling us to go with our feelings." I said, "No, we tell you to acknowledge your feelings. That's different than acting on them, especially when they are inappropriate." Finally, I HATE the thought of what they were doing together. H stopped kissing me. When he was kissing me a month ago it was very passionate. I actually thought, "Oh, I wonder if he improved because he was kissing her." Now I found out yesterday that is exactly what happened. Why couldn't he have just tried to improve himself with me?

Finally you're right about me having to eventually answer the question is this the man for me? He won't be if he doesn't do the recovery work.

SD, I would love to get to my early posts. In fact I wish I would have copied them. I have a desire to keep a record of this whole process. I tried search and I couldn't get to them. I tried all sorts of things. Plus, it seems you can only go back 30 days. If you would give me more detailed instruction I'd appreciate it. I even looked myself up as a member and couldn't find me. When you have time I'd appreciate the info.

By the way, I wasn't even trying to be funny with the Harley line. I'm glad you got a good laugh anyway. Take care, and have a good night with Bubba!