to dissipate or disappear like vapor. the act or state of vanishing away; disappearance; as, the evanescence of vapor, of a dream, or hopes. the property of lasting for a very short time (ephemerality, ephemeralness, fleetingness)

empty-ness comes, a barren vessel, a ship afloat, lingering without the wind, guided in the dark, by loneliness, adrift, led by her storm, influenced by the gravity of her moon, following her through the night, the mistress of darkness impeached his destination, crashing on the shores... the shores of pain, torment and time

the new journey, equally as much hell as the last voyage under her power, this time the darkness, the loneliness belongs to me, not becaue of her, the darkness, the loneliness has to end, relvations of being alone, will be no more... h2y has been removed, the patient, tender crown removed, smashed upon the ground, the kingdom falls, the city is silent. empty-ness comes, lives and dies forever and ever.

h2y is no more ever again. the resurrection of empty begins, right here, right now....

respectfully,

empty
(husband2you)

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Empty ]</small>

...changing suits forever.

I won't post as h2y (husband2you) any longer. never again. i have done all i can to bring her home, but she won't answer to it, so there's no reason posting or behaving as a husband anymore.

I'll answer to h2y.. but I won't post as h2y anymore. I'm in no better place than I have been for the last 5 years. I'm going to change that, hopefully, by myself, since I'm so (insert your favorite 'F' explicitive) alone as it is.

no.. this isn't the better, newer, me. its the same, stuck, depressed, lonely, bitter, angry, person.

not sure how long I'll be here.. whether it will be regular or not. I'm sure I'll revisit throughout my life, wondering why people hurt and cheat on their spouses, wishing what I had before the W's affair wasn't gone, and die an bitter, lonely old man.

yes, i'm still married. why? I have no idea.

You are still married because you kept your vows. My WH is still with OW, but I have remained faithful and intend to continue.

However I have moved on with my life, and you can too.

I haven't kept my vows. I failed myself and my children after she left the dozenth time. I had a 10 day affair (if you can call it that), 18 months after her affair started... which continues, still...

I've never done plan b. don't bother with making suggestions... i know what i need to do. i'm here.. i guess.. because i'm lonely.. and before i make another mistake.., another affair, 10 days worth or whatever, i need to have the support of friends. DK, we need to talk. but I need you to listen to me. Listen and that's it. I don't want a lecture. I need your help DK.

Empty
I think 5 years is long enough. You need to move on or life will pass you by. So transforming is probably the right thing

My dear E bro',

I have been thinking about you. Wondering and wondering. You know me and I can talk & post a lot but not with those $50.00 words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> This 'ol island gal does much betta in pidgin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You and I (esp u) have been here a long time. We both know that recovery starts with us (ie: personal recovery). The other kind (M kind) takes 2. If there isn't 2, then personal is still achieveable.

If your W wants to be with the OM or whatever, then no you can't change her. You already knew that. The pain of realizing her choices don't make sense to you and your children or others is hard but you can recover from that.

Now with the above said, how can we help you move forward. You are NOT old (I got you beat on 'dat one, ya know). So you do have a lot of your life ahead of you. You and the boys. ok?

I will now call you by your revised MB name but I would like to ask you rethink this E name for a better suited one. A few of us or many, know you by face and by chatting, you can't convince those that know that you are an empty person. Not that you are fat.....by no means buff, yea but not chunks, ya hear?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So bro' let's go through the paces of recovery again. In a more productive way this time. For you and the boys, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

aloha,
L.

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

C&S,

Thank you, I know its time to move on. See below.

O,

I need to let you know L, that I am at great risk right now of having an affair... and or... a meaningless relationship involving sex and only sex. I am very lonely and 'looking' to get into trouble. I know that this is NOT what I need emotionally, but I'm definetly past the vikingdog stage. I'm falling into depression again and have had thoughts of... but anyways.

The protector in me is telling me to come here, again. I really battled with myself this morning to force myself to post. Now, if I can stay out of the middle of arguements and insults from those here who have no idea what i've been through, I'll stay.

The whole reason I left last year was to my demise and I won't tell another BS to leave so that their WS can come post and try to figure things out on their own. Its insult to injury when accusations are made by those here who have no idea what I've been through.

And, no, I'm not blaming anyone here.. especially my W, of the condition I've let myself get into. Triggers and the anniversary of dates this past month have set me spiralling. My needs are being met by no one AND haven't been for a very long time. Of course, several of you will simply think that its the 'sex' that I'm doing without, that is killing me.. but its three things. Affection, admiration and sex. Honesty and openness which were my two biggest needs last year.. have taken a back seat. I could really careless what the truth is anymore. O, anyways... I'm happy to see you but as I always say upon returning.. not under these conditions of you still being here. I would hope that everyone has moved on and left this place, but I guess we'll always be tied to this place someway in throughout the rest of our lives.

"E"

I won't lecture, and the only "negative" thing I will say to you is that I don't like your new screen name!

I think "Empty" is too negative, too easily self-fulfilling. I wish you'd pick a new, new name! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Something with a little more hope attached........

Like: "Searching"
or: "WTF?"
or: aw shucks, here we go again........"
or:

Oh, you get the idea!

I know the feelings. I know the utter hopelessness feeling, of not knowing WHERE the he!! you're headed. WTF happened......etc.

BUT, hopefully, you'll work through it, and Empty won't "fit" for you anymore. So, I'm hoping you'll reconsider a better screen name. One that reflects where you'd like to be, NOT where you are now, but aren't going to stay!

We're here to "listen" anytime you are ready to let it out, bro.

God Bless,

Gees Empty,

I am with you tonight. Must be something in the air. Having a very depressing night and feeling very lonely. My needs haven't been met since July 03. I don't know how much longer I can stand this either sometimes. God help us all.

NY

<strong>Empty: ...O,

I need to let you know L, that I am at great risk right now of having an affair... and or... a meaningless relationship involving sex and only sex. I am very lonely and 'looking' to get into trouble. I know that this is NOT what I need emotionally, but I'm definetly past the vikingdog stage. I'm falling into depression again and have had thoughts of... but anyways. </strong>

Orchid: E, I know you are. The force (MB) is still strong with you and waaay out here near the pacific coast, I know. Last time you checked, you were still human right? Ok, but getting into trouble isn't going to fix it even for a little while. The fix you need s/b a positive one. One you can feel proud of. Like the way your son's make you feel when they have done good in school.

Your current state of mind and thoughts is not safe for you now. We know, many of us have been there. E, you deserve a good M and family. It will come just not know. Maybe not even with your W. I know you wished it would be it seems it may not be her choice. When you were on your edge of despair did she show attempts to return but it seems when you get stronger she pulls back. Like it is a game she won't admit to playing but a push and pull none the less.

Listen, I had always wished the both of you well but if someone acts like they are playing games, well....... I don't like it. Not that my opinion matters but I can still have one. You all just don't have to acknowledge or listen to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Remember when I was in a similar boat? Right here on MB you gently pulled me out of the mire of despair, washed off all the sludge of depression and took me on a beautiful beach walk and picnic. I still remember it E. I will never forget it. What you did by reaching out to me probably saved my life. I was ready to throw in the towel, wanted to end it all, remember? You and several others worked quite hard. I was hearing it but it wasn't sinking in. My heart was closing and closing fast. Remember?

You are a smarter and wiser person than I. You knew what to do. Please, let me extend my MB hand of friendship to you also. Come on and tomorrow we will go and take a walk on that same beach. My treat this time, bro'. For old times sake, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


<strong>Empty: The protector in me is telling me to come here, again. I really battled with myself this morning to force myself to post. Now, if I can stay out of the middle of arguements and insults from those here who have no idea what i've been through, I'll stay. </strong>

Orchid: I am sure it was a battle. But you listen with the same heart that helped me, I know you will be able to take the good and drop the bad that comes from those who care.

You are tougher than most know. You have been fighting for your family for how long, 5+ years? That is a long time.

Please don't go.

<strong>Empty: The whole reason I left last year was to my demise and I won't tell another BS to leave so that their WS can come post and try to figure things out on their own. Its insult to injury when accusations are made by those here who have no idea what I've been through.</strong>

Orchid: Remember this board has changed a lot since last year. Don't be too angry with those who are posting. Their intentions are well meant and even I have done posts in haste.

I don't recall you telling a BS to leave so the WS can post. I don't even recall anyone telling you to do so. Maybe you don't want to become as confrontational like when SNL and Thinker were posting. That I can understand but they both needed support. Of course SNL reads here and posts with a different user name so I guess, it is helping somewhat.


<strong>Empty: And, no, I'm not blaming anyone here.. especially my W, of the condition I've let myself get into. Triggers and the anniversary of dates this past month have set me spiralling. My needs are being met by no one AND haven't been for a very long time. Of course, several of you will simply think that its the 'sex' that I'm doing without, that is killing me.. but its three things. Affection, admiration and sex. Honesty and openness which were my two biggest needs last year.. have taken a back seat. I could really careless what the truth is anymore. O, anyways... I'm happy to see you but as I always say upon returning.. not under these conditions of you still being here. I would hope that everyone has moved on and left this place, but I guess we'll always be tied to this place someway in throughout the rest of our lives. </strong>

Orchid: Your ENs are what they are with you. You certainly don't have unusual ENs and with the length of time you have had to deal with this, I am quite amazed you are able to move forward as well as you did. Just want to see you set a safer momentum forward. Maybe work on another EN, one that gives and takes together.

You know E, my H came back and after a few more fiascos, he seems to be in recovery. Plan B is always in my back pocket and though by rights he is doing well.....my requirements have gone up not down. He has a ways to go but at least it is progressive. I have a ways to go also so it is not just 1 sided. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'd have to say that the ENs you listed above are some of mine. I had to learn that until I was with someone who could properly satisfy those ENs, I had to learn how to get those same ENs met in a safer way. Some of it came from work, my child, helping here..... but 1 just had to be forced to go lower on the list. Of course you know which one that was. But like cutting back on anything too excessive, I learned that I was not going to 'die' w/o cex. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know you know the drill. Can't hurt to have loving reminder thought, 'eh?

Watch out for my post tomorrow. Maybe sometime tomorrow evening.

Aloha bro',
L.

(((((((( K ))))))))

I have no advice for you, but I do want to offer my support to you. Like O, DK, and many others... I'm always here for you, just as you were here for me when I needed help the most.

You made the comment that you really don't know why you are still married. What is keeping you from filing or legally separating?

I am heartbroken to hear that your W has gone back to the OM. His addiction is surely powerful, and being the abuser that he is, she is obviously not strong enough to break free from that cycle. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I believe that you've done all you can do to help her K. It's all up to her now, and it has been that way for quite some time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Karen

p.s. If you need to talk, email me at topie25@hotmail.com with your phone number (I lost it...sorry!). I've got a plan that gives me 2.9 cents per minute, so the cost isn't an issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

thank you K and O, I'll post a reply back to you either tonight or tomorrow morning.

K

k - icq

It sounds to me like you are to be admired. You have tries for five years to recover your marriage. There are not many people around with the fortitude to stick at that for that long. I am not familiar with the exact situation, but please don't beat yourself up for your slip after 18 months. Hell BS have needs too. 18 months is a long time to go without love, affection, admiration and I guess yes SF.

And I can well understand that now you are needing your EN filled again. Boy to give and give without receiving yourself is not easy.

Not knowing your exact situation I can give you no advice as to what you should or shouldn't do re your marriage.

But there does come a time when you are ready to say enough is enough, I have given all that I can. I know that I have done all that I am humanly capable of to right this and unfortunately it is no longer in my hands. If this is how you are thinking give yourself permission to give up. Giving up might feel like you have failed or let the MB down. Not so, you have shown great success in perservering and knowing that you did all you could. (Yes mistakes and all -- you are human, not a saint).

And it sounds from others posts like you have helped plenty of people here.

Time to work on your own happiness. Refocus on developing you and your strengths etc. Transforming yourself not just in name but in person. I don't know about the name, empty. However, I guess if it is empty, it is new and has plenty of room for you to fill yourself up and make yourelf full again.

Hugs and prayers
C&S

Dear E,

How are you doing? R U ready to go for a walk? Howz about snow mobiling? I you are pretty good on a bike so handling a snow mobile s/b a piece of cake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The lodge is located near a medium size lake. We are joining 6 other riders. You may know a few of them, JL, Faith1, Topie, WAT, JR & JDMac. A few of them flew in for this special group trip. Our guide is a ski instructor from the nearby ski resort. She is a special friend and my SIL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Be nice, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We are going to take a few laps around the lake, stop off and play around a bit in the nearby meadow. It is full of mogels and you can practice your jumps. I want to see you show off your riding skills.

At the top of the mountain will be a special surprise. You ready? Suit up, jacket, helmet and gloves. It's kinda sunny right now so you may want to put on your shades. Wow, you look cool in green and black. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JL wants to lead so we'll let him, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The girls are ready and look soo cute all bundled up. Faith is in a yellow and blue snow suit with gloves to match. Topie is wearing white and purple, her blonde hair is just shining JR is a sport and he's raring to go. Can't keep that guy down. JDMac's all decked out in new gear, he looks good too.

All head out and do a couple of laps around the lake. At first the ride feels a bit rough but then we get used to it. The scenary is beautiful, with the crisp air smelling so clean and fresh. The trees carry a slight breeze, soon our suits start to get warm.

WAT wants to head out to the meadow and race with JDMac. JR guns his snow mobile and beats all of us to the meadow. In the distance we see a dear and her fawns. There are 2 of them, soon we see more dear as they bound away.

Wow, you went over 2 mogels and went airborne for about 25 feet. YIKES! The girls are clapping. WAT tries and goes about 15 feet. JL does about 10 and Topie does the same. JR & JDmac do about 20 feet. Faith & I do 2 short jumps less than 6 feet each. After a few rounds of the meadow, we park our bikes and take a short break.

The weather is clear and crisp. The instructor tells us that when we get to the top of the mountain, we can see all of Lake Tahoe and even see Yosemite in the distance. It is still hard for me to see Yosemite (remember that was a trigger for me). You all pull together and reassure me that you all will help me get through that trigger.

Off we go to the top of the mountain. It is a 1 1/2 hour right straight up. Going deeper into the mountains our snow mobiles strain to go up that steep mountain. I almost flip over but you were there to help steady my bike. Thanks....

I am the littlest one and obviously the slowest. All take turns riding with me until the urge to speed up the mountain takes them away. That's ok, I am enjoying the scenary.

You keep checking up on all us girls to make sure we are safe and having a good time. We really appreciate that.

JR gets to the top first followed by you and WAT. JDMac and JL helps bring in the rest of the troop.

At the top we see what takes our breathe away. Lake Tahoe, one of California's beautiful sights. In a distance we can see Yosemite....is that 1/2 Dome?

For a moment our problems disappear. The awesome beauty of God's creation around us makes our biggest problem seem miniscual. For now we can enjoy what man was meant to enjoy, the beautiful earth.

Here each of us takes some time to reflect and make a promise to ourselves and each other.

E, here is my thoughts and promise for you:

Dear E, you have been a fellow MBer, friend and like to a bro' to me in my time of need. For that I am forever grateful.

As your friend, I wish you well on your journey through life. Though hard as it has been, I have faith that happier times are ahead.

I sooo much want you to be fulfilled and happy. Not just with anyone but with the right person. As your fellow MBer and friend, I know that as long as you have patience along with a clear mind and a calm heart, that time of happiness will come. I can't say when but I am sure it will come.

Til that time, my bro' I want you to keep your heart pure. What has happened in the past should stay there. Learn from your past to improve your future. 2 boys are really counting on you. You have smart boys. They are right to count on you and I am not trying to give you the guilt trip. Know that you have time to make the right choices. The smart choices.

Prepare your heart so that when the right person comes, you will be ready. I'd better stop so others can share their thoughts and feelings.

Luv,
L.

There's a lodge at the top and lunch is ready. Smells good. Yum.... all this riding really worked up an appetite. Did you like your roast beef sandwhich?

After taking in all the beauty here, we start to head back down. This time we have to hurry it up a bit, we have 1 hour and 15 minutes to get back. It will be dark soon.

It is much easier to ride down but it is also easier to tip over. You guys make sure us girls don't lose our balance.

You and JDMac race down the hill. You win. Yeah!!! JD says he will challenge you next time. It feels good to see this group get along sooo well. Also feels good to know we are enjoying ourselves and want to get together again.

At the end of the day we get back and put the equipment away. It was a looong but fun day. The ride, company and scenary was awesome.

Let's do this again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All of us return to our individual homes happier for the experience. It didn't fix any problems we currently have but it envigors our need to move forward. We are not abandoned in life. There is more to life than living with the pain of an A or As.

As we individually reflect on ourselves and each other, we see an inner strength that will endure.

Pull on that inner strength, E. I know it is there. I know it is.

Hugz,
L.

Wow Orchid! Thanks for letting me join in on the journey at the mountain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K: I don't use icq on my computer anymore, in fact, I totally deleted it, and don't remember my acct number... but have msn and yahoo. On msn I'm topie25@hotmail.com and yahoo is iamtopaz72.

Karen

Dear 'empty'.

I read this in "God's Little Promise Book"

"Hope is grabbing the hand of God in the fog of life and letting Him lead you through."

It is hard for you to know if this is a turning point time in your life; whether to keep trying to save your marriage or to let your marriage go and move on.
However, trust in the Lord and don't give up on HOPE for a better tomorrow.

Sincerely, Sarah

E,

Was my journey that bad? I know it was not as beautiful as yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Topie,
If you and others could post your 'thoughts and promises' for E, it w/b great.

Hugz,
L.

Hugs & prayers, E.

Cali

Orchid:

E asked me to post that he is unable to respond to your wonderful message at this time. For some reason he cannot log in.

He will post as soon as he can figure it out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (edited to add: figure out how to log on here... NOT figure out your story! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Karen

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>