Need advice on how to respond to this text I got this morning from WH. He's text'd a second time asking if I got it:

"Good morning. I am running out of time and money, no place to go. Now what do I do? HELP! Love, <WS>."

He's got two days to decide where he's going to live. He has zero money. Due in May for him are his cycle insurance, his truck insurance, the camper payment, his child support to me (weekly), and his half of DS's bday/grad gift. I don't want to lose the child support. Without it, I can't make the house payment.

But I don't want to just let him flop at the house until he figures out what it is he wants to do, or until he builds up a little cash again. I don't even know if that's what he's asking. I don't want the chaos. I don't want the A. I don't want him drinking himself into stupidity.

I am REALLY not sure how to even answer. Being the somewhat lippy person I am, I could think of LOTS of replies, but they're all big LB's! So as of yet, I have not replied at all.

HELP!???

LL

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Wow, I could think of tons of replies too...
And I get very sarcastic when I'm angry and hurt.

It's very hurtful for him to text a very calloused, manipulative message that makes it sound as though he is in dire straits and doesn't know waht to do...as though he expected you to bail him out the whole time.

He can stay another month at the apt?

A simple..."Talk?"

And in this talk you can explain that you have been going on with your life, and nothing seems to be changing from his end...that you want to be M to him, but not with the OW and not with his drinking. You have been clear about this, and he knows, he's hoping you'll bend the rules...

You would love for him to come back, but because he wants to, not because he has to. He has been enjoying his wild life and if this is what he wants to do with his life, then you don't want to be a part of it. You have been enjoying the peace at the house.

Ask him if he is better living out of the house? If yes, so be it, he needs to make plans outside of the house. If not, then he needs to make plans to move back in a month...if N/C and N/D.
Ask him what his options are? Do NOT make any suggestions whatsoever. If he takes your suggestion and it turns out badly, he will blame you...

He is desperate. Sometimes the Wayward has to sleep on a cold floor a few nights before they get the message. My H lived in a dingy, rundown, depressing apt for a month before he pulled his head out.

Do NOT let him move back...no matter what the money situation. If he hadn't been spending all his money on OW and her baby, he could afford a life now. As it stands, he's been partying it away. He has to pay the bar tab so to speak, DON'T PAY IT FOR HIM.

How do you be firm without LBing...no judgement or criticism. Just appeal to him that it's not fair to you to have to share you with the OW, and even if he said N/C today, he has to remove all ties before he comes home.

Now, what are you going to do about mutual non-friend. N/C will need to happen there too...not only did they support WH with OW, but friend became OW too.

He called me before I got this response back, so here's the scoop:

He refuses to ask if he can rent for another month, and frankly doesn't have the $ to pay the rent anyway. Apparently OW has agreed to pay her phone bill next week. This delays N/C, of course, and I assume she'll delay it longer. He also has to figure out how to go about separating the phones on the family plan. (I'd just go to Verizon today and explain the situation and see what the cost was going to be. Seems simple.)

I asked him if he was willing to put work and effort into our marriage. He said in his resigned sort way, "I can make anything work if I have to.". Not exactly an "I want to be with you" answer.

THEN I brought up the drinking and that it also needed to be under control. That set him off. He went into the "Oh yeah, now you're starting on THAT, too!!" I told him it has always been one of my criteria. I had two very enjoyable years when he was not drinking. I don't want to deal with the fears and worries that come along with it, too.

I asked him if he was willing to make up a list of things he wants/needs from me, since I feel that I only find them out when I fail them. I want to know what I need to work on to make him happy, too. His response, "LL, I don't think that deep."

He also said he does not feel comfortable in the house anymore, that it's "my" house and not ours. He said he doesn't think it's possible for him to be happy anymore.

I told him I love him, I am lonely, and I miss him, but that I've settled from the very painful loneliness at first to more of a calm, resigned loneliness. Told him I don't want him coming back to the house and then maintaining contact. I don't want the kids and I to have to go through that pain and torment again.

He said, "Oh, so you're telling me home isn't an option either, huh?" I said, "Not if I can't be assured there will be NO contact between you and her. Can you do that?"

He says he thinks so. That doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me.

What I see happening....me either letting him come home, or me not getting child support, payment for his bills on the credit card, etc, since he'll need that $ to pay rent or a hotel bill somewhere.

That leaves me almost $1,000 short for the month. I have a Disney vacation planned and $2,000 set back for it, but that's all. I really hate to cancel a vacation in June that I planned with the kids in order to basically "finance his affair" by not forcing him to have to give me any money to support the kids and our home.

Again, I feel like I am the one getting the short end of the stick here.

Oh, and he threw the pastor thing back in my face again. He said he's having a problem with me being hypocritical here. Apparently he's comparing my incident 7 years ago to what he's doing now. While they both broke vows and I said I am sorry and wish desparately that I could turn back the past and delete it, I can't. (I didn't say this, but I don't see how they're even remotely similar in how they are being handled, though.)

What to do??? I still want to have a "sit down" with him and discuss all this in person. It is not possible to have any kind of a quality conversation over the phone.

LL

And as for mutual person, I only brought up with him that I am not comfortable with the way they live or him spending a lot of time down there. They are not the same people they use to be and I don't like him hanging in a weekend "swingers" environment, no matter how much any of them deny that it's really that.

However, I KNOW he will never, ever agree to N/C with them. Mutual person's H is his oldest friend. They've hung together since they were about 4 years old. WH even lived with the guy's parents for his last year of HS, after his parents D and left him alone. I will have to live with what happened down there and also with her betrayel and just, in WH's terms, "buck up".

I think, in a perfect world, what I'd like for about the next month is for him to pay me child support (to heck with the credit card debt and splitting DS's bday gift--I'll pay the credit card bill off eventually). Then, I'd like him to call me daily so I could hear is voice and know he was okay, but stay the heck out of my life beyond that unless he is sober and not seeing her AT ALL. Otherwise, I wish not to have his chaos.

I doubt that will be an option for, me though...

LL

Hi LL

I have not got the time to read the full thread on this to know all of it. But in my simple view, I would see this as a HUGE opportunity to get him back and also stablish some boundaries.

You vowed to be his wife, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer... and all that.

Well, I know he doesn't want to come home because he doesn't feel like it's your home anymore, It may be a good chance to prove him wrong, and also what are his choices?

If you want him back, do what you think would be best for you, but set some boundaries staright, like ok you are comming here, I'm going to help you, but you also have to help yourself, like if he got a drinking problem, then go and seek help, or if he is still with OW, he has to go NC...

Hope it helps

Why can't he stay at friend's house?

And yes, it is an option for you.

If you invite him back home it will be a matter of time before you go through this again...and this time he'll do it right in the same house.

As it stands now, he's out of the house, you have a REAL chance to make some changes in your M. If you back down now...you will NEVER be able to ask him to make these changes again...he just won't ever believe you'll stick to your convictions.

What does Jennifer say?

Time to tell him this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what I'd like for about the next month is for him to pay me child support (to heck with the credit card debt and splitting DS's bday gift--I'll pay the credit card bill off eventually). Then, I'd like him to call me daily so I could hear is voice and know he was okay, but stay the heck out of my life beyond that unless he is sober and not seeing her AT ALL. Otherwise, I wish not to have his chaos. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

If you back down now...you will NEVER be able to ask him to make these changes again...he just won't ever believe you'll stick to your convictions.

THIS is my biggest fear right now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

As for what Jennifer says, we really didn't address this possibility because I didn't think we'd get down to the wire and then have it come up this way. At the time I last talked to Jennifer, I thought he was either going to do N/C by mid-April (because he was still talking about the FL trip in May with me and that was the criteria for my not cancelling those reservations) or he'd be moving to the camper at mutual person's house.

Apparently they've said something to him that leads him to believe they'd rather he not stay down there. I wish he had another spot to take the camper, but how will I ever know if he really has done N/C if he's not around? I am so confused.

LL

It's the conviction that you are relaying (or lack of it). Recovery is hard...and that is sugarcoating it. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to start with someone else. It's hard even when BOTH people are behind it 100%. It's impossible if you are behind it 100% and he is behind it 50%.

His behavior is VERY immature and fog-like.

Before my H moved back I asked him to start seeing an IC. Have you thought about asking him to attend AA meetings? Or talk with Jennifer alone?

That's exactly it, how will you know if N/C is happening (or not). It doesn't sound like he wants to move to N/C.

And as far as his oldest friend...he should have thought of that before he allowed a drunken intertwining. And I'll bet the friends like OW because she approves of their lifestyle, and heck, probably joins in.

Be strong, this is the part where you become the Statue of Liberty, the lighthouse in the fog, you have given your guidance...just keep ringing the bell, but stand strong. If you meet him halfway, you'll both be lost in the fog.

You know what is the best to do, but it's not the easiest. Don't worry about doing what is easiest, recovery is hard...time to make some hard, but right, decisions, for yourself and the recovery of your M.

Left WH a voice message at noon suggesting that he might consider pulling the camper to the state park near here and renting a lot for 2 weeks (that's the longest they let you stay at one time). I said maybe he could have more time to think about things and we could spend some time becoming comfortable with each other again. There aren't a lot of electric hookups there, but not being the height of camping season, I'm sure some are available, and they're not that expensive.

He just called back--grumpy. Says "So I'm on a 2-week probation period now??!"

I stumbled around and tried to explain that I want him to come home, but not if his heart isn't in it and not if he's just coming home because it's his last resort. And I told him it was hard enough to get to this point after his moving out the first time; that I don't want him to come back and the A to start up again and to have to go through it all over again.

He's angry because he's down to 2 days and he's making me out to be the guilty party for springing on him that he has to give all this up and that maybe I'm not ready to just let him waltz back in. I told him that I would have liked to have discussed things with him a long time ago, but he never wanted R talk. (I guess he did get 2 different letters that BOTH stated the two main criteria for coming back--N/C and get a handle on the booze. It shouldn't be a surprise.)

He's supposedly hauling some stuff out of the apartment tonight. He's not sure if he's storing it at the shop or in our garage. I told him there's plenty of room in the garage, and if he wants to come up, perhaps we can have a calm discussion about things.

I may try to put some things in writing again -- bullet points -- to give us something to work with in the event he does show up. Or more than likely, to give to him to read later, because I doubt he'll show up.

I don't in any way think he's ready for N/C, and I know OW isn't either. Red flags waving all over the place.

LL

My H and his XOW had the sweetheart cell phones too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He got them in the beginning of their affair. Almost the exact same phone #s, just the last digit was different. Since he signed the 2 year contract on the d*mned things he couldn't just cancel hers without paying quite a bit of money. What he did do was put her phone on "stand by restricted" what that means is she can't use it, no incoming or outgoing calls. It still costs him about 10 bucks a month, but that's better than 65. Personally I think he should have demanded it back (supposedly she paid for the actual phone but I doubt it) if she wouldn't give it back he should have reported it stolen. It is his! So if she refused to give it back it's stolen imo.

One piece of advise I have for you is don't let him back until AFTER he does the things he has to do (like a NC letter and beginning AA etc) my H did several things I asked him to do while we were apart. There were things he promised to do after I came back, but once I was back with him he didn't do them. Had I made them a condition of coming back or not I think he would have followed through, but since I'm already here he doesn't think he has to keep his word.

Yes, you're doing a great job.

Watch out arguing with him or trying to convice him otherwise...he is DEEP in the fog right now and lashing out at you. You don't have to take it if it gets violent or threatenting or insulting, but mostly just sit back and let it vomit forth... You don't have to agree just keep saying things like, "You know best what you want." and "I respect your opinion." and "It's not my choice, it's yours."

But mostly just sit back.

You're doing GREAT!!!

When is your next talk with Jen?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lordslady:
Left WH a voice message at noon suggesting that he might consider pulling the camper to the state park near here and renting a lot for 2 weeks

I love your suggestion!


He just called back--grumpy. Says "So I'm on a 2-week probation period now??!"

YOU need an Al-anon meeting.

Manipuilation by your H .... he feels hurt and grumpy and you make fixing his mood your priority.... NO! NO! NO!

He's responsible for his mood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I stumbled around and tried to explain that I want him to come home, but not if his heart isn't in it and not if he's just coming home because it's his last resort.

What an alcoholic hears when you "explain" things to him ----> "blah blah, poor alcoholic you need me to fix you, blah blah"

LOL... Save your energy.... he's not listening, he's manipulating you, can't you feel it?.


He's angry because he's down to 2 days and he's making me out to be the guilty party for springing on him that he has to give all this up and that maybe I'm not ready to just let him waltz back in.

You cannot feel guilty unless you bite into his illness, and make yourself out to be the saviour/martyr and he is the bad little boy once again.

Get off the merry-go-round!

I told him that I would have liked to have discussed things with him a long time ago, but he never wanted R talk. (I guess he did get 2 different letters that BOTH stated the two main criteria for coming back--N/C and get a handle on the booze. It shouldn't be a surprise.)

"Letter? What letter? I don't remember any letter? Ohhhhhhh I lost that letter and I didn't read it anyway."

He's supposedly hauling some stuff out of the apartment tonight. He's not sure if he's storing it at the shop or in our garage. I told him there's plenty of room in the garage, and if he wants to come up, perhaps we can have a calm discussion about things.

Foolish choice, but that's you old merry-go-round self offering him another ride on your back.

I may try to put some things in writing again -- bullet points -- to give us something to work with in the event he does show up. Or more than likely, to give to him to read later, because I doubt he'll show up.

I doubt things have changed... and your bullet points are an irritation to him and not at all motivating...

I don't in any way think he's ready for N/C, and I know OW isn't either. Red flags waving all over the place.

Listen to that inner voice of reason you have growing stronger inside you.

DON'T BE HIS MOMMIE .... Do NOT RESCUE PREACH OR TEACH ...

Hang tough!

MB adultery recovery principles are not often valid when a spouse is an active alcoholic.... only rarel are there exceptions.

Pep

LL -

Don't fall for his hard luck story. He got himself into this, and he can get himself out. He is a big boy, with a playmate.

If you break down and let him back now, he will make no effort to change, he doesn't have to.

I would email him and tell him something like -

H- I love you, and always intended to stay married to you. You are my soulmate. (Do you like that one?) However to preserve my love for you I cannot allow you to move back while you are still in contact with OW.

Also you must be in a recovery program. Since you have been gone, I have been changing. Our home is now peaceful. Please contact me when you feel committed to a personal and marital recovery.

He called. We talked a while. Here is what came out of the fog.

* He is broke. He can't afford to pay $14/day at the state park for the camper. He feels he has no where to go.

* He can't be happy with OW long term. He feels fairly confident of this. He is very angry at the mess she's made in his apartment. Yet she and baby are there until Thursday night. He moves out on Friday. Apparently OW's friend who is housing all her stuff has demanded she move back this weekend or they toss her stuff out. I think in exchange for her living there and keeping her stuff there, she babysits for them sometimes and helps keep up the house. She's been doing none of that lately as she's been flopping at WH's apartment and they're angry.

* He has called the power company to have his service disconnected on 5/1 and the final bill sent to our house.

* He is going to call Verizon to see what needs to take place to have the phone situation settled.

* He is angry because he feels all he has to show for 20 years of work are 2 boxes of magazines, a PS2 and games, some movies, a small rack of clothes, and a few dishes. He resents that I have everything else. I reminded him that he also has a very nice truck (paid for), a Harley (paid for), two children, a wife, and a nice house. Didn't help.

And then I hit the nail on the head. I asked him if he was letting pride get in the way of his coming back home. He said "You mean, do I feel like I'm giving in if I do? Yes, that's EXACTLY how I feel."

WH is a very proud person. He and DD are both alike in this respect, even when it's harmful to them.

I had a hard time responding because I know I am full of DJ's and I was trying not to. I finally just said, "You know, your friends and family are going to see you in a much better light if you do what you can to try and save the marriage. You're not going to win any prizes for holding out 'just because'."

I admitted that I've felt this way on things, too. For example, I told him that a lot of people in my situation would have walked away from the marriage just for the principal of the matter, even though they still loved their husband. I could do that, but the only "prize" I'll win is the loss of a chance at a future with him.

I am just really scared, guys! I don't want life without him, but I'm scared of life with him, too. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I've prayed that God would help me make the right decision, or at least prevent me from screwing up and making the wrong decision, even if I was trying very hard to do it. I feel the "out of time" panic, too. I don't like it.

LL

And this will floor ya all...

My mind has really wandered lately. I have found myself saying, "Could I be happy with someone else." And furthermore, I find myself looking at recent widower in church and thinking, "I wonder if he's really as calm and good as he appears here. What if he's the one with whom I could have the Christian marriage I've always prayed for, and I may be passing up the chance by going back with the man I think I can't live without, who is by no means living any kind of Christian life."

Sick huh? No, I have made no moves his direction. Do NOT worry. In fact I have stayed so far away that he probably actually thinks I'm an uncaring snob, considering his wife just died a few months ago. And who's to say he has any plans on ever remarrying, or would have any interest whatsoever in me? Who's to say we'd even be compatable? He's probably 10 years older than I am.

The only reason this has even been on my mind is that I am so preoccupied with not being able to ever remarry if WH doesn't come back, unless I meet someone who is never married, widowed, or D because their spouse had an A. And then during my stint with WH's A, this guy becomes a young-ish widower. He has kids around my kids' age. He's not bad looking. And it sounded from his testimony at church that his past was somewhat similar to mine--that he hasn't been a Christian forever but fought it for years and only turned to Jesus when he was in college.

Oh yeah, and who's to say a man who admitted in a letter he wrote to the church after his wife's death, that he was satisfied because he he had been faithful to his vows for the 26 years of his marriage would EVER have anything to do with a woman who wasn't to hers!!

Okay, so I'm off on a very confused, very messed up tangent now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Feel free to start swinging the 2x4!

LL

blink blink...

wha... what happened... did you change the title of your thread again or did I fall asleep for 2 weeks?

Eerily enough, we seem to be in the same boat again. WS moving back in, but not fully committed to saving the marriage...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Anyhoo, you'll get no 2x4's from me regarding your last post. I actually went out and did it. We all know how that turned out.

I'm leaning towards the 'let him move back in stance'. Considering the situation, I'd have very clear cut conditions. No drinking. No contact with OW. You can call them selfish demands if you like. He may say you are trying to control him, and you can reply that you are really only trying to control your own environment. Ask him if he feels they are unreasonable conditions, just for fun.

If my wife wants to move back in without a commitment to rebuild, I don't think I could or would want to tell her no. I still think it's our best chance. Buuuut... I still have to protect myself on key issues. It's about me. Not about controlling her.

Also, I think the phone is a great way to have a deep conversation. If you feel you are losing it, you can always hang up. If he gets confrontational or the conversation starts to otherwise go badly, you can always stop and pick it up later. Ya can't do that in person.

Harley's guidelines for negotiations state first and foremost that you should ensure that the negotiating process is 'safe' and 'pleasant' for all involved. The phone is a great way to implement that concept into your conversations with your husband, to a certain degree.

Above all, remember who you are, where you have been and what you have been through. You have made some great changes in yourself and I don't want you see you lose it, lose patience with him, get angry and drive him away, etc...

Keep firmly in your mind the end result, the finished product and do not, DO NOT, let the moment gain control of you! (Dang, do I EVER need to follow my own advice)

dewt

Dewt,

I change the title of my post every once in a while just to see if people like you notice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

As for our situations being similar, I certainly hope the similarity ends without my adding any new dime-sized holes my palm. How's yours doing?

I am really scared to make a decision of any kind right now. I feel like I'm the one being pressured, since he didn't want R talk for months and now he's down to the wire and has to do something--and it's not something he wants to do.

And OW not moving out of his place until the day before he moves doesn't help because there is no way for us to discuss boundaries or anything.

I am so afraid of ending up in something worse than what I'm dealing with right now being by myself. I don't want to have him come back and continue to see her because it may never end. Or his drinking may never end. (That's even more likely.) And when I brought up the drinking on the phone today, it sure struck a nerve with him.

And the guy at church, I think, is on my mind because he represents in my mind the caring, considerate, loving, Christian H that I want so badly. Most of those words are not in a vocabulary used to describe my H. Funny, quick-witted, strong, sexy (when he wanted to be), and able to fix anything--yes.

Considerate and caring? Maybe, if the moon was full, and the earth was tilted just right on it's axis, and it was a leap year. Otherwise, probably not.

And I get the feeling that if he comes back, he will not be going back to church with me and will not want to discuss anything of a spiritual nature. So much for the man being the spiritual leader of the house.

I just want to badly to be loved and cared for and to believe I'm special in someone's eyes. I want someone to spend my life with, to have fun with, to share my happiness and my sadness with and my love with. I don't want to do it all alone. But darn it, I want that person to be him.

And I'm afraid I'm so hoping I'll have that dream someday that I may let down my guard and allow him to come back now, when he's not ready to commit, and then be the sorriest person alive.

On one hand, I feel like if he does come back, maybe his feelings will start to return and his feeling uncomfortable in our house will subside.

On the other hand, if he comes back and then continues to see OW or to drink heavily, how do I get him back out? I don't think I can.

Ugh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Why does it all have to be so confusing. I truly wish God would just drop a banner or something in front of me with clear instructions.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> DO NOT, let the moment gain control of you! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely off topic but...

Oh, if only I'd read that comment BEFORE I let lose a few "tainted" sentences on the very polite customer service rep who called to inform me that my satellite TV service would be disconnected if I didn't make an over-the-phone payment tonight.

I just sent the payment (albeit WAY late) a couple days ago, but mail from Iowa to Arizona takes longer than that. I just haven't been in the mood to write out the bills. Other things on my mind.

He was happy to tell me they'd credit that check to my account, too, when they got it. I was not nearly as happy to tell him that that was all well and good, but that I sent them the April payment and didn't budget the money for the May payment until, well...May.

One of the things I really hate about me (and I have no doubt deeply displeases God) is my habit of saying something first and thinking about it afterwards.

I did tell the poor guy that it wasn't his fault, that I was just angry at the world right now, but the non-Christian expletives I'm sure stuck with him more than my apology.

End result: You can all come and watch satellite TV at my place until at least the end of May now. We may not have anything to eat for a while because I spent the grocery money to pay for TV, but the entertainment will take our minds off our rumbling stomaches.

Okay, so we won't go without groceries either....

LL

Hey, LL{/b],

Ya, I notice the thread title change... I almost always do a double take...

[b]As for our situations being similar, I certainly hope the similarity ends without my adding any new dime-sized holes my palm. How's yours doing?

I think our similarities just hit a definate difference over the weekend. (got a new post up) At least my hand is healed. Drywall dust and paint make a fine protective covering and I'm typing normally again.

I am really scared to make a decision of any kind right now. I feel like I'm the one being pressured, since he didn't want R talk for months and now he's down to the wire and has to do something--and it's not something he wants to do.

I know what you mean. Take your time. Shrug the pressure off. The answer is right there inside you and if you are quiet enough, you will hear it.

And OW not moving out of his place until the day before he moves doesn't help because there is no way for us to discuss boundaries or anything.

You must discuss boundries. They are what will influence your decision...

I am so afraid of ending up in something worse than what I'm dealing with right now being by myself.

I understand your fear. Have faith in your stregnth. Have faith in your wisdom. God is by your side and will not let you do anything that is bad for you unless he feels you need to grow some more. Er... that's not very comforting is it?...

I don't want to have him come back and continue to see her because it may never end. Or his drinking may never end. (That's even more likely.) And when I brought up the drinking on the phone today, it sure struck a nerve with him.

That's where the boundries come in. Not that he won't fall of track from time to time, but they are important.

And the guy at church, I think, is on my mind because he represents in my mind the caring, considerate, loving, Christian H that I want so badly.

That's what I was thinking about the girlfriend I had for a month or so... unfortunately, despite being all that, she was neither my wife nor the mother of my child and I could not forget the love of my life that I had still not gotten over.

Considerate and caring? Maybe, if the moon was full, and the earth was tilted just right on it's axis, and it was a leap year. Otherwise, probably not.

Well, old dawgs can learn new tricks. It just takes them longer. Have faith!

And I get the feeling that if he comes back, he will not be going back to church with me and will not want to discuss anything of a spiritual nature. So much for the man being the spiritual leader of the house.

Same situation. Though I've fallen from grace lately, I'm back on track and plan on leading by example. I was brought to Christ by SEEING with my own eyes the difference He made in peoples lives, not by being preached at or dragged to church.

I just want to badly to be loved and cared for and to believe I'm special in someone's eyes. I want someone to spend my life with, to have fun with, to share my happiness and my sadness with and my love with. I don't want to do it all alone. But darn it, I want that person to be him.

You have that right, and I, for one, believe it is possible. Remember, (broken record time) patience and faith... patience and faith... patience and faith...

And I'm afraid I'm so hoping I'll have that dream someday that I may let down my guard and allow him to come back now, when he's not ready to commit, and then be the sorriest person alive.

I have the same fears. But it's a risk I'm willing to take, assuming that the possiblility still exists. (read my latest post)

On one hand, I feel like if he does come back, maybe his feelings will start to return and his feeling uncomfortable in our house will subside.

That is something you can work on if he is back with you. Otherwise, that can't happen. Again, it's a risk/reward situation. Evalute the risks, take the chance and be aware that it could go either way.

On the other hand, if he comes back and then continues to see OW or to drink heavily, how do I get him back out? I don't think I can.

Why not?

Ugh! Why does it all have to be so confusing. I truly wish God would just drop a banner or something in front of me with clear instructions.

Katching, there I can help you...

"Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls." Jeremiah 6:16

dewt (who really should have been reading Jeremiah this weekend)

LL