Good Morning Dewt,
After having read PL's post, may I suggest that you begin to deal with your sexual issues as well in your therapy sessions? It looks like there is BIG work to do in that area.

Peace,
Odyssey

Nicole, thank you for dropping in. I really appreciate you taking the time to post. Am I without inconsistencies? Heck no... we have already established that largely I am my own worst enemy... but you got a lot of things wrong in your post. It's going to drive me crazy thinking about this all day... I will surely reply tonight...

dewt

Dewt, one last suggestion - quit posting comments to every poster that writes to you!!! You have bigger issues to deal with - stop avoiding them! The posters that need background information can go read old posts - and the rest of us are just trying to get through to you. Your comments are just drawn out justifications and empty promises anyway - start changing your ACTIONS. I want to read a post that tells us what you have actually DONE today to change your life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The one thing I could do that would be sure to exterminate my chances of regaining my wife, I have now done."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The "one thing" .... this is so very important for you ...

If you treat this like a math equation .... reduce it to the simplest form...

and then apply the simplest form to other situations .... you can see your purpose in choosing the "one thing".

If you were applying for a job, and you decided ,going in, to do the "one thing" you knew would exterminate your chances of getting said job .... could you really say you wanted the job?

Take your quoted statement at the beginning of this post, and apply it to different circumstances and see how it alligns with your life.

People who choose the "one thing" they know will blow their relationship apart ... do NOT seek intimacy.

Their motive is to avoid intimacy at all costs. Including their own integrity .... it doesn't matter.

Intimacy is poison. So, in order not to be poisoned .... one must do the vile "one thing" .... knowing that this "one thing"will save him from the trap and pain of intimacy.

My opinion... my observation ... my experience with an adopted child with major issues concerning attachment disorder.

Watch "Good Will Hunting" .... pay attention to the final therapy scene ... where Robin Williams confronts attachment disorder.

Pep

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hi dewt,

You know, there were times that I wished I was the wayward instead of the betrayed. There were times I considered a "revenge affair" not to get revenge, but to change my position into what I thought was the much better deal.

Let's talk Plan A--the FIRST thing a BS is advised by MB is to start Plan A immediately. No where in Plan A does it say to wait for the WS to make a decision or commitment--in fact, it says the opposite. Plan A is not a game, is not a trick to fool the WS--Plan A is for the BS to be the best he/she can be for the rest of life, whether or not the marriage survives.

Let's talk Recovery--isn't part of recovery for the FWS to understand the depth of the injury and pain caused to the FBS and to do their part in helping heal that? I suspect you skipped this part in your 'recovery' from your 3-month affair a long time ago. In fact, I HOPE that's what your problem is--otherwise, I can't begin to understand why you would do that to dylan again (twice now) and I can't begin to understand why the REALITY of living as a BS seems to come as just as much of a shock to you NOW as it does to those of us dealing with it for the first time. If you didn't 'get it' on dylan's behalf then, you have a wonderful opportunity to 'get it' now--but that is from the position of BS not WS. No matter how many different women you boink now, that fact will not change.

dewt, the "harsher" posts of your thread are basically what are written to new BSs when they are being advised how to do Plan A. These same kinds of posts are written to BSs who are trying to learn how to Plan A but are having difficulty applying the concepts. It is questionable if you actually did a real Plan A before this--it is even more questionable if you are willing to learn and do a real Plan A now. It is my opinion that is the first question you need to answer to yourself. I can tell you from my own early experience, I couldn't be successful at any plan until I was honest with myself about what I wanted and what I was truly willing to do to get it--and that meant learning and applying the MB concepts and principles ESPECIALLY when to do otherwise would be a lot less difficult and would be self-serving in negative ways instead of positive ways.

dewt, what do you want to do with this opportunity to really learn and understand what a BS experiences when dealing with and recovering from an affair? It is your choice to make for yourself, it has nothing to do with choices dylan may or may not make for herself--and for me, that was the hardest thing to understand and accept.

Take care dewt, there are no quick fixes so take care along the way, ok?

Patient Love,

I'm glad to see you are here. On the other hand, I've got to respond to what you have posted, because the spin you have put on this has got me scratching my head...

It's all fine and dandy to tell me she needed to have a grown up for a husband... but what exactly does that mean? Step up to the plate and be a husband? I quit playing games during the evenings, I gave her my time. I held down the jobs... In fact, the job that I was working at before Mini and I left was 50 hours per week, plus two hours travelling time each day. I'd say that qualifies as sacrificing myself... I was up at 5:45 each day and never late...

Yes there were several things I could have done during the winter months... and guess what, I did. Last winter, after being laid off I found my own framing contract, and when that was over I had unemployment which I earned by doing things the 'right way' (forgeting about my own business and getting a 'real job'), as Dylan had expressed she wanted me to. Before that ran out, I found work again. According to our arrangement, I was to earn the money and (because I was working very long hours) she was to disburse it. So the bills did not get paid and we went without hot water all summer. I think a 50 hour work week is a decent number of hours. Should I have put in more???

This statement is outrageous...

You were trying and hinting at 3 somes and spicing up your's and Dylan's sex life long before the OW came into the picture. My belief is that you saw the opportunity when you could see that the OW and Dylan were establishing a good and deep friendship and tried to play off of that and then when it backfired your world turned upside down and you didn't know what to do and so took mini and ran, leaving Dylan with a debtload that you helped create, in a house filled with your stuff.

Yes, the year before I encouraged her to have a fling with a male friend of ours. Yes it was supposed to be a 3some. And maybe that is twisted. I sure don't have the same views on it now that I did then. BUT I learned my lesson after that one. I did not encourage this affair with OW. I did not, at first, say no, that is true, but I've checked my journal, and from very early on, I knew that I would not ever be a part of it.

"A good and lasting friendship" ... you have to be kidding. I was going to bed alone just about every night. I was waking up alone with increasing frequency... I was seeing my wife acting towards OW in all the ways I wanted her to act towards me. A good and lasting friendship indeed. They were having sex down the hall while I was having panic attacks. When I tried to be a friend to OW about certain issues, Dylan told me to back off. When I expressed my hurt and discomfort with the situation, I was told I was over reacting... A good and lasting friendship... why are you speaking FOG talk?

And what do you mean about trying to 'play off' it. I was having daily panic attacks... when, in the mornings I wanted to go and sit with my wife, who had not come to bed at all that night, I was told I was 'being intrusive'. So I tried to bury my pain and back-off.

That is what back-fired.

She still maintains that if I'd just kept my distance and let this happen that it would have cooled down and everything would have been ok.

I made my decision to leave after asking Dylan to stop and she said "she didn't think she even could, or would." I made my decision to leave after she told me she wasn't willing to focus on fixing what was wrong in our marriage.

And the original plan was for her to leave, and get her own place. And after realizing that would leave me with a 50 hour work week, and 10 hours travelling, and no support system or aftershool daycare... I knew it was unworkable... and THAT IS WHY I LEFT... It was that or keep living in that situation. Did she tell you about my panic attacks that were so bad I had my head in the toilet because it was the safest place I could think of? Was I supposed to stay in that situation???

And as for the debtload... I guess she never told you about the debts I did pay. I guess she never mentioned the child tax checks that she kept to pay her rent. Nor the times I helped her financially... nor the arrangement that we had regarding the sale of said household contents for use in paying down our mutual debt...

As for me not being in Plan A, I'd love for you to explain that to me. Because, honestly, I've tried my best not to explode in anger over being treated the way I've been treated, nor make disrespectful judgements that Dylan would choose a 'deep and lasting friendship' with a trailer trash drug dealer over her son and husband, nor make selfish demands that she get her freaking head together and her priorities straight and come HOME to her FAMILY and finally, once and for all DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE to make this family and this marriage and this life WORK!!! You tell me how I have failed and I will listen! Because I'm cracking at the seams here, I'm confused and hurt and scared... and I'm getting lots of posts reminding me what a jerk I am, but very little in terms of advice on what to actually do...

Oh, and for the record. I've been to the bar twice in the past 4 months. Once with a male friend, for about an hour and a half. Once with Mary while Ethan was visiting mom. The internet thing.... Ya... That was a dumb idea... I was grasping at straws... stupidly, and I realise that now.

The purpose of this post was to be honest. The purpose of this post was to expose myself and explore the idiocy of my actions so that I, with the help of others could pick it apart and get to the bottom of my ridiculous behaviour. So that I could understand it and understand myself and hopefully grow.

And it looks like my ex is going to get her wish. And I understand that Dylan has issues with her. And I've done what I've done and cannot undo it. No amount of shame will change what has happened. Not matter how many times I admit it was extremely stupid and foul and idiotic, I cannot go back and change it. But you know what? I can face it and will face the consequences. And I can even look back and admit that it is highly probable that there were ulteriour motives in my ex-wife's advances and that despite that, it was my choice to proceed. If Dylan was looking for an excuse to continue on with OW, or with the direction she has been going for the past 6 months, now her actions are completely justifiable... and I have only myself to blame. The ex wins. Dylan wins. Mini and I lose. And I get to carry the blame. 'Cause I own it.

OW moved out because even she couldn't take my anxiety. Maybe there's a shred of a conscience there after all, but it still hasn't stopped her from being a regular part of Dylan's life since. I'm sure she's there for Dylan even now, in her desperate time of need and pain.

Yes, Dylan originally had my consent, if not my enthusiastic agreement. But it's one thing to give your partner a reluctant ok to 'conduct and experiment' (her words) and another altogether to watch her fall in love with someone who lives in the same house. And yes, I agree that there was a lot more to it than that. If it were just an experiment, she would have stopped the moment she saw I was uncomfortable with it. She would have stopped or asked some serious questions about her motives when she saw it was killing me. She would have stopped when I asked her too, and not told me I was 'over reacting'.

And yes. "finding herself" were her words. Not in relation to OW, but in relation to the separation, and why she was not joining us when she originally said she would. This is documented in my journal and I can give you direct quotes and dates of our conversations if you like.

And yes, Dylan has expressed that we both need to get our crap together and fix ourselves before we totally screw our son up. And I totally agree. And yes, I've made some serious errors along the way. BUT, I've also made some headway. And for all the statements like the one above that Dylan has made, what has she actually done? Back in March, she posted that all this "has to stop". And she posted that she loved me. And has it stopped? Has there been no contact? Have there been any commitments from her? Has she offered me any plan for recovery? Even in regards to her decision to move here she would give me no dates or even a rough schedule...

Do you have any idea how many times she's given me hope then left me to stew in my dissappointment, unable to even ask about it for fear of making a 'selfish demand' for information?

I know you care about us... I know you do... I am very deeply hurt by your post... but moreso because I feel that it was an attack based on incorrect information.

I will never, NEVER be whole without Dylan as my wife. If she never comes back, I will move on. I will grow from this, and heal to a certain extent... and maybe even remarry and build a new family... but without her I will never be whole, because she is part of me. And despite my imperfection, and my screw ups and my idiotic mistakes, I love her so totally and completely... If it were anybody else, this whole thing would soooo be in my past, and I would not, 6 months into this betrayal, still be forgiving and loving and so desperate for a chance at recovery...

As for honesty, I'm being as honest as I can. I'm seeking therapy to dig deeper and find if there are hidden things I can be honest about and face... I very seriously considered not telling anyone, anyone, about my screw-up last weekend, but above all I want to be honest and face my failings so that I can 'own' them and face them and grow from them... and that is the truth.

I'm sorry if this post comes across as reactive or snippy or nasty... I'm hurt by these accusations and hoped that if you were to post, it would be to give me an idea of what I could actually DO to win her back. Obviously this has become more of a challenge in the past week, and we cannot turn back time...

This sucks.

dewt

I will take some advice and stop trying to reply to every post. The reason I've always tried to do this is two-fold.

On one hand, I appreciate the time and energy each and every one of you takes and gives to me, and out of respect for your thoughts I like to acknowledge them.

On the other hand, one of the reasons I'm here in the first place is to get as much input as possible into a situation and by replying point by point, I explore each of these issues and perspectives within myself.

That being said, it is way too much for me to keep up with. I would like to reassure you all though, that I read each post at least twice, and some more than that. I appreciate you coming in and following my story and posting. Thank you all.

dewt

Dewt,

I feel your pain, your confusion, your sense of abandonment. I know that you cannot athon a life without Dylan but should this ever come to pass, you WILL become whole, maybe even for the first time in your life.
Dylan has not posted here, I'm not sure what your convos have been like or even if there have been any convos. Live your life as if alone for now... in your mind, make a clean break for now, don't hang on what is not there, which seems to be nothing. Learn to be still, to be alone, work on yourself as you already doing, and if it is clear in your mind & heart that your marriage is what you want, then wait for it until you no longer can, don't give into any carnal temptations. May I suggest that you place a clear time limit (in your head, or post it here) that you would be willing to wait for Dylan to come around, and if she does not by that time, move on, make a new plan for yourself. To suffer like this forever... you will grow to resent yourself and Dylan even more than you do now. Making a clear decision to move on, may also be one form to preserve love banks... not in the context of marriagfe, but in the context of a new , transformed relationship with Dylan.

Peace... God comfort you Dewt.

Odyssey

I, for one, would just like to see you spend what time and energy you have left (which I know isn't much right now) on figuring out solutions, rather than answering every post. We know you're reading - and we know you're trying - or we wouldn't bother posting.

So what ARE your thoughts as to what to do next? Is your focus still on Dylan, or are you thinking about what led you to make that bad choice again in the first place? Do you have any thoughts on how to soothe your pain in a productive way? Self soothing is a VERY important thing to learn.

Hey Dewt, I'll be lucky if this computer doesn't fall apart before I'm done so I quickly want to say: I've always read your posts with sort of a cocked head and a little Ohhhh.. coming out of my mouth. I mean that in a nice way. I've felt "motherly" towards you I guess.

You sort of remind me of my 14 year old son, so many missteps, but always scrambling to do right, WANTING to do right and then falling flat on his face. He's a GREAT kid so this is not the insult it sounds like but you know when you're 14, life is full of DRAMA. Kind of like yours, you know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've always been struck by your longing for Dylan and your underlying desire to do right but never quite getting there. Maybe this really is rock bottom for you, Dewt.Maybe it's supposed to be. Maybe it's time. No more Drama. Just life.

I've been thinking so much about both you guys for two days. Please hang in there. Take Kat's suggestion to Plan A yourself (Can't remember what board that thread is on) this weekend. Good idea don't you think? No need to reply to this, just try to have a good weekend with Mini, okay? (You too, Dylan!) KB

Food for thought...

Plan A yourself to death for you and if you find yourself doing a clear plan b, continue to plan A yourself through that too... for you!

Peace,
Odyssey

At this point, I feel like a life with or without Dylan is out of my hands. I realize I've felt this for some time. Despite the efforts I've made, I've seen no real actual change and it's been 4 months since I left, 6 since her affair really began.

I have a hard time accepting that there is nothing there... nothing to hold on too... but... oh, I don't know... I will shelf that thought until I'm ready to deal with it. For now, I do have lots on my plate. Tomorrow my son and I are going on a hike up the mountain. Why? Because it is there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A previous poster (see, I'm not quoting or making direct reference) asked about the things I'm doing and this is one of them. Mini and I have grown really close through this and our time together has been really special. My older son wanted to come with his mom again this weekend, but I said I wanted a weekend alone with my boys... he is still too nervous about taking the bus alone and has opted out of a weekend visit with us. Too bad. I'm actually saving the $$ to get my van fixed and in a few weeks if he still does not want to bus it, I'll go get him.

I did have a time limit. I did not post it because I know Dylan reads here and we are not supposed to tell the WS about our time limits. It was going to be the end of this month, but considering the circumstances, I've scratched that plan. I will wait for my own emotional dust to settle to decide what to do. I know that I don't have the fortitude to wait forever. Despite my failings, I still love her and honestly do want this to work.

At this point, I feel like a life with or without Dylan is out of my hands. I realize I've felt this for some time. Despite the efforts I've made, I've seen no real actual change and it's been 4 months since I left, 6 since her affair really began.

I have a hard time accepting that there is nothing there... nothing to hold on too... but... oh, I don't know... I will shelf that thought until I'm ready to deal with it. For now, I do have lots on my plate. Tomorrow my son and I are going on a hike up the mountain. Why? Because it is there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A previous poster (see, I'm not quoting or making direct reference) asked about the things I'm doing and this is one of them. Mini and I have grown really close through this and our time together has been really special. My older son wanted to come with his mom again this weekend, but I said I wanted a weekend alone with my boys... he is still too nervous about taking the bus alone and has opted out of a weekend visit with us. Too bad. I'm actually saving the $$ to get my van fixed and in a few weeks if he still does not want to bus it, I'll go get him.

I did have a time limit. I did not post it because I know Dylan reads here and we are not supposed to tell the WS about our time limits. It was going to be the end of this month, but considering the circumstances, I've scratched that plan. I will wait for my own emotional dust to settle to decide what to do. I know that I don't have the fortitude to wait forever. Despite my failings, I still love her and honestly do want this to work.

As far as preventing resentment from building up... I dunno. I'm angered somewhat that she is reacting so strongly about this considering what she has put me through. I selfishly believe that she could be a little more understanding. But that is a selfish thought and I don't dwell on it overmuch.

I have worked very hard to accept, within myself, Dylan's actions and the reasons (as far as I can guess) for her behaviour. I still have issues, but battling hate for her is not one of them. This is another instance where "time will tell". I'm not putting pressure on myself to identify and deal with every possible outcome. Not yet.

Patience is a lesson I'm trying to learn. To be sure I've fallen off that horse from time to time too, but I'm still not ready to give up on myself.

As for a new and transformed relationship with Dylan, well she will be the architect of such a relationship. I'm still waiting to see what she does... and when... I have judgemental moments to be sure, but I also realize I'm way to messed up a person to be handing out sentences... I've made too many mistakes over the course of my life to condemn another for theirs... On the other hand, I walked out of my last marriage because there was serious abuse there. Dylan cannot claim the same and yet she... I'm stopping there.

I don't know what I'm going to do next. Take my son on a big explore, save for a canoe... try to be the best at work that I can and show myself to be reliable and competent to my boss... Pay my bills on time, fix my van and level some debt. Start planning the house I want to start building...

As for Dylan, I don't know what to do. I understand I've hurt her, and will not demand that she show the same forgiveness or patience that I've shown for her. That's her choice and I very clearly have little to no influence over her thinking. I will keep going to counselling, keep my parts in my pants and see what happens, I guess. I will develop my plan in time, and stick to it. I will endeavor not to lose focus.

She is the woman who has defined woman as far as I'm concerned. She is the love of my life and despite what others have said, I know I will never be whole without her. I went almost a decade without her once and that time did nothing to abate my feelings for her. I see no reason why another ten would. Still, that does not mean I will not move on if I have no hope of bringing her home. A life of loneliness has no allure for me.


Yes my focus is still on Dylan. Every time I look at my son and see how this is affecting him, I can't help but think of her. Every night I go to bed alone and miss her presence. That is not to say that I'm not thinking about what I've done and why, and what caused this whole disaster to unfold in the first place... I think about it all the time... There are ways in which I need to improve, whether she comes back or not, and I'm also focussing on them. I may never be 'whole' but it doesn't mean I'm willing to spend my life wallowing in [censored].

Self soothing. Hmmmm. The only thing that really helps soothe me is reading my Bible. And hanging with Mini.

Oh, and I played the lotto tonight. 2 million bucks would sure help soothe me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

dewt

I will try to plan A myself. (**** -eyed grin)

No angry outbursts...
No disrespectful judgements...
No selfish demands...

I'm afraid of the consequences of my actions, but I know I set that ball in motion and I will face them with a straight back.

I feel horrible about my choices, but accept that I'm human and prone to falling flat on my face.

Yes, I've hit rock bottom, and no I don't like the view from here, so yes I will be changing that.

I love myself. I don't always like myself, that's true, but I know my inner heart and it is a good one. I can forgive myself for my past transgressions as long as I know I learn from my experiences and grow... I face them and do not run. I look for reasons for my behaviour, but do not use them to excuse or justify my choices...

What more could a guy ask of himself.

dewt

Hey Dewt,

So you mentioned the things you will do/ not do in plan A, but who will you be? Maybe focus on your long-term goals and the person you wish to be. With or without Dylan, When one day you find yourself as a healed and whole person, who would you like to be. What will define you as a person?
What will you offer of yourself to the world around you?

Peace,
Odyssey

I'll be back in an hour or so to answer this one.

But I think a new thread is in order...

dewt

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, now I've really messed up.

I think I have completely blown it. The one thing I could do that would be sure to exterminate my chances of regaining my wife...And to make matters worse, I'm going to come clean and expose it myself. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the internet…almost a week later…..thanks…I appreciate that…telling me before posting, out of , oh, I don’t know…would just have perhaps, been a little….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This weekend, my ex-wife ....Well, to make a long story short, we had sex. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We discussed this together !!...on the phone while they were on their way up on the bus…we even brought up the fact that she might try…blah, blah,…..
you already had the subject on your brain…Dewt,..


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is big history here. Not that the ex has ever posed a threat, but we spent many years in court and things got very ugly. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has never posed a threat????!?!?!!??…whaaat?!?!?…oh, what kind of threat?….because she has posed a physical, psychological, verbal and life-threatening threat, the way I recall the last 8 years…..am I the only one who remembers sleeping in chairs holding crowbars? Her threats to burn our home with occupants inside?!?!…the woman you equated having sex with as “being with an animal” ?…how can you possibly make this statement after EVERYTHING and then having relationship talks alone with an ex spouse in your bedroom…......GAAHHH……I know, I know, you’re not perfect, you made a mistake, but for the love of God, man…..Again, the thought now, as 4 years ago…you’re willing to throw away what you want and strive for, for no emotions….you’re right, the fact that no emotions are involved cheapens it all the more….and that fact won’t make a difference…in that, you know me well….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't thinking. I didn't think. I had an opportunity to have some selfish needs gratified ... Dylan crossed my mind for a second ...and I thought, "aw, f**k it." </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spending the weekend with your children is the time to gratify your needs and get LAID ?!?!…I crossed your mind for a second, but none of the horrible, unbelievable things she has done with INTENT, over the past 13 years, none of that managed to cross your mind as you prepared to have sex with her……after making plans for you to visit this weekend, so we could get things moving…you knew I was coming….we had just discussed this…you had 0 reason to be dejected enough to do this, Dewt…OMG….so she knew I was moving there, knew I’d be back soon…is this a scenario?……and ……WTF ?!?!?!?!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a deal breaker.

Not that there was a deal going or anything, but if ever there was a chance... I really believe it is gone now... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Silly me….I was under the assumption that during my last visit there, we had indeed established some sort of deal….in the bathroom…during one of our mnay talks, we understood celebacy was the way for both of us, we saw and rented a 3 bedroom apartment, I asked you to come here, you needed to make a final “keep” pile of stuff, mini finished school at the end of June…Frosty’s might be hiring, you’re telling me about job opportunities in the neighborhood…..WHERE THE HELL IS THERE NOT A DEAL??….not that “deal” is the best word…perhaps assumptions….stupid assumptions on my part that you actually meant the things you said during those talks….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm such an idiot. No, worse than that, I'm smart. I'm just my own worst enemy and being smart, know how to sabotage myself better than anyone else out there. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you keep doing it, you keep hanging your head in shame, but then you keep the pattern and the cycle going….and it is exhausting to live with….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, now I've really messed up.

I think I have completely blown it. The one thing I could do that would be sure to exterminate my chances of regaining my wife...And to make matters worse, I'm going to come clean and expose it myself. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the internet…almost a week later…..thanks…I appreciate that…telling me before posting, out of , oh, I don’t know…would just have perhaps, been a little….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This weekend, my ex-wife ....Well, to make a long story short, we had sex. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We discussed this together !!...on the phone while they were on their way up on the bus…we even brought up the fact that she might try…blah, blah,…..
you already had the subject on your brain…Dewt,..


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is big history here. Not that the ex has ever posed a threat, but we spent many years in court and things got very ugly. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has never posed a threat????!?!?!!??…whaaat?!?!?…oh, what kind of threat?….because she has posed a physical, psychological, verbal and life-threatening threat, the way I recall the last 8 years…..am I the only one who remembers sleeping in chairs holding crowbars? Her threats to burn our home with occupants inside?!?!…the woman you equated having sex with as “being with an animal” ?…how can you possibly make this statement after EVERYTHING and then having relationship talks alone with an ex spouse in your bedroom…......GAAHHH……I know, I know, you’re not perfect, you made a mistake, but for the love of God, man…..Again, the thought now, as 4 years ago…you’re willing to throw away what you want and strive for, for no emotions….you’re right, the fact that no emotions are involved cheapens it all the more….and that fact won’t make a difference…in that, you know me well….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't thinking. I didn't think. I had an opportunity to have some selfish needs gratified ... Dylan crossed my mind for a second ...and I thought, "aw, f**k it." </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spending the weekend with your children is the time to gratify your needs and get LAID ?!?!…I crossed your mind for a second, but none of the horrible, unbelievable things she has done with INTENT, over the past 13 years, none of that managed to cross your mind as you prepared to have sex with her……after making plans for you to visit this weekend, so we could get things moving…you knew I was coming….we had just discussed this…you had 0 reason to be dejected enough to do this, Dewt…OMG….so she knew I was moving there, knew I’d be back soon…is this a scenario?……and ……WTF ?!?!?!?!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a deal breaker.

Not that there was a deal going or anything, but if ever there was a chance... I really believe it is gone now... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Silly me….I was under the assumption that during my last visit there, we had indeed established some sort of deal….in the bathroom…during one of our mnay talks, we understood celibacy was the way for both of us, we saw and rented a 3 bedroom apartment!!!, I asked you to come here, you needed to make a final “keep” pile of stuff, mini finished school at the end of June…Frosty’s might be hiring, you’re telling me about job opportunities in the neighborhood…you may have not had anything definite, but by god you had the gist...I was coming home and you knew it...I asked for room measurements, made arrangements for stove transfer.....WHERE THE HELL IS THERE NOT A DEAL??….not that “deal” is the best word…perhaps assumptions….stupid assumptions on my part that you actually meant the things you said during those talks…...and would not have renegged on them a week later...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm such an idiot. No, worse than that, I'm smart. I'm just my own worst enemy and being smart, know how to sabotage myself better than anyone else out there. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you keep doing it, you keep hanging your head in shame, but then you keep the pattern and the cycle going….and it is exhausting to live with…...

I no longer have ANY idea what to do with this mess and chaos...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your life does not exist to hurt or repay Dylan or give yourself that moment--which you seem to regret. Your life is for you, to live the life you choose and want for yourself.

I do not want to repay Dylan. Not in the way you are saying here... I do want to repay her, but I want to repay her for the times and ways in which she HAS stood by me. I want to repay her by getting better... by growing up, by being the best husband and father ever... This I want to do, not only for her, for my son, and for me too. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you did….and yes, in that way…YES, Dewt, yes you did want to repay me, otherwise you could have had needs met elsewhere…there was NO NEED for you to go there… but one…..to INFLICT AS MUCH PAIN, SUFFERING AND TORMENT as you felt I have put you through…..this is payback, this is punishment, and if you can’t use your radical honesty to see that, then moving forward is going to be harder for you

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sick of screwing up. Looking back, it seems like my life has been one long series of screw ups. And when I screw up, I screw up BIG... but I hope that it is not too late in terms of saving what's left of my marriage... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most of “saving what’s left of your marriage” went shooting out your d%# Saturday night, so I hope you at least physically enjoyed it enough to make the smidgeon that’s left worthwhile…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been buried in my Bible and prayer every night before bed. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously not EVERY night…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You obviously have a pretty good idea where your weakness lies.

And now I have to learn how to overcome those weaknesses... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get a combination ego-stroker/chastity belt…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and knowing how bad I crave feeling accepted and wanted, I have a pretty good understanding...

But ultimately I need to be accepted and wanted by Dylan... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">having sex with the ANTICHRIST is NOT the way to get those emotional needs across…


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">too, but this one caught me by surprise. I really never ever expected this... Not only do I not have romantic or sexual feelings for my ex, I don't believe she has them for me either... this was so unexpected and out of the blue.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">right…unexpected….out of the blue…just hours after discussing this very threat on the phone…. Give me a break!!!


Gaaaaaahhh....


well, where we are is where we are, so,...we need some tools, we need something....I need to calm down....I really....

{{{{{{{Dewt}}}}}


this umm...well...I'll go give some thought to....why this, dewt...anything but..

Ark is right...I've got to find my focus.

Dylan,

You posted many things and I suppose they were done here as opposed to just talking with dewt. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you had 0 reason to be dejected enough to do this, Dewt…</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find this statement interesting, because I guess he is to assume and you assume that your behavior has NO affect on him and it should NOT have any affect on him.

I find it interesting after all of the time you have spent here learning about LB's and specifically DJ's that you could make that statement.

Dylan, your marriage is a mess because of decisions Dewt has made and because of decisions YOU have made. You have a decision to make and clearly you haven't made it clear to Dewt. You seem to assume that he ASSUMES that you will be back. But he is NOT assuming that because you have given precious little to him in the past months to suggest that your A is over and even if it is over that you care for him at all.

Even your discussed plans of moving back entail celibacy, separate rooms, and let's just be "friends". Dewt may not be "dejected" enough for you but he has been "rejected" quite a bit.

I am not defending his poor decision or your right to NOT come back. I am taking issue with the blaming and poor behavior on your part in that last post. Your DJ which I quoted, is NOT a very good move on your part.

It is time you stopped messing around and made decisions. You have made some really bad ones yourself so I think it is time the both of you stopped this nonsense and decided if there is enough to try rebuilding your marriage. If you truely don't think there is, then act accordingly, but this blaming stuff NEEDS TO STOP.

He came forwarded and admitted what he did. You know why he did it, just as we tell many posters here the condition of the marriage leads to the decisions people make. You should know. So the only issue is what are YOU going to do besides badmouth him. It serves NO purpose. He did NOT blame you for what he did, he took full responsibility. When are you going to do the same?

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL