I have a serious question for you....my mom said not to tell anyone about yesterday because it was a personal and private moment between us,,,,but there is this part of me that wants OW to know. I shouldn't tell her right? I thought not.

I am very excited my 3 1/2 year old S, told me he had to go potty last night and he went. He also took his diaper off just now and went on his own. This is very exciting as we have been working on this for nearly a year and a half now. WHooohoooo!


HINY

That is EXCELLENT news about DS!!! My S was 3 1/2 before he went on his own too. He's a genius now, just had to do it in his own time.

Yeah, I would keep the R talk to a VERY minimum. I would lavish affection on him, and him leaving with more SF wouldn't be a bad thing, if you can handle it. I would do more than just hand the Plan B letter to him though...let him know how much it hurts to have him come back and leave, it's like he's leaving the first time all over again. And it looks like it hurts him too. Tell him none or limited contact with you until he decides on the M. And you won't wait forever... Everytime he leaves you have to start making mplans to live your life without him...that seems to be the wakeup call that have pulled some WS out of it. My H was jolted when I began crying because I had given up...

As far as telling OW. Don't know. I wouldn't go out of your way, but I wouldn't try to hide the fact. I had the opportunity to relay a message to OW when I found H and her chatting on the computer on IM. I simply wrote her that he was lying to both of us. She quickly jumped off, and never replied. Don't know what effect it had, but I felt a little better. Do you see her, or have opportunities where info would get to her? Maybe tell a mutual friend, but I wouldn't go out of your way. WH may see that as vindictive and try to help the OW...sick huh?

I might try all of that this weekend. I think that is very good advice. I thought about more SF because that is his big one EN and I never knew it before like I do now. Uggg it's just the thought you know? My mom said it was a mistake and don't let it happen again. It just makes him a cake eater. I said yeah I know. But I am sure he doesn't have SF with OW like he does with me, I could tell he missed being home if you know what I mean. And we laid in bed for an hour entangled together arms and legs and he fell asleep for a few minutes. Anyhow, I could probably handle it one more time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I will see what happens this weekend. I think OW is LBing really bad and that is half the problem. I don't think I will say anything to her or anyone that knows her because I want him to be able to trust me and if he finds out I told he won't. Not only that I want him to tell her. I am going to tell him that this weekend I think. That he cheated on her now and she has a right to know, as I did. She is so gross she won't care though, that is half the problem. She is a very desperate, needy thing. Time will tell all. I am very excited about DS. I tried to call WH to tell him but no answer. Imagine that huh? I might leave message on his cell and tell him, he is even wearing real underwear today by his choice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HINY

I just got this crazy thought in my head to leave him a message saying I will meet you at OW house in the morning in her parking lot and we will have this out the three of us. She works nights and gets home around 8:00 am. This might scare the bejeebers out of him. LOL. I don't know if it would be a good idea or not though.

HINY

<small>[ April 29, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

POTTY POTTY !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I just posted somewhere about potty training and how its like fog/withdrawal . LOL

I thought about this appraoch for the weekend thing , I am thinking ,, cool man ..

Say nothing act normal ,, I think he is kind of expecting you to be real excited to see him ,,,KINDA like I through her a bone (no pun LOL)SORRY if I ofend I just speak blunt (NY THING)

YOu see if your not EXCITED EXCITED but normal this may prompt him to talk about the situation .

Another words he may open the door first to the convo like I thought the other day meant something special.

Where it could give good oppertunity for you not to seem pushy , IT WAS VERY SPECIAL , THATS WHAT MAKES IT SAD ,,, i WANT a M and commitment ,and knowing that we can make love like that still makes me know that we can have all those things , the only thing stopping us IS YOU .

Get where I am going here . NO LB . NO DEMAND . just the sensitive side to the hole thing . NO CRYING !

JUST very REAL ,, the reality needs to sink into him .

DO NOT WARNING allow the comfor of you and your home start to come back with out that HO gone from the picture .

YOU can ask STILL, she stayed with my thread for the 17 months my H ate cake and I mean he really packed on the POUNDS !!!LOL

It will set ya back in all your work , and future recovery ..

JMVHO and experiance.

3

The potty thing was a false alarm also as that was the only time today he has gone on it. I guess better than none. He is thick like his father.

I was thinking on the way home from Walmart today, that I am going to leave that message. I am going to call him and tell him that I know he loves me and he has no intentions of ever really leaving for good because he never took all of his stuff. And because we didn't have sex yesterday, we made love like we just met. I am going to meet him in her parking lot tomorrow morning at 8:00 am and we are going to get to the bottom of this pile of **** I am in. I am tired. I have been doing this since July of 03. I have had enough. I am scared for my kids and I am scared for my home, and my health. I can't take it anymore. We are going to do this face to face, we are going to get rid of her and get him some help for his depression first off. Then we will work on our marriage after that. We can't work on our M until the depression is fixed. He needs serious counseling. I always took control of everything, dentists and all of that. I think he is looking for me to do it in this circumstance also in a round about way. I think this is best for all of us to just get to the bottom of it all. I will let you know what happens.

HINY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well I did it. I called his cell and I probably ruined it all but I am at the end after yesterday. I am mad, and hurt, and sick. And I am done. I told him I will meet him tomorrow morning in her parking lot and I will get to see how he is around her. I told him that we didn't have sex yesterday that we made love and he knows it and so do I. That we stand to lose everything because of her. This is exactly what I plan on doing too. If he doesn't want me to he will have to come here after work and tell me why I shouldn't I guess. I will probably get arrested but my marriage is worth it for now. I will fight until the end I guess. I will know tom. one way or the other if it is the end. I am not waiting for MY husband to get done having an affair. Not now not ever!


HINY

Are you from brooklyn, bronx ,queens, Just a joke LOL

I hear you loud and clear , I am not taklin you out of it , neither am I giving you encourgement .

I have been where you are , I understand it perfectly as do others .

And I think in some cases this may work , now I am not saying that it will work instantly and also PLEASE exspect the worst.

Trust me these WS get all messed up when infront of OP . This can be very hurt full .

MY H told me He loved OW, wanted to marrie her, and needed NEEDED for for to be apart of the OW life .(ON THE PHONE WITH HER LISTENING )

The nexted day of corse cryed like a BITC# ! b

So understand this is risky and if its your stand what is the plan to follow .

WORST case : he tells you go F off and denies you and he made love (all for face of OW )

BEST case : well we know he says he loves you tells HO to f off and you live happyly ever after .

You have a plan for that one I know ,, IC, and work hard work .

BUT look at worst case really look !

Now being honest thats the thing I needed to make me move on no bones about it .

BUT if he does that and 3wks from now comes back , what then will you get pasted the things he said, to protect OW and his own A$$ .

It hurts like hell having the person you love denie you infront of a piece of $HIT .

Ok so now that I confused the crap out of you .

I am with ya ,really in all honesty going away from princepals (MB)
I would do the same .

DO NOT DO NOT ,,, use your hands in anyway . and if possiable bring a tape recorder.

If OW should become violant get the cops and make sure you press charges but do not defend yourself .

As much as you would like to take her A$$ out , you do not want a night in jail . OK .

I will be on awhile , I am home alone H is out doing a favor for family member.

One more thing I am checking in tom. so post when you get back ...

BE WELL , BE SAFE, BE STRONG !

3

Hey there! I am prepared for worst care scenario actually. I am ready to walk away from this marriage once and for all. I believe in a lot of MB principles and I love the people. Unfortunately, I am not one to sit around while my H has an affair and take him back when he is done. I don't think that he will let it get this far. He will probably come here after work and try to talk me down a little. He works 3-11. HO is a coworker but on 3rd shift. So she will be at work when WH gets out of work. I imagine he will either come here first or not be there in the morning when she gets home. He is some what of a coward in this whole thing. Not being honest with either of us. I am from Central NY, but I am a strong one and I am a fighter. A true blue Yankee fan from my toes to my hair. I will fight for my children until the bitter end.

I would give my eyesight for them, there is no way in he!! I am letting my DS dad walk away for a HO and ruin his life without at least fighting. I will not touch her. My best friend here is a sheriff in her county. I don't worry much, although she does not support me she would bail me out. Explain the situation and so on. I will post and let you know what happens.

HINY

3

He called my cell phone after work and said he received my message and he would not be there tonight or in the morning and neither would she. OW has classes and errands to run in the morning so not to bother showing up there. That he will call me tomorrow afternoon. Hmmm. I don't know sounds interesting to me. I shall see what he has to say tomorrow I guess.

HINY

Well of corse they aren't going to be there , do realy think this man wants that action ? I don't think so .

Listen you need to be the one in charge her , get the PLAN set in YOUR head. DO not let him call the shots .

He comes here him out , the make your PLAN .

PLAN A or PLAN B ?
DO you have the letter ready for PB?

That call may have scared the pants out of him, so he wants to come there to calm you down smooth you over .

This is when the WS sometimes gets desprate , knowing that they should come home , then the confusion of OW kicks in they start spinning .

The cake eating , fence sitting with all the right "TALK" but really don't walk the walk .

I hope others come along and give ya some input .

I don't have that savy way of expressing the MB princepals.

He just made love to you the other day , he knows the conection there , and even thought he may be close to making the desion , he will get scared and attempt to do things his way .

WELL just my 2 cents .

3

Thanks. Actually I am glad they weren't there. I had a few hours to think about it, I was really going to go but now he knows I am serious about stuff. He said he will call me this afternoon, after the chimney people come. I still think that a meeting between me, him and her would be best. He is a conflict avoider and a sneaky SOB. It is time that he put his cards on the table. He is sick with depression. He needs help and I am the only one that can help him.

As his wife I feel that it is my duty and right to want my husband to be healthy again. He is not at this point. He will not be able to make any decisions until he is.

I already gave him the PBL, it didn't last more than 7 weeks though. He had a hard time not seeing me just like I thought he would. It is time for me to be firm on this matter. It is the only way with him.

HINY

You know the potty thing ????

Well you can show your 3yr old the potty , make it look all nice, tell him that it is safe to go on ,You can even hold his hand , pull his pants down and guide him .... BUT>>>>>>>>>>>

YOU CAN NOT MAKE HIM DO IT !

That is your WS ,, you can make it safe, you can be there for him , show him the way .

BE HE and HE alone has to know he needs help and to get it .

The FIX it thing does not work .

YES you know whats best , you can see that and you only want the best for him .
(just like your son , you don't want rashs for him , or him to have embarsing oder LOL )

He will be sneaky ,he will avoid conflict,He will go to get length to not allow this to come down to a confrontation .

You need to really listen to what he says to you today ,,, you need to read between the FOG and see what action , what PLAN he intends to state before you .

HE will use the fact that you 2 just made love the other day to HIS advantage .

Be careful of the LB , but yes you must be firm .
LISTEN to what he says , and how he says it .

If you think your being played (sweet talked) for him to "need more time " then you are .

GO with your GUT not your emotions .

3

You are right. Thanks.

I have a feelings that he is going to tell me he is going to be with her anyway.

I am still going to try to get the three of us together. Even if he does end up hating me in the end and never wants to see me again. I will know that I fought from July 03 until now. When my boy is older I can say I honestly tried as hard as I could. WH can say nothing other than I was a coward and ran the other way.

If he was going to come back he would have come here after work instead of going to his brothers. OW lives 15 minutes from here and he goes to her house every other night. No reason why he couldn't have come here and talked to me last night instead of the message thing. I already know what his plan is.

I would never tell OW about us having SF the other day. That is something he should do, and I will tell him so. But she is being lied to and strung along as I am, and she had a right to know that. She doesn't even know he still wants to come home occassionally. He tells her nothing. She just thinks that she has it all. Besides this two person in one body thing is really freaking me out big time.

I want to see the other him........sounds strange to me. Maybe he has multiple personalities or something???? If you saw OW you would totally die. If OW saw me she would die. I know what she looks like, she doesn't know what I look like. She hasn't seen me in a year, I have lost 50 lbs, grew out my hair and everything. She weighs about 100 lbs more than me. I think he needs to see us side by side for once in his life.

HINY

HINY,

Hi! You asked me to come over and read your thread. OK I have. Now...I can't recall if you read LB's post about what happened when we had contact. I have reprinted it on other threads, but will repeat it here for your benefit:

I wanted to paste here what my FWH (Lost Bird, #33342) posted on another thread. It clearly points out the importance of no contact during Plan B. Take from our experience and learn. If I had remained in no contact longer, we might have started down the road to recovery much earlier.

This is a direct quote from his thread:

"The contact we had during separation probably did more harm in my progress to return than anything else. Let me attempt to explain.

During those periods of silence, I had time to reflect on my M and what was in jeopardy. Interstingly, I best remembered the good stuff, those wonderful times and memories we shared. Then along would come some form of contact. Often it resulted in hurt feelings, some anger and defensive posturing on my part. For me it resulted in negative thoughts and sadly, over shadowed and dashed any progress I had made. Yes, call it being stubborn. Or perhaps, I knew what I was doing was wrong, why do I need to be reminded. So back in the shell I climbed. Further complicating things is that I am a first class conflict avoider.

What brought me back? There wasn't one single thing but perhaps a series of things. I had felt pressured in returning and naturally, that didn't do any good. Some people tried to play the morality card, but that doesn't work -- why would it on someone involved in an A? I know they were appealing to my better nature, but the stubborn side won.

I came back when I wanted to and felt I was best prepared to work on recovery. There wasn't a lightning bolt or anything like that, just a progression of thoughts and feelings. It will take time -- some take longer than others which is certainly evident here on this board. I guess there may be an "average" time, but since all people are unique, so are the circumstances.

Protect yourself and your feelings. My best advice is stay silent. If you need to make contact in the event of an emergency or some extraordinary circumstance, do so through an intermediary -- something recommended my MB. It sure its impact on me when that first happened."

I also wanted you to see something I wrote on another marriage forum (Penny Tupy's Save Your Marriage Central bulletin board). Here is the link:
The BP Is Fog-Bound Too!

I am the author - I am Sharon SYMC over on that discussion board.

Now, as you cruise around that board, look at the thread about the Honesty Assignment and the thread about Feeling Words. I say that because you had asked earlier how you can communicate with your H about things that bother you. The answer is in the Honesty Assignment. But later - not now while in Plan B.

All this is important to those in Plan B.

But HINY, the overriding issue with your situation is the fact that you are continuing contact with your H while he is still in the affair. Totally counter-productive, as you can see from LB's post and my thread on the other board.

Your contact with your H is not accomplishing anything other than giving each of you a chance to express anger and your H a chance to retreat back into the safety of the fog and possibly the comfort of the OW.

Best possible situation for the two of you would be to have NO contact at all - even when it comes to home repairs or visitations for children. Get someone to speak on your behalf. Get an intermediary (this is also something you can get over at SYMC if you are interested).

Best of luck and let me know if I can help any more. Remember, I am no professional, just a humble poster with opinions about what might work and what might not, and of course, I also have the benefit of Lost Bird telling me what happened during our Plan B.

Hugs to you, LINY!

ISGirl

This is what I am planning to do. Plan B all over again. Thanks for the threads and the help getting me on track again.

HINY

You betcha! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And, when you feel the urge to talk to him, post on one of the PB threads and let everyone talk you out of it.


(edited to change the spelling of "betcha" - originally said "betch" and I didn't want it confused with something else - LOL)

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

3

As I figured he said he would call this afternoon and talk and tell me what the chimney man said, of course he didn't. I knew he wouldn't anyway. That is really okay though. I think this is good, we need to go back to no contact. It is not worth the pain anymore.

HINY