Hello!

First, let me say... I've read every word written to me. I'm overwhelmed that so many strangers would take time out of their lives to respond. I feel God speaking to me through all your words. Thank you again.

Suzet's description of "the Fog" was uncannily, minutely descriptive of the feelings I have had for this coworker. And the words in all your replies have convinced me that my intended path was absolute nonsense and there is no way I could justify hurting my beautiful wife this way (continuing to hurt her, that is).

Since my last post, I did buy His Needs/Her Needs on audio (hour-and-a-half on the road each day). I've made it through about 40 minutes of it.

Last night, I behaved in a reserved, professional fashion toward coworker. I wasn't rude, but I clearly wasn't trying to impress her with my words (like I usually am). There seemed to be a payoff, because she didn't show up later at my class to chat... which would not be uncommon otherwise. I also wasn't obsessing about this person as I usually do. (I usually find myself wondering constantly if she will come back to the class later.) Instead, I was able to focus on my job. I was a better instructor for it as well.

As has been suggested by y'all, I'm definitely *never* going to recognize in words to this person that there was ever anything going on in the way of an EA. In my youthful days of marriage, it was deeply instilled in me to never say a negative thing about my wife to another woman. I've abided by that here... and I've never actually shared any of my internal struggles or secret longings with this coworker. (She has been vulnerable with me--which I shouldn't have participated--but I haven't with her.) I guess my point is that this coworker has no platform to ask "why I changed."

More importantly, I started giving my wife more information about the situation at my job. I haven't told her everything yet. But I did clarify things that I was purposely vague about in the past. I should be clear that our discussions about this in the past were in the context of me not being sure if I wanted to be married anymore. (These conversations were about me being selfish.) Specifically, in "discussion one" (two weeks ago) I said I was tempted by the single lifestyle/mentality of coworkers. In "discussion two" (a week later) I suggested there were some girls at work who tempted me generally, but I wouldn't say who or even admit that there was a single person who I was referring to.

This morning (a week later) I clarified that this was not a problem with any female students (I work at a post-secondary technical school and W gets concerned). I told her that there is a coworker who is very flirtatious with me. W had to leave for work so the conversation was abbreviated. I haven't told her all the specifics yet. I will try to tell her more this weekend. She knows I feel tempted, so if she puts it all together she will "get it." Regardless, I am going to try to be more direct this weekend.

Right now, W and I are trying to work out the details so that she comes to have dinner with me on my break tonight. Hopefully it works out. I'm going to continue to be polite but distinctly professional with this coworker.

Another issue that I have no doubt has contributed to this is that I lost my wedding ring. (I really did lose it. My wife also lost hers.) I need to get a new one ASAP. I've probably been giving the wrong message to everyone by not wearing one.

Thanks again everyone and I will continue to update situation on this thread. You have no idea how much I value everything you've written.

God bless,

jg

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, let me say... I've read every word written to me. I'm overwhelmed that so many strangers would take time out of their lives to respond.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you've lived through the complete and total hell of an A, and built your self esteem up from less than nothing, and managed to come through intact and stronger for it... well, with me there is a strong gratitude to those on this forum who helped me, and a desire to pass that support and help on to others. This forum LITERALLY has been a life saver to some people.

By the way, your feedback to our posts and answers to the questions we ask makes it very rewarding to post to you. We quickly give up when posting to a "void" - a person who doesn't respond.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also wasn't obsessing about this person as I usually do. (I usually find myself wondering constantly if she will come back to the class later.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very good. You should expect to waffle, however. You may not - it sounds as if you've nipped things VERY early on and are eager to learn from this experience. However it is VERY NORMAL to waffle. If you have good days and bad days (easy times and hard times putting this OW into perspective) then don't freak out and allow yourself to entertain notions that "it's a sign" ad perhaps you're :fated to be with her." Just acknowledge that what you are going through is normal and let it serve to strengthen your resolve and underline that there truly is some work to be done in shoring up your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't told her all the specifics yet. I will try to tell her more this weekend. She knows I feel tempted, so if she puts it all together she will "get it." Regardless, I am going to try to be more direct this weekend.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't "try" to be more direct. TELL HER EVERYTHING. This is the only way for her to "get it". It is natural to want to avoid the more embarrassing stuff. Of course you don't want to hurt her, and you don't want her to know what a fool you're capable of being. But if you "try" to be more direct you're setting her up for failure. It's like expecting a student to "get it" when you haven't given them all the critical information.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now, W and I are trying to work out the details so that she comes to have dinner with me on my break tonight.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another issue that I have no doubt has contributed to this is that I lost my wedding ring. (I really did lose it. My wife also lost hers.) I need to get a new one ASAP.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi John,

I commend you for coming here before the OW's (Other Woman's) temptation got too much of a hold over you.

I agree with the other posters who've been telling you not to merely "try" to tell your wife everything. Tell her, everything, ASAP!

She may be very angry and hurt. That's understandable. Don't tell yourself, "See I knew I shouldn't have told her" if she has a negative reaction initially. But the sooner you tell her the less there will be of that and the sooner you TWO can start the work to recovery. You will have to make some changes in order to protect yourself from such temptation in the future and to help your wife feel safe and trusting again. Telling your wife everything ASAP will make recovery more possible and less painful for both of you. Also, telling your wife everything will help protect you from the temptation and will help you stop the foggy thinking sooner.

I also agree with the advice to never say anything to the OW that in any way acknowledges the temptation or attraction you felt. Just cool it. It sounds like she has already gotten the message - good. Don't feel sorry for her, like you led her on and owe her an apology or explanation, like she was innocent... Just stay away from her as much as is possible. Whatever you do, don't ever say anything to your wife indicating that the OW is somehow innocent or that you feel you owe the OW an apology or that you care about the OW's feelings! THAT will most definitely hurt your wife and will make marital recovery more difficult!

It's also a great idea to have your wife come to meet you for dinner at work. Do you have your own office area at that job where you can display a photo of your lovely wife? If you ever attend any of those group functions that the OW invited you to, take your wife and treat your wife the way you did when you were newlyweds, as if you and your wife are on a romantic date even though you're in a crowd. If you're ever invited again by the OW tell her you and your wife have plans and can't make it to the function... or say my wife and I will try to attend and then show up with your wife as described above.

Also, since you were starting to use the decision to buy the house and furniture as justification, you definitely should read about the POJA (the Policy of Joint Agreement). Discuss it with your wife and how you felt as if those decisions were more her idea and how you felt some resentment which you almost used to commit adultery. Basically, the POJA is about how to negotiate/wait until there is ENTHUSIASTIC agreement before making any decisions. The book SAA (Surviving An Affair) has an example very similar to yours - the husband is working longer hours to pay for a better lifestyle that the wife wanted. But in the example in the book the wife was the WS (Wayward Spouse) justifying the affair to herself because she then felt neglected and was vunerable to the attention of an OM (Other Man). In the example in the book, they brainstormed ways to come up with a solution that would satisfy the wife's need to be taken care of financially while still taking care of her need for attention from her husband. Some of the suggestions here are already starting to point towards similar solutions for you and your wife.

Good luck. Keep reading and posting here. It sounds like you are intelligent enough to get it sooner than some, thereby saving you and your wife a lot of needless suffering.

john:

"As a Christian, I've always embraced the idea that happiness is "wanting what you have" not "having what you want".

But then I begin to worry that at age 80 I'm going to look back and regret my restraint, wish I had taken every opportunity for hedonism, and despise my choices."

Well, I'm a "spiri2al atheist" raised as a Christian, and I would have 2 say that it really shouldn't matter whether you're religious or not. Even atheists have morals (the good ones, just like the good religious people).

This song by Peter Gabriel comes 2 my mind many times, particularly the verse about what we leave behind:

"Make Tomorrow" -Peter Gabriel

"Put on the dress in which you were married
Pull down the veil til your eyes are hid
Can you remember where we both came from
Let us do as we did

Look at tomorrow today
Making tomorrow today (repeat)

Put back the photo under your window
Put down the phone that you hold in your hand
Put away these things that stand in between us
Let us be what we can
When it seems
Hopeless

Make tomorrow. Make tomorrow. Make tomorrow today

What better measure of what you were doing here
Than what you can leave behind
All of the children of your children's children
Do you ever think what they're going to find?

Make tomorrow, Make tomorrow
Where the sacred meet the scared
Make tomorrow, Make tomorrow
Where the dreamer's dream is dared

In each of us
A dream can burn like the sun
Let's try it all one more time
To get this lesson learned

Sitting up in a spaceship
Looking down at the earth
You wonder what they're all stuggling for
What's it all really worth?
Making tomorrow today"

-ol' 2long

Only a minute to post before we leave for the day.

Things much better. Had a completely honest conversation in which I told W the most difficult stuff. Anger, dissapointment, distrust are all major issues right now, but we both seem to be able to see past this to a better marriage overall.

My W came with me to the school last night. Had lunch with me and actually spent the last hour and fifteen minutes in class with me (surfing the net while I did paperwork and answered student questions).

Other W either wasn't at work or decided not to stop by class (maybe because of cold shoulder I gave her day before).

More later. God bless and thanks again, everyone.

jg

Mission accomplished?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope so for you and your wife john.Keep those DEEP lines of communication open and spend lots of time together.Let us know how you're doing.

Good luck!

O

john_g
I'd like to give you a few comments from my situation that might help you. (If you want to read the details on my situation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=004313 ) Anyway, I too have had a couple of situations like this over the course of my M. I was able to avoid actually having and A (or even an EA), but my W somehow thought that I had. This was part of her excuse that allowed herself to have an A. Looking back I can see how maybe I "changed" around these times. I didn't think that I had anything to cover up, but I did. And by not being Honest and Open, I cheated my marriage by not being able to provide certain EN that we both needed. (Basically, I feel that I drove her to the A.)

Also, turtlehead is correct in her comment - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By the way, your feedback to our posts and answers to the questions we ask makes it very rewarding to post to you. We quickly give up when posting to a "void" - a person who doesn't respond. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck! and keep posting, it's therapeutic reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi John! I just wanted to stop in and say that I think your W is very lucky to have you for a H. For you to come here BEFORE this went any further and to admit so early on to her. You are a strong man for being so honest with her and yourself.

I would like to make one suggestion regarding the wedding rings. We used to take ours off at night when we first got married...My H misplaced his one night, then the next day went out to buy a new one. since that day, neither one of us have taken our rings off. H took his off for a week during his A and I took mine off for one day. it is one sure way NOT to lose the ring. Just a suggestion! Good luck to you and your wife!

John,

I’ve read all your updates this morning and I’m so glad to see how favorably things have progressed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You handled the situation with the coworker perfectly by behaving in a reversed, professional fashion towards her. It seems she have received the “message” without any “explanations” or “direct talk” from your side and that’s good! The simpler you can keep this, the better. I have a good feeling that OW won’t bother you anymore if you continue to treat her in a cold, professional way. I’m also very glad you told your W everything. I agree with Momto3boys, you are indeed a strong and honorable man for being so honest and by coming here on this forum before this went any further and admit it so early on towards your W. Your actions indeed show your love, commitment and loyalty towards your W and I’m sure deep down, she realizes and appreciates this. Keep posting and update us on your progress! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless,
Suzet

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Thank you, everyone, for the encouraging words. I'm taking each comment to heart. I would respond to each personally if I had enough time!

My W is incredibly forgiving and we have been extremely close since Saturday morning when we made up. I can see that she wants to be there for me. I've noticed a lot of changes in her. I didn't even really ask her to change, I just mentioned some things that could make my life easier and she ran with them.

Turtle, the "waffling" thing IS a serious issue for me. Last night, the school had this silly carnival event that includes a cookout, dunk tank, and other activities. I'm not really friends with any of the other instructors. I, being naturally shy, find such occasions awkward. I couldn't help but think of the "connection" I have with this coworker. If I had given in and talked to her, I would've been completely comfortable and probably even enjoyed myself. (I didn't talk to her, by the way.)

I must've been projecting my melancholy because one of my students told me later I looked like someone took my lollipop (interesting way of putting it).

I find how comfortable I am around coworker very disturbing. I have no doubt that those who get into A use this comfort as an indication that it's "right." I have to firmly reject that thought. I guess Turtle said it best about the temptation to ascribe the situation to fate.

I suppose I am "mean" in my coworkers eyes... and I have to reject any guilt I feel in this. I'm not being mean to this woman, I am being faithful to my wife. I can't be faithful without being this way. So my actions are completely justifiable. And even if I am mean I think that is okay and necessary.

Boy, this would be a great time to quit this job. For those who are of the faith out there, I'd appreciate prayers that our financial situation will allow me to leave here within the next two terms (by mid-June).

Meremortal, the Policy of Joint Agreement sounds like a great idea. I want to check it out and will make it a point to do so. W and I have consistently had contention over large purchases. I always wince at the financial impact and she always pulls a "see, I told you so" when it doesn't ruin us financially. And yet, even tho we aren't "ruined" I'm forced into doing things that prior to the purchase I did willingly (ahem, working at night).

His Needs/Her Needs is pretty good so far. I must've started reading this book at some time in the past, because I remember different parts of it. Just got past the Affection/Sex part. To be honest, I could be more affectionate. I don't think there is a problem in the other area. I'm a happy man with no complaints. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If I remember right, one of the needs is a man's need for admiration... and I think that is something I value almost to a point of overpowering hunger. (Probably what appealed to me in the coworker's attitude toward me.) Can't remember, I think that is one of the five needs of men in book. I'll find out soon enough.

Thank you to those who commended me. I wish I could say I am "cured," but I'm a very weak person. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

I'm feeling lonely, guilty and downcast. I'm going to try to talk to my wife about it before I go to work tonight.

Y'all are the best. Thank you again for your time and words.

john g


P.S.

2long, I like your taste in music. I am a huge Peter Gabriel fan, from old Genesis on up. (Haven't got his latest album.) Thanks so much for your advice and input even if we don't see eye-to-eye on matters of faith.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose I am "mean" in my coworkers eyes... and I have to reject any guilt I feel in this. I'm not being mean to this woman, I am being faithful to my wife. I can't be faithful without being this way. So my actions are completely justifiable. And even if I am mean I think that is okay and necessary. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Way to go! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> John, you’re 100% right! Just continue to keep it this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I could say I am "cured," but I'm a very weak person.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not a weak man at all! To the contrary, it takes a STRONG and HONEST person to admit his own human weaknesses and vulnerabilities and don’t ACT on inappropriate feelings. Remember Paulus once said When I’m weak, I’m strong. Why? Because then he only had the strength of God to help him through… ”Often in our weaknesses we find our greatest strength”. This is very true words! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet, thanks for the encouraging words.

I know my story's sort of "old news" and I'm sorry I'm not able to get on here a little more often... I just wanted everyone to know how much their advice helped.

I feel great. My wife and I are closer than we've been in years. My feelings for this coworker are presently almost non-existent.

I have this distinct sense I saved my wife and myself an intense amount of misery and anguish. I feel like a free man.

I give props first to God and then to y'all out there who took me to task, insisted I be responsible and convinced me to do the right thing.

I know I am nowhere near "safe" yet. Depending on the day, I find myself pining for the EA... but I wanted to take a minute and be happy about where my wife and I are right now.

If any of you are struggling with temptation, just know that there is nothing "real" in the temptation. There is nothing you can get from the OP that you probably couldn't get--with work--from your own spouse.

What I have with my wife at the moment--after we experienced this near-disaster--is ten times better than what I found myself wanting before with this temptation.

I feel so good when I think about my wife and who she is. I know everyone comes from a different place, but there is hope even when you feel hopeless.

Thanks again...

jg

john_g,

Many thanks for the update. I hadn't read your story in a while -- I'm thrilled to know you came completely clean with your W. I know she must have been hurt and angry and frightened. In the long run, though, think how much she'll trust you and how secure she'll be. You have proven to her that in tough times you turn to her and do what is right, rather than what is momentarily attractive.

You'll find out as you continue reading His Needs, Her Needs that although out of the ten common needs five "typically" are male needs and five are "typically" female needs, your own situation will almost certainly vary from the typical. My H and I each have in our top 3 ENs one that is "typically" belonging to the opposite gender. Also, you may find you have a need that isn't in the ten listed. That's okay. What's important is that you let your W know what your top needs are so that she can fill them.

I like the analogy in "Fall In Love, Stay In Love" (also by Harley) where he says you may make the most beautiful hot dog casserole in the world, but if you spouse doesn't like hot dog casseroles, you're wasting your time.

My H read that and said "Honey, I'm going to spend all weekend making you a lovely coconut cake, to show my great love for you" (he knows I can't stand coconut) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I guess what I'm trying to say is keep reading and invite your W to read the book with you. If she'll do the questionnaire(s) in the book, that's even better. You'll have a guidebook on how to make her happy. You can focus your efforts where they're most effective rather than where she won't really notice.

One of the hardest things about meeting ENs is in realizing that your spouses ENs are NOT your own, and just because it seems dumb to you doesn't mean it isn't the end-all and be-all of ENs for your spouse. I don't think you'll fall into that trap at all. You seem to realize that her ENs are as real and valid as your own, even though they may be different from yours.

What a happy, happy story yours has been to read! It could so easily have been a tragedy.

Hello John,

Just wanted to add a couple additional thoughts.

You know, God is faithful to supply our need, not our greed.

As a Christian woman to her Christian brother let me say that finding yourself over your head financially can bring ruin to more than just the financial aspect of family life. You and W have gotten yourself into a bind financially that caused you to almost get into a "bind" emotionally and sexually.

A false god can be more than a little golden cow.
It can also be a small green piece of paper with a dead president's face on it. Don't worship that god and all it seems to promise, it's promises will leave you empty after the newness wears off. You're much better off depending on the One that will be faithful to supply ALL of your needs, financial, emotional, spiritual and RELATIONAL. Make Him your focus and you and wife will live life abundantly, in much more satisfying ways than that temporary false god provides. All the best to you and your wife!

Thanks, Turtle. Your words remind me of a saying I heard once that "being sincere isn't enough, because you can be sincerely wrong." I've got some good ideas on what my wife's love needs are, but I've got to practice meeting them. Thanks for your help.

MBard,
Your point on a greed is well made and a good reminder. We're trying to figure out how to make it manageable for me to give up this evening job.
Thanks for the input.

God bless,

jg

John,

Sorry for my late response. I was a few days off-line due to problems (virus) on the work’s network. I just want to say I’m very glad you’re doing so good and that things are going so well for you and your W under the circumstances!

You’re a very lucky man in the sense that you could stop this thing before you’ve started to developed a strong emotional attachment towards the OW as well… You’ve only experienced a strong physical attraction towards her (without the emotional side) and that’s why your feelings for this coworker became almost non-existent so soon. Because of this you’re recovery will be so much sooner for both you and your W.

I was not so lucky in that regard: I've developed a strong friendship with OM long before the friendship became inappropriate and physical attraction came into the picture. I can tell you it's very, very hard to overcome such a connection where you have learned to genually care for the other person... And for women it is especially hard to overcome the emotional part.

May you continue to find strength and wisdom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

jg

You have recieved some very good advice here already but let me give what might be a different perspective. Looking at the signatures of some of your respondents they are BS's, others I can't tell for sure so here's the deal:
I am a WS and what you have related here about what has been going on in your life I can say to some degree, "that sounds like me"..."that is where I (we, OW and I) began";"Those were the feelings I felt". OW and I went to the next level as to what you have described here and with each step I took I was deeper and deeper into that relationship. I wonder what would have happened if I had posted what you have posted here or admitted to someone who I knew wouldn't have supported my behavior how would have things turned out? There wasn't a Pepperband, Ark^^, Toomuchcoffeeman, Silverthorn, Blondblosom there for me to write to and as I write this the tears are starting to roll down my face because I am so thankful for them and the others who have helped to pull me out of that pit. D day was about three years ago, there was continued contact until last August. I have spent most of those three years in depression;which eventually got to the place where I was not able to do much of anything. My W will never be the same, to put it mildly. I am so grateful to her that she has stood by her vows to me even though I wasn't faithful to her. Do you really want to go down that road?
H