Mrs X,
I forgot that you've been gone most of the week and never answered that question.

I asked the following...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ladies,
I have some other questions that will help male BSs. They relate to the sexual side of the affair.

It seems that I've seen post after post where in male BS say that their FWSs have claimed that the affair sex was average at best and more typically disappointing. I find that hard to believe.

Tempted Woman says that more times than not it's the best sex that the married woman has ever experienced.

Do you agree or disagree? Sorry to ask such a personal question. Also if these questions are reminding you of feelings for OM we can stop. Or you can go to the previous page and remind yourself of what OM wanted ie no commitment, illicit sex etc.

cwmac
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have time answer both but if you need to prioitize then answer the questions in quotes above.

Thanks for the honest feedback.

I really wish my wife would come to this site and post her thoughts and feelings whether anonymously or not. She seems to think that after 2.5 years of lies and just 7 months since the "truth" has co0me out that I should be back to "normal."

cwmac

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cwmac:
<strong> Mrs X,
I forgot that you've been gone most of the week and never answered that question.

I asked the following...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ladies,
I have some other questions that will help male BSs. They relate to the sexual side of the affair.

It seems that I've seen post after post where in male BS say that their FWSs have claimed that the affair sex was average at best and more typically disappointing. I find that hard to believe.

Tempted Woman says that more times than not it's the best sex that the married woman has ever experienced.

Do you agree or disagree? Sorry to ask such a personal question. Also if these questions are reminding you of feelings for OM we can stop. Or you can go to the previous page and remind yourself of what OM wanted ie no commitment, illicit sex etc.

cwmac
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have time answer both but if you need to prioitize then answer the questions in quotes above.

Thanks for the honest feedback.

I really wish my wife would come to this site and post her thoughts and feelings whether anonymously or not. She seems to think that after 2.5 years of lies and just 7 months since the "truth" has co0me out that I should be back to "normal."

cwmac </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well gosh, you aren't gonna like my answer because, yes, the sex w/OMM was the BEST sex I have ever had. And I know I was the best he ever had too. No fog talk or fantasy talk there, that's the facts.

Sex w/my H has been an ongoing issue in our M because he had always been a pre-mature ejaculator and when he was finished I would be left very much unfulfilled and he would never try to do anything else to please me, even though there were other ways that he could have done so. I would most times just masturbate afterward to get my satisfaction. Things are improving a bit sexually, even after DDay he still wanted to have sex, and he is trying harder now to control himself and last longer. We still have very little foreplay, hates to perform oral, he doesn't like tongue kissing and if he does finish before me he pretty much is done. Not that he is malicious about it, don't get me wrong, he feels bad when he knows that I wasn't satisfied, and I feel bad that he feels bad, but he doesn't feel comfortable doing things other than intercourse.

W/OMM, it was like I was getting everything sexually that I was missing for years. And the same for OMM. From what he told me, his W is a lot like my H. Not only that, but I happen to be a pretty hot number and I love to please in bed and there is nothing I won't do.

I will point out that I really don't miss the sex w/OMM b/c when I think about it now, I feel disgusted with myself for having sex with him. Yes on a physical and emotional level it was terrific, but morally and spiritually I am sickened with myself.

Jenny

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BTW, what were the preaffair issues in your marriage? Besides the conflict/ anger issue, my wife didn't get the affection that she needed.

It's funny how sex is important to you and it's one of my top needs but doesn't seem to be high on our spouse's list. In my case it created resentment for several reasons. It was used as a reward and it was withheld as punishment. W wasn't real interested in trying anyhting new. Sorry if that's too much information. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK now to answer this question,

Pre-affair issues are:

My finances, I spend WAY too much money and H had to bail me out of serious credit card debt. I also ruined his excellent credit in the process.
BIG ISSUE

I get lazy sometimes around the house. The house is always clean but I have a bad habit of not picking up after myself, leaving shoes and clothes laying around, and H picks up after me, he gets very annoyed with me, and understandably so.

I have a hard time following through on things I say I am going to do. I will tell H I will pick up the cat food, then forget to do it, and he will have to pick it up on his way home. I say I'll follow up on business things that require a phone call and days will go by before I remember to do it. Naturally, H will ride my back until I finally do it.

I definitely have some bad habits that drive H nuts.

Now big issues for me are my EN's.

My ENs:
1. Sex - read previous post.

2. Affection - H isn't as affectionate as I would like him to be. No passionate kissing and he shies away from snuggling often.

3. Communication - Many of the things I talk about H finds immature or unintelligent. I guess I am a kid at heart and I like to have fun, he is more serious and gets quite condescending with me. I refuse to change who I am, however.

4. Extra-Curricular activities - I am very athletic, I love to go to the gym, go running, rollerblade, bicycle, etc. I love to go to NYC, we live 2 miles away on the NJ side, and he hates the city. I want to go to shows and nice dinners in Manhattan. H isn't interested in any of the above. He doesn't even want to go with me to do any of these things. We don't really like the same music or have many of the same interests. For years I tagged along with him to places he likes to go (that honestly, I have NO interest in whatsoever) and I feel I have put my feelings aside and went along with him to make him happy. He would never do the same for me.

5. Quality time - H works strange hours and comes home after midnight almost every night. H has his own business and can pretty much make his own hours, however, he chooses to work thru the night and we don't spend much time together due to the fact that I work 8am-4pm. I come home to an empty house every day and when I wake up he is sleeping. We rarely have dinner together, I rarely cook b/c I never know when he'll be home.

6. Children - I am 34 years old this year and I feel like the clock is ticking for child bearing. I have discussed children w/H and he isn't so keen on the idea. He is 42 so I think he is becoming less and less keen on the idea b/c he is getting closer to middle age. I want children, H doesn't. I would like to get myself in a better financial position before I have a baby, but once I do, I WANT A BABY. This is going to be a huge issue in the near future for us.

7. Travel, Family: My family lives in the south. Mom moved there after she remarried and found a new job. Siblings followed soon thereafter. I don't get to see them very often, not nearly as often as I'd like. H only likes to travel to New England because he owns a home there. I love going to NE but that's not the only place I want to go. I want to see my family, and I want to go to tropical places, cruises, the beach, etc. H is not even remotely interested. We have had arguments over this and his excuse is we can't afford it. I think we can afford it and even just to travel to see my family (we can stay with my brother who has a guest bedroom) wouldn't be that expensive.

8. Romance - I want to go to romantic restaurants, I want my H to bring me flowers once in a while, tell me I am beautiful spontaneously, etc. H thinks flowers are a waste of money and even on valentine's day I only get a card. Maybe it's superficial to expect tangible things but it would make me so happy if H would send me a bouquet at work. That would make me feel special. I need to feel special.

OK that's it for now. I probably sound like the most superficial, selfish whiny baby EVER, but there ya have it.

mrsx

CWMAC: Great question.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
4/28/04 It seems that I've seen post after post where in male BS say that their FWSs have claimed that the affair sex was average at best and more typically disappointing. I find that hard to believe. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’ve been wanting to know that from my WW for 2 months now. She has told me that his P was smaller than mine (at this point does it matter, can I believe her after the 14 months of lies?) and that he had trouble getting it up (OM confessed that to his W also). But was that part of his deception (in case he got caught)? W wrote me a letter recently that said that she didn’t genuinely enjoy sex with him. Well, what the hell does that mean? She enjoyed it but then felt guilty about it later or never really enjoyed it at all? I doubt it, but doubt that I’ll ever really know. In this case, my W supposedly never got totally undressed and the OM never took off his shoes and sometimes not his ball cap (since he’s bald and conscientious about it).

One thing that I’ve noticed since the A was outed is that sex with my W is better than ever. She “allows” me to express my love to her sexually. It used to be that she would just clamp down her kegel muscles and I’d be lucky if I lasted 2 minutes. It got to the point that I thought something was wrong with me and that I needed Viagra or something. Since then, we’ve had 20-40 minute sessions (not even including the foreplay). One thing that I’ve found different since dday is that W is not very affectionate towards me, really has to work at it and doesn’t particularly like kissing (or so it seems). I can remember kissing like 16 year olds in college. Oh how I miss those days. I guess I can attribute some of that to our "growing apart" over the years and that hopefully that will come back as time passes.

Lisa103, MrsX & KiwiJ,
Thanks for the replies ladies. I appreciate it. Sound as though two of the three would definitely say that it was the best sex ever as quoted in Tempted Women. For the third it sounds as though H and OM were both good, but OM was more liberating.

Of course my wife said that OM was not that good. She said he didn't make her O and that he made an "embarrassing whining" at the end.

She also claims that they only had the oppurtunity to do it once. Although they lived an hour apart, this still sounds like BS. They would meet for dinners and lunches at the halfway point.

Since the truth has come out in drips and drabs, I'm at the point where I'm not sure what is truth and what is potentially changing story

Not knowing whether I have the whole truth really bothers me.

Also, I have practically begged her to come to this site and post so that she'll know that I'm not the only male BS who has tough days. To her it's one step forward five steps back while to me it's five steps forward and only one step back. I think this fits into her "just get over It" pattern.

Sorry didn't mean to vent, but it does get frustrating. It seems like I'm the only one who is really working on recovery. I read surviving affair or marriage help books. I come here to MB. I stopped drinking. I take "happy" pills. I'm the one that has made the biggest personal changes. She seems to be in this state of mind that believes I'm the only one that needs improvement and when I finally get my act together well then recovery can move full speed ahead.

Any thoughts? Do your Hs come to MB or do they refuse?

cwmac

<small>[ May 02, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Jenny

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Jenny

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

RecoveringH,
Didn't mean to ignore your post. Just thanking the ladies for their opinions and experience.

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’ve been wanting to know that from my WW for 2 months now. She has told me that his P was smaller than mine (at this point does it matter, can I believe her after the 14 months of lies?) and that he had trouble getting it up (OM confessed that to his W also). But was that part of his deception (in case he got caught)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2 months?! That's nothing I'm still working om getting the info 2 years after the events and 6 months after the true DDay. I'm with you; not sure I have the accurate info. W told me that she lied about the PA bc she was scared and also didn't want to hurt me. Didn't want to hurt me = tell more lies so that FWW isn't uncomfortable with the situation's guilt.

and....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One thing that I’ve found different since dday is that W is not very affectionate towards me, really has to work at it and doesn’t particularly like kissing (or so it seems). I can remember kissing like 16 year olds in college. Oh how I miss those days. I guess I can attribute some of that to our "growing apart" over the years and that hopefully that will come back as time passes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since my Dday I am almost brutally honest with my W. So if she were reacting the way your W is I'd come right out and ask her what was going on?

Is she still in w/drawal from OM??

cwmac

KiwiJ
All I can say to your posts is LOL!!!!!

The embarrassing whining part was told to me the same night that the truth of the physical nature of the A came out.

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That is such a good sign cwmac whether you know it or not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another piece of info that I was told that night had to do with OM & W's conversations days & weeks after the sex. In essence I was told that he was fishing for compliments about the size of his willy. Compliments is the wrong word. He was looking for affirmation that it wasn't small. Needless to say this comment created more questions. Several weeks later when I asked a few related questions she looked at me as though I was hallucinating and she said," I never said that."

As I said to Recovering H, the story has changed so many times that I really don't still know what is truth and what is a lie. She says that she lies so that she won't hurt my feelings but as I said to RecveringH I think it equals W doesn't want to feel any pain related to guilt. So in other words more selfish behavior!!

I'll admit the sex bothers me but so do all of the lies of ommission and commisssion.

cwmac

Seriously cwmac, if you want to know you have every right to ask.

My H knows me so well that he hasn't needed to ask for details. He did say to me "I bet you used all your womanly wiles to get him away from his W". All I said was "yes". He knows what that means.

OM and I had "sex" 10 times in 18 months. But there were a lot of HJ's and BJ's. I do call that sex and I think most people would.

I'm not a BS, I suppose if I was I would want every single detail right down to every word spoken. Details do get muddled up you know. I can remember the details of about 5 of the 10 occasions because they were "different".

Jenny

Geez, this is real helpful to me and cwmac too, in a sadistic kinda way. You see, I have the opportunity to have an A with a man, who is extremely good looking, one year younger than me. He sounds typical of the OMM stereotype, as quoted earlier. I'm the BS, same-ish age as Jenny, but with a better body <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and I've really been sweating on whether to do the deed or not. OMM sets my head spinning and I can feel the fog rolling my way when I'm around him. BUT I'd thought the sex might be lacking because of 32 yrs of faithfulness to my H. So, I learn here on MB's that the sex is great with Other Married Men. Even the older gals can testify to its wow factor.

cwmac? you sure are persecuting yourself with what the lovely unfaithful ladies (?) got up to. I almost feel compelled to rush on out to meet my flight attendant and **** him right this very minute - so I can give you another opinion.

You really should get yourself a bit of what all the fuss is about! Hey, maybe yours will swallow too (is that what you were alluding to Jen?) I want me some of the action, so I can boast about my prowess between the sheets..... or on the back seat of a car.

cwmac, I recognise your cool, calm, questioning in this thread, a back door approach to getting some insight into what your wife enjoyed or didn't enjoy. This seems a sure fire way to make your pain worse, especially when the ladies are so willing to give you details of their PA's. You maybe should imagine the very worst, that he had a bigger [censored] and he was great in bed and he was everything you aren't. Another thing he has over you x 1000. He's a total arsehole!

Sorry, but I think there's been a bit of indiscretion going on in this thread, that is in nobody's best interest. Do you really think the jokes and details about what you got up to with someone else's H, helps cwmac? Even if he asks, you should have enough sensitivity to consider his pain.

Hey Anyname,

F@*% You!

The reason I asked these ladies those questions and read a book like Tempted Women is because my wife and as I said many FWWs continue to lie to me and their male BSs. They lie "to protect our feelings." Protect are feelings = makes it more comfortable for them ie. easier for them ie. less guilt associated.

My W refuses to come here so she has no clue of Radical Honesty. Refuses either due to guilt or stubbornness or both.

The thread started on another thread where I posted a summary of the book Tempted Women. It was written from a female's perspectice to try and prevent married women from having affairs. It outlined the pitfalls of relationships that get too close. The entire last chapter is a list of testimonials from FWWs who regret having had affairs.

It also outlined what the OM was looking for. If you read that summary. It'll help you keep your panties on.

It also outlines why male BS have so much rage compared to their female counterparts.

IMHO, reading all of that was helpfull for the three FWWs who responded, especially Lisa103 who still sounds as though she might be borderline desirous to call her OM. The other two IMHO deeply regret what they've done. KiwiJ has a sense of humor typical to her region (A/NZ). I understood that and took it as such.

So I think you either didn't read the entire post or you just focussed on the part that you thought was titilating.

I think you owe the ladies, especially KiwiJ, an apology. Are you big enough? Doubt it based upon that post!

cwmac

PS I wish this board had a way to specifically block AHoles like you. Yosh (Mr Divorce the slut you fool!) would be another good candidate.

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi cwMac and everyone.
We DO all get 'knowledge' by the sharing from other BS or WS.
The following kinda explains a little of what goes on in the mind of a WW.

The thing about affairs is it makes your wife feel like she is NOT a married person for the time she is WITH or THINKING about the OM.
She feels young and sexy like she felt BEFORE she was married!

When she had the affair, she was not thinking of your feelings, , only the 'powerful thrilling feelings' that it gave her.
Probably she is not sure how to handle these new passionate feelings of desire!

WS's become uninhibited and free with their passionate feelings for the OP.
Do things they never ever would have done with their mates. (OS, rear entry, on top, passionate tongue kisses, etc.)
Whereas with their mates, they just are kinda 'ho hum'.('DO IT' in several mins. without even kisses!)

Affairs are thrilling and exciting and the CONSEQUENCES are not considered at the time.

I truly believe if you can just hang in there, your wife will once again feel the love and affection you so desire from her.

It takes quite a bit of TIME to get past these new exciting feelings she is having for the OM!
Lots of time.

No Contact cannot be forced, it has to come from her heart to stop contact, or it just won't work!

Your love and forgiveness can be a 'light at the end of the tunnel' for her.

You are a GOOD man and I am sure she is a GOOD woman that is side-tracted right now.
Sincerely, Julie
P.S. I wrote similar to this to 'staggered' as he and you seem to be in almost the same BOAT!

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

cwmac

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Didn't mean to ignore your post. Just thanking the ladies for their opinions and experience. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a problem...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
2 months?! That's nothing I'm still working om getting the info 2 years after the events and 6 months after the true DDay. I'm with you; not sure I have the accurate info. W told me that she lied about the PA bc she was scared and also didn't want to hurt me. Didn't want to hurt me = tell more lies so that FWW isn't uncomfortable with the situation's guilt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There might/probably is some of that going on in my situation. I've felt for a few weeks that we've been on a plateau in our recovery (of course some of that can probably be attributed to being busy).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Since my Dday I am almost brutally honest with my W. So if she were reacting the way your W is I'd come right out and ask her what was going on?

Is she still in w/drawal from OM?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I, too, have been brutally honest since dday. I think that has led at times to some of the steps backwards (ie 2 steps forward, 1 step back). But I think they're things we need to talk about, get out there, so that we can get past them. Otherwise, they're just obstacles to be overcome later on in the process.

I think she's over the withdrawal part, but I not certain. She hasn't been very affectionate towards me on a regualar basis since our last kid was born. She doesn't use this board but is aware of it. And when the MC gives her an assignment, she does listen and apply it in the M.

I know lately, I haven't asked questions, because I didn't want to fall into that back slip. And I am a conflict avoider. Plus, being busy, I haven't wanted to "start" something at an inopportune time.

One other thought. I have to agree with you in your response to anyname. For me, my imagination is much worse than what actually may have happened. B/c I imagine it worse than it may have been. But not knowing for sure, I keep playing it over and over again and it changes and morphs into additional situations and complications, which keeps compounding the thoughts in my head. I haven't got the book, Tempted Woman, yet, but plan too. Anyname, you do need to read the other threads to get the whole picture. For me, this has been very therapeutic.

RecoveringH,
You said that you were going to buy "Tempted Women." I'd say that's fine if it is read after some of the other affair & marriage related books.

I've read the following:

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass
The Road Less Travelled by ?
Men are from Mars; Women...Venus by John Gray

Currently reading Getting the Love You Want by H H?? forget the author's name.

I was at the library and saw Tempted Women and thought it was interesting since it was sprecifically written for married woamen. I'm not even sure it's still in print. Hopefully if it is there is an updated edition.

The author is Carol Botwin.

BTW, the sad thing with my W is that we kinda read "Not Just Friends" together. Glass specifically says that it is best for the FWS to come completely "clean" at one time. Drips & drabs is not the way to do it and can stall recovery.

Recovering H, I'm glad that my post has helped (despite what Anytime/AnyWay/AnyPlace says)

cwmac

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Sorry to go back a couple of posts but that was quite a flame I took from Anyname.

The reason I didn't say "swallow" was because I didn't want to get kicked off here for soft porn.

The reason I told you the "funny" stories was to show you that your w is probably also comparing OM to you and OM isn't looking too good.

I'll go back and read the rest of your posts now.

By the way I'm from NZ.

Jenny

KiwiJ,
Believe me Anywho's post pissed me off as well.

Yes, I know that you are from NZ. I think I put A/NZ region meaning Australia/New Zealand. Happy belated ANZAC day BTW!

cwmac

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

cwmac:

One of the things that has helped me to cope with this has been reading. I've read HNHN, SAA, Torn Assunder, several websites, started reading Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, started rereading a Norman Vincent Peale book I got when I was 16, another book about Everything Great in Marriage (but it wasn't a very good book, a book by William Glass (or Glasser) (I can't remember the name of it, but it was recommended by our MC). From reading the other thread where you originally posted the Tempted Woman stuff, it was very compelling. I went to the library last week looking for it (but no luck, our library is not very progressive or big) and I just took out a book on retirement (not that I'm ready to retire, but hey, you have to start sometime. But then again, my goal was to retire in 6 years though that might not be realistic anymore.

I'm not sure how thoroughly the W read any of the books. I know she read the one recommended by the MC, because we talked about that one and HNHN. Well, hang in there, we'll get this thing figured out. Well, I'll end this here as this post feels like it has changed the thread topic, and I was enjoying it previously <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 03, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]</small>

cwmac, I've gone back and edited out some of my posts.

There was something in the way that Anyname called me "Jen", which is what everyone who knows me calls me, that gave me the creeps.

Jenny