it is too hard to share much right now.

H is hurting so bad.

please pray for us.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

Done FL,

God Bless

FL, understood. Hang in there. Remember you gave him a wonderful gift and don't ever forget that. It will take a while but it's so worth it. This isn't meant to hurt you but yesterday my W woke up to me crying. Here I am two years later and I'm still struggling but I know we are moving forward. She lashed out the night before and I kept my mouth shut then but it took a toll the next day. But she finally admitted that she is scared. This is the first chink in her armor.
I told her I don't want her to be scared and that what I am doing with SH is to help us and not hurt her. I guess my point is that it is going to take a lot of love and patience and you know that. So just keep being the strong one for him. He'll be ok, and you both will come out stronger as a couple. It really will be OK. You need to know that because right now he may not. It will bring you closer. I will pray for you. Happy Easter.

WOE

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> it is too hard to share much right now.

H is hurting so bad.

please pray for us. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear FL,

Please let your H know that as a BS, the pain he is enduring comes as part of the healing. Right now my H is going through a lot of physical pain (broke his leg - not my fault - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and yet it can not be avoided. Drugs help some but it does not remove all the pain. Some pain must be endured in order to heal properly.

Self-inflicted pain is not healthy, yet when the body sends the pain message it is to let us know that it needs TLC. Your H is crying out for TLC and it may need to come in various forms some of which he may not know what he needs and how to receive it.

Sometimes helping someone means giving support and sometimes that support is stepping back to let them try what they feel they must even if it takes a bit longer. I am having to do that. After my H tries his way a bit, then we work on it together. Slowly he is seeing that the more we work together the faster the healing.

I too still have my moments. Now I know to ask for his help. It c/b as simple as being held or reassured that he loves me. It c/b as large as getting a new diamond ring (just kidding - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). Whatever it is our goal together is to help each other over the crisis.

See he needs to help you too but right now he can only see his pain. Marriage requires both give and take. If you can both read the book His Needs/Her Needs and Givers/Takers (both by Dr Harley) it could do you both a world of good.

Gently FL, give reassurance, let him cry as he needs and gently reassure him of your love.

A very wise man gave his love in the most painful way in behalf of all mankind. He did it because he loved his Father and his family. His Father knew this was the only way to properly redeem his family's lost right and made this sacrifice to the ending result would be a restoration of his original purpose of that family's right.

I am sure you know who the characters in the above account are. The point is that pain was felt on both sides and even though no one wanted the pain, it was endured and overcome by the great love that existed between that Father and Son.

FL, may that same emotion and quality of love help you and your H heal.

Hugz,
L.

thanks

we had intercourse friday night. for me of course it was wonderful, very healing. it was very unexpected, i thought it was just going to be one-sided but then he pulled me up. i could not tell how it was for him at the time, he went to sleep very quickly, but then again he always did this.

in the morning, i still could not tell, i didn't want to push so i asked him if we could dialogue (comes from Retrouvaille, means you answer a question about feelings on paper, describing feeling only). the question i wanted to have us both answer was "How did I feel when we made love last night?" he said ok.

i guess i should of known he must not have felt good. although we cuddled a little in the morning, he certainly did not want anything else.

during the day i wrote out my answer. best word to describe my feeling was grateful. that he was still in my life, that God helped me find my way back to him. intensity 10+ i compared it to the gratitude i felt when i first held our oldest daughter (son was so different because of the loss of our middle child, i first held her after she had died). also compared it to a beautiful sunset that fills the sky with color and makes you just stop and look at it and thank God for the beauty of the world.

after kids were in bed i asked if we were still going to dialogue. he said we can just talk instead. i told him i already wrote my answer. after moments of silence, he said. "I felt empty". he felt absolutely nothing towards me. i didn't know what to say, we just sat there in silence. he asked me if i wanted to give him what i wrote. at first i said i couldn't. we sat there more, i got my paper and put it in the easter card i got him and gave it to him. after reading it he said, that was very nice. nothing else was said, he went to bed.

at some point i asked him, why he decided to have sex. he said he wanted to find out how it would feel. i asked if he was mad or was it more low self-esteem now, he said "i have no self-esteem."

in the morning, i hugged him from behind and told him i was not going anywhere, i loved him, i believed in us and i believed God would help us heal. no response.

yesterday was very long day, we went to his mom. no interaction of any kind occured really. at night he hugged me a little, i brought up his how he said he had no self-esteem. i said dont you understand, you are so wonderful and your love is so strong, you were able to reach me from such a deep hole i had put myself in and helped me believe in us again. i told him how incredible he is. no response.

i don't know what to do. i fear i can do nothing. i am just trying to keep order in our lives more than anything. i helped his mom a lot with dinner, and with her taxes. i am doing our taxes. keeping place clean, laundry done.

physically this is really getting hard. two nights ago, my heart was racing and pounding so hard. i felt it from the bottom of my stomach up into my neck. i could not get it to calm down. i ended up sitting up on the couch sleeping off and on until 2am. even then when i went to bed, it was beating so hard. last night i cried so much, i feel nausous and my head is pounding.

he still has no interest in reading any books or doing any counsoling.

this coming sat he will be going on his last business trip. he will not be back until thurs.

crazy as all this is, last few days, thougths of OM keep trying to creep in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> not that i am going to do anything about it. it just makes it even harder. he made me feel so good and safe for such a long time. mostly when i was sad about my marriage, he would let me cry in his arms and then tell me i was safe with him, it was just he and i, i could let it all out with him. and i would and then he would somehow make me smile and of course it would progress from there.

God, please help me have enough strength to bear this.

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,

I can only speak from my own experience. Your H has had such a devastating blow to his perception of self it is just not possible to explain it in words to someone who has not been there. He doesn't trust his intuition, his feelings, his logic. He doesn't trust anyone or anything around him. He doesn't feel valuable, and he doesn't feel like he has the strength or clarity of vision to find his place in the world. That is why he said he has no self esteem. He is totally lost. You absolutely did the right thing by reminding of his worth, and giving him specifics - his ability to lead you back to the M when you were so lost. Keep telling him! He needs to hear it and one day it will flash into his soul like sunlight from behind a thunderhead.

Again, drawing only from my own experience, I'd say he felt empty because his protective mechanisms are working full strength. Pretty normal, totally understandable. Other normal and understandable responses would have been disgust, repulsion, illness, joy, peace, elation. Emptiness suggests, to me, that his protective barriers are up. That's okay.

He turned to you. He asked you for more intimacy. He will ask you again, later, when he wants to put his toe in the waters and test his feelings again. You two are working as a team, depending on one another, leaning on one another, supporting one another. You are being honest and naked with one another. I truly think you two are building the foundation of a real M now -- one that is profound, deep, and intimate.

thanks TH. i really need to hear stuff like to help me from completely getting lost in my own pain.

yesterday was tough and i was an emotional mess, unable to smile, crying a lot. i manage to stay ok in front of the kids, but just ok. i am hoping they just think i am stressed because work is so hectic and having to do both our taxes and MIL taxes has been a lot of work this past week, plus i am making a dress for D (she is in a musical at school, parents are expected to provide customs). I will miss H when he goes on his trip but I am actually looking forward to being able to take a small break from watching his pain. i don't mean for that to sound selfish but maybe that is exactly what it is.

this morning, (while in a mtg at work!!) i jotted down notes as to what i need to keep focused on (co-workers assumed i was taking notes on mtg topic)

this was not put into any specific order.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My job: love him, love the kids, keep the household functioning, be available for any communication, pray, work on myself spiritually and physicall

Trust. trust H is working towards healing and will ask for whatever he needs to accomplish healing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we talked on the phone briefly about 1 1/2 hrs ago and i read him the above list. he said it was a good list. and i told him the hardest thing for me to hang onto was the trusting that he wants this to work out. he said he does.

FL,

If I could offer you one piece of advice it would be to CALM DOWN. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are doing well. Your H is doing better than you realize. He is struggling and he will struggle, but he is also healing. You reminding him of what he did and what you think about it will continue to help him. But please calm down, this stuff cannot be rushed it takes time.

I will offer you a physical corollary to what I am saying. One of my children had to have emergency surgery last week. The surgery went well, but there were complications. The child came home Sat. and by very very early Sun morning back at the hospital for more surgery to correct complications. Now has a stomach tube, is very tired, very wornout, really does NOT like that tube in his stomack, but is healing. Slowly healing, color is better, fluids are being administered, antibiotics are going in. THere is little motion, little activity because of the tube, yet healing is occuring. There is nothing I or his mother can do. Only a limited amount the Docs and nurses can do. He is fine, he is healing, he is not doing happy dances in his room. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Do you see the similarity? Do you see that your H is there with you? He requested intimacy with you, yes he felt empty, but that is not unusual be is conflicted right now. It will happen again, but more importantly as you go about your daily tasks, as you continue to show him by simple things that you care, that you love, that you want him around, he will heal. It takes time FL, nothing else will do.

So calm down, let him heal, don't blame yourself for everything because whether it is warrented or not, it is over. Your job is assist his healing.

Please don't be down.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I could offer you one piece of advice it would be to CALM DOWN. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well if there is anything i am absolutely NOT good at it is staying calm. which means your advice is right on the money.

although i guess i did manage to calm down after writing that list and sharing it with H.

i am sorry to hear about the health issue of your son. i hope it is not a serious issue and that he heals 100%.

i understsnd what you are trying to tell me. i am really not good at this!!!!!

sometimes i think about how much time (and how much of H's effort) it took for me to forgive H and allow myself to heal from the wounds of our relationship prior to the A. and then i think about how the state of our relationship prior to the A was not all his fault, it was both of us. and compare that to what is going on now, which is a wound caused 100% by me and i just don't know how he did it and even scarier is how am i really going to hold up and do it now.

this past weekend was so hard, this morning all i kept thinking is that i am just not capable of keeping myself feeling this vunderable anymore. something, somewhere is going to give.

i am not realistically thinking of doing anything rash but i have had mini thoughts. and that scares the sh*t out of me. it is nothing like it was when i really was suicidal. but this morning i was laying in bed and wondering what a person must be thinking and feeling when they slit their wrists, and i don't mean going across the wrist, i mean the ones that mean it, they do it down the vein, the blood must rush out so fast, that is how you do it when you really mean it. and i was wondering just how long it took before the person passed out. but then thoughts of the next part of that scenerio enter in, the part where a person discovers what has occured and that reminds me just how cruel and selfish suicide is. a co-worker committed suicide once. i used to work with him years before it happened. at the time it occured, i was working with his wife, it was terrible!!! she was the one that found him. they had a small son at the time. so sad.

i don't mean to be gruesome here but these are thoughts i am having and i can't share them with H. i do have the bad habit of digging my fingernails into some part of my body. when i am crying too much, that is the only thing that can calm me down, i force myself to keep pushing harder until the physical pain breaks thru and gets the attention of my brain. that habit is totally different than suicidal thoughts though.

I have been thinking of contacting a Dr to get meds, but i don't really want to do that. the only Dr i would consider contacting is my ob-gyn, she knows what is going on and she is very kind. she has known me for long time, when i had some cancer issue and subsequent hemeraging, and when we lost our daughter.

i am rambling here when i should be leaving office and going home. it is very hard for me to go home everyday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i know everything i am saying is just showing you all how selfish i still am. but then what is my alternative. isolate and hide?

but there are also times when i really do think i am doing a good job at all this. i honestly believe i am making good love deposits, i am not LBing although sometimes i wonder if being emotionally upset is a type of LB. it is certainly a selfish state to get caught up in.

i better go now before i end up being late.

FL,
Sorry I was away so long. JL is right about calming down, but I look at it another way. Its okay to be concerned and fearful, even worried, but your response is critical. What do you seek when you are wounded? Comfort and acceptance. Rejection really hurts, especially when the source is someone you love deeply. Just this morning I was depressed and down and I did not know exactly why. Did I seek meds or something that would soften the anxiety? No, what I sought was a living God who is always there. He did not answer right away, so I kept seeking Him. I really felt bad and then there he was speaking to me clearly. My brother, who I have very little contact with sent me an email that was perfect and timly. Only a God of love and grace could do that in His perfect timing. Then I heard a radio message about hypocracy and how your word needs to be proven through action and committment. The message was clear and He was saying don't let go, no matter what has happened. Don't give up because God never gave up on me. He never quit trying to reach me when I was rejecting Him.

FL, you need to keep seeking Him. You will find Him. His way is perfect and His power is real. God does not grant wishes, but He does promise to be there for you in the deepest turmoil and pain. Read Psalm 23. Read Isaiah 43. God does not say will will not experience pain and trouble in life, but he promises to be there with us and bring us through the trials.

I truly believe that most marriages fail because both spouses give up and seek the so called easy way. I know you won't give up or seek the easy way. I know you have pain in your past. You lost a child? I am so sorry for that pain. The only way to heal the past is to look forward to a future that is secure. Yes we'll have baggage, but guess who promises to bear our burdens? Jesus will bear our burdens and heal our wounds. So when you are down and defeated go to Him. He is always there waiting for you to come to Him and hold you close. He will never give up on you or forsake you. He will never reject you.

I promise that when you have that secure relationship with God, you will be able to give to your H even in the face of rejection. You need to acccept God's love, then you can love like him.

I will keep checking back, once the 15th is over I be back more. You guessed it, I do taxes so if you need help with those tax returns, just let me know. Just keep your head up and don't forget to smile.

Christ's Love,
Roman

FL,
I feel for you and your H. A few thoughts......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "I felt empty". he felt absolutely nothing towards me. i didn't know what to say, we just sat there in silence. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our MC said there are several stages to dealing with infidelity or any loss for that matter: disbelief, anger, indifference & acceptance as I recall. He also said that different people go thru these stages differently. Some have different orders and some have multiple stages overlapping at times.

Your H's behavior is in line with what I was feeling when my W told me. I was in shock, too. In my case I had suspicions of the PA and was posative of the EA. As Irecall your H didn't have the suspicions.

I completely agree with Just Learning........ </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I could offer you one piece of advice it would be to CALM DOWN. You are doing well. Your H is doing better than you realize. He is struggling and he will struggle, but he is also healing. You reminding him of what he did and what you think about it will continue to help him. But please calm down, this stuff cannot be rushed it takes time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try to relax a bit. Try not to hover & smother your H. I had to finally tell my W to "stop saying your sorry!" Her words started to sound hollow.

He will be watching you to see if the words match the actions. The best thing you can do is be loving, empathetic, kind & understanding when he needs it through your actions.

I believe that male BSs tend to bump around alot after discovery. By bump around I mean they tend to be silent. They are in their "cave." In their way they're dealing with the pain. They are going over the details all of the wheres, whats, whens & the most important the whys.

I was in my cave after the discovery. I examined every piece of information. If I examined the pieces once I examined them a 1,000 times. I think I still examine them.

The best analogy I've heard that comes close to explaining the feeling is that of a person who has survived a horrendous event like a plain crash. They need to keep talking about the "story" over & over again. It's not obsession. It's therapeutic.

Keep trying.

cwmac

Hey FL,

You know; one thing to remember is; this isn't a sprint you're running. It's a long distance race. So you got to b-r-e-e-a-t-h-e slowly and do the best you can to pace your self.

Yes, your H is going to have some really crappy days. but </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i said dont you understand, you are so wonderful and your love is so strong, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stuff like this every once in a while is reassurance for him. Whether or not he will tell you he needs it; he does. Reassurance that he is the one you love, and no one else. Over time this consistant message will get through to him.

You are doing very well and he does seem to be healing. I for one am very proud of how you are doing.

Many more blessings to you both.

S&C

Hi Roman,

Thanks for checking in with me during your busy times. Whether you post or not, i know you are out there reminding me to seek God. I am sorry to have to admit, monday morning when i was lying on the bed just wanting to cry and feel miserable, the thought of reading either from the Bible or the Beloved Disciple that i am reading did enter my mind. but i pushed it out, telling myself i didn't have the energy to read just then, that H might walk in on me, that i didn't really have that much time. well, the point is, it is at those exact times i need to make the choice to seek harder. i will say on my way to work i choice to listen to christian music and even that little bit did help.

ideally i would like to end each day doing a bit of reading, but i have been letting "stuff" (like taxes!!! our's and MIL's) to get in the way. ideally i would like to exercise everyday too, but i am not fitting that in much either (i am down about 6lbs though)

i really appreciate your gentle pushing and prodding to keep at spiritual growth. i agree with you, the amount of giving and loving one can do is greatly increased when you have a close and secure relationship with God.

cwmac, thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your perspective too. it helps a great deal. i don't think i am smothering him, in fact a lot of times i keep my distance. but i do make sure i find a way to tell him everyday that i love him and i am glad we are working toward healing.

S&C, thanks for your encouragement as well. sometimes i think i am doing ok and we are healing, sometimes i think it is just too much to bear. in either case i am trying to reassure him i want to live my life with him.

last night we talked a lot, till about 3am. it was tiring but it was good, it ended with SF, it was going to be just one-way, i didn't even want to have it go both ways, last night it was hard to have him touching me thinking about how it is for him, but he told me he really wanted to have sex too, so i said ok. it was very emotional(neg and pos) for me, for him, he said it was better than the first time.

we both seem to be doing better today.

FL..I haven't had too much time to get onto MB lately, but when I do, I try to keep up with my buddies, you, Chris, mrsx, stupidgirl and kiwij. I kind of feel like we are all in the same boat even though are situations are different. We are all the FWS and can understand each other for that reason. I'm so sorry that things haven't been going well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I believe that one misconception we have is that somehow we can wave a magic wand and make it all go away and we can't.

I have days where I thought I was totally over it all and had total victory...WRONG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> !! The thought came to me one day that I think that I should be stronger and not have weak days anymore but that's not possible. The thought occured to me that in order to get through this, I have to go through it. I can't "psych" myself out to make it better. These setbacks are all part of our ultimate healing.

The pain of the BS and WS has got to be shared openly and honestly in order to heal. My H and I never discuss it and that is not normal either. I think my H thinks that if we don't discuss it, it will go away. MB is my lifeline because this is where I get it all out, everything that I think and feel. I'm glad that your H is at least showing honest emotion even though it may not be what you would like to see.

FL,
Lisa made some great points about your situation. It seems that he is willing to open up a little more each day. Remember to reward him when he does. If he has a bad day and you feel a little rejected, don't withdraw, just let him know you love him and give him some space. I think there is a timetable for everyone and agree with Lisa that those who think it will heal on its own are in denial. Wounds take care. Your love for your H can be that care. I still believe that one person can save a M and can influence their mate. Real sacrificial love can work miricles and if applied consistantly over time cna change hearts.

The hard part is how our spouse's mood will have such a big impact on how we feel. When they are loving, we feel great, but when they reject, we feel defeated. I'm not sure we can control our reactions, but we can seek comfort and grace from God to endure it. We don't have to let our feelings control us. I know for me it is always a struggle, but I am learning. I am learning how to love unconditionally, the way God loves us. You are learning that too. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your H.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Hi Lisa, thanks for checking in. It is really nice to have so many caring people out there cheering my M on. This site is a God send!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm so sorry that things haven't been going well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know my posts can sound discouraging but a lot of the times i do actually believe things are going ok, at least in the right direction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I believe that one misconception we have is that somehow we can wave a magic wand and make it all go away and we can't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not sure what you are referring to here, at first i thought you meant the work of rebuilding the marriage but maybe you mean letting go of the OM? The work of re-building is hard but the prize, a truely fullfilling marriage is very much worth it. The work of letting go of the OM and any other OM for that matter might not truely ever be over, but i do believe it can get easier the more you lean on God. It is a crutch and it is very tempting to use crutches in our lives. I don't like that my thoughts are on a very small level looking at that crutch still sometimes. I believe the only way to overcome that desire is to stay busy and focused on the real world and on your goals.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thought came to me one day that I think that I should be stronger and not have weak days anymore but that's not possible. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have those same thoughts too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The pain of the BS and WS has got to be shared openly and honestly in order to heal. My H and I never discuss it and that is not normal either. I think my H thinks that if we don't discuss it, it will go away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mine is willing to let me talk about it, however, he does say much in return, but maybe that is just his way. He allows me to be the way i am and he listens to me. I need to allow him to be his way and respond to him in the way he needs. Problem is, I'm not 100% sure what that means on a practical level. I suppose he is telling me though, he just needs time and my patience. Yesterday evening he was quite, tired. I suggested we get to bed earlier and gave him a nice back rub and helped him get to sleep. The point is, he does not need me to listen to him talk or hold him while he cries, because it is not his way to talk or cry. he just needs me to be at his side supporting and loving him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm glad that your H is at least showing honest emotion even though it may not be what you would like to see. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i whole heartedly agree.

i am rambling, must just be the kind of mood i am in right now...

again thanks for your support.

Roman,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It seems that he is willing to open up a little more each day. Remember to reward him when he does. If he has a bad day and you feel a little rejected, don't withdraw, just let him know you love him and give him some space. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes, that is very very good advice.

The hard part is how our spouse's mood will have such a big impact on how we feel. ... We don't have to let our feelings control us. I know for me it is always a struggle, but I am learning.
[/QUOTE] same here. that really is the key to it all.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am learning how to love unconditionally, the way God loves us. You are learning that too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks, your continued support and kindness means a lot to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My thoughts and prayers are with you and your H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mine are with yours and your W as well. you mentioned you were struggling some a few mornings ago. you doing ok?? are you remembering to smile too?? no pressure to answer but please know, i am here to listen to your struggles and doubts too, anytime you would might want to share. take care.

FL,
Thanks for your concern about me. I do go through all the emotions and doubts, but it seems that there is always someone or somthing that keeps me going. You are one person who has made a significant difference and I thank you for that.

I always ask God to remove the circumstance and He always comes back with no. It seems I still have alot to learn. I am doing my best to stay positive. I love my W and want what's best for her. God knows that, so why does he keep me in this? What is that I am so thickheaded about? Today, it seemed like another day in a M that is moving forward, but at a snails pace. I want things to work out sooner, I want an answer now. It always seems to come down to my lack of trust in God and my impatience to wait on Him. So I would say this whole thing is about my changes. About my trust in God.

In reality, I have learned I control nothing. The only thing I have any control over is my behavior. Even that is limited by God's sovereignty. So what's left? If I control nothing, then why try? I could just give up and move on. But that is not how He works. He wants us to try and be loving and be like Him. He wants our complete trust in everything. He says I am to be salt and light in a fallen world. He wants us to persevere and endure all trials. How? We must trust that He is there at all times in control of all of or circumstances. That the whole time we are suffering, He is there, working for our good and His glory.

Yes, I hurt and have pain. Like you said, He removes the crutches that we think we need. He does that through trials and pain. It is when we learn to trust Him and not seek the crutches in our lives. He becomes our strength when we can't go another inch. He is teaching me those things. I see so many committed people here from all walks of life. You are one of them. Your committment helps others as does your honesty.

Keep in mind that we are going through these things and all the while we are learning about ourselves. My hope for all is that in the years ahead we can see all that God has shown us and have the marriages we all desire. I hope that the pain of these seasons in our lives are not wasted and that we can bring new life out of the ashes.

And yes I did smile whe I read your reply. You keep smiling too, these days will pass and God's word will not return to Him empty, but it will accomplish His purpose and desire for us.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Hey FL, I have been following your story and as BH I thought would chime in here. He IS doing much better than you think he is.

we had intercourse friday night

So the year thing was WAY off wasn`t it? Alot of healing has to take place for this to happen.

for me of course it was wonderful, very healing.

I hope you told him this. He needs to hear this.

in the morning, i still could not tell, i didn't want to push so i asked him if we could dialogue (comes from Retrouvaille, means you answer a question about feelings on paper, describing feeling only). the question i wanted to have us both answer was "How did I feel when we made love last night?" he said ok.

So why did you push? Don`t worry about how sex was for him its a real touchy subject for him still. He still has to deal with the movies playing in his head so when he`s not doing it. He really does not want to think about it.

after kids were in bed i asked if we were still going to dialogue. he said we can just talk instead. i told him i already wrote my answer. after moments of silence, he said. "I felt empty". he felt absolutely nothing towards me. i didn't know what to say, we just sat there in silence. he asked me if i wanted to give him what i wrote. at first i said i couldn't. we sat there more, i got my paper and put it in the easter card i got him and gave it to him. after reading it he said, that was very nice. nothing else was said, he went to bed.

EMPTY, this is a real good discription of what I felt. All my married life the thought that my W could love someone else never entered it. Not one single time. No matter what else happened in life there would always be US. From this comes a great deal of security, safty and strenth. On DDAY this is ALL ripped away from the BS. It leaves a big hole inside a BS. This is probably the emptyness he is describing.

at some point i asked him, why he decided to have sex. he said he wanted to find out how it would feel. i asked if he was mad or was it more low self-esteem now, he said "i have no self-esteem."

You really have to stop this. This is a LB. You rubbed the A in his face with the low self-esteem comment. Let the man heal, if he wants to talk about it he will.

yesterday was very long day, we went to his mom. no interaction of any kind occured really. at night he hugged me a little, i brought up his how he said he had no self-esteem. i said dont you understand, you are so wonderful and your love is so strong, you were able to reach me from such a deep hole i had put myself in and helped me believe in us again. i told him how incredible he is. no response.

You did great here, but all he probably heard was the self-esteem thing. That`s why you got no response IMO.

don't know what to do. i fear i can do nothing.

Sure you can. There is alot you can do. Go out with your H and start having fun again. Believe it or not he`s probably ready to have fun now. Let the dating begin. The R will follow. This was a BIG key in my M recovery. HUGE. Did I make that clear?

he still has no interest in reading any books or doing any counsoling.

So stop pushing and go have some fun together.

last night we talked a lot, till about 3am. it was tiring but it was good, it ended with SF, it was going to be just one-way, i didn't even want to have it go both ways, last night it was hard to have him touching me thinking about how it is for him, but he told me he really wanted to have sex too, so i said ok. it was very emotional(neg and pos) for me, for him, he said it was better than the first time.

Sex again? Already?..lol.. and it will keep getting better. Stop keeping score and have some fun again. Have I mentioned fun yet?