Well, here is a quick update. I was going to wait until she left so that I could sit down at the computer without taking time away from her and m'boy. Sleepless in Canada tonight so I thought I'd give a quick update.

The week seems to have gone quite smoothly. We are doing a lot of talking. Nothing really big, mind you, just talking. I'm following previously posted advice combined with Plan A (specifically not being demanding for answers or explanations) and finding it is not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. I feel like I've 'surrendered' to the situation and it has taken a lot of the pressure off me. I feel like I have given up my expectations and consequently it's harder to feel let down when they are not met.

We actively practiced negotiating for a POJA over several issues, one of which being her need to be near her son. Mini-dewt is NOT dealing with any of this well and he needs her back in his life just as badly. Not that I'm a bad Dad, 'cause I'm not... I'm actually dealing with single parent life and all it's demands, but let's face it; parenting is a team effort.

The long and short if it is that we looked at appartments and houses over the weekend and found one that would be big enough for us. It is ideally located and will allow us to have separate bedrooms. This is something that is important to Dylan and though it's not what I was originally hoping for, it's a darn sight better than the current scenario. Dylan has made it perfectly crystal clear that she's doing this for our son and NOT for 'us' or our marriage.

Also even if it wasn't what I was hoping for, she needs space and time to get this sorted out in her head and I want her to be able to do that. I know that our lives can never progress (one way or the other) until that happens.

She is still in contact with OP. I did not press her for details nor make any demands for no contact. That was pretty hard. She did say that she probably won't do the no contact thing until she leaves. I'm not really happy about that, but hey, it's not really my decision, is it?

I can see in her eyes that saying goodbye to OP is going to be very difficult. That hurts pretty bad. The fact that if she actually does go through with it (no contact) it would be for our son's sake and not the relationship's sake or for my sake is very difficult to deal with. I guess them's the breaks though and it will be something I will have to just deal with.

I take possesion of the new place at the end of this month. Dylan will be wrapping things up in the old town and moving in... I dunno exactly when. She would not give me a direct answer and I dropped it before I could start becoming demanding. Something was mumbled about 6 weeks. We'll see. My gut tells me OP is going to become big fixture in the picture over the next period. I hope it does not play to big a role in delaying Dylan's move. All else aside, the sooner she's here, the sooner we can get to work on stabalizing our son's universe and the sooner that happens, the happier I'll be.

I've also reached a kind of peace in regards to the affair and OP. I am enjoying this peace of mind and don't want it threatened. Clearly it will be threatened and I will deal with it. All things pass. This is like passing a bladder stone.

Anyway, I'll write more when I get the chance.

dewt

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

oh wow.. that is going to be hard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

last year after my H's affair ended he asked if he could come home, only because he had nowhere to go. I said NO right away but it wasn't easy to stick to. I wanted him home but knew he didn't want me, so I stuck to my guns. I was crying all the time anyway so having him on the couch while I was in our bed would have made it worse.

You know this is going to be hard for you right?

Yep. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

On the other hand, it's not like she has no other options. This is the one we chose together, using the POJA as a guide. It will give us a chance to learn to be together again. She may not want me now, but where's the guarantee that won't change? Conditions existed in our marriage that led to this horrendous state of affairs (no pun intended)and here is my opportunity to show that I will not allow those conditions to continue. Between that and th'ol love bank, this is a chance to give it another try.

I'm scared, apprehensive and full of anxiety. I'm hurting because her stated reasons for sharing living space do not include being with me or saving our marriage. At the same time, I'm grateful for the honesty. Who knows where this could lead?

I am thankful for MB, though. I have a suspicion I will be here a lot, and need all of the support and insight that I can get.

dewt.

Dewt it's your life and none of my business...but your plan scares me to the core....

I think you better make sure that you have boundaries set on both sides clear, strong, and without waver....

Is she still in contact with the OP....
is she going to date
are you..
what if....
how
who where
when......

I am conserned that this a bandaide under the guise of doing it for the child...when the niether of you hold a track record of putting the child first when things got tough....

and I don't mean that cruelly...i mean it as objectively as I can come accross with it.......
that actions define no matter what we speak...and both of you are very very fresh from breaking vows....
very recent...

I am very concerned about your esteem...and your wavering acceptance of her and her behaviors in your life...no matter the cost, the pain or whatever...
that you yourself at one point was less afraid of having her in the house even if that meant her being with someone else IN the house....

I hope and pray you are in SERIOUS counseling...
no excuses...none...on that issue...
infact couseling for you and her is more important than the logistics of where you or she sleeps....

she hasn't moved yet and you are already in emotional crisis...this is not going to get better...
and the crisis is sprung for each having different agendas etc...

please dewt..for your son...
imagine this NOT working in 6 months and once again your chid being exposed to his family being torn apart...

can't you give this more time without living together with no type of committment to anything???

If I were you I would not put the pieces back together without a map and plan that they are going to stay put...
other wise you are just toying again with you son's stability...

this is not to deny the importance of both parents in his life....but this may be the wrong route....

Dewt...I could be wrong.and it is none of my business...

but please please think this through more....

ark

Thank you Ark!! I was thinking things along those same lines but wasn't sure yet how to say it.

Dewt - your plan could actually lead to MORE pain for your child. Your wife wont' be any closer to ending the A because now there won't be any real consequences to choosing someone else (she'll still have her child AND a built in babysitter for when she wants to go out). Plus, by having some of her needs still met by you, she'll be able to continue the fantasy part of her A. You, on the other hand, will get the brunt of her frustration. She'll make SURE you know she isn't there for you and if you ever sqeak about her using this situation for her convienence she'll throw it in your face about how she TOLD you, how HONEST she was with you about why she's there.

I know this from experience. I did it to my H. I told him that OM and I were going to continue to be friends - just emailing and phone conversations. Yup, you know where that led. And because of the continued contact and REFUSAL by me to truly commit to the marriage, things got worse. My H went through hell while we were together. It hurt all of us to be apart, but our son was not exposed to the anger and frustration between us on a daily basis while we were apart - and it was the ONLY way I came to miss my H and what he meant to me in my life.

I understand you wanting to have even the slightest bit of hope that your wife will come back in to your life - but bowing to her demands will not keep her there, nor will it likely be a better situation for your son. It could completely warp his thoughts on committment and marriage. Surely you want better than this for him AND for yourself!!!

Rethink this plan....please.

deut,

I'm not as paranoid about this plan as the others, although I think you should run it by either Steve, Jenn or Penny. If you are going to be the "renter" here, and you can evict your wife should you need to go back to Plan B (and you can afford to keep the place on your own), I don't see too much of a downside. If Dylan is willing to try no contact, she's better off WITH you IF you can control lovebusters, and be supportive (Plan A). Even if she's at a crossroads and not quite ready to end the affair, you and your marriage benefits with a good Plan A if you can demonstrate changes that you need to make to have the marriage be a more attractive place for her to be at.

You really should begin counseling now. If she's not willing, you should still do it. She can provide your counselor with feedback on how you're doing in regards to changing/improving your marital behavior.

I don't think this adds a whole lot of instability to your son's environment right now---frankly, it's not very stable to begin with.

As far as her reasons for trying this---don't give those any weight. They don't matter. What matters is actions. If she can come back---great. If she can commit to no contact---better. If she can commit to counseling---terrific. I don't care whether is for the marriage, your son, or the fact that you make the world's best Mai-tai---you shouldn't be bothered about the reason. You should concern yourself with putting a plan in place to recover this marriage.

Remember to get into counseling. And remember that this situation is not forever---Plan A is meant to separate the affair partners. If she's still seeing the OP in another 3-6 months, it'll be time to show her the door via Plan B.

Dewt it's your life and none of my business...but your plan scares me to the core....

I think you better make sure that you have boundaries set on both sides clear, strong, and without waver....

Is she still in contact with the OP....
is she going to date
are you..
what if....
how
who where
when......

NO, NEITHER ONE OF US IS GOING TO DATE, OR EVEN THINK OF ENTERING RELATIONSHIPS……CELIBACY SEEMS AT THIS POINT, TO BE THE BEST OPTION FOR US….AND THE SAFEST…

I am conserned that this a bandaide under the guise of doing it for the child...when the niether of you hold a track record of putting the child first when things got tough....

and I don't mean that cruelly...i mean it as objectively as I can come accross with it.......
that actions define no matter what we speak...and both of you are very very fresh from breaking vows....
very recent...

I WON’T TAKE IT CRUELLY EITHER, BUT, TO TELL THE TRUTH, WHEN THINGS GOT TOUGH, WE DID PUT OUR CHILD FIRST…DEWT AND I AGREED THAT MY MENTAL STATE AND THE STATE OF OUR LIVES DICTATED THAT MINI-DEWT SHOULD GO WITH DEWT….I ALSO FELT THAT DEWT WAS GOING THROUGH SO MUCH, THAT I TRULY FEARED FOR HIS SAFETY…I FELT THAT BY HANDING OVER RESPONSIBILITY FOR MINI-DEWT TO DEWT, WELL,…….DEWT WOULD NOT BE TEMPTED TO DRIVE STRAIGHT THROUGH A CURVE (SO TO SPEAK), AND WOULD HAVE THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON IN THE WORLD TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF AND NOT FOLLOW HIS USUAL PATERN OF SELF-DESTRUCTION…..


I am very concerned about your esteem...and your wavering acceptance of her and her behaviors in your life...no matter the cost, the pain or whatever...
that you yourself at one point was less afraid of having her in the house even if that meant her being with someone else IN the house....

I hope and pray you are in SERIOUS counseling...
no excuses...none...on that issue...
infact couseling for you and her is more important than the logistics of where you or she sleeps....

COUNSELLING WILL INDEED BEGIN AS SOON AS IT CAN…

she hasn't moved yet and you are already in emotional crisis...this is not going to get better...
and the crisis is sprung for each having different agendas etc...

please dewt..for your son...
imagine this NOT working in 6 months and once again your chid being exposed to his family being torn apart...

DEWT HIMSELF EXPRESSED THESE CONCERNS LAST NIGHT…..AGAIN, AN INSTANCE WHERE NEGOTIATION AND POJA COME INTO PLAY….

can't you give this more time without living together with no type of committment to anything???

If I were you I would not put the pieces back together without a map and plan that they are going to stay put...
other wise you are just toying again with you son's stability...

this is not to deny the importance of both parents in his life....but this may be the wrong route....

THESE ARE INDEED CONCERNS THAT NEED TO BE ADRESSED….


Dewt...I could be wrong.and it is none of my business...

WE ARE POSTING ON A PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD….AND ASKING FOR ADVICE…OF COURSE IT’S YOUR ‘BUSINESS’….

but please please think this through more....

ark


hope4future

Thank you Ark!! I was thinking things along those same lines but wasn't sure yet how to say it.

Dewt - your plan could actually lead to MORE pain for your child. Your wife wont' be any closer to ending the A because now there won't be any real consequences to choosing someone else (she'll still have her child AND a built in babysitter for when she wants to go out). Plus, by having some of her needs still met by you, she'll be able to continue the fantasy part of her A. You, on the other hand, will get the brunt of her frustration. She'll make SURE you know she isn't there for you and if you ever sqeak about her using this situation for her convienence she'll throw it in your face about how she TOLD you, how HONEST she was with you about why she's there.

ACTUALLY, OW WILL BE 5 HOURS AWAY, IN ANOTHER PROVINCE….THERE WILL BE NO A…… AND IF THIS PLAN WERE TO TRULY COME TO FRUITION, THEN NO, DEWT WOULD NOT BE A BUILT IN BABYSITTER….THERE WILL BE NO CONTACT WITH OW….AND I DON’T GO OUT…..UNLESS IT IS TO GO TO WORK……MY SON IS GONE, MY H IS GONE, LIFE IS RIPPED APART….THERE IS NO FANTASY TO MY A…..REALLY……ASK DEWT….REALITY HAS THE FOREFRONT POSITION….FANTASY IN MY A WOULD BE ME THINKING EVERYTHING IS PEACHY AND DEWT AND MINI-DEWT ARE JUST FINE AND DANDY ..…I DO NOT LIVE IN THAT PARTICULAR FANTASY….

I know this from experience. I did it to my H. I told him that OM and I were going to continue to be friends - just emailing and phone conversations. Yup, you know where that led. And because of the continued contact and REFUSAL by me to truly commit to the marriage, things got worse. My H went through hell while we were together. It hurt all of us to be apart, but our son was not exposed to the anger and frustration between us on a daily basis while we were apart - and it was the ONLY way I came to miss my H and what he meant to me in my life.

WELL, I HAVE TOLD DEWT THAT OW AND I WILL NOT AND CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE FRIENDS….BEYOND BEING AN MB RULE,
IT JUST MAKES NO SENSE IN A REALITY-BASED WORLD……THERE WILL BE NO FRIENDSHIP…NO E-MAILS. NO PHONE CONVERSATIONS……OUR SON HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO ALMOST NIL IN THE ARENA OF ANGER, FRUSTRATION, ETC…….WE DO NOT DO THAT IN FRONT OF HIM, AND IN THE PAST 10 YEARS, HAVE HAD VERY LITTLE OF THAT FOR HIM TO EXPERIENCE…..DEWT AND I BOTH ARE CONFLICT AVOIDERS, AND SO HAVE HAD VERY LITTLE VERBAL CONFLICT…ONLY IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS (SINCE THE SEPARATION) HAVE WE HAD HARSH WORDS…..AND THEN, ON THE PHONE, NOT IN FRONT OF MINI-DEWT….


I understand you wanting to have even the slightest bit of hope that your wife will come back in to your life - but bowing to her demands will not keep her there, nor will it likely be a better situation for your son. It could completely warp his thoughts on committment and marriage. Surely you want better than this for him AND for yourself!!!

THESE ARE NOT MY DEMANDS….DEWT IS BOWING TO NOTHING…..WE BRAINSTORMED OPTIONS….AS HARLEY SAYS TO DO WHEN NEGOTIATING POJA…..THIS PLAN IS WHAT WE BOTH CAME UP WITH……I HAVE MADE NO DEMANDS OF DEWT…..NONE……..WHAT MAY WARP OUR SONS THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE AND COMMITMENT ARE PERHAPS THE TIMES DEWT’S GIRLFRIEND SLEPT OVER……WITH OUR CHILDREN THERE…..MOM BEING AROUND IS NORMAL FOR HIM, AND BECAUSE HE HAS SEEN VERY LITTLE ANGER AND HOSTILITY, MINI-DEWT ACTUALLY THINKS HIS PARENTS ARE GOING THROUGH SOMETHING WEIRD, BUT HE KNOWS WE LOVE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH….

Rethink this plan....please.

EVERYTHING IS AN OPTION RIGHT NOW…..WE ARE STRUGGLING WITH IT ALL, BUT TO THE BOTH OF US, RIGHT OR WRONG, MINI-DEWT AND OUR FAMILY CORE ARE WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON….MINI-DEWT NEEDS US…BOTH……


DYLAN

K said...
I'm not as paranoid about this plan as the others, although I think you should run it by either Steve, Jenn or Penny. If you are going to be the "renter" here, and you can evict your wife should you need to go back to Plan B (and you can afford to keep the place on your own), I don't see too much of a downside. ,..

IF there was no young child involved I wouldn't care what they did...but even this advice if it doesn't work out evict your wife....

the pain the confusion the potential position this sets the child up for loss is what concerns me ....

TO TELL THE TRUTH, WHEN THINGS GOT TOUGH, WE DID PUT OUR CHILD FIRST…DEWT AND I AGREED THAT MY MENTAL STATE AND THE STATE OF OUR LIVES DICTATED THAT MINI-DEWT SHOULD GO WITH DEWT

see my understanding is that you left the child to be with dad to be with an OP...then Dewt went out and had an affair (again)...the words don't equal the actions.....
which does not mean you don't mean well...
or don't want to do what's right...
the reality is that the recent track record speaks differently...AND couple that with the fact that it is also my understanding that you both have worked through a prior affair....and go back and repeat all this chaos again...

what do they say..the best predictor of future behavior ....is past behavior...

My advice is regardless of financial and other issues do not put the cart before the horse....and move in together with no agreement too really commit to this marriage and work it out...

anything else smacks of convenience for the adults....and if with no comittment it doesn't have to work..one or the other can be gone again...puts the child at risk for harm....

I am also very concerned about dewt's self esteem and coping mechanisms.....the occurance of false hopes....self destructive behaviors etc...

AND if you both do this in the name of the child..for the child...
then neither of have to concern yourselfs with the needs of the other at all...
they hold no value in the reason for you two being together....anything goes...as long as you both are "there" for the child....


I guess people do live together and not be 'married' and find some happiness in that..but if that's not what both of you want right now...then why go there?

Dewt clearly wants this marriage fixed...
if you can't commit to trying to fix it...I don't think it is fair for you to go back in to the home...yet,,
puts a lot of people at risk for pain and loss again....

I would suggest serious couple/marriage counseling prior to moving back in again....

ARK

Dylan,

If you guys can commit to ending your affairs, eliminating the lovebusters, and getting into counseling with someone who will help you rebuild the "love" that you've both been seeking---you'll do fine. And doing that for and through the common bond of your child is as compelling a reason as any.

Good luck, and may God help both of you in this endeavor.

Dylan,

I didn't realize that you post here also. I'm glad to hear that things aren't as up in the air, plan wise, as it sounded. It was our love for our son that kept us working together as a team and eventually brought us back together and in love again. I'm glad to hear that you feel that your sons needs outweigh yours as well. So many parents don't!

Good luck to you and Dewt! I hope you become another success story eventually!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
<strong>

Not that I'm a bad Dad, 'cause I'm not... I'm actually dealing with single parent life and all it's demands, but let's face it; parenting is a team effort.

Dylan has made it perfectly crystal clear that she's doing this for our son and NOT for 'us' or our marriage.

Also even if it wasn't what I was hoping for, she needs space and time to get this sorted out in her head and I want her to be able to do that. I know that our lives can never progress (one way or the other) until that happens.

She is still in contact with OP. I did not press her for details nor make any demands for no contact. That was pretty hard. She did say that she probably won't do the no contact thing until she leaves. I'm not really happy about that, but hey, it's not really my decision, is it?

I can see in her eyes that saying goodbye to OP is going to be very difficult. That hurts pretty bad. The fact that if she actually does go through with it (no contact) it would be for our son's sake and not the relationship's sake or for my sake is very difficult to deal with. I guess them's the breaks though and it will be something I will have to just deal with.

My gut tells me OP is going to become big fixture in the picture over the next period. I hope it does not play to big a role in delaying Dylan's move. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And here I thought you were just having a cup of tea....you insomniac!...lol

I would never have you believe or let you believe that you are a bad dad...oh my gosh....you are one of the best parental units I know...yes, there have been errors, mistakes made...we have discussed them, and both acknowledge that nothing can be done to "undo" them, but we can minimize the damage done to mini-dewt through better parenting together....

I didn't think of it as "crystal clear", but right now, the focus must be on mini-dewt...I can make no promises, and believe that one step at a time...baby steps and all, is the way to go....I wish I could committ more fully, but I think you, Dewt, understand....one thing at a time...mini-dewt is more important than either one of us right now....

I thank you for the understanding of space and time...regardless of the OP.....there are things I need to do, go through, right or wrong, for me....by me...and these things do not involve, include, or have anything to do with OP...

my eyes perhaps reflect shame and guilt....nothing about any of this is easy, nor is it going to be...but no contact would not be for our son's sake...I think you may have misinterpreted that....no contact would be and is going to be for us....for your security....saying goodbye...difficult....perhaps, but as you know, I'm not really 100% "there" either, so.....I do not agree with OP being or becoming bigger in the picture....the role of OP is already incredibly diminished.....and with the news of my move (not totally unanticipated by OP), I do not see her becoming a "fixture"....to tell the truth, OP is not the core issue as to whether my move would be delayed....the auction, the sorting, packing, affording the truck required, etc...the day to day realilties of a provincial move and the financial aspect of everything is a much bigger part of the scenario than OP is....

in other words, Dewt, I do not think OP will make any desperate "grab" or manipulation, etc....she is not like that...she will go on, be hurt, etc...but there will be no desperate attempt to keep me in her life..


Dylan

Dylan:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mini-dewt is more important than either one of us right now....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And to put mini-dewt's welfare to the forefront, it would be best to start the process of recommitting to the marriage. Not saying that you're going to try, or seeing if things will work out. But rolling up your sleeves and saying---this must be done.

mini-dewt's welfare hinges on you and dewt making a success of the marriage. If you don't (and I'll say "choose not to"), no matter how good the two of you handle a divorce, it will affect him in a negative way.

I know that you don't feel emotionally ready to take that step. But I do strongly suggest that you get into the counseling---so that your counselor can help you navigate around these emotional landmines that you're facing, and get to the point where you can start.

Hey all,

I gotta say that I was really suprised and touched to find so many replies waiting for me when I got home from work. Thank you all so much!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This is my last evening with Dylan, so I'm not going to reply tonight. (But I have read and we have lots to talk about) Tomorrow evening I'll be driving her to the bus and may not get back in time to reply then either... The night after that I will make a whole pot of tea and type my little heart out.

Again, thanks so much! I'm really touched by all the support and advice and poignant questions and... well, you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt

Well, she's gone now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It was really awesome having my best friend back, even if it was only for a week. Things seemed to have gone really well between us.

Goodbye was poignant. One thing... she mentioned she was feeling 'faith'. That's a big thing. I wish I knew exactly what she meant. Sigh.

On a not so happy note, OW is going to meet her at the bus station to drive her home (1hr drive) and that's difficult for me to swallow even though I was never led to expect anything else.

I just called to let her know Mini and I got home ok and there's no answer, so of course my imagination is going into overdrive.

Hey, maybe they're parked in the driveway and Dylan thought long and hard on the busride home and is right now, at this very moment, giving OW the no-contact speech. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My biggest challenge is going to be to not ask about it tomorrow. Gaaaaaah.

Well, that's the latest.

dewt

Deut,

Dylan is suffering an addiction with regards to the OP right now. It's not right or wrong---it's just an emotionally charged situation that she feels (relatively) helpless to control. You can tell her how to do no contact, I can tell her, Steve or Jenn can tell her---but she will have to do it for herself. And then, predictibly, she will go through a withdrawal period where she's pretty miserable. And if you're truly lucky, it's all gonna be your fault. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This is an opportunity for you to demonstrate new marital behavior. By restraining yourself from asking for information you don't really need (ask yourself "how will this make Dylan feel if I ..."), you can help her with this healing process. When she moves back, try to spend as much time with her as she will allow, and meet those needs she's willing to let you meet in the way she wants them met (assuming you can commit to doing this for the next 60 years). Just think "kindness, compassion, patience."


If she's unable to let go of the OP, then you'll have a decision to make regarding Plan B. But you really ought to have demonstrated to Dylan a true effort with regard to your marriage and to her best interests. She should be able to easily recognize that you've done nothing other than attempted to be the best life partner that you can for her, and that you are dedicated to her happiness---even when you're doing it through trying circumstances.

Let's hope that it doesn't get there. Now, get to work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey K,

Warning... bad day today... lots of venting to follow...

So far, I haven't asked. I had a horrible day today though, thinking of Dylan and OW together last night. My 'gut' is screaming and I've learned it's usually right. Still, I second guess it when I don't want to believe what it's telling me. I hope like heck I'm wrong.

I'm just so hurt that she is still in contact. I keep hoping that out of respect for me and my feelings, for what we talked about all week, as a show of faith in our potential, she would face that addiction and break it. It's so hard for me to understand because when I was faced with this it took me all of 3 seconds to make up my mind and commit fully. I remember thinking 'no contact'? Of course no contact! What kind of azz would still have contact? I just don't understand how she can still see her even though she knows what it's doing to me. She knows... like really knows...

Dylan is suffering an addiction with regards to the OP right now. It's not right or wrong---it's just an emotionally charged situation that she feels (relatively) helpless to control.You can tell her how to do no contact, I can tell her, Steve or Jenn can tell her---but she will have to do it for herself.

I know it's an addiction, even though she claims she has 'distance'... But she is making all these decisions. How can she feel helpless to control? How many posts did she put up here over the years? How many 2x4s did she wave around back then? I just don't understand. She knows how to do no contact. She also knows how important it is... for me, for her and also (indirectly) for mini-dewt.

I haven't actually asked her to do no contact. I want to so bad, but I know it has to come from her. Sometimes I think I'm going to ask anyway, but I don't because I'm afraid of what it will do to me when she says 'no'. Right now I feel like my desire to save this is the only thing giving us half a chance and sometimes that desire is over-run by the horror. Everyone makes mistakes... we all get off track sometimes... but this... this is continuous. She can see me hurting but keeps on keeping on...

And then, predictibly, she will go through a withdrawal period where she's pretty miserable. And if you're truly lucky, it's all gonna be your fault.

Hmmm. Withdrawal I know will be coming. That saddens me. All my fault? Hmmm. Better cross that bridge when I come to it.

This is an opportunity for you to demonstrate new marital behavior. By restraining yourself from asking for information you don't really need (ask yourself "how will this make Dylan feel if I ..."), you can help her with this healing process.

Ok, this makes sense. I will renew my decision to not ask any questions. Grrrr... asking questions is a demand... a lovebuster for her. Being left in the dark is lovebuster for me. I see the reason for the time limit on Plan A. I do want her to heal, and I don't want to drive her away, but at the same time, I can only take so much. Most of the time I'm fairly ok. I did really awesome all week while she was here, but it's like a dam has opened and everything I swallowed all week and the fact that she was with OW last night is just really overwhelming me right now.


When she moves back, try to spend as much time with her as she will allow, and meet those needs she's willing to let you meet in the way she wants them met (assuming you can commit to doing this for the next 60 years). Just think "kindness, compassion, patience."[b]

When she's around, I do a lot better. I can see her face and have learned to read her fairly well over the years. This distance is making things really difficult. I don't even know when she's moving back... a month? 6 weeks? 3 months? When she's not around and I can't even ask her any questions, I'm completely in the dark which makes being stable and strong incredibly difficult.

[b]If she's unable to let go of the OP, then you'll have a decision to make regarding Plan B.

She said she will probably go no-contact when she moves. That will suck. Then I will be left with the feeling that for all the effort and pain I'm facing right now she really isn't all that committed to making things work. Which, if you stop and think for a second, is exactly what she told me. Hmmmm...

But you really ought to have demonstrated to Dylan a true effort with regard to your marriage and to her best interests. She should be able to easily recognize that you've done nothing other than attempted to be the best life partner that you can for her, and that you are dedicated to her happiness---even when you're doing it through trying circumstances.

I understand, and believe me, I get it. I'm tired and hurt and venting today and will probably really feel more rational after a good nights sleep.

Let's hope that it doesn't get there. Now, get to work!

Ok. Thanks for posting and thanks for sitting through my whining.

Well, I did very poorly there. Had mini-dewt's evening talk with Mom and then I got on the phone to discuss the schools referal for mini to get counselling. (hopefully that will be soon)

Anyway, I slipped and before I realized what I was doing, I was asking. Was told that someone else picked her up last night. Feeling kind of silly kind of glad until she said she had not seen OW 'yet'. That let the wind out of my sails.

I feel like I was doing better with my half-baked plan B... at least then I wasn't asking and went day to day missing her instead of wallowing in how much she keeps hurting me.

Must keep perspective. At this time she does not officially want to reconcile, so I should not expect her to act like it.

Keep perspective.

dewt

At this time she really doesn't seem to have committed to anything - least of all the marriage. I would keep your expectations and hopes pretty low until/unless she makes a decision as to what she's actually going to do.

That's just what I'm trying to do... keep hopes high and expectations low. It is extremely difficult sometimes.

Mostly I'm ok, but today... gahhhh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

dewt

I'm ok now.

I've had a cup of tea and a few moments of peace. I realize that I'm really upset because I miss her so much. I'm so scared. Hurt...

...and for a week, we hung out together and had (from my point of view and I think hers too) a pleasant visit. I almost forgot all this was happening. Now I'm remembering.

It caught me off guard.

I think I've got it under control now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm sitting here posting to myself. Is that better or worse than talking to yourself? I think I need counselling.

dewt