thanks th.

justin explorer, i really appreciate what you are saying but there is no way i can expect him to accept what you are saying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> at least not right now.

right now he is just devestated, he is believing nothing, he can't imagine ever being intimate with me again (i know someone will say, it is a good sign that he must be on some level considering staying with me). He feels so useless and worthless. that by doing this, i was rejecting him completely because there was nothing good in him. i tried telling him it was all about MY flaws, not his and that it was his love and his beauty that pulled me out of my despair. he was unable to believe any of what i was saying. my only hope is that God touches his heart and gives him strength.

FL,
I have and will continue to pray for you and your H. I know and understand your pain. I know you feel the weight of your past failure. When we are in the depths of a shattered dream, God is there reaching out to you. He will never leave you. He brings the love and forgiveness that our beleif in Jesus Christ has made possible.

God has a better dream for you and your H. That dream is grounded in your relationship with God. God works through every circumstance in our lives to bring us closer to Him. He does not say we won't go through trials of life, but He does say He will be with us the entire time. Keep your hope alive and ask God for His grace and strenth to help you. It is when we are weak through trials that His strength is delivered to us.

One thing that sticks out in my mind is that God had to tear my M down so he could rebuild it in His way. I have to remember it will take time and patience to rebuild it. Stay focused on rebuilding your M. You may have to do it without the help of your H for a while, but you won't be alone.

Christ's Love,
Roman

thanks roman,

i just pray he will give me a chance to love him now. i will love him no matter what, but i need him to be willing to accept my love.

I put this in God's hands.

FL-- May I suggest something both as a FWW and as a BS?

I had an affair back before there was MB, or the web and my husband really sucked it up and "healed" alone -- he really needed a few things that I either didn't know about or weren't in place.

Does he read? Might it be possible to buy a few books for him and just leave them where he can see them and pick them up when he is ready.

Torn Asunder: Recovering From Extramarital Affairs
by Dave Carder, Duncan Jaenicke

Surviving An Affair
by Willard Harley Jr.

After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful
by Janis A. Spring

and also suggesting this site and other sites that deal with infidelity and healing ( you could even print out a list with the web addresses and leave it with the books)

way2

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Morning FL~

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He feels so useless and worthless. that by doing this, i was rejecting him completely because there was nothing good in him. i tried telling him it was all about MY flaws, not his and that it was his love and his beauty that pulled me out of my despair. he was unable to believe any of what i was saying. my only hope is that God touches his heart and gives him strength </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did he actually say the words, he feels useless and worthless...nothing good in him, etc? Or is that what you're assuming from his response?

Either way, he is severely beaten down right now. Might I suggest, (and maybe you've already done this, but you didn't say), you let him know it was more than just "your flaws". Be more defined, tell him out and out it was your selfishness, your lack of care for anyone else but yourself, etc.

He is now processing whatever it is you told him last night. I know the waiting and the wondering must be agonizing. Give him whatever he needs, as he allows it.

Keep up with the household, that will produce a two fold effect. One, keeps you busy, two, meets one of his needs. Do whatever you can to lighten his load...

Are you still going to the cabin for the weekend? Still planning to take the children?

Hope you're ok as possible. Praying for you and Mike.

~ad

way2, i hesitate to ask him to read anything now. he has been working so hard for so long. i really feel i have no right to ask anything from him. i really don't know what to do right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did he actually say the words, he feels useless and worthless...nothing good in him, etc? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes, those were his words.

i believe i said i was selfish, i'm not sure. i really wanted him to know it was my flaws, not his. his love and his beauty brought me back to life.

i'm am trying to hard not to despair. i'm trying so hard to not conclude he would be so much better off without me. the problem with that is, maybe he would be so much better off without me. and i really want him to be happy.

we didn't talk about if we are still going to lake tonight or not. kids assume we are going.

thanks for the prayers.

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

((((FL))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i'm am trying to hard not to despair. i'm trying so hard to not conclude he would be so much better off without me. the problem with that is, maybe he would be so much better off without me. and i really want him to be happy.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is your demeanor around him? I hope you don't feel you have to be all chipper. Be true with your feelings. He is the one who has been caused pain. Still, you hurt, for causing it. It's ok that he sees your despair. I don't mean in a manner of, "oh poor me, woe is me,...", but because you realize the gravity of it all.

Be open with him about your thoughts.

There is a difference between defending what you did and being honest about your fears.

There is a difference between being demanding in wanting his decisions and letting him know what you hope his decisions will be.

Tell me honestly, do you think he would be better off without you? Why? It wouldn't change the fact you had an A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Originally posted by Cherished:

Actually, the only type of affair you can have without honesty is a one night stand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cherished~

I read this over and over. Do you mean if a spouse has a ONS, they do NOT need to confess it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is your demeanor around him? I hope you don't feel you have to be all chipper. Be true with your feelings. He is the one who has been caused pain. Still, you hurt, for causing it. It's ok that he sees your despair. I don't mean in a manner of, "oh poor me, woe is me,...", but because you realize the gravity of it all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i am not chipper, i think he sees my despair. although considering how much he is hurting, he may not be capable of seeing anything outside of his pain. i don't think i could.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Tell me honestly, do you think he would be better off without you? Why? It wouldn't change the fact you had an A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">true, but he wouldn't have to continue to see me everyday. how can i be anything but a monster in his eyes? how can it not re-hurt him everytime he sees me?

FL,

You need to remember something. He has only known a few days. If you read or ask the BS's on this board I think you will find that they all were in your H's place and with his feelings right about now. THIS IS NORMAL. He doesn't know this but you do. So have patience and have strength. You don't have to dance around spreading "happy dust", but also realize this is a process and it takes MONTHS yes even YEARS. You are only at a WEEK.

I think you need reconsider what you are telling him about YOUR flaws causing this. It was your thinking and your reaction to his actions that caused this. Why would I mention this? He needs to know that you can and have changed. What has really changed? Stop and think about this.

What has changed is your view of the marriage.
What has changed is your view of him.
What has changed is your realization that you have not handled stress and disappointment well.
What has changed is ...


Do you see what I mean. If those are the things that changed then what that means is that you have changed your thinking, your response to stress, your response to him. Your flaws haven't changed, how you see the world HAS changed. Why do I think he needst to hear this? Well, one thing that BS's almost always feel is that they failed. They were NOT good enough. That they had no control.

In your case specifically, none of those statements are true. Your marriage to your H put you in a situation that you choose to have an A (bad choice as you know). Your H's response to the bad marriage and you pulling away was to change, to act, and ULTIMATELY to completely turn your heart, your perspective, your view of everything around.

He was good enough and is.
He was strong enough and he won.
He was so effective that he turned you completely around and he did not even know what he had done.
HE HAS CONTROL AND CAN BE SURE YOU WILL NOT FAIL HIM. He knows how to do it.

Now I know he won't believe this at first, but keep telling him this, it is the truth.

Finally, you said something that is just plain wrong. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i really feel i have no right to ask anything from him. i really don't know what to do right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do have the right. In fact you have the obligation to ask him and to tell him anything that you feel will save this marriage. Just as he sucked it up and turned you around, you need to suck it up and do your best to save this marriage and show him you love and respect him. You cannot do this hiding behind "I have not right to..."

So FL, keep talking to him, keep loving him, keep asking him questions.

Finally, I think if you are going to be truthful with him then you need to be completely truthful with how you come to be here with him and not already divorced. Write for him your story.

How you decided to have an affair.
How his actions started to change you around.
How your perception of him changed and how it is now.

Use your posts here, for you have alreay chronicled most of it here. Be specific, make it a novel, point out the memorable things he did and said. Tell how they effected you.

FL you have a story to tell and it is HIS story as seen by you for the past two years. He needs to read that as well. It won't turn him around immediately but he will know that you were paying attention, you were and are responding, and that he changed you in very deep ways. You have even become and HONEST woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FL, this is very early in the game, don't withdraw in your pain. Reach out.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: You haven't destroyed him FL, hurt him deeply yes. Make him question himself, yes. But destroy him, I don't think so. A man strong enough to grab hold of your marriage and change it on his own is far to strong to be destroyed. He sort of grabbed you be the back of the neck and turned your life around. You just need to help him heal the wounds.

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

FL,

I can't say it any better than JL. Please listen to him. He is right on as usual.

H is human and has been deeply wounded. There will be scars, but he will heal. I can speak from experience. I worked so hard for so long. I never knew why I could not get through to my W. Now I know. I wish she had come to me first. I really think she would have once the A ran it's course. Healing is occuring after 6 months.

I am still trying to get through to her. But the battle is different now. The A is over and I doubt she would ever go back. She told me she thinks about this every moment of every day. Not him, but what she has done. She has taken responsibility for what she did. She told me she is working on her relationship with her Lord. The bottom line is she is working through her guilt. She has trouble looking me in the eyes. I aviod anything that will make her feel guilt. I don't judge her anymore. I did for a while and even though I stayed quiet, she could sense it. This is all part of the process of healing.

Your H is in a fog of sorts. He is confused and feeling very low. I know how he feels. He will come to a point of decision. You have history on your side. You have a family that would be destroyed if he left. He knows that and I know it will weigh heavily in your favor. I never saw my W as a monster, not ever. You need to work through your guilt while he is working through he feelings. Don't live in defeat. Commit yourself now to rebuilding your M.

The fact that he worked hard to win you back is another reason I think his love for you will overcome the betrayal he is experiencing. I know there were many times I just wanted to give up, but my love for her kept me going. He has that love for you. Seeing you does not remind him of the A. I think you seeing him in pain is adding to your guilt.

Guilt is not productive. Guilt will cripple you. Remorse is good. Repentance is necessary. You are experiencing both. But guilt will destroy you. What he needs is to be rewarded for his pursuit of you. Keep telling him that he did make a difference and that you are greatful that he did not give up on you. Keep showing him your love. Don't even think about giving up. It will penetrate his heart.

He needs time to heal. It will not be allright for a long time. He will have resentment and negative feelings. Take it a day at a time. Do everything you can to keep him there. Keep the family together at all costs. I think taking the kids is good this weekend. They will be a good buffer for both of you. Family love is powerful. Let him see your sorrow, his heart will melt. You mean more to him than anything in this world. You will get past this. He will heal. You will be stronger and have a great M. From this you can form a stronger bond than ever.

Take heart and have patience, patience and more patience. The best way to start the restoration is to act like a wife and support him. Show him how much you love him and need him. He needs you too!

Christ's Love,
Roman

FL~

I really don't think he sees you as a monster do you? Look at the way he's responded so far. Remember...he said he felt worthless, useless, wondered if he was any good since he was rejected? To me, it seems he's trying to figure out what he did, to make you need/want to stray.

If I didn't miss you before the weekend..I hope you are well, and that things go ok this weekend.

Was this week a total bust for you at work?

Take good care,

~ad

just a quick post for me to say we are doing OK. My H really is amazing. we went to lake house just for the one night, we are back now, he is running quick errand.

thanks for those of you that are praying for us. i'll post more sunday night, i don't want to be on computer now.

JL, thanks for your ideas. I am writing in our journal, although he is not reading it at all at the moment. I still intend to keep writing. So it is there for him if he ever wants to read it. I am also trying very hard to say outloud to him what i write. The writing helps me figure out the words and then i have an easier time saying it to him. My biggest struggle is to not let myself get so caught up in feeling guilty because that only takes away from my ability to be there for him, and that is what i really want to be focusing on.

Last night actually turned rather bad. He became very negative and kept asking me over and over how i could have done this for so long. There really was no way to answer his questions very well. I tried my best but mostly all i could say is that i was selfish and it was very wrong of me. i sometimes wonder if he is looking to see if i am going to blame him. he thinks about how hard he kept trying to change himself all the time i was doing this, and telling him that the M was bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i told him once it all started, i just couldn't face the ugilness of what i did so my only other choice was to keep focusing on his flaws still. he is very unsure that this could not happen again. he said, "you confess and suddently i am perfect now, how does that make sense??"

but there is good stuff happening too, both sat and this morning he let me rub his back. we went to church together this morning, i really didn't think he was going and then about 30 min before we were to leave, he told me he was. we held hands thru most of the service.

he has left for his business trip now. he will be home late tuesday. kids and i are about to go back to lake house for one evening. we will be back late tommorow.

the biggest thing happening right now: we are waiting for tests results. i had tests done on friday. i had actually finally decided i had to get theses tests done last month. wanted to go to my dr. she is usually booked way in advance so the appt was finally last friday. i will know results tommorow, hopefully by noon. H Iis very concerned about test results. that is another huge issue for him. I put his life at risk. And he is absoultey right. It is very hard for me to face these things and not feel so completely and uterly worthless.

i had a dream last night, it started out with him and i, it was about all this stuff. but at the end of the dream i turned into Meg Ryan and he turned into Indian Jones (can't remember the actor's name). Meg Ryan shoot herself in the head. needless to say it was a very disturbing dream. now i am NOT saying i am considering suicide, because at this point that would be even more selfish than any other thing i have done. Right before A started, i was having very serious thoughts about suicide, that was a very scary time in my life. i ended on medical leave of absense for 3 months and was in a mental health day program. I am NOT like i was back then but the dream was very disturbing. I did not tell H about dream. I did tell him i had a bad dream, because i woke up with a jolt and that woke him up. but we didn't talk about it.

he is not feeling safe. he asked me to think of ways to ensure there will be no further contact. i asked him if he wanted to have us write him a no contact letter, letting OM know that H knows but he said no. My last note to OM was telling him i was planning on confessing to H and to never contact me again. H wants me to change email and work #. I also suggested changing cell phone number. I really want him to feel safe.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A man strong enough to grab hold of your marriage and change it on his own is far too strong to be destroyed. He sort of grabbed you be the back of the neck and turned your life around. You just need to help him heal the wounds.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i just like reading that over again and again.

roman, i just can't tell you how much your post's mean to me. it helps me so very much. i do believe you and H are very much alike. you give me so much insight on your side of the picture. you are helping me so much to keep the faith. i can never repay you for your help save to let you know what you are doing here. i hear what you mean about guilt vrs remorse. i do believe they are different too. guilt is what i was feeling before i confessed and it had no end. remorse is what i am feeling now, and that can lessen with time. thanks.

ad, you have been a wonderful friend too. thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL

He will be all over the charts for awhile. Go ahead on your own and change cell numbers...a nice surprise.

My wife freaked shortly after D-day and took a hammer and right in front of me smashed her secret cell phone. As luck would have one of the business cell phones would crap out the next week so we sure could have used that cell phone...oh well.

How can you make him feel safe...

Well there are countless ways but I strongly suggest that you get articles or books on how to affair proof your marriage. Read up on them and when he gets back home try and impliment some of the suggestions that fit your situation. Seeing you be proactive will help feel secure.

The rest time and consistent loving behavior on your part.

Good luck.

FL,
It is good to hear from you. Thanks for your kind words. I wish there was a way for you to spend more time together with H. you both seem stable right now, just remember this is an unstable time for both of you. It is good that you are cooperating with him and letting his anger come out. Please try to avoid being defensive and if you feel defensive, just don't say anything. After he vents, just keep reaching out to him. Keep trying to put the A behind you. It will be a very painful time for both of you and there is no way to go but through it.

Please be careful about the details you tell him. Be open and honest and answer his questions. There are things that occured that I know about that haunt me. At some point he will be a better judge of what he wants to know. Just don't lie to protect his feelings. On the other hand, he may think wrongly about it. I think you need to fill in the blanks for him. 7 months after dday, I look back at comments my W made during the A that now make sense to me. I understand alot more about A's than I did before. The how's and why's. If he was like me, he might of thought you were having an A, but probably dismissed the notion because like me he did not know the how's and why's of them. The hardest part is the deception because like my W you were leading a separate life with another man. It is hard on the ego, so you need to continue to build him up. Tell him and others what you like about him and what appeals to you.

Stay focused on keeping your family together. Do everything you can to keep him in the home. Make plans and do things together. The trust issue will take time. The only way he will trust you again is for you to prove it. Your consistant loving behavior will be a big part of it. You must beleive in the power love brings to your M and family. Keep giving it time and giving him time. Learn from the pain and keep seeking God and he will reveal Himself to you. I really think his love for you will win.

Christ's Love,
Roman

i wish we had more time together too, i hate having him be gone so much right now.

i actually tried posting about an hour or so ago but the site had some problem and what i wrote was lost. so i logged off and wrote in our journal instead. (although he has told me he is not reading it) then he finally called. he had called at about 7pm to say he was about to go out to dinner with a bunch of people there and that he would call when he got back to his room. i had finished writing in our journal and had just closed my eyes, figuring he was not going to call me after all when he finally did call, at 1am. It sounds like they were all just having a good time. he will be home tomorow at 8pm.

i'm feeling rather lost right now. i know i need to get some sleep and i will. i realize this is going to take a long time and i am able to hang in there.

i realize he and i are at much different places with recovery. for me, it really started back in nov when i finally decided that i would not continue my destructive behaviour. it still took a while but i have had many months to feel stronger and stronger.

For him the entire 2 1/2+ yrs has just become clear 8 days ago.

test results did not come back today, hopefully i will find out first thing in the morning.

i fear i am not allowing him to express his anger adequatley. it's not that i am asking him to not be mad at me, but because i am so remorseful, i think that deflats his anger before he can express it all and i realize he must have extremely intense anger. i wrote this concern of mine in our journal (although, he is not reading the journal right now). does anyone have any thoughts on how i can help him express his anger safely.

FL,

Time and consistancy is what will help him. Try not to let him have his imagination take over. Be an open book and don't keep any secrets. Even if it's a suprise for him.

Anything you do on your own and of your own feel will; will give him encouragement. Spread out over time and always protecting him will be the best thing for him.

As you know, I continue to keep the two of you in my prayers. You get good advice here so I avoid putting my two cents worth in most of the time. But anytime you want to know what he may be feeling or going through I'll helpif you want.

Bless you.

S&C

FL,
You seem to be doing all the right things. I'm sure you are wondering what is going on in his mind right now. I can recall my mindset shortly after dday and unless I was intensely focused on something, all my thoughts were on what my W did. I was angry, resentful, depressed but most of all determined to stay in the M. I can remember moments that were so angry, that I just wanted to lash out. I hated life and blamed myself. I had anger fantasies. My human nature told me to get out, to get even. I was deeply wounded and hurting bad. Working was difficult. I lost business. My W had stolen 2 years of my life. Eventually, I saw the biggest issue for me was to not let the anger become bitter.

I am not telling you these things to make you feel guilty, but rather to give you an idea of what he may be thinking. So what can you do to help him? Just love him and encourage him at evry turn. I really beleive a consistant loving behavior on your part is the key. I know you can't help but to worry about your future. Remember, he has shown great strength when he kept pursuing you when he was rejected over a long time. You can have the same strength and resolve.

Try to avoid acting out of guilt. You will have to work through it, but it doesn't have to control you. Instead, act out of love and compassion. In all the anger, I had many moments of compassion for my W. Even though she hurt me, I still loved her deeply. My love and compassion for her kept me from bitterness. If your H is like me, he is venting. I vented to God alot. I knew venting to my W would bring guilt to her. I did not want that. I could and still do see her pain and guilt. I don't bring it to her, it is self imposed.

I believe he loves you much deeper than you can imagine. Stay together at all costs. Don't ever give up hope. I remember my W telling me to let her have it, to vent on her. I refused to do that. I wanted to, but I could not. Maybe he doesn't want to do that to you. He will eventually see you differently. Not every thought will focus on the A. It just takes alot of time, love and patience.

Just some encouragement, It will get better. I was not doing well on Friday. For some reason Friday's are bad for me. Over the weekend, i kinda pulled back and just showed love and a positive attitude. I had a great response from my W. She even told me she loved me without me saying it first to my face. This is the first time since dday, 7 months. All I am saying is you need to be strong in your faith and beleive in the healing power of God's love. It really works, but it takes time. You will see this miracle too. You can do this. With God's grace, you will endure it. Just keep loving him.

Christ's Love,
Roman

FL: congratulations again. Now the hard part starts.

You have received great advice. The one thing I really wanted my wife to say to me was: "It was your love and hard work that won me back." I felt like a failure, when I was trying so hard to be a success in her eyes. I imagine your H feels similarly. If that quote above is true for you, tell him over and over.

Other than that, I agree with others who have emphasized openness, honesty and showing him consistency in your words and actions.

Your biggest problem may be your own guilt. In order to have a great marraige you need to have an equal partnership. If you feel like the "less equal" partner, that can be difficult. If you keep quiet when he does things that hurt you, because you deserve it, you will just slide farther and farther backwards, and your current love for him will die.