JL...

I think it's "Private Lies" by the author you name. There's a list of 10 common facts or something like that that supports what you mention. It's pretty eye opening.

Thank you 3 for responding, every bit of advise is greatly appreciated. I know that a big part of my heart will always be with my ex, he is the father of my children. We were together since high school and weathered many storms together. I wish I could just move on and get over these feelings of being a complete "homewrecker". I suppose this will work itself out when I sit down with someone, and sift through the many thoughts I have going through my head.

Christine

Here's the article/quote I think JL might be talking about. It shows up here frequently.
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5% is the correct figure and it pretty much is discussed in any/all affair/infidelity books to some degree.

Here's one from Frank Pittman's "Private Lies":


quote:
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In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
• Intervention of reality
• Guilt
• Disparity of sacrifice
• Expectations
• General distrust of marriage
• Distrust of affairee
• Divided loyalties
• The nature of infidels
• The nature of affairees
• Romance
• Scapegoating the betrayed
• Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman’s sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.

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JL,

Your post really got me thinking...I think you hit the nail on the head. Well, I have felt guilt for a long time which can account for my relationship demise. I do feel that if this relationship fails, that everyone hurt by this was for not. I hope I am not confusing everyone!

B4, I have seen the statistics before. Thank you for the article.

Again, thanks to all

I notice that if I look at baby pictures or pictures while I was married, that is a HUGE guilt trigger for me. I take this as being normal for any WS that has come out of the fog.

Iamsorry-

Glad you had a chance to read up on HP's story. I only pointed it out so you could see that anything is possible with a little persistence. However, only you can know whether something along the lines of a R are possible or even advisable in your case. Good luck on your journey and let us know how it's going!

Thanks Litchfield!

Iamsorry,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel that if this relationship fails, that everyone hurt by this was for not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to say this but whether or not this relationship makes it, everyone was hurt for not. There was no good reason to do what you did or for what your SO did. Really there wasn't and I think you know it.

So the current status of your relationship will NOT remove the pain all felt. In fact your continuing the relationship means that your ex has to face and hear about the OM that destroyed his marriage raising his children. So for him, the pain continues as he is reminded of what happened. I am sure that is true for SO's W. Perhaps that is why she moved so far away. She cannot stand to be near you and constantly hear about you.

So staying or leaving your relationship brings pain and has brought pain. Therefore, the pain or lack of it is NOT a good reason to leave it or stay in it.

I have no idea what your marriage was like, but I am guessing that the length of time for your engagement says a lot about what your current relationship is really like. Your SO may not state it but perhaps he also has issues with regard to your relationship.

Finally, there is something else you need to think about and that is the difference between guilt and remorse. Guilt is what you feel when you are doing something you KNOW is wrong and you KNOW you need to stop. Remorse is what you feel about something you have done, that was bad.

I am thinking that you are thinking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> that guilt is the right term. You do feel that the relationship you are in is wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, but reflect on these two words carefully and decide where you really are.

Have you ever discussed with your exH how you could make "amends" for what you did to him and the family? Have you even expressed a desire to make amends? I know you stated that you have told him you are sorry for what you did. You already realize as I am sure does he, that you can never make right what was destroyed, but you can try in some measure to make amends. That might help assuage your guilt/remorse.

This is difficult for you because you are undecided. It is difficult to respond to because this is a marriage building site, so I and perhaps others would love to see you reunite your family. Yet, that may not work. Then you might be asking advice on how to make your relationship with SO better. We can offer that as well, but it seems that is not really the issue.

So I suspect as you talk here, the first order of business is for you to come to grips with this and decide what you want to do. Then we can more effectively help you.

I do hope you seek advice from your clergy or a counselor.

God Bless,

JL

Great thread going here.

(((Iamsorry))) you are getting some terrific advice here, I'm so happy you found this site! As a WS who is just now coming out of the fog and trying to save my M slowly but surely, I needed so much to read what is being posted here, especially B4Long's post. Believe it or not, you coming here and sharing your feelings is helping me very much. I have fantasized running away w/OM. We talked about it all the time as if it would be inevitable.

It's hard to see reality when caught up in the fantasy of an A. I was so close to leaving my H for OM and he for me as well. I found MB and little by little started to see reality thanks to the caring wise folks here. I was at the point that I didn't care about H anymore that I convinced myself I didn't love him and that OM was my "soulmate".

I fought against reality and went back and forth with OM until I finally had to do NC. I started to have doubts and that was enough for me to at least TRY to make things work at home w/H. Well after a month of not seeing OM and 2.5 weeks of NC at all, I am starting to like H again. I am enjoying his company and we are beginning to connect.

I am still going thru withdrawl from OM, it was a very intense "soulmate" affair that stemmed from a tight friendship, so sometimes I can't give my H 100% of my attention. H doesn't want to be involved in the withdrawl (he doesn't want to know how I am missing "HIM" or the pain I am going thru over "HIM", and I can't say as I blame him). But I can see already a HUGE improvement! And I save the "withdrawl" talk for my therapist who i see twice a week.

I guess what I am saying is, I am very happy that I didn't run away w/OM. Who knows how long the R would have lasted with OM? I have no idea about the guilt or remorse or regret or any of the things you are feeling because of the people who got hurt as a result of your A(I don't have children but I don't think that matters, an A is an A and hurting H and his family - who doesn't know of my A - is enough). And most likely I would regret leaving my H who is the most unbelievably caring amazing guy, ever!

As much as I am SO SO sorry for the pain you are feeling, I am glad you are here. Because you will find so much wisdom and caring and love at this site and also because I am able to see a very real image of what things could have been like if I did run away w/OM. And believe me I still have to fight off the fantasy thoughts even today.

So thank you, and I wish you much happiness and success. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: mrsx ]</small>

Iamsorry,

There is a book called Reconcilable Differences by Jim Talley (a Christian). It has several examples of divorced couples who remarried years later (one was 12 yrs later). It was encouraging to me when I thought my H may have divorced me for OW.

I saw that their relationship could turn into a disaster. There were 3 kids on both sides.

After OW's divorce my H moved in with her. It didn't take long for reality to set in and the fog to lift on my H's side. I am thankful it only took a month or two of them living together for that to happen.

Your XH can't even begin to consider any possibily of reconciliation as long as you are still living with and in any contact with your SO.

If reconciliation is at all possible then it would happen if and when you are living away from OM with NC and exhibit repentance and remorse, seeking forgiveness. Then you may have a chance to start a rebuilding process.

If there is a problem with saving face..if you were to remarry your XH, maybe it would be best to start out fresh in another area.

I am sure a reconciliation would be best for all concerned; not the least of which your kids.

It would take lots of work, resolve, commitment, and a relinquishing of both of your pride to some extent. If you and he could be successful in reconciliation then you could take pride in that accomplishment.

It is still possible to have a much better re-marriage with your XH than you ever could have believed.

I see your present condition as a blessing and an answer to someone's prayers...possibly OM's XW's.

hello. you ,in many ways, remind me of hopeful. one difference is, she knew she wanted ex husband back. you have not made that statement to my knowledge. do you want ex back, because you want him , or want him back to try and restore you past life. there is a difference between the two. by all means go to counseling . a good counselor is a travel guide on a journey of self discovery. too, reading these boards will help immensely. in both places you will see yourself reflected back to you in more obvious ways than our conversation we have inside our head tends to show us. many of these posters collectively have more wisdom than most counselors. listen to them. as to what you might consider doing. Im one who believes in action as opposed to a passive approach to our problems we have in life. you wish to find yourself . to do this you must be on your own . away from other man and ex husband. this isolation will give clearity. also,, I think you might feel as though you have made a step toward some resolution of your remorseful feelings. social isolation from relationships can be seen as penance for past wrongdoing. this behavior can have a pallative effect on the wrongdoer as well as others around them. I think it wise that many reccomend that those whose relationships have been destroyed not engage in close relationships for a period of time. this could be your healing time if you seperate yourself from the other man. and too, your ex will see you in somewhat of a different light. this doesn mean he will want to resume marriage necessarily but it will bring you somewhat closer. this would be good for the sake of the children. too if other mans wife takes him back this can possibly lessen some of your emotional turmoil. remember, as people we often fail others in many ways. but if we recognise our failures and show regret we are almost forgiven as someone once said. post often, read what you have posted, and you will learn about who you are and what you need.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Finally, there is something else you need to think about and that is the difference between guilt and remorse. Guilt is what you feel when you are doing something you KNOW is wrong and you KNOW you need to stop. Remorse is what you feel about something you have done, that was bad. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I think both hold true for me. I am remorseful for what I have done in the past, and I feel guilt for continuing and not making things right.

I want to thank everyone who posted. After I was through reading, you could have knocked me over with a feather. It's like each of you know ME, know my ex, my so, his wife...it is incredible at how much wisdom you all have.

I agree that I need to find myself. I feel like I lost the person I used to be. I try to think of how and when I have changed...one thing, I hardly laugh when my babies aren't around...heck, I hardly smile..that bothers me.