i just don't know what to say any more. i thank you guys so much for your replies and encouragement. i just feel that i can't go back on my word. i said that i would be here for him and would love him no matter what, and i do and i have to see this through.

i wish i was a strong as you guys say but i'm getting a little scared for my H. i'm afraid of what he might do to himself, maybe not tomorrow but some time down the road. i can see his self-destruction going to start. what do i do? i do want him to be happy but i want him to be w/me too. i've read that is sometimes is what needs to happen is the WS falling on their face, Lord knows that's what happened to me and my H's has said so that this is what it took for me to realize or change and it never had to be that way.

i feel so guilty that i'm not letting him go because it's what he wants and he does deserve to be happy after what i have put him through the past several years and he was always looking for just some spark or something to hold onto that i loved and cared for him and i never showed it until now. am i too consumed w/the drive that if he gives me a second chance things will be better?

how much more can i apologize for the way i've been, and say i understand the way he is feeling, that i love him and want to fight for our M, when all he wants is to be happy and get on w/his life? how much more hurt does he have to go through when he says nothing i can do will make him come back to me? am i really prepared to deal with everything the way i say i am? how can i do anything when i live in another state?

i guess now my hopes are leaning more towards that the OW won't be able to handle things or the turmoil my H is going through and she will be the one to break it off. there was never any secrecy or lies of the A to the people here where we live. her parents know, his friends know, they didn't try to hide it.

thanks for reading and just wish all our pain would stop. prayers to all of you.

RR you need to stop beating yourself up, I did this for a long time. It's just not good for you, you have to realize that our WS are being very selfish right now. You have to work on yourself now that is your #1 priority. Stay strong, you'll be ok. Read my new thread there is info there on my sit.

^ for furnitureman

Roughroad -

Give us an update. How are you doing? How are things? Any progress?

heroswife, thanks for asking, i guess it still amazes me that although people are going through rough times themselves that they can still go past that and ask about others. i'm trying to do that, maybe because it helps me to try and helps others, don't know.

as far as update, don't know where to start or if there is anything note worthy to report. my H has changed the password of his email account he knew i had access to, what prompted this i don't know. i posted a thread called "i'm scared of what this means" i hadn't anticipated he would do this and i guess right now i'm hanging on the idea that he's feeling "guilty" and has to try and start hiding some things from me. is that really the case? don't know, but it's kind of been one of the first things he's done to show me that he's really decided to move on (besides the A).

i've had 2 counseling sessions w/SH. you can see how those session went on the thread of "2nd session w/SH and the plan." i'm starting to have real doubts as to whether i have the stamina to see this through. how do i know that what i'm doing (fighting for my M, plan A, etc.) is really what God wants me to do? i'm trying to have patience but what am i supposed to do? SH said to keep in contact w/my H but what exactly does that mean. only talk to him when he calls me? do i just call him or email him every once in awhile and say i'm thinking about him? do i actively participate in the sell of our house? i guess one of my biggest battles righ now (in myself) is whether i should talk to my FIL or not. i do not know for certain that my FIL about the A, the only person that i know knows is my MIL but i really can't be assured that she's told my FIL, i don't even know if my H knows that she knows.

SH basically said his feelings were that all interestesd parties probably knew and that me calling my FIL would probably not be helpful right now. my turmoil is that i keep thinking about it and that people keep saying that you have to expose, and is God keeping that thought in me because that's what i need to do? my mom says that she just doesn't think that calling his FIL is a good idea even though the whole idea is to expose. she thinks my H will see that as tattletelling and that someday down the road if/when he decides he wants to work things out will he want to w/someone (me) that hurt him by telling his dad? his dad has already been hurt that my H didn't marry someone who was catholic and that my H has told him he isn't catholic anymore. so will this A even be a surprise or will he even say anything to my H?

i just think i need to know where my FIL stands, but why do i need to know? because maybe i would hear something i don't want to hear. that maybe our M was doomed from the beginning. my mom says that maybe i could talk to my MIL since i did tell her, it wouldn't be like exposing it to her. but where will my questions stop? at do you guys support me? or at does your H (my FIL) know that WH is having a sexual R outside our M? will she even tell me the truth?

i'm also working on approaching my H about talking to SH. I'm scared because i think he won't (i think it's 50/50 whether he would or not) my mom seems to not think he would but says she really doesn't know. me and SH agree that the approach should be on the premise that my H talking to SH would be to help me because i'm struggling w/going passed this point and it would be helpful to SH to talk to my H. So okay, when do i ask him? what if he says no, what do i say? how can i keep from getting my hopes up if he does agree to talk to SH?

trying to seek God's will but finding it difficult just to keep things in perspective.

Roughroad -

You are having to make some tough decisions right now. I can see that. I'm wondering why SH thought it would be a bad idea to tell FIL? I'm sure he has his reasons though.

My FIL was the very first person I told. I found the email at work around 11:00 and I drove straight to my house and called my FIL. I have a very close relationship with my FIL. He is like a father to me. I didn't even consider calling anyone else.

I will say that my FIL did the best thing in the world to help us from the very beginning. He called my H and told him to come home. He said your wife is at home and she knows everything. He then told my H that if he didn't make this right by me he could kiss him goodbye. He told my H that as far as he was concerned he no longer had a son. Simple as that.

That shook my H's world and he came home. It was very tough the first few months. My H didn't speak to his father. Even now, 5 months later, they do not talk like they used to. It's not from loss of love but more humiliation on my H's part. We are taking a vacation with him and his fiance' in June.

So Roughroad, I think you need to decide what is best to do in your situation. Did you FIL or MIL ever have an A (that you know of?) That will make all the difference in the world.

I think you should ask your H if he wants to have a session with SH. I think it would be very helpful for both of you. I would pose this as something to help you and see if he bites. Chances are he will. SH can help you lift the fog. It is fog, Roughroad. I hope you believe that.

You are amazing and I'm so proud of you for the progress you have made. Hang in there girl. Hang in there.

Sending my love.

thanks heroswife, i guess i'm just starting to doubt what i'm doing or not doing. a little more background info. my H was catholic when we got m and I am baptist. i thought it would make both sides happy by getting M by a JOP. my H was stationed in the state I was living in when we met. he got orders later that year to go to korea for a year and he asked me to M him shortly before he left. he came back to the state i lived in after he had been in korea for 6 months and we got M (2 hours in fact after he landed). Only some of my family and friends were at our little ceremony. i had a dress, he had a tux, and we had pictures, that was about the extent of it. all his family lived in another state. but from what i understand his father wouldn't have come to any ceremony of any family member if it wasn't a catholic ceremony.

of course i didn't realize these things until after the fact. i'd only met one sister of his before we got M. so i met his family for the first time on our honeymoon. of course they were very welcoming and nice and didn't treat me as anything different than as a daughter/sister in law. however, since day 1 we have never been allowed to sleep in the same room at his parents house. Don't think his mom would care much but his dad was pretty firm on that. i put up with it for a few years but finally decided to make a stand sort of speak and we started staying at a hotel. last year was the first year that we actually received an anniversary card (our 10th anniversary) from his parents.

i've not been real close w/his family but not unclose either, make sense? my H has steadily grown apart from his family partly because he told them (his dad) that he isn't catholic any more. they have still never treated me any differently other than a part of the family and as their son's wife. my H doesn't really talk to his family because his mom lays guilt trips on him (she does everybody) and he didn't like the way his sisters treated their husbands. boy how much this really hits home now. plus i'm sure he's avoided them even more since he started to get to know this OW.

so, I haven't heard from his family since all of "this happened." my MIL did send my mom an easter card that pretty much said that she hoped to still stay in contact w/me but that she sounded like she resigned to the fact that me and my H are done. The only person i know for a fact knows about the A is his mom. she came down to our house the night i went to the hospital when i took a bottle of pills and she was saying how he wasn't worth it she didn't care if he was her son or not that i'm better than this. i told it would be easier to take if there wasn't someone else but there is. she said she didn't know about that, that he hadn't told them anything. i honestly think it's about 50/50 whether she has told my FIL or not. and i never told my H that I told his mom and maybe he doesn't know that she knows. I really don't have any idea anymore.

my plan for now is to at some point this week talk to my H about talking w/SH to help me (nudge nudge, wink wink). if he agrees (hope to have talked to him about by friday)then everything will be on hold. i'll probably call his family on sunday (easter) and talk to his mom if no one else and try to find out what's going on at their end. if my H agrees to talk to SH i'll probably leave the conversation w/his mom at that. If he doesn't agree, then i will probably try and talk to my FIL and find out what he knows and if he is supportive of me at all. i'm going to also have another session w/SH this week. and see what he thinks about this (among other things).

like you said, i'm sure SH has his reasons that he doesn't think that talking to my FIL would help much, probably because neither one of us (me or my H) have a close relationship w/the FIL, and right now i'm supposed to be painting a good picture of myself. but what kind of picture am i painting by not talking to his family? i just can't help but think does my H and this OW really think his family is going to welcome the OW with open arms, or has my H resigned to the fact he will probably be ostracized from his family. I just don't know. thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

^ for heroswife

OK, when you do call he MIL this weekend. If the topic comes up and it will.

Just confess to her how much you love him. I'm sure you already have. But I made very sure to tell my MIL and FIL that I loved my H more than anything in this world. I told them that I would support him through anything.

They already knew that...watching me go through the war while he was on the front line was enough to show them that I was dedicated to him...if they weren't already convinced.

I think they best thing for them to see now is your dedication to this man. Try to express to her how much her sons means to you.

She's seen how far down you can go with your sucide attempt. She knows the pain was terrible at that time and that her son caused this.

Chances are she might be feeling some guilt right about now. As a mother I will tell you that it is impossible to be the mother of a child that has done this to someone else and not feel guilt.

I'd bet the FIL already knows. It might not help you if you did tell him. He sounds like a fruit to me but I'm sure people think I'm a fruit as well. I mean he wouldn't let you sleep in the same room as your H. That's just odd. I'm not calling names I'm just pointing out the fact that it sounds like we are dealing with a "bird of a different feather here".

Any MIL would love to have a DIL that would fight for their son the way you have fought for her's.

Do you know if the MIL or FIL ever had an A?

RR,

I did not have good relationship with in laws. But I called them to tell them the A.

At first, MIL kept telling me that I must have done something wrong so that H would have an A. Then she told me the unhappy stories between us long time ago. I appologized to her and listen to her. She said that she forgive me, but still remember them. I sincrely appologixe to her.

Then I called her more often just to report the situation to her, she kept saying that there is nothing she could do to stop H's A. But she told me to be a good wife. I thank her for listening.

She actually called H and told him to stop. I don't know how much that could help. But I called her to thank her.

Finally, last weekend, I talked to her again. She told me that H's mind is not clear now, I am the only one who has to take care of the family. I need to take care of myself and the kids. H will be back, but it takes time. I almost cried when I heard that.

Sis told me that this incident has at least two positive side affects now, it brings me closer to sis and MIL. I would say two more, I am closer to GOD and I see how I need to change myself.

So be sincere, just to report the situation, no jusdgement when you talk. Good luck.

thanks guys for the replies.
heroswife, i can almost say without a doubt that my MIL and FIL never had an A. just because the way his dad is about his faith (i know that my sound corny right now) and the way his mother is. now we all know that given the right circumstances anyone is vulnerable to an A but I just don't think that happened in their M but then again i never thought i would be where i'm at either.

i have my 3rd session w/SH on thursday. i went ahead and set up an appt on monday for my H just in case he agrees to talk to SH. but i'm not getting my hopes up and will talk to SH how/what to say if my H says "no." I'm just going to let them (IL's) lead the conversation and not make any demands or say what i need but like you said that i'll just convey my love for their son and that i want our M to be saved and will do what I can to help that happen.

RR-

You are doing all the right things. I hope you know that. I hope it brings you comfort to know that you are taking all the right steps to save your M.

Stay on this path and you will be in recovery before you know it.

Hang in there. Continue to support him in the ways he will allow you to. Stay away from LB's. It doesn't sound like you do much of that anyway.

I'm worried that you do not really express anger yet. I think that will come when you see recovery in your headlights. I wasn't prepared for that. Prepare yourself for the anger...just in case it catches you off guard.

You are a strong person. Your state of mind right now is admirable.

well since you brought it up, i'm surprised that i'm not really angry. my mom cannot believe that i'm not angry but says it's wonderful to see the Lord working in me that way. I've always pretty much had a temper, i've yelled/screamed, threw things, hung up the phone a lot. now granted i really haven't done those things for the past couple of years until i confronted my H about the A (that was before I came here). i'm not really sure how I feel a lot of the time (a rollercoaster every minute it seems). I guess part of what is keeping me from being angry is the fact that i contributed to the situation we're in.

i had a truly wonderful H and i just took him for granted, did what i wanted to do, and never saw the writing on the wall that he was trying to tell me we were in trouble (although it was very subtle mind you). i guess too that even though he says that he gave me chance after chance, year after year, and that this is what it took for me to wake up and it never had to be that way, that a part of me says "did he really give me a chance?" because if i didn't know how unhappy he was and how important HN/HN or even what they were then how could i have changed or better yet, returned to the woman he married?

if i'm mad at all it's that he won't give me or us a 2nd chance because of the OW and how happy she make him. but if what i've been doing in our M (about the last 7 years) has made him vulenrable then i've got to do the opposite right? that means no LB's (AO, DJ, etc.) and so i guess that means keeping my anger really in check. i'm just doing the best that i can right now. i realize that if/when we go into recovery i'll be frustrated beyond belief but at the same time i can only really work on the now and think of what i do now will be realized down the road, which really is just him giving me/us another chance.

well, enough of that for now, gotta go, thanks Heroswife for continuing to check on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RR-

It sounds to me like you are taking too much of the blame here. Yes you helped to create an env where your H had an A. I'm not sure what he means by giving you chances though.

Did he come out and say you aren't filling my ENs? Did he tell you he was starting to have feelings for someone else?

You can't take full blame for this. You can however assure him that you will do whatever it takes to make him the happiest man alive.

You have acknoledged that you weren't the perfect wife before the A. You can now make sure he understands that you have the tools and support to better understand how to make him happy and you will do just that.

You've learned a lot about yourself with this situation. I think you are a lot stronger then you give yourself credit for.

chances, i guess in a way that sounds corny but i say that because of what he has told me, that he "sucked it up" every time i turned him down for sex, that i wasn't affectionate like i used to be, that i did everything i wanted to do and everytime he wanted to say something he just bit his tongue, that he continually was in a "fear" state about anything he would do/did or say/said in the chance it might hurt me or piss me off. that he he often thought that i was just staying married out of convenience and that we were just basically living as roommates.

of course he brings things up that happened in the past like how we went through a 4 month period w/o having sex (and we were in the same house not separated by the military), that he actually kept track of this, how he kept track for 2 month period of whether or not i said i (me) love you, that i always said it in response to him but never initiated it. how i just continually put other things in front of him, even sleep.

yes, i am taking a lot of blame for this and i don't think i will get really over that until/if he gives us another chance. i don't dwell on it all the time but we have had some really "good" talks since this came out in the open and he just keeps saying how it didn't have to be this way, how if i had just told him the things that i have said now he would have known i loved him but now he just can't go back, and that's a lot to take when you know you've contributed to the situation.

i have really let myself go over the years, i cracked a rib back in oct 97 and gained 20lbs in 2 months and it has been downhill ever since (over 190lb in jan 04). it has something that i have been really really ashamed of (my weight) for a long time and i just let it push me away from my H. but i would just be saying and thinking that things will change when i get out of the military when i am not so stressed out all the time, etc. even though he wanted to be intimate, i just couldn't believe that he wasn't repulsed by me or was embarrased to be w/me in public, so in turn i didn't approach him and he didn't really me, just became a viscous cycle. when we did, it was just automatic and not passionate at all.

now I look at what i did to myself and my M, something that has been so easy (losing weight) since i found out about the A, kept me from being close to my H on so many different levels and i used it as a crutch because i thought he would always be there.

he never told me he was having feelings for someone else. i discovered it through an email and drove all night till i got to our house and confronted him. i have been living in another state since last october due to a job i accepted. he was supposed to be joining me in may of this year after he graduated from college. of course it was another decision i made without him or i made the decision ours. he met the OW in a class last fall and it developed from there. now of course looking back there were signs, but i just attributed it to stress because i know how that can affect you (or maybe that's what i wanted to believe) and this is what he attributed his "behavior" to as well.

Just pray (i know you all are already) for my H and all the WS to open their heart to us BS again and that my H will agree to talk to SH. on a side note, as of today i've lost 31.8 lbs since 1/27/04 of course all but 4lbs has been since i found out about the A. why didn't i think my H or my M was worth it before? i don't know.

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

^

Hi RR,

I feel for you and I can sort of emphasize what you went through. Unfortunately, we cannot change what happened to us in the past; we can take responsibility and learn from it, but don't automatically assume that you need to bear all of the burden in this. When I read your post, I can sense that you were very depressed during this time. People always say, just loose the weight; it should be so easy. Well, sometimes it is not easy and many factors can contribute to this. It is hard to feel sexy when you do not feel good about yourself and your body.

Let me tell you something about myself... I consider myself pretty good-looking (at least this is what people tell me all the time), I am 5.3 and I weigh about 105 pounds, I wear a 36C and I have a J-Lo butt (according to my husband). I did not feel sexy or worthy of my H's desire. I suffered for quite a few years from a condition called vaginismus. This causes involuntary spasms of the vaginal muscles which can make intercourse either very painful or impossible. This caused a lot of stress in my marriage as you can imagine. I'm pretty creative in the bedroom and also very sexual and against the odds we were able to have a good sexlife for many years, but deep down my H was not satisfied. I struggled with this condition and little by little I lost more and more self-esteem. Early on in our marriage, I started seeking medical help for my problem. Most doctors had NO idea what was wrong with me. Physically everything seemed fine and I did not have problems with libido or arousal which made things even more frustrating for ME. After a few years, I started feeling very depressed and started withdrawing from my H. I felt like I was the only woman in the world who could not do something that came so natural to many other women. I was devastated. Combine sexual frustrations with marital problems and work issues and you got the perfect breeding ground for an affair. This is when my H met the OW. I was brought to my knees because I felt like I deserved all this because I could not be a 'real' woman to him. My GP was fantastic and she referred me to a world-famous US clinic that dealt with problems like vaginismus. The doctors there were the best. For the first time in my life, did I feel like I was not alone. Someone understood.... They gave me hope and I was able to overcome this condition within a matter of months through gradual dilation of the vaginal muscles. I now have a great and normal sex life for which I'm very grateful. I guess having been through this entire ordeal makes me appreciate sex even more and I want to do it all the time. I love to experiment and I feel very passionate about making love. My H was happy about my progress, but I guess after all these years of frustration, he feels resentful and I think that he is acting very selfishly by still keeping in contact with OW and continuing to hold the past over my head. I have suffered much from all of this, but I feel that I have come a long way and I could only hope that he would want to share with me a new love and a better marriage.

I'm telling you all of this because I want you to know that you are not alone. We all have our demons and we have all made mistakes. Your H shouldn't have 'sucked it up', but rather told you firmly what was bothering him. Just like my H shouldn't have been trying to 'protect' me by telling me that our sex life was fine when it was not enough for him. I cannot change what happened to me. I did not choose to have vaginismus and I wish I would have found a competent doctor a long time ago. Much of my personal pain could have been prevented...

Keep you chin up, girl. I know it is hard, but I think it is amazing that you have lost so much weight already and you will continue on this path and the sexy and sensual woman in you will reappear again. She is somewhere in there, I truly believe that.

Stay cool!

Kati

thanks kati, it means a lot to me that you shared that with me. i'm a nurse so i do "know" somewhat about how other people think. by that i mean, when i look at someone who is thin (like at the gym), etc. i also think she's probably not 100% happy w/her body (usually everyone has something about them they would like to change) maybe she has a eating disorder, or maybe she used to be overweight and is just now starting to feel good about herself.

i've been spending a lot of time at the gym so of course when i see the other women (women only gym) i can't help but think about where they are at in their lives. like the woman who spends hours at the gym, is tan, i know has had a boob job, and i wonder if she is really happy. or the women that got on the machine next to me last night who it looks like it is such a struggle to get dressed or walk (she's morbidly obese), and i looked at her hand and she had what looked like a wedding ring on, and i just thought to myself (2 thoughts at the same time) i could never let myself get like that but at the same time, i did in a way, and if her husband loves her and is faithful then what i wouldn't give to have that.

i've been looking at a lot of hands lately to see if they have a wedding ring on and wonder if they are happy. or just people in general and why i shouldn't feel so sorry for myself because there are so many other people who are suffering just as much or more than me on so many different levels. those people who are disabled, those people who have lost loved ones overseas during the attacks. my mom lost her mom on 12/1/03 (my last grandparent) and this coming weekend all the family is going to be going to my granny's house this saturday to "take" the stuff that they want. my mom just related it to me how can she just throw anything in the trash? all the cards and things that her mom saved (cards, souveneirs, pictures, etc.) meant something to her but there's so much stuff that probably not half will be taken. you can only hang on to stuff so long. she said that when she and my dad are gone what am i and my sister going to do w/the stuff that they have saved from their parents? when does it end?

it makes me sad to feel i haven't been much a comfort to my mom during this time and she has been such a comfor to me. yes, i would consider myself depressed although it varies to what degree. i've been on anti-d's for years (since 97) and they have been able to help keep my mood "stable" to a certain extent. although i wish i would have been "ordered" to read HN/HN and "the act of marriage" by tim lahaye during my initial counseling sessions years ago because i think that would have helped more than anything. but if my wishes were to come true i wouldn't be here in the first place.

i guess also a part of me is scared that my changes (inside/out) won't be for good, and that even thoug I know God is allowing this for a reason, and i'm certainly probably the closest to God i've been in a long time, is my closesness to him genuine? or if my H comes back am i going to pull away from God again? a lot of struggles going on inside myself on many levels. i appreciate any of you who have read through my posts and offered me comfort and encouragment. prayers to all of you.

Hi RR,

You know, nobody is really perfect and I'm sure that even Supermodels get depressed about a pimple or a nose that it not perfectly straight enough etc.

I do have to say that I AM pretty happy with my body and most of the time I feel sexy. I love to wear lingerie and I have two drawers full of that stuff. My H sighs everytime when he seems me come home with a shopping bag from Victoria's Secret. ;-) But what the heck, I like it!

I do look at people's hands sometimes and I notice their fingers and sometimes I wonder the same thing. Are they happy; what maybe going on in their lives etc.

Sometimes I look at the couple's in our circle of friends and I wonder if any of them have ever dealt with infidelity?

My H sometimes says that I forget to look at people who are less fortunate than I am - people who are disabled, without limbs, no education etc. I do realize that, but I think it is also okay to want the best for oneself.

You and I share a lot of the same thoughts. All of this mess has brought me a lot closer to God as well. I was raised Catholic, but I was never close to God or the Church. I still don't really attend church, but I do talk to God now on a regular basis and it makes me feel good. I worry about the same things though and I ask him to bring me closer to him and continue our relationship, no matter what happens in my M. Sometimes, it takes a life-altering situation for people to turn back to God. He has seen it many times and I don't think that God would hold this against you (or even me). I trust in Him and His forgiveness and strength. You should, too.

I also think that the changes that you are making now for yourself (inside/out) are going to stick around. Just like I know that vaginismus will never ever be a part of MY life again.

I will pray for you tonight, RR and I'm sending you lots of hugs and strength. We'll get through this... Don't you worry.

Kati

thanks again katim you're a sweetheart. it truly is amazing how EVERYTHING takes on a new perspective. i will never be the same and i do believe that's good but can't help but want my H to be a part of my changes. my mom says she's careful to pray for God's will to be done and that his will may not be for me and my H to be back together. I'm trying to pray this too but it's difficult. just hard to think that God wouldn't want me and my H to be together w/the miracle he has worked inside me. i do ask for forgiveness for any selfish thoughts/prayers i have during this but he knows that i'm trying hard.

i also started praying for the OW and her family (that God will convict them and that they realize the R can't go forward). with all that others say here as well that a lot of times when the OP's warts start to show, etc. as well as the OW LBing the WS, a lot of times that's when the A starts to die. Of course, i'm realistic to think that this may never happen until my H is out on his own and this hurts, so again, i just try to take one day at a time.