Well, now I've really messed up.

I have got to be the absolute stupidest, most moronic, self-defeating person posting on the whole www.

I think I have completely blown it. The one thing I could do that would be sure to exterminate my chances of regaining my wife, I have now done. And to make matters worse, I'm going to come clean and expose it myself.

This weekend, my ex-wife was here for a visit with my 13 yr old son. The kids fell asleep while watching a movie and we were up late talking about... of all things, our relationships. You all know about mine. She has met and has been dating a guy that she really likes but is afraid to commit to. As a result, she is openly still seeing other guys.

Well, to make a long story short, we had sex.

There is big history here. Dylan has HUGE issues with my ex. And rightfully so. Not that the ex has ever posed a threat, but we spent many years in court and things got very ugly. The last few years we have become friends, but NOT in an intimate way, just platonically friendly.

There were no emotions involved. It was a 'no-strings attached' kind of thing. Established right from the start. But that isn't going to make a shred of difference to Dylan. In the end it doesn't make a shred of difference anyway.

Some of you have noticed my cryptic, dark comments over the past few days... now you know why.

What was I thinking? I'm sure you want to know.

I wasn't thinking. I didn't think. I had an opportunity to have some selfish needs gratified and I took the easy, stupid way out. I still can't believe it. Dylan crossed my mind for a second and I thought about how she left me over OW and refuses to do N/C or recommit to our marriage and I thought, "aw, f**k it."

If I could only turn back time...

This is a deal breaker.

Not that there was a deal going or anything, but if ever there was a chance... I really believe it is gone now...

I'm such an idiot. No, worse than that, I'm smart. I'm just my own worst enemy and being smart, know how to sabotage myself better than anyone else out there.

I hope that God can forgive me. I hope that I can forgive me. I don't think Dylan will.

dewt

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Oh, follow up...

The next day I was plagued by shame... I told my ex we made a big mistake... talked to her some more about her boyfriend and how she should stop hurting him. I guess I was trying to undo some of the damage I felt I'd caused.

I ended up writing him an email, and since I'm baring all, I might as well post what I wrote.

________________


(R),

It is with the heaviest heart and the deepest shame that I write this email to you. I believe you already know what I'm talking about.

I feel that I owe you the biggest apology and yet, somehow I do not believe I could ever find the words to convey the depth of my regret. I realize that (my ex) has set the parameters of what she is and is not 'allowed' to to and perhaps if that were followed as a guideline to what is permissable, no rules were broken... however, my heart and my consience are telling me differently and I feel that I have wronged you deeply. Rules or no rules.

I feel, and expressed to (my ex), that you two make an awesome couple and that her current stance on monogamy is a rebellion against herself... her true nature. As well, I expressed to you that I believed she was, in a way, testing you. I think both these things are true and urge you not to give up on her. I've known her a fairly long time and like you, accept her for who she is, in all her complexity. Like you, I feel that gives me an insight into her character and I think that she has great affection for you and will reach a point where she will abandon her defenses and allow herself to take the next step, providing you have the patience to see this through. I feel kind of stupid writing this considering my actions on Saturday, but feel the need to say it anyway, because I think that ultimately she could find true happiness with you. That is, in a large part why I feel so bad about what happened.

Also, I regret my actions because they will surely have grave consequences when I tell (Dylan). But that is another issue and not really your concern.

I do not expect you to accept my apologies. You would be fully justified in telling me to f**k right off. Nonetheless, I want you to know that I am truly, truly sorry and (despite my f**k-up) support your relationship with her to the absolute fullest.

It may not make a difference, but still, I want you to know that this was never planned. I care about (my ex) deeply, but have absolutely NO romantic designs on her. If I search my mind for an answer to 'why', I would have to simply say that I was caught in a moment of extreme weakness. That being said, according to the rules I strive to live by, no excuse can justify my actions. I can assure you that it will never happen again. Not only because I am resolved on this issue, but because I intend to ensure that we are never in a position again where it could happen, weakness or no.

Again, I want to assure you that I support you fully. (my ex) will tell you about our conversations together and even if she doesn't, I hope you notice the change. I think you are a good man and deserve the devotion that I know (my ex) is capable of giving. She has been hurt deeply in the past and it makes it very hard for her to surrender herself to the feelings that are growing within her towards you. Please understand this and have patience.

I have a great respect for you, (R) and feel a great sorrow knowing that I have played a part in causing you any pain.

With absolute sincerity,

(dewt)

ps. I'm not sure if I got your email address right. My consience will not allow me to ask for your forgiveness, but I would like confirmation that you have received this. I am forwarding a copy to (my ex) as well.


______________


So anyway, that is what I sent to him and to my ex as well. I plan on telling Dylan tomorrow evening. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


dewt

I don't know if I can beat you with a 2x4. You've been through a lot with Dylan, she isn't willing to commit to you, isn't willing to give up the OW, really is just keeping you in limbo. I know that what you did was wrong. You know that too.

This whole ordeal makes us crazy! It really can cause you to feel as though you are losing your mind. I know I felt that way for months, my mind was not my own, I have no idea who that person was that was walking around in my body for a while. That's no excuse though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am sorry but yes that was probably a deal breaker. It shouldn't be considering the fact that Dylan is still with the OW, and she had sex with her in your home while you were there, and it didn't matter that she knew she was hurting you. None of that will probably change how she will feel about what you did. Not fair, but nothing about this crap is.

Dewt,
Do you think you are a smart guy?

Do you think that if you set a plan of action for you, you could follow it?

I'd just like to see you not be ashamed of your actions.

Can you set your mind on not doing anything YOU personally regret?

This is really separate from your issues with your wife.

You seem very self-defeating at this point...and that is YOUR issue.

Baggage of yours that you may carry from the past, you carry now, heavier and heavier...and it will go with you to your future swinging painfully around you, bruising you and any/all partners you come in contact with.

Now you know that [censored] it, is not a good response on your part, if you find yourself saying that, stop, say goodnight and go home.

Your life does not exist to hurt or repay Dylan or give yourself that moment--which you seem to regret. Your life is for you, to live the life you choose and want for yourself.

When you break what you believe are deal-breakers, that is a choice, one you made.

Most of us screw up. Some of us have partners who either are forgiving or who learn to forgive...if you don't have a forgiving partner, you don't pile more on them to forgive.

Live so you don't regret it.

Dewt, dewt, dewt....

I'm sort of at a loss for an answer. You do sound a bit self-destructive. In response to a comment you made on my post, yep, you should have been reading Jeremiah this weekend, or any book of the Bible... or for that matter, any book at all!

But as I keep reminding myself, what is past is now past. Try as you may, you can't change it or explain your way out of it. Own it and go forward.

As for forgiveness from your wife, I would hate to venture a guess. However, from God, if you are truly sorry and have no intentions of ever letting it happen again, ask for His forgiveness and His help in keeping you strong (and out of trouble), and he will forgive you if.

You obviously have a pretty good idea where your weakness lies. And not only can I not swing a 2x4 at you for this, I don't dare even thump you with a small dowel. Having been a WS myself, and knowing how bad I crave feeling accepted and wanted, I have a pretty good understanding. That's why I am so darned careful now. I know I won't recognize the danger signs until it's too late, so I stay completely away. I'm sitting on the opposite side of the church from the widower.)

But you're right. You have to 'fess up to Dylan. Unfortunately you don't have that 8-year buffer of time like I just had confessing my major mess-up with the pastor to my WH last week.

Try and remain calm. Don't lie. Don't make things up. Don't explain it to death (like I take my own advice on that statement?!). Just give her the facts and explain to her how truly sorry you are.

It's going to hurt a lot more than that hand injury no matter what. But you can't work with it until it's out in the open.

LL

Morning all, I was plagued with nightmares all night and finally gave up going back to sleep. Thank goodness at least the sun is up...

I appreciate the replies and especially that they are somewhat encouraging in that they are progressive rather than just bashing me. Not that I don't deserve a good bashing, cause my actions were just plain stupid, but the fact is I really care about Dylan and our union... I really do...

toomanylies

For me, it's the roller coaster. It's undoing me. I can't seem to go 4 hours without having my whole outlook switched around on me. Things I held with conviction slide and reverse right in front of my eyes.

Maybe, as you say, it shouldn't be a deal breaker... If it had been any other woman, it might not have been... but I get the feeling that all Dylan needs is an excuse to walk away. If that is the case, then I just gave her the big one.

I told my therapist about this. He didn't seem all that concerned. He said that there is love or there is not love. If there is not love then it didn't make a difference. If there is love then she will have to find it in herself to forgive. And if she really does love me, she will. He says if she wants to, he can help. I guess we shall see.

Lor (Lor)

I know you have big things going on right now. As bad as things are for me right now, I can't even imagine sending a loved one off to war... thank you for taking the time to pop in here. I really appreciate it.

Do you think you are a smart guy?

Intelligence, I've got. Wisdom? Ummmmm....

Do you think that if you set a plan of action for you, you could follow it?

My issue seems to be that of coming up with a plan of action that I have faith in. So far, nothing I've done seems to have made a difference. My 'screw-ups' seems largely related to periods when I've really lost faith. I'm hoping my psychologist can help me with this one.

I'd just like to see you not be ashamed of your actions.

I'd like to see me without actions to be ashamed of. To be sure I'm doing a lot of things right, if not for Dylan, at least for my son and I. Despite his difficulty adjusting to this situation, his most recent report card listed his highest grade on the subject of 'healthy lifestyle', which never would have been the case before... there at least, I'm seeing good results from my efforts.

Can you set your mind on not doing anything YOU personally regret?

Here again, I need guidance. I need to find a course before I set myself to it. As for specifically not doing things I know I'm going to regret, well that will be a serious focus of mine for the future. I still need to get off this roller coaster...

This is really separate from your issues with your wife.

You seem very self-defeating at this point...and that is YOUR issue.

Yes this is true. My therapist identified that I have self destructive tendencies. If he hadn't I probably wouldn't be back to see him. It's pretty obvious. Regardless of what happens with Dylan, these are issues I need to address. I'm expecting my psychologist to help me with this.

Baggage of yours that you may carry from the past, you carry now, heavier and heavier...and it will go with you to your future swinging painfully around you, bruising you and any/all partners you come in contact with.

Yes. And it has to stop now. I realize this and it is one of the reasons I'm willing to blow an otherwise very workable budget on counselling. I'm sick of my life being this way.

Now you know that [censored] it, is not a good response on your part, if you find yourself saying that, stop, say goodnight and go home.

I struggled with that. Feeling like I'd blown it, and blown it but good, I was ready to walk away. I will not though. I am worth further effort. My son is worth further effort and Dylan is worth further effort. I will face the music and not accept defeat. Particularily I will not face defeat at the hands of my own dam self.

Your life does not exist to hurt or repay Dylan or give yourself that moment--which you seem to regret. Your life is for you, to live the life you choose and want for yourself.

I do not want to repay Dylan. Not in the way you are saying here... I do want to repay her, but I want to repay her for the times and ways in which she HAS stood by me. I want to repay her by getting better... by growing up, by being the best husband and father ever... This I want to do, not only for her, for my son, and for me too.

When you break what you believe are deal-breakers, that is a choice, one you made.

Absolutely. I remember the instant of the choice with perfect clarity, too. I accept responsibility for it. I even accept responsibility for my state of mind when I made that choice... it would be easy enough to hide behind blame, but it would be wrong and would do nothing to help build the kind of future I want to build, Dylan or no Dylan...

Most of us screw up. Some of us have partners who either are forgiving or who learn to forgive...if you don't have a forgiving partner, you don't pile more on them to forgive.

This is true. I'm sick of screwing up. Looking back, it seems like my life has been one long series of screw ups. And when I screw up, I screw up BIG... this has got to change. I hope and pray that it is not too late... well, it's never to late, but I hope that it is not too late in terms of saving what's left of my marriage...

Live so you don't regret it.

I have a list of regrets. I hope I can make the changes required so that list does not get any longer...

lordslady

This sort of explains my cryptic self-beating, doesn't it...

yep, you should have been reading Jeremiah this weekend, or any book of the Bible... or for that matter, any book at all!

No kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But as I keep reminding myself, what is past is now past. Try as you may, you can't change it or explain your way out of it. Own it and go forward.

There are explanations I have to face in order to go forward. The key is to personally accept those explanations without turning them into excuses.

However, from God, if you are truly sorry and have no intentions of ever letting it happen again, ask for His forgiveness and His help in keeping you strong (and out of trouble), and he will forgive you if.

I've been buried in my Bible and prayer every night before bed. I feel that He will forgive me if I can reach a point where I will stop making the same mistakes... if I can show that not only am I remorseful, but ready and willing to take the steps neccesary to show that I'm growing from the lessons He is teaching me.

You obviously have a pretty good idea where your weakness lies.

And now I have to learn how to overcome those weaknesses...

...and knowing how bad I crave feeling accepted and wanted, I have a pretty good understanding...

But ultimately I need to be accepted and wanted by Dylan... that's what I really need, and have needed for so long... I feel I need to earn that acceptance, and that is going to be very tough, if indeed it is still possible...

That's why I am so darned careful now. I know I won't recognize the danger signs until it's too late, so I stay completely away. I'm sitting on the opposite side of the church from the widower.

Good for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I've gotten pretty good at that too, but this one caught me by surprise. I really never ever expected this... Not only do I not have romantic or sexual feelings for my ex, I don't believe she has them for me either... this was so unexpected and out of the blue....

But you're right. You have to 'fess up to Dylan. Unfortunately you don't have that 8-year buffer of time like I just had confessing my major mess-up with the pastor to my WH last week.

Yeah. I know. I had to take a few days to absorb the horror that this all represents and I was ready to face the music last night, but she had to go to work and I didn't want to send her to work with that to ponder. Tonight I will tell her. I'm already having anxiety about it, but I made my own bed on this one...

Try and remain calm. Don't lie. Don't make things up. Don't explain it to death (like I take my own advice on that statement?!). Just give her the facts and explain to her how truly sorry you are.

I will remain calm. I won't lie. (Never been good at it anyway) I have no explanation to offer her that would make the slightest difference. I will probably just tell her simply and quietly and refer her to this thread if she wants to know more...

But you can't work with it until it's out in the open.

The question is, will she be willing to work on it...

Thanks for your words. I appreciate the support and your presences...

Rushing off to work now...

dewt

Sorry dewt....

but I can't buy what you are selling....

you continually make a mockery of marriage and the commitment that it is....
while giving lip service to wanting to be married...and fix things....

I just don't believe you anymore...

actions regardless of what comes out of our mouth define us...

once again and again and AGAIN...

you position yourself to justify your actions by turning it back on the actions of your wife....

you had you affair before this affair...because you really "believed SHE wasn't coming back"...when you know nothing is official till the inks dry...

you had this recent breach of vows...because "you thought of dylan and how she left you..."
yet how quickly you forget you original consent with dylan and the OP...

Lor is right about you self sabotaging...
whatever attention you gain from it...that's your's to figure out....
but NOTHING out there is worth selling yourself and your exwife..and your current wife.....and your marital vows short of the respect it all deserves....
but that is only the case when one understands the gravity of those vows and the bigger picture ....

I'm sorry dewt...that you continually choose this route....

no counselor, no pschycologist can fix this ..
until you yourself decide that it has a greater meaning and act accordingly....

I don't buy the victim-status...

You both have enough ammunition to powerstruggle this insanity and chaos for years to come....
if she moves in now...there will never be a boring moment with so much blame and finger pointing going on and on and on and on....

you keep handing eachother a loaded weapon and saying go ahead take a shot....

I believe that regardless of our spouses actions...and especially at the hour of such gross disrepect and pain...that it is a moment of defining ourselves....usually thrust upon us...in your case not so thrusted...in which we stand up for what we believe in the face of the opposite...

Is it cruel for me to say this to you....
well maybe...but in relevence to this site being about REBUILDING and FIXING marriages...it is not so much a judgement...but a fact...that your actions do anything but fix things....

and I am not convinced that you really understand that......

because all it took was thinking about what she did...and it explains everything....

I guess I expected you to be further along in this game...to really understand the pain of own actions on others...regardless of theirs....
but I guess I was wrong....

ARK

Dewt,
again, I support ARK in this one. Maybe, after all these years Dylan too has been feeling like "I don't believe you anymore". Maybe she is seeing your self-destructive patterns and is considering whether or not she wants that in her life. Maybe she is as tired of the struggle as you are. Maybe she is tired of your "victim" mantality. What safe haven have you provided for her in your said plan A? What are you doing here, if you are not ready to make the commitment to repair the damage YOU have caused?
If poeple here who have no personal investment in your affairs are frustrated and ready to give up on helping a person who cannot help themselves (YOU), I can only imagine, what it has been like for Dylan. I'm not excusing her actions, but I can certainly understand better and empathize with her.

Peace,
Odyssey

I am going to ask a large favor of you, Dewt...

please do not call tonight...

do not take that with your usual fatalist mentality...

I really thought those 2 good talks we had this week helped put a more positive spin...

I see they did not.

I work tonight, and yes, it will take the 6 hours to (insert calming word of choice) so that I can function.

it is sooooooo hypocritical of me, I am so very aware...

I have to go now.

Dylan

p.s.

you've mentioned here many times that our son never sleeps thru the night in his own bed...

one question....

did he "discover"you two?

did the kids wake up to you two "cuddled up" in bed?

Sorry Dewt,you usually have my sympathy but I'm with Ark and Odyessy on this one. To put it in a nutshell, you managed to screw over both wife 1 and wife 2 and the BF in one fell swoop. What was that REALLY all about?

Having sex with someone you have no romantic or sexual feelings for is AWFUL, and considering that she was a WW in your marriage, really puts her in her place doesn't it? Two T*ts, a H*le and a heartbeat. Bet she feels great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

To have sex with wife number one, ESPECIALLY when you KNOW wayward current wife has strong feelings against her, also manages to put WW2 in her place. A real screw you Dylan, NOW look what you made me do!

The email you sent to the BF sounded something like an defense attorney letter. It really bothered me for some reason. Sorry BF, I screwed your GF, she's a great gal (with issues),I don't have any romantic feelings for her (I used her), I support you both as a couple (could you please keep her anyway) blah, blah, blah. I don't know. What exactly is bothering me about this????? I can't put my finger on it for some reason. Has he responded?

If I were writing a book, this would be a major plot twist. The truth really can be stranger than fiction, don't you think? My question would be what would be the main character's (you, Dewt) MOTIVATION in all this? That's my real question to you.

What's done is done, I suppose and you'd better hang on because it will be a very bumpy ride for you and Dylan. Hopefully, it's just another setback but not THE dealbreaker. We'll be thinking of you and Dylan both tonight, Dewt.

I read this last night and didn't want to post my first reaction... so I have dwelled and dwelled and dwelled... and this is what I have come up with.

"When you know better, you do better." It goes hand-in-hand with "Do or Do not, there is no try."

We always have a choice. We don't always make good choices. Sometimes we suffer the consequences, and sometimes we are shown grace and mercy.

You can't change what you DID, but you have total power over your future choices. Choose. Don't let life happen. Pick up the reins and be responsible, not regretful.

Cali

It shouldn't be considering the fact that Dylan is still with the Other Woman , and she had sex with her in your home while you were there, and it didn't matter that she knew she was hurting you!

Ummm, doesn't that mean that Dylan is a lesbian?
If so, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever of you and she making a good marriage!

Or am I missing something here?
Sincerely, Julie
P.S. I see Dylan is reading your thread so you won't have to worry about telling her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Dewt,

In a former post you wrote to blessed time "2x4? If you don'y have the personal integrity to deal with this the way you know you should, what 2x4 is going to help?... You should be ashamed of yourself." Well Do you remember a line in the bible that goes something like this... "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"? Where is YOUR personal integrity? YOU know what YOU have to do... so what the H**L,s your problem... why do you stray?

Odyssey

I'm floored, Dewt. I think you need to forget about the marriage right now and just work on your OWN personal issues. Because whether the marriage ever turns around or not, you've got to continue to live your life. You and your wife have serious issues and instead of moving in together or continually putting bandaids over the problem in order to 'do what's best' for your children. The best thing the two of you could do for your children would be to fix yourselves.

"The one thing I could do that would be sure to exterminate my chances of regaining my wife, I have now done. And to make matters worse, I'm going to come clean and expose it myself. "

I've been thinking about this .... and this was no accident.

This was an "on purpose".

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well, you fixed yourself into a doozy of a corner .... just like you wanted.

Now your "get out of the marriage" desire is no longer a big old secret...

You want out, but you want to get out without appearing to choose the door yourself ....

You prefer to appear to have been thrown out.

Nice try.

Where is your integrity?

Pep

Well, I got all your messages loud and clear.

I will reply later. For now I have still have duties to tend to.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond, regardless of the tone and content.

dewt

Taking a break from duties...

This is tearing me up inside.

You can all put away your 2x4's now. Beating me isn't going to make me feel any worse than I already feel. Pointing out what a jerk I am isn't going to make that fact any clearer.

I guess I'm asking for support, and good advice and ideas of what to do to try and recover from this stupid mistake.

'cause no. I don't want my marriage to end.

dewt

I guess I'm asking for support, and good advice and ideas of what to do to try and recover from this stupid mistake.

Sorry Dew, fresh out of "recovery" ideas for you.

'cause no. I don't want my marriage to end.

Actions speak otherwise.

You jumped off a cliff completely sober knowing it was a 100 foot drop...

...now you say you didn't want to break your legs ...

Just hard to believe...

I guess here's my words of advice and support...

Don't jump off cliffs.


Pep
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Dewt

As a person in almost the same sitch as you I really feel like getting a field of 2x4's and unleashing on your a**!!!!

WTF were you thinking????

However, I am not going to chastise you.
You have to live with your decisions.

I only hope and pray that you never hear these words from your W. "You should have thought about that before you had sex with her"

You need some heavy heavy prayer right now and when you go to sleep tonight have a serious talk to God and ask him to speak to your wife.