:::::reason I asked these ladies those questions and read a book like Tempted Women is because my wife and as I said many FWWs continue to lie to me and their male BSs. They lie "to protect our feelings." Protect are feelings = makes it more comfortable for them ie. easier for them ie. less guilt associated.

cwmac, yes I had worked that out. I read the entire thread carefully and I've been on the receiving end of the lies.

::::My W refuses to come here so she has no clue of Radical Honesty. Refuses either due to guilt or stubbornness or both.

yes, you mentioned that in the thread.


:::It also outlined what the OM was looking for. If you read that summary. It'll help you keep your panties on.

I read the quotes and found them very interesting. Actually, I've never had a problem keeping my panties on until I discovered that I was the only one playing by the rules. I'm not religious, but the eye for an eye appoach has certain appeal to me. Put things back on an even footing?

:::It also outlines why male BS have so much rage compared to their female counterparts.

Geezus, don't tell me that rage is gender specific. I have physically attacked my H several times since d-day (and I only weigh 112lbs!). Our lounge ceiling is wearing freshly squeezed o/j. And I made a scene at a dinner party the other nite when some old git started shooting his mouth off about getting young women because of the size of his wallet. If I've learned anything from this site, it's that males and females react much the same to infidelity. However, I doubt that too many males have been as reactive as I have been. """Hell have no fury, like a woman spurned""". Fact is, I wouldn't have given a sh*t what the ladies had to say, if I hadn't experienced the BS angle first hand.

:::IMHO, reading all of that was helpfull for the three FWWs who responded, especially Lisa103 who still sounds as though she might be borderline desirous to call her OM. The other two IMHO deeply regret what they've done.

If a FWH were to come on this site and talk about the incredible sex he had with the OW - can you imagine the reception he would get here? I could see that you were relating it back to what your wife hasn't told you, but I was offended by the boastful tones of the comments. That kind of detail is neither appropriate for WH's OR WW's on a site designed to rebuild marriages. Your question could have been answered with a general overview.


:::KiwiJ has a sense of humor typical to her region (A/NZ). I understood that and took it as such.

You don't understand the A/NZ sense of humor - as some of my post was tongue in cheek - a typically Australian reaction to being insulted.

::So I think you either didn't read the entire post or you just focussed on the part that you thought was titilating.

I found it disturbing not titilating. I had never heard women talk like that before. It came across as boastful and self promoting. e.g. I'm so sexy, I can please a man, there ain't nothing I won't do - you name it, I've done it, with my lover and/but not with my H bla bla bla. Why do these so called deeply regretful ladies need to talk about this stuff to anyone but their BH's? It's inappropriate whether you tell me to get fu*ked or not. And you know it is.

:::I think you owe the ladies, especially KiwiJ, an apology. Are you big enough? Doubt it based upon that post!

Don't make me laugh. Am I as big as KiwiJ? If I had done what KiwiJ boasted she did, I'd at least have the good grace to keep it to myself, if at all possible. Not to share with every tom, [censored] and harry that thinks he has a good reason to ask. It always makes me wonder what is wrong with people who need to get more from the act, than was experienced at the time. Why the need for talking it up?

The other thing is that there are some very deeply wounded people here, you me and the entire cast. I am extremely vulnerable and I have had a great offer to get even - thankyou god for sending me someone so tasty to do it with. I had thought the sex wouldn't be that good with the OMM, until I read what the girls had to say about sex outside M. So, does sharing information about how great sex was with OMM help everyone here, or might it have the oppose effect for some people?

I knew you'd be p'd off at me. But I wasn't letting them away with that degree of insensitivity. There is no reason, no matter what justification put forward, to boast/talk of sexual delights with OP. It's not in harmony with the environment of this site. So I don't think an apology is in order. BUT I do apologise when I am wrong - check a recent post to brokenheart03, where I grovelled unconditionally at her greater wisdom. Sorry, no can do on this one.

I'll &^%$ off now, as requested.

Maybe if we all ignore Anytime/Anyway/Anyhow, she log off and go back to tormenting her husband, poor [censored].

All WS have some justification for their affairs. Some have to stretch less than others.

::::All WS have some justification for their affairs. Some have to stretch less than others.

Whatever. If it makes you feel a bigger man to be offensive, go for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cwmac:
<strong> Maybe if we all ignore Anytime/Anyway/Anyhow, she log off and go back to tormenting her husband, poor [censored].

All WS have some justification for their affairs. Some have to stretch less than others. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that was mean cwmac. She may have been a little brutal in what she said about WW's here, but you know there was some truth in it. I also don't see why anyone needs to talk about how great sex was with their OM to a BH. The only person you need honesty from is your wife, and her truth may not be anywhere close to theirs.

Her h was no more "justified" in his adulterous relationship than my h was or your wife was.

Whew, final some words of sense - thanks 'toomanylies', I must admit that I was wondering what sort of web site this was.

You see, I am the 'tormented, poor [censored]' to whom 'cwmac' referred! I do not feel sorry for myself (it seems he pities me - highly misguided conclusion) as I deserve everything that I get as a result of my infidelity. My wife does not deserve everything that has happened to her, including inappropriate comments from what appear to be more experienced members of this board.

'Anyname' is my wife, the most incredible person I have ever met, bar none, and the person to whom I am desperate to stay attached for the rest of my life. I recognize that I can never make up for my betrayal of my best friend, but count myself unbelievably lucky that she is still with me. I love her.

For all of you: You do not know us or our relationship - do not jump to conclusions.

::::::'Anyname' is my wife, the most incredible person I have ever met, bar none, and the person to whom I am desperate to stay attached for the rest of my life. I recognize that I can never make up for my betrayal of my best friend, but count myself unbelievably lucky that she is still with me. I love her.

Anyhow, If all of the above is true for you, then how could you think I would actually go with that gorgeous flight attendant? You know me? I introduced him to the MB's web site and told him to look see into his future! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

thanx for the support. You can have an extra serving of snuggles tonite!

anyname

::::::'Anyname' is my wife, the most incredible person I have ever met, bar none, and the person to whom I am desperate to stay attached for the rest of my life. I recognize that I can never make up for my betrayal of my best friend, but count myself unbelievably lucky that she is still with me. I love her.

Anyhow, If all of the above is true for you, then how could you think I would actually go with that gorgeous flight attendant? You know me? I introduced him to the MB's web site and told him to look see into his future! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

thanx for the support. You can have an extra serving of snuggles tonite!

anyname

The reson I was "mean" is that was a judgmental jerk.

In case you didn't see the name of the link it was Cwmac not Anyname. If she didn't like what she read on my thread she could have left. How dare she judge what questions I ask. It's my recovery not heres. I specifically said that they didn't need to answer if it made them feel uncomfortable.

If she thought it was so horrible and anti-MB then she could have reported it to the MB monitors. As a matter of fact the MB monitors read pretty much every thread. Didn't see them deleting any of it. Did you?

Start your own thread and stay off mine. Prima donnas.

Toomanylies said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She may have been a little brutal in what she said about WW's here, but you know there was some truth in it. I also don't see why anyone needs to talk about how great sex was with their OM to a BH. The only person you need honesty from is your wife, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A little brutal? She practically called KiwiJ a slut. I asked the question so they responded. They weren't bragging to make me feel worse. Toomanylies, you're right I do need honesty from my wife as I said several times on the post I haven't gotten it for years.

Anyhow said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife does not deserve everything that has happened to her, including inappropriate comments from what appear to be more experienced members of this board. Then ask her not to hijack a thread with her judgmental comments!

'Anyname' is my wife, the most incredible person I have ever met, bar none, and the person to whom I am desperate to stay attached for the rest of my life. I recognize that I can never make up for my betrayal of my best friend, but count myself unbelievably lucky that she is still with me. I love her.

For all of you: You do not know us or our relationship - do not jump to conclusions.

Thanks to her judgmental comments and flame on a thread that she was not invited to read I could care less about you, her or whether you recover your marriage or not.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Go start your own thread. You can talk about whatever you want to. You can tell everyone what a wonderful human being your wife is. You can talk about your plans for the future. Again I don't care. This thread was started by Mrs X bc she didn't want to hijack another thread. It was directed to me. It wasn't a generic call for opinions on a subject. It was a specific call to communmicate with one person.

cwmac

cwmac....I'm sorry for posting on your thread and contributing to the confusion here. I'm not even going to try and explain anything to anytime, or whatever the name is. It's not really worth my time to try to explain something to someone who has already made her judgements here. I do apologize to you for jumping into a conversation here that was to be between you and mrsx.

cwmac, I have reason for saying that their truth may not be your w's truth. I've been there too (I'm no "prima donna")

Early in my M I felt that "eye for an eye" thing that any??? was talking about. I did the revenge A thing! I can say that the OM did make me feel better about myself. My self esteem had taken a huge hit and he built it back up again. I met him (the 1st one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) in a club. He was VERY good looking and I remember thinking that he could have any woman there but he chose ME! For the next few months I met him there as often as I could. Just knowing I would see him later caused me to feel *giddy* all day. We didn't have sex right away, it was about 3 or 4 months later. When we finally did it was a let down. No sparks as far as I was concerned. They say there's no such thing as bad sex, I can tell you there is! He was single and looking for more than I was willing to give. We had sex ONCE, that made me feel terrible (I don't know why since my H was too busy with his stripper "friend" to notice) I ended the relationship the next day.

Then after more A's on my H's part I did it again, this time the guy was ummm *hung* too much for me! No thanks! Another let down but my h was living like a single man so I saw no reason to sit at home and cry over it, I just decided to do the same (not a good plan)

now for a BIG confession, I guess I went a little wild for a while. The ONLY person who has ever been able to bring me to orgasm is my H, HONEST! No one else, male or FEMALE has ever been able to get me there. I know it's a mental thing, but that is my "truth".

before the moderators throw me off this site I have to say that I am a totally different person now, so try to go easy on me.

Lisa103 & KiwiJ,
Please don't take my last post personally. My comments were mot meant for you. You were contributing to the thread that was started by Mrs X and I do appreciate that. I don't think your answers were disrespectful or insensitive. They were direct answers to questions that I asked. It was a thread that was answering my questions.

I'm sorry that MrsAny is taking her rage for the OW and her FWH out on you!!

cwmac

TooManyLies,
Thanks for your post. I appreciate the honesty.

Honesty is something that I believe we are all looking for here at MB(well most of us).

Actually you weren't lumped into the prima donna category. All of your posts have been civil. I may at times disagree with you but as long as you're not judgemental and rude your posts and opinions are always welcome.

cwmac

Cwmac, Sorry to barge into your private party here, but in reality you really should check up on a poster before YOU flame them. Anyname has a quirky sense of humor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and also is the BS not the WS despite her initial post on this thread which was OBVIOUSLY tongue in cheek. She was just trying to prove a point. You would have understood this if you had bothered to read her other posts.

I find it incredible that you as a BS cannot fathom the depth of pain in another BS. We are all in different stages of grief and recovery here. If Anyname as a BS, is emotionally triggered by a WS's well intentioned description of wall-socket, bells and whistles EXTRAMARITAL sex, who are YOU of all people to bash her for it?

Of course it wasn't Lisa or Kiwi's intention to trigger any of the BSs on board, but it happened. If even I, as a FWS can understand why this could be a major BS trigger how come you can't? You called her an A**h*le for her post!?!

A more appropriate response on your part would have been to acknowledge her pain,(you've been there after all, right?) check out where she was coming from by reading her other posts and work from there. What you ended up doing was not helpful to anyone and turned a good thread ugly.

Even Kiwi who is real sweetie is now "creeped out" and why? Because you went off the deep end. Your hostile misinterpreting of her post put a different slant on it. News Flash: Anyname has been betrayed by the man she loves and trusted and this thread triggered her. She posted her feelings, included a little dark humor and got flamed.

Cwmac, there are ways to disagree with and educate other posters without disrespecting them. F*** you as a salutation and name calling is not respectful!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> The moderator edits belong on your posts, not hers.

We have got to cut each other some slack guys! I don't know what the weather is in other parts of the world but there has been so much nasty infighting on the boards lately that maybe it's Spring Fever. I don't know.

I do know that Anyname got a bum rap here and I'm glad her husband posted in her defense. We should (and do!) care about their recovery as much as anyone else's on this board and I for one, have gotten a lot out of her other posts.

Check her out for yourself, Cwmac. You may find it in yourself to apologize for the misplaced hostility. I hope you do. KB

I wasn't going to post anymore on this particular thread but KB thank you for calling me a sweetie. That actually made me cry.

This has all been very upsetting for me. I remember Whiteknight's post and how much that upset everyone, including me.

It's funny but once I started having a go at OM I started feeling so much better. I'd only seen his positive side before and remembering how awful it really was was very cathartic.

I was really trying to help cwmac. If his w said such a negative thing about the OM (the whining) it means she would really rather be with her H who probably makes her feel comfortable and doesn't do embarrassing things during SF.

The "creeping out" was because Anyname called me Jen and I had a horrible, horrible feeling she might know me in the "real" world.

But,she is Australian which is practically next door neighbours to us anyway.

I did get her point a bit - I forget sometimes that we're not on private e-mail but on a world wide public board.

Sorry for any offence - none was meant.

Jenny

Those were nice posts 'knewbetter' and Kiwi regarding 'anyname',,,,,She needed some defending!

I read this post by her and you can see she is also a LOVER but with her husband, bless her heart.....that is the ideal place to be a lover...in marriage!
She gives hope for other BS and WS!

'anynames post':
"My other magic bullet would be sex. I used sex from day 3 to reclaim my H. Is H interested in sex with you? If he shows any interest then you can use it to build intimacy in a way that nothing else can. Trouble is that anti- depressants and sex don't mix. I couldn't take them because they caused sexual dysfunction in me - so if you think you can initiate sex, and use it to build a new relationship with your H, then I would suggest that method over any other.

I found that my H became addicted to the new sex we were experiencing and he was then willing to talk about the A and let me rant and rave and he pretty much came my way 100%. Mostly because he loved the nightly sex that I was providing.

Hey, you aren't sleeping anyway? So why not give yourself the nightly exercise? I'd like to give you more advice, but not the open forum. Remember that men give love for sex and women give sex for love. I believe in that. I think sex might be a solution for you - if yr H is open to it."

anyname...I feel compelled to explain this much to you if you happen to come back to this thread.
There is no boasting here about anything with OM. I have had two sexual relationships in my lifetime, H and OM. I find it very sad that I was able to be so uninhibited with OM but I guess that's because he was. Since my experience is somewhat limited I don't think that you can really say that I've been around enough to know all the "differences".

In my post, I made the comment that I would love to transfer those "passion" to H's relationship but unfortunately right now my H is impotent due to diabetes and has been now for over a year. My A has been over now for about 10 months so if I'm guilty of sounding like I'm bragging, I'm not and I have no intention of doing anything else with OM or any other OM. Yes, the sex may have been good but it wasn't worth the pain that I have caused to My H and to myself.

I'm truly sorry for offending you.

cwmac, Most importantly, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the question. Blessed time actually supplied a very honest, and thought provoking answer, without divesting herself of her personal history. Her perspective on how and why a ws behaves as they do, was also very confronting, and for me personally, it helped me understand a little. (I am still seeking understanding). Most questions can be answered honestly, if diplomacy is used.

KiwiJ, I really respected your attempt to put things right yesterday by editing some of your posts. I respected that you accepted the criticism without hostility.

knewbetter, toomanylies, blessed time thank you for your understanding and support.

Lisa103, I'm very sorry for your situation. Diabetes is horrible. Is it type 2? If so, exercise and weight loss can help him with the impotency problem. You and your husband have shared a very deep hurt. It is a new bond between you. I hope this will eventually lead to sexual intimacy, far beyond the pleasure you got from the OM.

cwmac, In view of the very open confessions here about what the sex was like for WW's, I really can't help thinking that your W's primary motivation in not talking to you about it, is her belief that it will hurt you more than it will help you. I say this because, as I read the posts, I put myself in the postion of the posters, and thought that I would never be able to engage in radical honesty about it - that I'd rather gloss it over, fudge answers, be forgetful and all the other evasive methods used to avoid fessing up. Not because, I didn't want to take responsiblity or lessen what I did, but because I knew how much the informtion would deeply hurt my H. Re read Blessed time's first reply and see if you don't get that from her post.

I am sorry for making you so angry.

anyname

Aw Jeez,

I didn't realize that this thread would turn into a battle-ground...

Sorry to any WS that might be offended by explicit sex-talk of WS w/the OP. I apologize for anything that could have been considered triggering or painful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I suppose that this type of honestly is what is helping cwmac understand the mindset of a female WS a little better so that he can better understand his WW.

I certainly am not *boasting* or *bragging* about the sex I had w/OMM. I was simply answering cwmac's question honestly. Hey, he asked and he wanted to know the truth. However,If you go back to the post that I answered the question you would have also read this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will point out that I really don't miss the sex w/OMM b/c when I think about it now, I feel disgusted with myself for having sex with him. Yes on a physical and emotional level it was terrific, but morally and spiritually I am sickened with myself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not proud of what I have done, and I'm am not trying to rub it into the faces of BS's here on this site. If this thread feels inappropriate or uncomfortable, then by all means, use the back button!

mrsx

Are you people around here completely incapable of talking about sex in an adult and rational and reasonable manner or something? Weird.

Doobie,
Actually I thought we were talking about it in a reasonable manner. The three FWSs were answering questions that I had asked that had started in a thread adressed to CWMAC.

Unfortunately the "thought police" came in and hijacked the thread, flamed the FWSs, insulted me and my questions and acted "holier than thou". It really ticked me off as I'm sure you could tell.

So now these FWSs will in the future be hesitant to answer any questions that a male BS might have as to their thinking and motivations during the affair. They may even be hesitant to come back to the MB sight all together.

Not sure if that answers your question.

cwmac

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>