check out my other thread for background info: 1)http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002234
2)http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=013996
3)http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=013315

Here is the latest.
WH still says to me and OW he is coming home but he doesn't want to come home until his debt is paid. He feels he can't bring the debt ($3500 owes OW) to me. Apparently she felt sorry for him and gave her credit card to him since I stopped our credit cards. WH says OW has moved her stuff out of their trailer.

WH left Sunday am to go to work and gave me his mailbox key to mail him his bills. Said again he was coming home. Sunday evening OW called wanted to see key because he told her he lost it. I told her see could come over see the key & see his stuff that has been on porch waiting for him to pickup. While she was there he called her. OW has WH when he came home who was he going to? WH said he was going to his trailer to be with himself because BS wont let me come home.

OKAY, I have given myself plenty of 2x4's and am ready to move on with or without him. So I wrote him a letter today, I plan on telling him or giving it to him tomorrow.
-----------
R,
I would love for all of this to be over with. I do not want a divorce. We got married in God's eyes for life. Since you have chosen to go outside of our marriage to have sex with someone else you have committed adultery. This has been going on for 9 months by now you should know what you want. Right now I have not seen any signs from you showing you want your family even though you keep saying that you are coming home. R, when has someone stopped you from doing what you want to do. If you really wanted to come home my words would not stop you. I think you have feelings for Nickole. I know that you still have feelings for me or you wouldn't continue to call me.

I really believed you Saturday when you called to let me know that Nickole had moved out. Sunday morning when you showed up I believed even more. Then you gave me your mailbox key. What a sign! Then I get a call from Nickole and it seems the complete opposite has happened. R, you never gave her up and she didn't give you up. How were we suppose to try to make our marriage work when yall couldn't stop seeing each other.

R, I love you but I will not allow you to ruin anymore of my life. I wont allow you to damage son because in a few years he will know where his daddy is, just like your dad & mom. If you want to become the person you were then we would want you in our family. But if you want to be the person you have become that is fine and Chase & I don't need you. This marriage will be over with a divorce by an AFFAIR.
J
------------

Do any of you that have been around for a while see something that I am not seeing? We have a meeting with my IC on 4/14. She thinks I shouldn't go to lawyer until after the meeting with her. I am really confused about my next step.

I saw a sign at a church that read "God gives enough strenght for the next step". Boy I wish I knew what my next step is going to be.

(BTW - this started when son was born 7/03)

I may have provided to much info at one time, if so I am sorry ahead of time.
PLEASE HELP ME!
j

<small>[ April 19, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: r & j ]</small>

I'd hold off on that letter for a bit. If you feel you need to distance yourself from the situation, read about Plan B and read one of the Plan B letters that are posted on this site. Use that as a template for your letter. Read also about Plan A because you may want to try that first.

All in all, I'd say take a step back, take a deep breath and read a bit, post a bit before you do something that will worsen your situation.

dewt

I agree with dewt. You should give WH a Plan B letter.

okay, last night WH said again that she was gone.
We all shoot pool at the local pool hall weekly. I got there first, then OW, then WH. OW opponet team didn't show up so she left. WH went outside to get his phone I followed him to see if she called. And she did, I asked why if it is over why would she be calling? He said he didn't know. He tried calling her but her phone was off. Alot of LB was going on. We argued for about 20minutes. Then WH left to go home. I went back inside to play.

When I left I rode by where she was living with her sister and she was there. So okay, maybe it is over.

WH called me when he got home to make sure I got home okay. Said he was going to sleep had to get up early to go to work.

WH called this morning to let me know he wouldn't be working due to rain. Said he was going to catch up on his rest. PLAN A - I was very polite on the phone - only concerned about today.

Okay, here we are. Both wanting to work this out but not sure where to start. I will read like crazy from this site. I want this to work but I feel my WH should be punished for the he** he has put me through for the past 9 months. I know I should just let go and be happy but part of me thinks he owes me for doing wrong. Any suggestions.
j

WH wants to come home but without the debt. I have questions but I don't know how to go about getting the answered or working on me to answer them.

Here is my list:
*when do I let WH know how bad he has hurt me?
*what do we need to do to learn to talk to each other again? We have been separated physically for two months but talk every few days.
*How do we shoot pool when we might see OW weekly? They even play on the same team.
*how is living separately going to help? This scares me, his free time to be available to her or someone else.
*will he be punished for what he has done to me? I don't want to feel I got put in 2nd place
*is he hurting?
*how can we both come to a grip with our pain?
*how to let it go?

Anyone got any ideas how to help me with these questions.
j

To heck with the debt. If that is the real reason he's delaying his return, tell him that you want your marriage/family back together and part of that means taking on issues together- including the debt. That may not be the reason he's delaying his return though... be prepared for that.

Summary:
Plan A- no disrespectful judgements, no demands, no angry outbursts. Make home with you a 'safe' place for him to be.
Plan B- no contact. Let him stew in it. Protect yourself from further harm. The way I see it, this is a last straw kind of thing.

If you both want to work this out, that is a good start. I'd recommend picking up the book "Surviving an Affair" by the Harleys. If you can't get it for whatever reason, read the info on this site. The concepts of the Lovebank and Lovebusters would be a great place to start.

It'd be great if we could just 'let go and be happy'. I'd love to be able to do that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sadly it isn't always that easy, and no-one here will suggest you do that.

Any attempt to 'punish' your husband will backfire. Best case scenario, it will make recovery that much more difficult and painful. Scratch that idea right from your head. Instead, with an open mind and an open heart, look back and see if you can find out what made having an affair so attractive to him in the first place. Please don't take that the wrong way- just reflect on it.

when do I let WH know how bad he has hurt me?

Do you not think he does not know? I'd put this one on the back burner if I were you. (I'm facing the same thing, btw, so it's not like I'm asking you to do something I'm not)

what do we need to do to learn to talk to each other again? We have been separated physically for two months but talk every few days.

Practice. Read on this site about 'negotiating' and 'lovebusters' and 'emotional needs'.

How do we shoot pool when we might see OW weekly? They even play on the same team.

Play pool somewhere else. No contact with OW is very important.

how is living separately going to help? This scares me, his free time to be available to her or someone else.

Not knowing alot about your specific situation, this is a difficult one to comment on. I am of the firm belief that you don't work on a marriage by being apart. Sometimes though, apartently separation seems important. Perhaps for one spouse or the other to clear his/her head... I dunno. I'm separated from my spouse and don't like it. Not one bit.

will he be punished for what he has done to me? I don't want to feel I got put in 2nd place

Hmmm... the goal is not punishment, but healing. Punishment bad. Healing good. I don't know him, but at one point I was a wayward and punished my own self pretty darn good. Any attempt by my Wife to punish me would have driven me away pretty quick.

is he hurting?

You know him better than anyone else here. (see above)

how can we both come to a grip with our pain?

Hey, you just answered your previous question! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Seriously... forgiveness, patience, time. The more effort you both put into recovery, the more you will see yourself focusing on the positives. When we fall down and scrape our knees, we don't dwell on the pain. We learn from the experience and make sure it doesn't happen again. The scrapes heal but the wisdom stays. (hopefully) Eventually the pain is just a memory.

how to let it go?

Work it through. Understand it. Live it, experience it. Recovery and healing are a processes, not switchs that you can just flip. No-one said it would be easy, but many here feel that it is worth it.

Hope that helps.

dewt

I'm no expert but I'll give you insight into what I feel I can.......take it for what it's worth.

*when do I let WH know how bad he has hurt me?
When you feel hurt. Don't pound it into them, but they need to know.

*what do we need to do to learn to talk to each other again? We have been separated physically for two months but talk every few days.
This is a toughie. I am in the same "place" with my WW. Try to make conversation. Try not to let the majority of your conversations about the R or the A. If they start drifting that way, tone it down. DON'T LB!

*How do we shoot pool when we might see OW weekly? They even play on the same team.
Play something else. Croquet, hopscotch, anything....

*how is living separately going to help? This scares me, his free time to be available to her or someone else.
Don't know..... I'm no help here.

*will he be punished for what he has done to me? I don't want to feel I got put in 2nd place
Yes. Not by you. By himself. Might not be soon. Might be 6mos. or 10 years down the road. If you recover your marriage and make it better then you DO win. Remember that.

*is he hurting?
Yes. But differently than you.

*how can we both come to a grip with our pain?
By finding out what caused it, and remove it.

*how to let it go?

Time, patience, love....

Probably doesn't help much, but I thought I'd throw it out there....

Good Luck,
Ethan

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

R&J,

This is just my two cents, and keep in mind, my M is just as messed up as his, so take my opinion for what is worth...probably less than $.02.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Here is my list:
*when do I let WH know how bad he has hurt me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not now, unfortunately (and this sucks...just read CV55's posts for some insight into this) not now. The withdrawal period, frankly, scares the heck out of me. You have to hang tight until he is out of the withdrawal stage. Just imagine he was a crack addict. He stole everything in your entire house, sold it, and bought crack. Now he is here to tell you he wants to quit. Well, you know crack is a very hard addiction to overcome, so you would probably not choose right when he came to you for help to let him know about your feelings about his stealing your life away (as valid as they may be). Besides, he is too addicted to hear it anyway right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> *what do we need to do to learn to talk to each other again? We have been separated physically for two months but talk every few days.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is where counseling comes in. Steve Harley (the originator of all these concepts) has a great recovery program if you are able to afford the program and his counseling help. But just think, he is one of the few that can help couples jump this hurdle and enjoy a GREAT marriage. Get started reading his need her needs, surviving an affair, I like the stuff from Loveandrespect.com, etc. There is plenty out there to teach married couples how to relate, be heard, express themselves, have their needs met, and be happy! Even your local church probably offers free counseling.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> *How do we shoot pool when we might see OW weekly? They even play on the same team. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Girl, I know you don't want to hear this, but you will need to find another recreational activity to enjoy together. Or join a new league. Imagine your pool hall being the local crack house. You cannot go there. Some couples have to literally MOVE from their cities to get over this. I know you are probably mad to hear about one more sacrifice, but it is what it is.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*how is living separately going to help? This scares me, his free time to be available to her or someone else.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not believe separation helps when you are at this stage. I think that is step #1....to have him move back in. Many separations only enable the affair further and it is probably damn near impossible to get thru withdrawal alone. In other words, once your husband starts to hurt from his separation from the OW, do you think he will have the willpower to resist if he is alone. I DON'T THINK SO. Plenty of WH on the site can barely resist and they LIVE AT HOME!!!!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*will he be punished for what he has done to me? I don't want to feel I got put in 2nd place </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow. That is a hard one. It depends on what you feel about life. I personally think that God will handle that. My WH, I believe, will have to pay the piper. But that punishment will probably never come from me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*is he hurting?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Probably yes. I mean, not only did he betray you, your kid and everyone else you both hold dear, but honestly, he betrayed himself. I truly believe that these things eat up our spouses like a cancer. If you are a reader, see if you can check out the sexual detour at your local library. I taught me a lot about the psycological reasons for an affair, and bottom line, it is an escape from things that our spouses really need to deal with that are hurting inside. That book may shine some light on what "hurts" were there before, and what compounded hurts will be there now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*how can we both come to a grip with our pain? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By a boat load of work, time, communication, counseling, God's grace, and applying the principles on this site. I believe they really help pave the way for something better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*how to let it go? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this one is really hard for me to answer. I don't know. For me, I think it will take time, a real, real, REAL earnest, HEARTFELT effort on my husbands part, and I will probably have to say a prayer of forgiveness each and every day until the day that I die.

Good luck. And I am sorry you have to be here. But an attempt at recovery on behalf of your H is a good sign. GET THE HELP AND RESOURCES YOU NEED PRONTO!

And wait to see what the experts on the site say! :-)

Thank yall so much for the insight. I am going to print it out to read again later when I am alone.

Yesterday WH only called me once and that was early in the morning. I rode by his place after work to see him but he wasn't home. I rode back by there about 11:30p to see how many vehicles were at his place. To my surprise it was only his. The bad part of me wants to think he probably picked her up.

I have held out from calling him but I don't know if that is the right thing to do. I have started thinking that maybe I helped him get rid of OW and now he is going to get rid of me. I am not sure if this M is heading to recovery. Because WH words and actions are not the same.
j

Don't lose heart. I don't think you can find one wayward spouse on this board whose actions and words were not contradictory. That is what this fog is all about.

Ya, no kidding...

Anybody here who comes across anything that makes sense, post a link or something... lol...

dewt

r&j: How are you? Checking in to see if you are hanging in there...

Yes, I'm still hanging. I forgot my password and didn't have access until today.

This past Thursday WH and I had a big blow up. I LB and cried and yelled. It was terrible but the bad part was I felt better. I had released so much tension that I had bottled up inside of me.

I know that it was wrong but once I started crying I just couldn't stop. It has been a few weeks since I cried.

WH said he would call Friday evening to resume our conversation in a more adult like manner. But of course no call. He did call and left a message Sunday night to see if I was going to a friend's wake. I saw him at the wake but wasn't close enough to speak.

WH came over Monday to see son. I put his mail and an Easter basket in his truck so he would get it when he left. I asked WH what he did for the holiday, he said he went to some friends for the usual crawfish boil. (we have attended this for the last 3 years) I told him son has 1st Easter egg hunt. He said I know I missed it. I told him that he has missed alot of his 1st. (big LB) He said I know then I said but there will be more that you could be there for. He said I know. The visit went well not much else about the relationship except the above.

I am doing fine. I know that I can not let him just run me over. I must stand up for myself and our son. WH needs are not the most important thing in our lives. Just letting you know what has been going on. Oh yea, WH and I have an appt. with my IC Wednesday morning. My mind is wondering if he will show up or not. talk to you later.
j

4/14/04
R and I went to counselor this morning. After I told her what has happened since I saw her last and R told her about us not being able to talk after about 5 minutes then it turns to arguing. C told us that it sounds to her that we don't have a marriage. C doesn't think it will work. C said there is to much muddy water under the bridge. But C is willing to work with us. What do yall want? R - for all of this to be over with. J - married and happy. C said that right now we do not have any communication skills. J said we need to be friends either way because of son. He will have things in his life that we will both be part of. C said yes, we can work on that. This can't be fixed in one session.

During the session - R told her he didn't feel comfortable with someone else raising his son. He didn't like J doing things now when he tried to get J to do things before. He thinks its good but doesn't like it took this to get J to do things. R also said he couldn't believe he did this because he has never like anyone that has cheated on their wife. R opened up to C. That is a big step for him, he is not one to talk to others.

C said are yall willing to come back? we both said yes. C said make a appt. that is good for both of you. C gave us some rules for our conversations: no talking about OW and no checking up on the other.

On the way back from the C's office. R asked me if I was going to the wedding rehearsal & dinner Friday night. (R is in a wedding Saturday) I told him that I really didn't any right to be there since I wasn't in the wedding and we weren't really a couple. R said do you want to go with me? I said yes.

I think I might actually see a light in the fog. I hope I am not setting myself up for another fall. Last night at pool I heard OW talking about her new trailer she is getting. I don't think R and OW are a couple anymore because all of OW stuff is gone from R's rent place. But I do think they are talking only to settle money owed to OW. I think this might be a sign of WH coming out of fog.
j

J:

Look. I think it is good that Wh opened up at the counselor's, but I saw MAJOR red flags from your recap of the counseling session:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> C told us that it sounds to her that we don't have a marriage. C doesn't think it will work. C said there is to much muddy water under the bridge. But C is willing to work with us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C is probably right about the assessment that your M is a mess. But you need to find a C that says, believes, and has a track record in making marriage's work, no matter how muddy the water under the bridge is. That just scares me...your WH does not need any more legitimization that he can end the M (can't you just imagine him saying "Even our C said our marriage was messed up beyond repair."). YIKES.

I think it is nice that he invited you to the wedding, but I would keep your guard up. He just may be playing the "having my cake and eating it too" game, getting a fix from you, then her, then you, etc.

R&J,

Some good progress! I don't like that the C seems to dismiss your M so readily. But I do like that the C is going to work on communication skills and that you are both interested in improving communication. Like you said, that needs to happen regardless of what happens to the M.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you have a list of boundaries and expectations for when R wants to come home? i.e. NC letter to OW and NC forever. Agree to continue counseling, etc.

2. WHY are you still playing pool where OW is? What is more important, your M or a pool game? You pick one or the other.

I agree about the C. I wonder at the end of the session if she still thinks our marriage is over.

Wednesday afternoon R called just to see how my day was going. We have a nice conversation. Last night I called R to tell him about our taxes got voicemail. He called back said he was helping a friend move a frigerator. We had another good conversation. Today R called to see how my day was going.

Wedding Rehersal: I think R is showing me that he wants me by inviting me to the rehersal. But I will keep my eyes and ears open.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you have a list of boundaries and expectations for when R wants to come home? i.e. NC letter to OW and NC forever. Agree to continue counseling, etc.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure what they should be beside no contact; attend couseling; be accountable for daily activity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2. WHY are you still playing pool where OW is? What is more important, your M or a pool game? You pick one or the other.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our marriage is important but I enjoy shooting pool and getting out of the house. Our pool teams don't always shoot at the same place as OW's team. I am at the point that I am shooting pool to show OW she does not bother me. I bet yall will think that is the wrong attitude to have.

J

My weekend.


4/16/04
Friday night at rehearsal dinner Ricky was nice then rude but he was drinking. Ricky brought me home (about 10:15p) we argued but then calmed down and talked sitting in the yard. I called him about 15 minutes after he left to ask about boiling crawfish. He said he was in town getting something to eat. I got to R's at 10:45p he was not there. At 11:15p I called him said he was at the bar. I told him I was at his trailer waiting to spend the night with him since he was leaving. (excuse to check up on him) He said don't leave I'm on my way home don't leave. I waited until 12:02am, I called him a few times but he didn't answer. I left a note saying "I'm sorry you missed out. J"

I went home but at 3:30am got up with son decided to go back to R's. He was there alone. I asked why did he let me sit outside wanting for him to come. He said he didn't know. I asked why didn't he answer the phone to tell me he decided not to come back. He said he didn't know. I said you didn't think about my safety sitting here in the dark parking lot in this neighborhood. I asked him who did he put first. He said I put you second and drinking first. I said okay and left.

Saturday afternoon R called to see about the wedding what time to meet. I told him I would meet him at the wedding since I didn't need to be there so early. The wedding was really nice. At the reception, my brother in law and I danced a few times. I danced with R. R danced with my sister & brother in law to a fast song. R got mad because I was dancing with BIL & group dancing (the bride/bridesmaids).

On our way home R was driving really fast on the side of the road. I asked him to slow down several times. I was crying. I reminded him we had a son at home that we need to get home safely too. He said "The cruise is set on 100mph and this truck is not stopping to I get to my trailer." I begged him to slow down he said no. I said give me my cell and stop the truck I'm getting out. He slammed on brakes in the middle of the road and I got out.

I called my mom to come get me and start walking and crying. This lady stops picks me up and brings me to the store. R passed us and started calling my cell, leaving rude messages. I meet my mom, R calls again. I didn't answer his calls. My mom brings me to a friends house to stay for the night. R calls again this time from my home number leaves a message I'm waiting for you to come home. (R is suppose to leave at 12midnight to go to work in West Virginia.) R's work partner starts calling my cell leaves a message to call him. R calls again, this time I answer I told him that a lady in a white truck picked me up. R says who it is. I said I don't know. R says I am going to kick their tail (he uses choice words). I said R it was a lady that picked me up. He said you will come home sooner or later and I will be here waiting for whoever it is that picked you up.

During the night R left messages on my voicemail: some were very rude and mad but toward the morning it was upset that I wasn't answering anybody's calls. He was begging to please call and let him know if I was okay.

R and the work partner continues to call until 8am Sunday morning. I call my mom to tell R that he needs to leave to go to work and calm down or I will serve him with papers. I also said to tell him that he has changed so much and not for the good that son and I don't need him like he is. She says okay.

R calls cell (still at my house) leaves message that he must see me before he leaves for work. He just wants to apologize. I return his call. He is crying says he's sorry he doesn't like the person he has become. Please come home so I can apologize to you in person. please! I told him that I would have to think about it. I call my mom she tells me that R broke down crying in front of work partner when she gave him my message. I said it is time to get ready for church and since he hasn't left yet I guess I might as well come home. She comes to get me. I call R tell him I'm on my way home he says good because he needs to see me.

I get home. R and work partner are on the porch. R and I go inside to talk. R says he has been acting like an idiot. He has become the person he didn't want to. He has become his dad and my dad at the same time. He said he has lost friends. He has lost respect from friends. He can never do anything to repay me for what he has done. He wants his family. He hopes he never sees anything that has alcohol in it even cough syrup. He hopes the counselor is wrong by saying that we wont make it. He wants to prove her wrong. By this time he is crying again. He will do anything that I want. He says he has responsibilities, he is a man, husband and father. He continues to apologize during this conversation.

I let him ramble about what he has done during the time. He says he wants to give our marriage an honest chance. I said honest? HE says yes, honest I didn't do it last time but I see you are trying and have been trying. It is time I try. I tell him that I accept his apology for what he did last night (leaving me). I told him that they need to get on the road to WV. He said I will leave my checkbook and keys to trailer and truck for you if you would take care of my bills while I'm gone. I said okay.

Off they go to work. He calls 3 or 4 times during the day. He has called today. He actually sounds like he misses me. I am not getting my hopes up to far but I do believe he has seen some daylight.

Okay so I really don't have any questions well maybe one. R has finally showed some remorse for what has happened during all of this. What is my next step? I know I should start Plan A while he is away working. But I don't know what I should do when he gets home. What is our next step in recovery? How do we learn to communicate about things that have happened and money issues with OW? How do we learn to be friends again?

Any advice!
J

r & j,

I don't have any experience (thank goodness) with a drinking spouse so I'm hoping some others will chime in here. I *have* read in Harley's books, and from posters on this site, that until the drinking is curbed you can't address the A. I'll go with the assumption that's true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I should start Plan A while he is away working.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've been on this site for about five months.
Your sig says WH moved out and back eight months ago, then out for good two months ago.
Why have you not already been in plan A?

Personally I think you should do a good solid Plan A for at least a couple of months, more if you can.

Then go into a Plan B when your reserves get low or if your WH continues to sit on the fence and can't make up his mind between you and OW. Conditions for renewing contact with you in Plan B would include NC with OW and a sincere AA effort BEFORE he's allowed to move back home.

First thanks for replying I was wondering if anybody was out there.

I agree to that R will have to get help with his drinking. Definately agree to NC with OW. I do believe that both of us will have to avoid shooting pool.

I try to be in Plan A but when the conversation turns something sparks in my head and I get angry and continue to talk instead of getting off of the phone.

We have good conversations on the phone as long as it doesn't involve money, OW, A or certain friends that he has. What suggestions do you have for when these topics come up in conversation?

I will reread the 180 degree list.

What should I do about counseling? We have an appt. Monday but he will not be here. I am not sure if I should call counselor let her know he is not in town. What do you think?
J