</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whiteknight:
<strong>So now everyone is waiting for me to tell my W. OK, fine. You are all right. I just don't know how to do it. When and where does this happen?

Also, I want to ask her NOT to tell her family and best friends. I want her to come here instead. I ca handle working things out with her if no one else knows, but I can't live the rest of my life, seeing her family and friends and having them look at me as the cheating scum that I am. AM I WRONG TO MAKE THIS REQUEST? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I recommend you read the posts by FinallyLearning regarding telling your wife.

No one pretends this will be easy, but it'll be a lot easier on HER if you tell her rather than her hearing it from someone else. This helps answer your last question about who needs to know.

If you tell her, it's more likely that the exposure can be limited. You are not wrong for wanting her NOT to tell family and friends and this can promote recovery - for the reasons you state. You can even appeal to her to not do this, but her reactions are unpredictable and she may need to seek the comfort of someone else close to her.

Telling her is the most unselfish thing you can do and will go a long way toward your eventual peace. By all means, point her to this site.

WAT

See? I knew you had a big nose;)...And yes, I am a WS - recovering with BS and taking a day at a time. Think I mentioned that in my original post on this thread. Nevertheless...

Thing is that I was taking that stance. WS, during an A is doing so for selfish reasons but - given my A is over - I have no reason to think of myself as a selfish person.

Have actually been re-thinking that supposition though: WS is selfish during the affair. I cannot attest to other situations as I've only lived mine and only know what I thought or felt, but in looking at the definition of 'selfish' (Webster):

concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

And then remembering what I did at the time and why? I don't believe that I was that. Did I put myself a rung higher on my priority list? Probably so. But exclusively? or without regard? - NO. From the point of view of the BS, I could see why the WS is plain and simply selfish. From that perspective, the BS sees the relationship taken completely away from him/her and given to another. All of the things that were normally shared - whether physical or emotional - between the BS and WS are now being shared between the WS and OP. This is wherein the hurt for the BS lies. And insofar as I would expect (for the most part) that the WS does not consult the BS for permission to have an A, I could see that being perceived as a lack of teamwork, as is what a marriage should be. But selfish? Again, from the situation that I had, the caring and love I had for one person was merely diverted in a different direction. And I am in no way trying to belittle it, but what I had I wanted to give. Did I want in return? Sure, any person would. Who would want to give, give, and give and never get back? But to say that I was selfish, i.e. solely a taker. Take, take, take and when you can't give to me anymore I'll go elsewhere, no, that is not the way I was. I wanted to share my life and give to SOMEBODY! Did that make me selfish? No way. But did it make me a Judas? Absolutely. And was I lost and confused in terms of who should have received my utmost attention? Big Time!

Again, I cannot attest for every WS's reasons and/or actions, only what I can recall that I felt at the time. I'm sure some, many, whatever...WSs are indeed selfish as are probably the same amount of BSs, but just because something is not being given to you (the BS) does not mean that it has ceased to be given. i.e. regardless of the context of this forum, just because somebody does not give to you does not necessarily make that person selfish.

Also, I want to ask her NOT to tell her family and best friends. I want her to come here instead. I ca handle working things out with her if no one else knows, but I can't live the rest of my life, seeing her family and friends and having them look at me as the cheating scum that I am.
First off, your own guilt should make you feel worse than anyone else could.

Disclosure does not need to happen IF the affair is over and you are rebulding. The only purpose exposure would serve is to humiliate the ws. Revenge is NEVER good for any relationship.

Disclosure should happen if there is ANY continued contact.

AM I WRONG TO MAKE THIS REQUEST?
I don't think so.
Remember that YOU are the one who really has no room to make ANY requests.
This is something you need to talk about with your wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just because somebody does not give to you does not necessarily make that person selfish. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, MOC, that is way too profound for me to even reply to. It's still sinking in. I'll watch your back as best I can, but you're really going to get attacked for writing that. Wow, you're brave.

I still don't know if I would define myself as completely selfish. In some ways, yes, I was. But does that define my whole character. It certainly does not. If so, then no one shoudl ever want to be with me. For that matter, no one should ever want to be with any WS.

Certain moments in life define one's character; but situations change What one might do or think at one time in their life and what they might do at another are different things. I guess no one knows what they will do in any situation until they are tested. For some WS, once is enouh. For others --- once a cheater, always a cheater. I have no doubt that the OW is liekly cheating on her H again. Once she stops focusing all of her time and effort and hatred on me, she will find someone else to focus it all on. After all, I dumped her. She did NOT want to go back to H. She was trying to get a divorce. The only reason they teamed up against me can be ttributed to the famous saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

I still don't know if I would define myself as completely selfish. In some ways, yes, I was.
A ws spouse is simply a person who made decsion and screwed up. The decision to have an affair (it was not an accident or something that "just happened" wiht no action by the ws) is selfish.
A ws made a conscious, joint decision with the spouse to exclude EVERYONE from certain parts of their life when they got married. Then they unanimously made a decision to ignore it when the affair started/continued.
That is (my) meaning of a ws is extremely selfish. Not that they are always selfish about everything.

whiteknight,

i have not read this entire thread, it got so long so fast!!!! but i did see someone suggest reading my story regarding confessing.

after months of posting here, being challanged and learning, i finally confessed. i believe what helped the most was that i was ready to confess and i did it for the right reasons.

if you have any desire to "talk" about this at all, i'll be happy to share my story as much as you want. the best way might be to start a new topic with my name, or just FL, in the topic heading. work load being the way it is lately, i'm swamped and i might not see your response to this post because there are a million responses here!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

good luck

I agree with the other posters about telling your wife (before she finds out some other way AND you have no right to continue lying to her about why the OW is harrassing you).

I also agree with Chris:
"Remember that YOU are the one who really has no room to make ANY requests.
This is something you need to talk about with your wife."
regarding who your wife shoudl tell or not tell... how you want your wife to react.

I think it's (well I won't say it but you can guess) for the WS to pretend their marriage was so awful they had zero responsibility or ability to improve it (and that's what they used as an excuse to commit adultery)...
Yet when it comes to recovery they expect to be in total control of how the BS is supposed to handle it, wanting to tell the BS how they have to react and what the BS is willing or not willing to put up with for recovery, who can or can't be told, what hoops the BS has to jump through (or what they have to swallow)...

What happened to the WS is supposedly helpless to determine the quality of their marriage, things just happened, they can't be held responsible or considered able to affect change... attitude?
You sure don't sound helpless and agenda-less to me.

Your wife has every right to know the truth REGARDLESS of whether or not you think she will react the way you want! If you've done more damage to your wife and marriage than she can bear (or than you are willing to stand by her with for however long, AND however embarrassing and painful that is for you, until recovery is possible) then too bad.

This will be very painful for both you and your wife. Expecting you will get to dictate how it's going to be during recovery for the SELFISH purpose of making things easier for yourself is not exactly the attitude that is going to make your wife want to stand by you! You best assume that on your knees posture you suggested for us WW's when you confess to your wife. And then You'd best ASK for her forgiveness and ASK her exactly what you need to say and do in order to earn her trust and respect. You'd better let her tell anyone she wants to and start learning any trick she wants to teach you (sexual or otherwise) in order to start meeting her needs! Go to her with a list of do's and don't's about how she can react and who she can tell...because your top priority is making sure you look and feel good... and if she has any self-respect at all you'll have your current court worries plus divorce court to go to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A ws made a conscious, joint decision with the spouse to exclude EVERYONE from certain parts of their life when they got married. Then they unanimously made a decision to ignore it when the affair started/continued.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with that. For the record, I have had at leatst 2 ex-girlfriends cheat on me (teenage crap) and it freaked me out. Whatever happened to the special and sacred moments that belong to two people? How could they let OP into their lives the way they let me in? Wow, did it make me distrust girls for a long time. I always vowed I would never allow myself to be like "them" and then OOPS! There I was. Here I am.

Meanwhile, I never gave in to drinking or drug or stealing. I have never been tempted to do anything that I thought was wrong before. But the A was different. Obviously.

Acutally a better way to associate the word SELFISH with an A is to mention that it wasn't starting the A that was selfish (like I said, the WS mind is elsewhere) but continuing the A is selfish.

wk,

Appreciate the thought, but no need to watch my back. I've read more than I've posted and, for the most part, I don't think the mood of these boards relies upon people 'attacking' one another. Some posts may be pointed or controversial, but the general purpose of this board - as are many other of the well run forums and discussion groups on the internet - is to try to understand why we do the things that we do so that (in my case) the mistake I made always remains the mistake (singular) I made (past tense).

I have done some wildly stupid things in my life, but at least I can say that - while certainly dumber than dumb at the time - I've learned along the way and at least don't think I've made the same mistake twice.

There has been much hurt through my actions. Hurt for my BS that I don't know if I could ever understand. But if other posters like WAT, Mom, Ark, Chris, Ark - and yourself - can get an idea into my thick skull that I can take and walk away with, then I'm a richer man today. If nothing else than to make me remember why I did what I did, how horrible it was to do. To know that if the road becomes all to familiar again, that I will have the strength to ignore the bright blinking and inviting neon signs along it. But better yet, to maybe change the road I walk on by rebuilding the strength in my marriage with my teammate in such a way that those proverbial signs will never blind me again.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

I for one thank you for having the courage to write what you have WK. I am the BS and have felt I had to do my upmost to work on the M, and that meant rekindle those first in love feelings again.

Your post has reminded me to keep doing that!!! Yes, I'm hurt, yes, I'm tired, but I can wallow, or I can help make this the best D$%^ M ever. I choose to work hard at it...

whiteknight....

Two posts from you I want to comment on...

I had posted just recently a post about feelings...and the importance of these feelings...

and partly what had motivated me to post that was one of your replies to someone....(and i am not sure who)...some other WS about your feelings for the OP...and you made comments that BS didn't want to hear those things....that you wished there was a board for you and other WS to what sounded like just sign the accolades of the affair...

and i felt two ways about that post...
one was uncomfortable that you felt that way....that a WS in recovery should be able to discuss those feelings ....

and the other way I felt was that these boards are deeper than just the good feelings about the affair.....and if you just wanted other WS to say how good it feels...(people get that it feels good) then that's what TOW is....

So I just wanted to take a moment without bashing you to discuss those things...
let me also add that I thought you were in some type of disclosed recovery...and I admittedly find it painful and hard to be of assistance with a couple in recovery...when the WS holds tightly to those feelings....

that it becomes a deeper issue and problem..not early in recovery...but after time...it is alarming and sounds very hurtful to all parties...and becomes more of a mindset....and clinging to the known and all those other muddled things

So I wanted to debunk that BS don't want to know about the feelings felt by their spouse and OP...I don't think that is the case...it's just not the ONLY thing of relevance....and if a person is only able to process an affair and it's consequances only through the feel good feelings...that WS themself...should not seek reconcilliation with their spouse....
it would not be fair....

your original post came accross like someone who is telling of how wonderful heroin feels....

and then it became you stating you have decided to quit taking heroin...and now expect your spouse to make you feel exactly like heroin does....

it's not very realistic...
so it was not the information about your feelings that was hard to take...it was your cure for those feelings that was hard to swallow...

but your search for that cure...and your conclusion that that would work makes a lot more sense knowing NOW that you are not in recovery...and still suffering from your own digressions....you are still searching for a cure...yet even like the things you believe you found with the OP...all of those things...the bad and good are within you...and are of your own creation and nuturing....

And then your post about the ability to have an affair...and not think about your spouse...now that was a great post....

I think that the brain and mind do that exact thing....seperate that which makes us hurt or uncomfortable and focuses on that which makes us feel good....

Though BS have a difficult time believeing or accepting that it is possible that the WS did not think about the spouse during certain acts...I think that's exactly what our brains are capable of in survival mode...

that was an insightful post....
and though it is not your job to make BS feel bad or good..I hope that someone reads that and does feel better...
and can perhaps understand that their own WS could do what they did...without the direct thought of hurt...it still hurts we all know that...but that perhaps in a warped way there is some absence of malace....

ARK

[guote]Also, I want to ask her NOT to tell her family and best friends. I want her to come here instead. I ca handle working things out with her if no one else knows, but I can't live the rest of my life, seeing her family and friends and having them look at me as the cheating scum that I am. AM I WRONG TO MAKE THIS REQUEST? [/QUOTE]

No, I dont think you are necessarily wrong here. You have done something that most WS dont do first and that is to end the A...It doesn't matter WHY the A happened now...what matters now is that you do everything to restore your marriage!

I want to warn you...Your wife will be very angry at first. She may even kick you out. After she calms down, she will probably want to know WHY...be prepared to tell her everything. Do not hide anything from her. This is the time you need to start rebuilding trust in your relationship.

Do you have Surviving an Affair? I would suggest you go out and buy two copies NOW...one for her and one for yourself. Read them. When you tell her, give her, her copy. This book has really helped me and dad. Also, pick up a copy of His Needs/her needs and Lovebusters...all by Dr William Harley.

You will get thru this. Your family and friends dont need to know. BUT, if your wife wants to tell them, I would suggest you not fight her on it. It was YOUR choice to have the A, it will be HER choice whether or not to tell or not. The reason I told everyone, was because he was still in the A....and word DOES travel fast. My Pediatrician knows too....so does the clerk at the corner store. People pick up on it very quickly. Be prepared Whiteknight for what is about to come...You need to be strong for your wife! Hang in there

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">White Knight wrote:
OH, AND PLEASE REMEMBER, THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO IS TRY TO GET A RO against OP. Don't go down that road unless you are really afraid for your life. Otherwise it's a waste of time and $$$ for all involved. Let time and the NC letter do all the work. Don't drag the police and courts into your personal life. It's overrated. A piece of paper does not stop anyone from doing anything. If OP wants to kill you, a piece of paper in a filing cabinet at the court house will not stop it. If the OP goes to jail for violating the OR, then you have to watch your back for the rest of your life, because no one deserves even a day in jail.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi WK,

I have to address the above, because I HAD to file an Anti-harrassment order on OW. I was in stage 3 cancer treatments and she was calling me leaving horrible messages on our answering machine, despicable things like "you need to go back to the doctor cause your husband smells like fish" and "you're a Cancerous C_nt".

Through my then-H, I requested several times that OW stop the calls, which she refused to do "until he leaves you". She even verbalized that on my answering machine.

Now this was not only affecting my already failing health, it was simply vile and abusive harassment coming from a complete stranger to me. She was over-stepping her bounds and she knew it. She did not directly threaten my life, but she was profoundly impacting my health.

Every story here is different, as are the people involved in them. So advising a BS, as a sweeping blanket statement, to NOT use the legal system for what it was intended, when it is clearly a LEGAL issue just doesn't seem right to me.

On anther note, I'm really glad to see a WS post such a candid post, revealing so much about what a person goes through when experiencing this delimna.

Thank you for posting it.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So let me tell all BS what you are up against </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WhiteKnight--

As long as your wife remains "blindfolded" she is not even aware of the "enemy"-- and is therefore "up against" NOTHING (except perhaps questioning what's wrong? and/or intuitively knowing things just aren't right).

Most of us here have had our d-days. And, if our WSs have been honest enough with us, we KNOW EXACTLY what we are up against (and it may, or may not, be the same situation that you describe).

Peace, ~Marie

P.S. I guess I'm with Jo-- blanket statements drive me batty!

P.P.S *snaps* to Jo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: ohmy_marie ]</small>

Jo:

Hey, if I were you, I would have called the police too. In your situation, you were 100% correct.

I guess I'm just extra sensitive to the issue. I mean, I ended the A and she flipped out. She filed a police report about 6 hours after I broke up with her, accusing me of being a stalker. She and her H filed false police reports that I have seen. I have alibis for the times they claim I was there. My point --- don't go this route as a way to get revenge!

This situation is what's keeping me from moving on as quickly as I would like to. Why in the world OW and her H felt they needed to do this is beyond my comprehension.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whiteknight:
<strong>Why in the world OW and her H felt they needed to do this is beyond my comprehension. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you can bet OW lied to her H about you. She probably manufactured some horror story about you to cover her a$$.

Take it to the bank.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

What an interesting quote!

And, yet I wonder:

Do you believe in the impossible (as in rebuilding passion in your M) ???!!

Or, is the quote merely a reminder of the so-called seemingly impossible experiences you've encountered with your OP?

If you are willing to share, I would love to hear the *story* behind your signature quote <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

~Marie

Dear Knight,

I really feel for you. You have been very honest. Although the affair is not excusable your wife's inability to function in the marriage is inexcusable as well. No one should have to beg for sex, conversation, etc.

I think your request for non-revelation to outside parties is absolutely acceptable. I really wish no one knew about my husband's antics. After the first revelation as a BS I felt entitled to tell the world how wronged I was but it was really a disservice to both of us. I hate people knowing that he cheated on me.

I think it would be wise to think through the entire approach to revealing the A. But you should do it not only for your wife but for yourself. You should not have to live in a marriage so unhappy.

I must admit I am not a fan of radical honesty. After year upon year of revelations regarding my husband I am in the minority when I say don't tell me-I don't want to know. But that is just me and my husband was a serial cheater...I feel though that if we had tools in the very beginning to work on healing we would have been happier much sooner. You have tools, you have support, you can have a happier life.


ayslyne

Wow, I've got lots to respond to. First, I want to point out that I am glad a majority of you have realized why I originally started this post. I was not showing off that I had an A, I was not thinking about how wonderful it was, and I certainly was not trying to hurt anyone. I am a pretty smart guy. I have a very busy and full life. I know how wrong all of it was. I now know what a lunatic I was hooked up with. But even I was trapped in this horrible fog and went through a dramtic withdrawel, and still do. If it can heppen to me, it can happen to any other WS, and still does. MB is so difficult and you gotta know what's going on the BS head. And we may even be disgusted when the OP pops into our head --- but it still happens! Cripes a mighty --- it's a freakin' drag!

So if you are in recovery and you see your WS staring into space and you are assuming WS is thinking of OP --- it might not be on purpose, it might not be with a smile, it's just happening and it's normal and it'll end. Time. Time. Time. Take a big scoop of it and mix it into your marriage.

I feel better every day. I am still hurt and confused because of the backlash, but I feel better. Of course the Lexipro is doing wonders! Wow! I never thought I would want to be medicated my whole life, but this stuff's great!