see the post I bumped up for you, "oops" is this the fog? New research says "yes"

I direct this post to you to help explain the addiction aspect.

Please tell us if this makes sense to you.

WAT

When I first read your thread, I had my blow torch ready. You certainly came here with the "I double dog dare you to help me" attitude. Since you are a bit past that I hope you stay for your own sake.

You, as well as your therapist, realize you have a problem: depression. I think you are intelligent enough to understand that the affairs your are having is similar to the relief an alcoholic experiences after a binge/blackout. Many people "self-medicate" in different ways...the bottom line is to escape from their abyss of depression.

The fact that you experience little or no guilt surrounding your dangerous behavior is proof of the degree your depression effects you. You know your behavior is reckless, you said so yourself. You need to explore why you are so willing to risk the life you built for moments with no promise. I understand in the short-term the idea of any sort of relief is better than the bleakness but believe me just as with any other "addictive remedy" relief becomes harder to achieve.

It is not your marriage, your wife, these girlfriends, your job, or your age that is the problem...they are contributing factors but the bottom line is the problem you have is YOU. The symptom is the infidelity. I think it is very wise that your therapist is looking at your problem more broadly. To conquer your emotional problems you will need the support of a woman whose loyalty and love lie with you. In this way MB will help you. You must help yourself with the other issues.

If you do not, your girlfriend addiction will transform into one addiction after another...and relief will become non-existant.

I have suffered from depression all my life, I have been diagnosed OCD, and I am a BS-of a serial cheater.

Reread what you have written, some would say you do not care about your wife...that may be true...but you certainly don't care about yourself either (very common) You care about the escape, the relief, survival from moment to moment. You can live your life...not just survive it.


well wishes,


ayslyne

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: ayslyne ]</small>

robertinboat,

I see this thread going in a bad direction. I know you are still reading and learning as you go but I have yet to see you mention much about your W. So far it has been all about you and what makes you feel better.

Posters have posed many questions to you that you are coveniently avoiding. While you are trying to decide whether or not to continue seeking out "girlfriends" your W is left in the dark and is being deceived by your selfishness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my short experience I realize its only a matter of time till I am discovered. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By not telling your W of your situation you are displaying your disrespect for her. You are not allowing her to make her own decisions.

I think you are giving yourself way too much credit for being able to make ANY sound decision given your admitted state of mind.

Conversely, you don't give your W the credit she deserves to make her own decisions regarding your situation and the state of your M.

The two of you, together with your doctor and the abundance of information at this website could have you on your way to marital recovery.

One of the MB concepts is to expose the A as soon as possible. This helps to create the atmosphere for reconciliation. You have the opportunity before you to do just that by telling your W everything and recommitting to the M.

Continuing to lie will only dig you in deeper than you already are.

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Ark we are not going to agree on alot but I have decided to listen and go thru the articles on here.

what aren't we agreeing on exactly....

ark

Thanks WAT.......that article has done more to enlighten me than anything I have read. It not only explains alot of what I have experienced but also things I have seen happen with others.

BA your points are well taken. As far as BW goes, Im too new to know what information I should have presented but I can say this....I have nothing bad to say about her. She has been a faithful wife and friend. We let the passion fade for too long but I accept the brunt of that. Theres alot more to this that I didnt cover as it's so in- depth.

I was one of those people that everyone can identify with.....I got involved with a sport and lived - breathed it every spare minute for too many years. Locally, everyone that knows me identifies me with it. Thru all this she has supported me 100% and was the first to argue if someone questioned the time I spent doing it.

I have been very passionate about it and I think she was proud if it. She recently told me that she had stayed away from joining me in it because she thought she would be in the way! Meanwhile I had some disappointment that she wouldnt go along once in a while. This has been real progress I think.

So where am I now?

I need to find out if I agree that stopping this mess is the right thing to do.

I need to understand why I dont feel (overly)guilty.

I need to continue to visit, read and take the criticism.

I need to address my tendency for addictions and find out more about that......my doc doesnt tell me things......hes asks me things........which seems to work on me better than the ramrod method.

He asked me on my first visit if I felt like I did some things that were ritualistic. At some point I told him I noticed I seemed to jump from one vice to another. Last summer I suddenly lost interest in the sport that I had commited my entire life to. This is when the urge to roam suddenly became uncontrolable.

I have just recently gotten my confidence back and regained interest in the sport. Maybe that will be a good thing.....at some more reasonable level.

Im anxious to see how this plays out and have promised myself I will make myself come here at least weekly regardless of which path I choose.

RIB,

I couldn't help laughing when I saw your most recent post with...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to understand why I dont feel (overly)guilty </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's called narcissismm

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to continue to visit, read and take the criticism. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">come back anytime.

cwmac

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Robert,

From what you posted, your sudden changes in your life shows there was an unbalance that eventually caused to almost give it all up. Think and think hard, where do you think you would really be if you just threw it all away? Then think where would your family be if you did the same to them? Is it right or fair?

Not meant to give you a guilt trip, that's life and it's choices. Do some of us wish we could just run away from it all? When you had those ONS, did it really help you become a better person?

My H was depressed also. His depression is a family trait. His bro was schizophrenic and commited suicide by jumping off an overpass and onto oncoming traffic. His actions caused trauma for his family and those in the accident. His sisters are bipolar and his mom also has issues in creating chaos. So he may have been headed towards depression with lots of hereditary assistance. But ONS and full blown A's w/a psycobabble OW sure didn't make his problems go away. But his withdrawal was hard. Very very hard.

You Robert have the chance NOT to learn it the hard way. You have already betrayed your family but you have the chance to make it right now. It is vital to remove those selfish tendancies growing within your heart. But the needs of your family ahead of your own. Find greater happiness in giving than in receiving.

Please read the following books: Surivinng an Affair, His Needs/Her Needs and Givers/Takers. All are by Dr W. Harley.

Take th Emotional Needs Questionnaire and read the concepts section above.

I think that is a good place to start. Robert, if you are really interested in making your life happy for you and your family, you need to refocus.

It is sooo sad to see intelligent persons throw their lives away. Living in lies and deceit which eventually will be uncovered. Not a matter of if as it is a matter of when.

You can benefit from reading and applying the good stuff.

Here's a fact: A mm who has gf's has found trouble.

L.

Day 4 if I am counting right.

This morning I did some reading here. Also re-read this post. Saw a few things that caught my eye.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I never had problems being unfaithful for 20 years and never had emotional problems. Thats not to say there werent issues and we have a few i'm sure.

One day I just sort of "snapped". At first I was very depressed, would walk out to my car and break down in tears as I opened the door to go to work...........no idea why. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After reading about the addiction concept I am starting to think my previous theory was about as wrong as could be.

I am beginning to think things weren't "normal" .........I just didn't see any of this. I have been thru a series of addictions - drugs, alcohol, smoking, my excess attention to my sport......... on and on.

Recently I gave up caffeine as I was addicted and it was affecting me. My fascination with the instant messengers was the the next addiction and I ignored that even as I saw my personality change drastically. This all occured about the same time, my depression, use of the instant messengers, eventual escalation to meeting women for real and what is referred to here as "the fog".

This is all kind of cynical as I always looked down my nose at people with emotional problems and thought my marriage was great(quite unaware of what I was doing). These recent months have really enlightened me and been quite humiliating.

I have decided to have a little cooling off period and see how things go. Like someone here said, I am no state to make decisions right now.

It sounds like I need to deal with my overall tendency to develop addictions, not just trading the present one for a new one which is how I have done things before.

Again I want to thank those that have expressed opinions even as I resisted.

Robert - when's your next doc appointment? Is he aware of your other addictive tendencies?

Is your "sport" related to the "boat" in your name? If so, perhaps we have something in common - but I refer to mine as a passion rather than an addiction. Maybe just a matter of degree - or denial on my part? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT

Wat he lets me decide how often I visit and I am going to drop back in.

And yes...its hard to say what is passion, obcession or addiction. Its one of those sports where you have to put your time in if you want to succeed. I'm angling with my answer but I'm sure you figured it out.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: robertinboat ]</small>

Ah, yes - not the one I was thinking of, but I'm hooked on that one as well.