</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The point I am trying to make is I think she is who she is... because she has gone back to that person outside of your presence. It sounds as though she changed for you, not for her. JMHO.....and something for you to think about. Did she ever go to IC?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HINY,
I think you're right. I think after seeing "both" sides of everything, she may want to be what she tried to be. (If that makes sense.) But for now, she is who she is. And that change isn't going to be an overnight process.

The thing that tears at me, is deciding if "for better or worse" is still in play here. I would hate to give up on someone, but as stated the other day, you can't help someone who doesn't want help.

And did she ever go to IC? She is a first class conflict avoider. IC? I suggested it. She said it would only be for me, not for her. She never went.

Another day.........

<small>[ June 08, 2004, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any chance you could go kick some Toronto homewrecking bu** for me??

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear ya <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ..just let me tell you where I am from most of us are God fearing, moral, credible, family orientated folks who are noted for our hospitality and to help others in need so please don't group us into one pot..I understand your pain hon and know that I for one would love to help you out on this butt kicking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have already done my share of butt kicking with OW and she turned out to be a liar but what did I expect...called me apologizing for the A...sorry for the pain she put me, my son through and assured me A was over...but guess what NOT.. both right back at it. so sometimes confrontation is senseless and I have stated to WS that I would never lower myself to their level again..I am above lying and causing malicious pain to others..I am just trying to move on and know that in the end "What goes around comes around all in God's good time"

Stay Dark...do not send anything...it will not get through to him anyway and he will just come up with some excuse to justify his guilt which just cause you more pain...DARK DARK DARK...

Ethan,

My H is a conflict avoider also. So he isn't really into IC either, but it is one of my boundaries at this point and he knows it. I am hoping that once he goes, he will actually enjoy it and find himself again. If not, then it wasn't meant to be.

As far as your WW is concerned, I would never tell you to can your vows, ever. You have to think about the fact that you might have to live with who she really is.....instead of who she was. Does that make sense? I am different now too. In my case for the better.

In her case for the worse, so if she stays this drinking, unfaithful, pot smoking teenager type person can you live with it? Or would you rather find someone that is able to be their true self with you? If you don't mind your WW the way she is then you should stick it out, cause she might not change or she might not want to change. I wanted to change back to me once he was out of here. I love myself again and I won't go back to the person I didn't like, not even for him again. Your WW might not either, even if the person she really is isn't so great or isn't willing to get help.

HINY

Just wanted you all to know I was still keeping up with your situations, and praying for you all.

Octobergirl, I can totally relate to where you are. Our timeline is pretty similiar, and the long distance crazy @ss fantasy is similiar, and I too am over it. Ready to move on. He doesn't want to come back. He is happy where he is. And I want to be set free so I can pursue my own dreams, without this 200lb lead weight pulling me into the mirk and depths of this terrible nightmare that just won't end.

I notice that Plan B has so separated me from WH, that now, I no longer really feel those feelings of love and longing anymore. I am truly numb...I think about the Pink Floyd song, comfortably numb. Anyways, no pain, no anger, just indifference. I love my children more than life itself, they are the best thinsg that ever happened to me, but I must admit, that sometimes I regret that I had children with this man, because the break would SEEM to be less complicated, and best of all, I would NEVER have to see him again. But now, I am still destined to a lifetime of having him in my life, for the sake of my kids. It is like seeing an ex-boyfriend for the rest of your life. You may not love him anymore, it may not hurt, but a part of you doesn't want to even KNOW him anymore, and I am sometimes depressed that this will never be a reality for me.

Anyhoo...hoping for the best for everyone.

Hey Sere,

I know you have had it rough.I guess my feelings for my WH went away pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things.It became rapidly clear to me that I knew I wasn't going to be the Jackie O type and look the other way while my H cheats on me.I will always love my WH but it's not the same anymore.He ruined that.That's not to say either that it couldn't be great again one day but I don't see that happening.My WH refuses to change or lift a finger to save anything but his own [censored].

The thought of never meeting my WH came through my mind too but I will never regret having my two precious angels here on earth! He at least did one thing right in his life.I also may be tied to him as a co-parent but that is it.We will be severed in every sense of the word beside that fact.I will not ever want to see him again if we D.I even told my girls that if they ever want to be married themselves one day to have the wedding and/or reception at my home.I have 7 acres of beautiful landscape and that way,I can refuse to let homewrecker on my property. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Honestly,don't worry about the ties that bind.YOU have control over how much your WH is in your life.There will be those events in our lives that we have to be there to support our children but it isn't that many and our children,as they grow into adulthood,can be the decision makers of how much they will let OP's into their lives too.Your HW lives far away so that is a blessing at least for you.Hopefully she will never set foot on American soil again.I wish I could say the same for mine, I already know she slithers across the border for MY husband.

Hang in there,you are doing swell.

O

Here is todays quote:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get, it's what you are expected to give -- which is everything." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Tinman,

That was lovely!

HINY

How's everyone today..all quiet here on the western front <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> having a few girlfriends over to partake of the Captain. (Morgan's Spiced Rum) that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ..smoke a few cigars...chat etc poolside.....weather is glorious here today and just finish filling planter boxes with flowers...life is good..how are things with you Miss HINY..still hanging in there?..keep your chin up girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That sounds like a great day I'm jealous NO.

NO

I am also jealous. Sounds like a wonderful day to me. I could even go for a cigar today. I actually had a wonderful morning with H today. He was himself today which is always nice to see. He actually asked me......if it was going to be a problem if he bought a motorcycle. He has never asked my opinion before, just done what he wants. I thought this was a major change for him. He also is going to make the IC appt himself which is a big plus too. They said I can't make it for him because part of IC is accepting that you need it. When I explained this to him he was more than happy to do it himself. Very surprising to me. He talks very postively about the future and us when he speaks. He even blew me a kiss when he left, which was very strange, something he hasn't done in years. I am very positive today. Don't ask me tomorrow cause I will feel like a Bobbitt by then probably. You know how the days change the hormones......LOL. I am just hoping for the best and expecting the worse. I guess that is where I should be at this point. No withdrawals today that I noticed made for a nice day for us. I am thinking of you all, and praying for your healing and self recoveries.

HINY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Today's quote:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up."
-James Baldwin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Nice tinny!

How is it with you today? Keep us posted here now. Christy let this thread fall to page 2 again........LOL! I see you bumped it up for us. Your quotes are very sincere and nice. I hope everything is fine for you and all my other friends here. Prayers to you all.

HINY

I was coming home from a movie. Stopped at the traffic light and both their cars passed&#8230;OW and WH&#8217;s&#8230;My BS fog came over me and I became totally insane. The moment the light turn green&#8230;I floored the pedals and drove like a formula 1 driver. I am so lucky I did not have any accident and I am actually surprised that I came out of it alive.

I caught up with them. WH was following OW home and both of them were driving pretty fast then. I slam the horn and pass WH who immediately knew he had to stop me. He tried but I managed to cut him each time. He was still trying to save the innocent OW from his insane wife!! That enrages me! Nothing could have stopped me.

I knew where she lives but for awhile I lost her in the maze of her housing area. WH managed to corner me. I got out told him to get lost and get out of my way. He was asking what the hell was I doing. Again I scream at him to get out of my way&#8230;why does he hurt me this way&#8230;blah blah blah&#8230;I am just wondering what the owners of the houses around there thought of us&#8230;at one point &#8230;.i actually back my car up and tried to push his car away. I heard a loud groan from car&#8230;but at that insane point I did not care. I just wanted to confront OW and at her house in front of her parents.

Again I got around WH car and drove away&#8230;he tailed me&#8230;I got back to her house. This time I stopped right in front of her house. I got out&#8230;WH caught and held on to me. I was kicking and tried to get away but he had a good grip on me. I got back into the car and drove one around&#8230;ONLY then the fog lifted. I stopped at a junction and thought about MB. I was thinking about all of you and what you are going to say to me.

WH came over and started talking. In my mind I told myself drive away drive away&#8230;but I could not&#8230;I wanted to hear his fog talk again.

So he talk&#8230;I talk&#8230;I hug him he hug me back&#8230;told me HE COULD NOT LET HER GO as firmly as ever and looks really ready to divorce me&#8230;

We drove home to continue to talk&#8230;then got intimate&#8230;don&#8217;t blame me. I still love him. I miss him.

If some of you look at your WH, feel numb and repulse&#8230;it did not happen to me&#8230;I still love him, care for him and am attracted to him. All your MB advice and words&#8230;goes through my mind the whole time. I knew I need to stop it but I just could not.

WH spoke and told me a lot that is good and bad. At the beginning after the mad car chase with me crying and screaming like a mad lady&#8230;he sound really determine to end it with me.

After that&#8230;later&#8230;when I managed to calm myself down and listen to him&#8230;this is what I got. WH thought of me, miss me and about the whole mess every single day! WH said everyday he wakes up with this heavy feeling in his heart. WH told me he did not want me thinking that he was happy throughout this whole 8 months because he was not. WH also said that his choice now is actually between OW and daughter&#8230;boy did I hurt to hear him say that&#8230;WH said he feels so bad about hurting DD because DD is innocent and started crying&#8230;I hug him and told him its okay.

WH told me that OW mom spoke to WH and told him to stay away from their daughter. OW parents, sister and sister&#8217;s boyfriend lectured OW. I asked WH why did he send me that message telling me of his meeting with OW parents. WH said he just wanted me to know. Then WH told me that OW asked him almost everyday about his decision. WH again said that he will make a decision soon. He said he made the bed and he will sleep on it.

Before he left, he looked as if an extra burden has been added on to his shoulder. He did not look happy and looks pretty confuse. He looked so sad to me. I played the cheerful part, gave him a hug and send him off at the door.

Maybe when all of this sinks in&#8230;then only I might cry again. But after that I will dust myself off and climb back into that wagon. Yes, I will climb back up there because no matter what happen tonight&#8230;I feel safe in plan B.

WH said he would end it soon&#8230;I am trying hard not to cry over this. At the beginning it sounded very real that WH is going to divorce me but when he left the house it sure did look like it&#8230;so I am pretty lost here.

I have a cut and bruise on my hands due to the struggling with WH and the back of my car has a dent&#8230;WHAT THE HELL was I doing!!!??? I could not believe how insane I was then.

I feel like a fool now. I feel like I let myself down. I wanted to be strong but I fell and could not stop myself. I feel like I lost my credibility and my dignity. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Zizzy...don't be too hard on yourself. We all tend to go a little psycho. There have been times in our lives when we all do something and look back and think what the hell was I thinking??? I can have some down low, PYSCHO tendencies, so, I can totally relate to your little scene....I would have not probably left it, though...I don't know. Hang in there.

Thanks Serendipity...i have not sleep now coming 24 hours...i think i should i try to sleep. Took medical leave today. I do not think i am up to work today.

Last but not least i sent a text message to OW saying everything that i have done and doing is to save my marriage. i love my husband very very much. i will not divorce WH bcos i love him. Then i sent another text message to WH telling him that i sent an l love you message to OW. The end.

That is it...end of my breaking. NO MORE breaking.

I need to sleep. I will check on you guys later and give more advice to other people about Plan B.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

zizzy -

Gee girl, I thought I was bad. But you get the award for falling off the Plan B wagon this month.

However I do think it is good that you talked to him, and he does still want to have SF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> with you. Also I think he probably does feel bad. And the fact that the OW's parents are against him is great.

So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and I'll pull you back up on the wagon.

By the way, what are you doing in Malaysia?

Oh zizzy hon.. as you know I've been there as have HINY...know how bad it hurts to see the one you love with someone else...my heart aches for you right now...it will take a few days to get over this episode so hang on tight girl...the memories of seeing the two together are so painful...isn't funny how these OW run for the hills when they are confronted...they know they are doing wrong and that is why they run...guilt...take some deep breathes and try and relax...and by all means stay dark from here on in...that is the only way you will regain your sanity and strength..I know for me my episode of confrontation opened my eyes to the choices WS is making and have decided I want a moral man in my life ..not one who is still sneaking around with a coward...there is no other way to describe these OW...cowards and yes my WS is one too...hang tough girl and I will be praying for you...

<small>[ June 10, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

Zizzy,

I asked my IC about this situation I got myself in, because now when I look back it wasn't even me that knocked on her door. I can see myself from up above. Almost like I was watching it on TV. It wasn't me at all. I would never, ever do something like that. I am as nice as a mouse most days, well I was anyway before this. She said it is called disassociation. And that is exactly what it was. My defenses went up and I just had rage that I couldn't fight. So I did what I thought I had to do. It wasn't right, but it felt right at the time. Don't freak out, you will be okay. It sounds like everything is okay for now. Just go dark now. And remember you are not a bad person for this, just in love. Try to do better now. That is what I have done. NO LBing, or anything. Just stay cool now.

HINY

Hi ziz,

Wow,what can I say? I am just glad you didn't end up in a major car crash.I hope you regain your composure and get back on the wagon with us.Saved you a seat,ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It just burns my buttons that these WS's don't see the agony we go through,driving us to the brink of insanity because of the pain of adultery.GRRRR.

Take care of yourself hon.

{{{HUGS}}}

O