Hi Mom.
Do you know how to edit your posts?

If not (or maybe some others need to know)
just click on that 'little tablet and pencil' above your message and you can erase what you accidently wrote under your husband's ID.

Then click on 'Edit Post'...Simple! I just used it to change a misspelled word!
Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Thanks BT...I'll do that right now...I am also not very good at the HTML codes.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

supposed to be moms post!

oops, mom's post

Oh boy, I can tell it is going to be ONE OF THOSE DAYS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mom and others.
If you want to use 'BOLD' on a word or sentence, just put [ b ] (no spaces) before the word or sentence and [ /b ] (no spaces) after the word or sentence and it will be in 'BOLD'
Same way for italics, use an i instead of a b

Julie:)

Mom, maybe if you would put H's ID and password in an envelope marked DAD, it would help you not to accidently use his when you sign-in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I feel for you, dear, it is a hard time for you with husband being 'smitten' with this OW.

If you could just fast forward your life to a year or two from now, I think you would have a peaceful heart...the stress of the affair would be over...one way or the other.
(H would either be home or gone!)
Sincerely, Julie

P.S. I feel empathy for you also 'whiteknight', and hope your future can be happy with your wife again and the OW can just be a memory!
And that the memories of the 'heartache of the affair' will outweigh the 'BLISSFUL memories'!

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Chris,

An affair, by definition is selfish. They (ws) are doing it for their own satisfaction. Not one single affair occurs to “benefit” the bs. They occur without ANY regard for the the bs.

My thanks for the voice of reason. My martyr/sainthood comment was just a facetious response to the general all-encompassing, "All WS are selfish." I'm a WS, but do I perceive myself to be a selfish person? No. And I would like to think that my BS, while at first I would expect this question to elicit a snicker from her, would also agree. For the most part (save some real bonehead decisions - including my A), I would think of myself as a good man and, in that sense, my definition of such is to care for and love my wife and my family.

However, do I at times exude selfishness? Sure. find me a person who doesn't. But that does not qualify me - or every WS for that matter - as a stereotypically selfish lot.

It would be equally as assenine to stereotypically group all BSs as frigid, uncaring, apathetic, too fat/too skinny/boobs too small/penis too small, unloving, cold, etc...or any of the other multitude of 'reasons' that us WSs provide when attempting to qualify our indiscretions. Generally labeling, characterizing ALL of a certain people in this manner is not only unfair, but is downright dangerous. No matter what the forum.

I can image the situation, wk. I was at a business trip with a co-worker. We were drinking. He was very attentive, sexy, charming. We started talked about the problems with our marriage. I had always found him attractive. He said all the things to me that I have been longer to hear from a man. His kiss was wonderful, but...

I said no. I wanted to have sex with him so badly. To hear those compliments, to enjoy the new experience. I really, really wanted to. BUT we didn't. Why? Because I knew he really loved his wife and kids. Because, even with the problems with my marriage I loved my H and having an affair would be the worst thing I could do to him. How could I ever tell my D what was right if i had had a PA.

Even as angry as I was with my H for his EA, I couldn't have a PA behind his back.

So, yes, the allure of a PA is very strong. But it is still a choice YOU made. So I'm a BS, not a WS. That's my lot. I do understand some of the reason for being a WS, but not all. If one person in the A had just thought and said NO! then there would be no A. You made a choice, the OW made a choice. The BS had no vote in the A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by moc:
<strong> Chris,

My thanks for the voice of reason.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chris was being no more reasonable than I was. WSs ARE stereotypicaly selfish. Period.

Selfishness is the sole driving force - supported by dopamine coursing thru their brains.

That said, when WSs end the affair and come clean with their spouses, they stop being a WS and can return to "normal", intermitant periods of selfish behavior - stereotypical of humans.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is true that I have still not told her. I am amazed she does not know; especially considering the way OW is lashing out against me. Maybe she's in deniel. I don't know. We don't talk about it. Truth be told, I have not told her because I don't want her to be hurt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ahhh....the old "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" line.

It's time to stop fooling yourself and face the music. You wrote the music and the lyrics, now is the time to step and take responsibility for them.

All of the stuff you posted originally are about "feelings." Love isn't about feelings or infatuation. Love is a decision and a commitment. You CHOOSE to act in a "loving" manner and the "feelings" follow. It applies to anyone, including your wife.

But honesty is also a vital part of it. And you chose to run instead of fight for your marriage.

You chose to believe that you are "owed" all those wonderful feelings and now you want to use that as an excuse for a willful choice to deny the sanctity and covenant of your marriage.

Your definition of love is at best "puppy love." But mature love deals with problems and focus' on being the servant of our spouse even if we don't "feel like it." Mature love stays faithful even if a physical condition rendered your spouse incapable of sex.

Mature love takes responsibility and says "I'm sorry."

Time to be mature, don't you think?

Forever

I needed to hear that too.
Powerfull.
H

wat,

No, there is a HUGE difference. While Chris characterized an action you've branded a group of people through no knowledge other than that sole action.

Again, as you say, all WSs are selfish. by that, since I'm a WS, you're implying that I am a selfish human being. How can you? You don't know me. You have not spent time with me. You don't know what I do on a daily basis, what my profession is, how I treat others, how I discipline my kids, what I have, what I don't have, what I wish for, where I've been or what has guided me to become what I've become.

Without ever even having sat down with me and had a measly 15 minute conversation you have somehow, in your supreme unquestionable knowledge, branded and labeled me as selfish. However, having never sat down with you for 15 minutes, I can conclude a) that for however knowledgable you claim to be on this and that you still lack the insight to realize when you're incorrect and b) maybe your own set of circumstances have left you with such an internal bitterness that, through no admission of your own, would cloud any judgement in jumping to (what would in your mind be foregone) conclusions.

Here's the big picture...want to make generalized characterizations based on limited knowledge - don a white hood and robe and harken us back the days of ignorance . Until then, from a logical standpoint, the best hypothesis are promoted to theory and law based on the incessant gathering of information and experimentation. You and I haven't even had a 15 minute conversation and you claim to know this intimate feature of my personality? Complete and utter nonsense.

Know what? Your nose is too big!

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: moc ]</small>

I don't know how I missed this topic, but it is probably a good thing I did initially. I cannot believe the total and complete selfishness of the person that would enter into an affair and somehow justify it because it made them feel good. Well guess what, I wish I was 16 and in love for the first time again too. I too have been tempted by attractive people and wondered what it would be like to relive that "beginning of the relationship" moment. Does anyone who has been married for any length of time not miss that feeling sometimes? But because I love my H and my kids it never got past the first thought. I have my own fantasies too, but I never tried to make them a reality because I am intelligent enough to know that fantasies are only temporary feel good fixes - much like an AFFAIR. Unfortunately, the pain and agony caused by the aftermath of this little fantasy that you and all other WS's chose to act out is reality for all the BS's out there. I guarantee that if my H EVER implied that I need to give him more sexual satisfaction without any thought to my feelings I would ask him to leave. What is wrong with you WS's????????????? What you implied in this post is beyond cruel to the BS's on this board. What you did is nobodies fault but your own - you made the decision to act out your fantasy.

Moc, are you saying that it WASN'T selfish of you to have an affair? If that isn't selfish, I dont know what is....That when you stepped over that line, you weren't thinking of YOU and only YOU...you weren't thinking of your wife and kids if you have them...the impact of an A would have on them...NO YOU WEREN'T!!! That my friend makes you "SELFISH"...and if you were thinking of them, you wouldn't have stepped over the boundries..PERIOD!

moc - ...and you apparently don't read closely enough.

Yes, based on my accumulated and regretful level of knowledge of infidelity, I satnd by my statement that WSs are universally selfish.

I suspect you're defensive because you consider yourself to still be a WS?

Go back and read my last post.

I'm not saying that you're selfish today. I don't know you so I can't make that statement.

But you were selfish when you were in the act of being a WS. All WSs are. Chris' statement is saying the same thing.

Nonetheless, I do have a big nose.

WAT

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Geeze.

Moc,

Not that WAT needs any "defending" here but you need to go back and reread his last response.WS's ARE selfish when they make the DECISION to cheat on their spouses.What else would you call it? You keep harping on the premise that WS's are ALWAYS selfish.

Some are and so are some BS's but WAT said that when WS's end their A's and come clean with their S's then they return back to "normal" intermittently selfish behaviours(hopefully not as extremely painful as an A).

O

In reference to all WS being selfish, I would like to compare the feelings that one has when they reach the point of no return in an affair to something I read a long time ago about what goes on in someone's head when they are about to commit suicide. It is very easy to say that the perosn who killed themself was selfish, but in all actuality they were in a lot of pain, and all they can think about at the last moments of their life is how to end the horrible pain. They are not thinking about their fmaily or friends or house or cats or the Grandy Canyon or anything. They are thinking about ending the pain.

I don't think there is any one answer to why someone allows another to kiss them or touch them or lets a crush go to far. Some people think ahead, some are spontaneous. Some people are involved in cults. Some are atheists. Some are religious. Some monkeys can be trained to drive. Some are dumb as a box of rocks. We're all different. I can try to justify my A all I want, but the truth is, I should have known better. No kidding. Maybe I old myself it might actually lead somewhere. After all, some people are happier in second or third marriages. What did I know? I didn't.

But I do admit I was selfish. I should have looked ahead. I should have eveluated what I was doing. I should have walked away. I've done it before. I've shot down girls in th past who actually accused me of being gay afterword! But AT THE POINT OF NO RETURN, I was NOT thinking of my W or anyone else. My mind was blank. The whole world disappeared. Nothing existed. I entered the FOG.

Maybe this reveleation will help some BS. A lot of WS were probably like me. We did NOT think about you. Sorry. Maybe it's temporary insanity. Maybe we were kidnapped by aliens and lost our way. I don't know. But I do know that my W was not a thought in my head at the time and that was wrong and it will NEVER happen again. That is one thing for certain in the life.

So now everyone is waiting for me to tell my W. OK, fine. You are all right. I just don't know how to do it. When and where does this happen?

Also, I want to ask her NOT to tell her family and best friends. I want her to come here instead. I ca handle working things out with her if no one else knows, but I can't live the rest of my life, seeing her family and friends and having them look at me as the cheating scum that I am. AM I WRONG TO MAKE THIS REQUEST?

WK

I don't know if you are wrong or not. I can tell you that everyone knows about my WH's A. I mean even the pediatrician and the damn video store guy. Word travels so be prepared. It can be just as embarrassing for the BS as it is the WS. The OW in my case is butt ugly and fat as a whale. So that really did nothing for my confidence what so ever. My WH is very embarrassed at work and other places. He has lost total respect from everyone. Even his own parents are disgusted with him. It is hard for the WS when people find out. The strange thing is after all of that he is still with the OW, so it can't be that bad or he is so deep in the fog he doesn't care yet.

I envision someday he will care though. I am waiting for that day to come. When me and the OW are standing side by side and he says oh my god what have I done.

I can't answer your question but I can tell you it is embarrassing all the way around. Maybe if you tell you W that you don't want everyone to know she will respect that, maybe she will also think that it would be embarrassing for her as well. Maybe you could get her to come here instead. We won't make her feel embarrassed, we will help her through this the best we can. Good Luck to you. Please do tell her though. I found out through the grapevine, it would have meant so much more coming from my H.

NY

WK,

As a BS I would definitely feel better knowing that those around us who were told of the A also knew that my WH was going to work on the marriage and had *ended the A.That says A LOT about you and your WW.That you have suffered a tremendous blow but are going to come out the other side together and try and reconcile.

I would be much less embarrassed by that then what I am going through now and that is that my WH STILL is continuing his A despite his lies and false reconciliation attemtps.He fooled all of us twice.Double the pain.It's also infinitely less embarrassing that she was told by YOU about the A and that you ended it than by finding out through the grapevine.Can you be SELF-LESS and do this for your W?

O