Well shoot...I am not sure I placed it on the right thread...so I'm doing a duplicate post here...


I have read and watched this saga unfold and I have come to a conclusion...mind you this is simply MY opinion.

I think that a Plan B was implemented for the WRONG reason. Plan B is implemented when the BS is so close to losing feelings for the WS that they have to protect themselves by going to Plan B. If she were close to losing those feelings, she would be embracing this plan. As it stands, she is NOWHERE near that loss. She is using Plan B in order to get him to return home...sort of like making him see what he is missing...which is NOT what it's meant for...at least not what I read of the Harley concepts.

I think that Plan B is a bust as long as she is willing to put up with the drinking and the OW. I have YET to see anything from her that contradicts my statement. What I do see is that she is upset and wants him back home...which means (to me) that she is still ready willing and able to ride out the insanity of his boozing and women.

It's being used for the wrong reason. It's being used as a manipulation tool. Manipulating him into wanting her...and into coming home...regardless of anything else.

Now, I could be terribly off base with MY opinion...but the more that I read...the more I am thinking that I am right.

Melody,

You are one smart cookie...and right more times than not. I think that the reasons you had for encouraging her to go to a Plan B were great, I just don't think that LL is working off the same sheet of music that you are.

JMHO
committed

LL -

If you don't answer your phone, and it is his pick-up day, if you honestly think he would ditch his daughter in the middle of nowhere, then he has no business having that responsibility.

Do what you need to do as an adult. As the only responsible adult in this mess.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "generalized anxiety disorder". Even when things are good, I can be sick with worry--over nothing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi LL,
This has to be hell for you. I'm realy sorry. Just remind yourself that you tend to overdo it, and dig out those 'calming techniques' that your IC has taught you.

Do you have the book 'How to Subbornly Refuse to make yourself Miserable about Anything, Yes Anything' by Albert Ellis? It's a very good book for anxieties, full of calming techniques (Rational Emotive Therapy). I have to break mine out from time to time to remind myself that I CAN survive. Please hang on and take care - Dru

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wish I had a friend or two I could just call or hang out with tonight, but I don't (not to mention, I'll be here at the office for another several hours).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where are you LL? What state?

I wonder if you are close to me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'll hang out with you if you don't mind an occasional "whack"!

I think about everyone on here (except for SS who is from the other "I" state confused with mine) is on one of the coasts.

I'm in Iowa. (Corn, NOT potatoes!)

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Where are you LL? What state?

I wonder if you are close to me? I'll hang out with you if you don't mind an occasional "whack"!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right! She is good at this!

But Suz... occasional? LL Be prepared to wear a helmet! LOL but she is good!

LL a thing that worked for me... try to share AOL's or msn's with ladies from here, you share the time, don't feel lonely, learn a lot and have some fun. Meanwhile the crisis pass... If you want mine to let me know. It has helped me a lot, so maybe it does to you too?

Take good care

Matilde,

I have a very hard head. Susan can smack away. I'm rather ungraceful and have cracked it on about everything. A few smacks aren't going to do permanent damage, and might actually take my mind off the situation. Bring 'em on.

Someone else posted a link to a woman's live chat that goes on every now and then. I didn't quite understand when and how. I do feel very isolated here. The few friends I have at work are married so they actually do "family" thing on weekends. I do have one other friend, but she spends her weekend smoking pot--okay, that might take my mind off things, too, but it's not really the method I'm looking for.

LL

LL-

I agree with MelodyLane and would add these two things -

Go to Alanon

The drinking adds a another dimension to the situation where alanon can help you. Go for you and you only. Go enough times to let it begin to seep in. It will work if you let it. Remember you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

Another suggestion would to schedule a session with one of the Harleys. They are good and have had experience with addictions. (At least I know Steve has)

The combination of the two could transform your life. And who knows what might happen then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

D.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

LL

When have you been able to force your WH to do anything. Were you able to force him to give up the OW? Were you able to force him to stop drinking? What exact power do you have over your WH?
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He choose to start drinking He choose to keep seeing the OW</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He choose to have an A</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He choose to rent and apartment</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He choose to move to the apartment</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is choosing to use your children as pawns to control you</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He choose to continue the A</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Is there any way that you have acutually succeded in forcing him to do anything? Stop thinking you can force his hand.
The only one you can control is yourself. You are the stronger person in the M. You just have to realize that. He really does need you more then you need him. Heck he needed you to pick out the first apartment.

Hope your doing better. You've gotten a lot of good replys.

LL,

I got up this morning thnking of you and this is what came to mind -

Before you can HAVE something, you must first DO something. In order to DO something, you must first BE something

So what is it that you want to HAVE?

A sober husband?
A restored marriage?

These are both things outside of you that you can not control. You may be able to influence but these are not within your direct control.

Then you must DO something in order to HAVE those things

The doing part has been so elequently stated on this thread. Some of them are

Go to alanon - make friends there. Find an online version if need be. Buy the alanon books, read them, write out the answers. If you need suggestions on which books, let me know. You can buy them online. There are also great tape series. They literally save me, I would listen to them as I went to sleep, in the car.... It was funny but I would say - How did she know that about me??????

Talk with one of the Harleys. They are experienced and have dealt with many in this situation, you are not the first. I know because I was one. One session may give you enough peace of mind, a clear dirction and determination to do what it takes.

There are more, but I won't reiterate them here so I can get to the last part ....

You must first DO something before you can BE something.

What do you want to be?

A calm, confident woman who is OK with herself NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH YOUR MARRIAGE?


-----------------------------------------------

From committed and loving it,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's being used for the wrong reason. It's being used as a manipulation tool. Manipulating him into wanting her...and into coming home...regardless of anything else.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a personal note - In my sesssion with Steve Harley, he suggested to me when I was in similar shoes

Plan A till I could not, and would check my ovle bank on this.

To research and do what I needed to do to protect myself and the kids. If that meant going to an attorney for INFORMATION only, then so be it. (I was physically ill and mentally a wreck doing this) I researched and asked questions on those on the DV board, and then followed through. It didn't mean I was doing anything right now. I filed away the information just in case.

Steve also told me if I was going to plam B, to work all the details out, get a leagal separation if needed so that it did not appear to look like manipulation to WH.

I also knew that if I ever did separate, that I had to be willing to follow through and actually do it. That scared the crap out of me. I wasn't that person. Sure I was a strong independant woman who ran a business, was raising great kids alone, and all the other good stuff. Just inside when it came to my husband, I was hooked. In all honestly, it was love, it was belief in marriage, but it was also fear of being without him.

Then I would say to myself - Wait- he's already left me !!!! That was my greatest fear. He didn't file anything, he never told me he was leaving, he just inched his way out of our marriage.

By the time I did file for legal separation, I was a different person. I loved him, I wanted him, but I was willing to live without him and live my life. That's when he came back, but he told me that he had been watching me for quite a while. He saw that I had changed, that I was going ahead with my life and his alcoholic mind even thought that I was having an A because I was out doing things. Note: I was not, I never even dated anyone.


LL, I need to go- we are closing our business -THANK GOD !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> where FWH had been living (if that is what you call it !) This is such a big step in our relationship. Here was a marriage that was dead from most people's standards, it is yet to be seen what arises from the ashes.

One last thing - when this first started, I asked myself if WH was instantly transformed into the ideal husband that I always wanted, would I be the wife he needed?

That hit hard, because the answer was no, I wasn't. Thats where I had to start. I am now that woman and wife, and FWH is becomming the husband I always wanted and prayed for.

The power of a praying wife by Stormie Omaritian (sp?) also helped sooooooo much. The first day I started the book, something was differnet between FWH and I. Others have said the same.

(((((((((((((((LL))))))))))))))))

You will get thru this

D.

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

LL

You said you felt lonely on weekends and I do relate to that. The ladies chat... no one is on that this days, mostly on the boards.

See? this is ANOTHER WAY on how Al-Anon will help you. You meet new ladies and can also get friends to hang out on weekends. They sure understand your problem, so you shoot 2 birds on one shot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Go to Al-Anon!. I understand your fears, MB or let me refrase, MB ladies made me go to AA (and that can be more scarier for an alcoholic, and even more when you thought you were not one), but I decided to be obedient in what I was hearing from me here, obviously my tactics weren't working at all. That it took a lot of time? Yes, But it is worth it so much that I got no words to thank them.

I thought it was not for me (yeah right my denial), but WOW the people there is very kind, and I'm learning and getting better. I deserve this! You too!

Take care

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

From Matilde-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Go to Al-Anon!. I understand your fears, MB or let me refrase, MB ladies made me go to AA (and that can be more scarier for an alcoholic, and even more when you thought you were not one), but I decided to be obedient in what I was hearing from me here, obviously my tactics weren't working at all. That it took a lot of time? Yes, But it is worth it so much that I got no words to thank them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am very happy for you that you found AA, it will change your life and can see it already has. AA is such a geat program, not at all what I thought it would be - it's about living not just about not drinking.

TThe MB ladies here are great.hey strongly suggested that I go to alanon again and again. I thought I knew the deal - had been in AA over 10 years at that point. Boy was I wrong!!! What finally convinced me was how the alanons were living thier lives both on these boards and off and applying the MB principles. They seemed to have a peace about them and I wanted that. So it was actions not words that spurred me to action.

Alanon was pretty scarey - I can't say any less than when I first went to AA. It's just different thats all. In some respects it is even scarier because it is not you that is drinking and you have no control over that. But the peace, joy and serenity are worth every second invested. The alanon ladies are great too. Many have dealt with the same issues that we do here at MB. This forum may help some of them too. It's a good combination.

Really need to go .......Have a great and wonderful day.

LL - Today write down all the wonderful traits you want to have in yourself and read and repeat!

Blessings,

D.

Hi WillGetThruThis

I also went to Al-Anon. WE went. Me and my H. I still fear that he has not a spiritual path. I know is not my job to find that for him, but I thought Al-Anon was as good as any program to that if not the best. Also I wanted him to understand what I'm. And how it affected me and our relationship.

I plan to keep going to both, AA and Al-Anon. And yes they are brothers, but different <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I love both. I think Al-Anon can help me more in my co-dependency issues than AA, that is why I will keep going.