I do remember a black couple, beutiful couple, but I thought they were sitting on the right side of us. Are both of you black, or was your wife mexican or oriental? When Dad;s phone rang and he left, he had to ge the call as he was on call the whole weekend...but when he left left for good, he was finished with the course. Had we not gotten into an argument, he would have been more than willing to stay. I wish you woul dhave come up to me. I wanted so badly to ask everyone what their screen names were! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I am so nosy.

Lostnhurt,,,I honestly think that you two are further along than you give yourself credit for. I saw a lot of potential in you two when we talked briefly.

do you have msn titleist? you can IM me at kcav86@msn.com and I can send you my email addy. or lostnhurt can give it to you!
My other thread is called Plan B is in our future!

lostnhurt,

How did you feel after the seminar? I felt like he said so many of the things that I was unable to say. It was nice to have someone else do that in a way free of LB's.

I haven't received my password for the other section of the boards. I thought that we were going to have these by now. I'm looking forward to starting the courses, but now that she's aware of the POJA, it will be tough if she decides to drag her feet. Right now she's not enthusiastic about doing the assignments.

Were you able to discuss any of the concepts learned while there or after the seminar? My wife was upset that he recommended not talking about the past. She has 11 years of legitimate hurt and pain to work through. On our way to SF (San Francisco) after Saturday's session there were questions about the first years of marriage. I told her that we could and should discuss these times. The only thing is, I don't remember why I was so hurtful and immature.

When she saw my top EN's she found it hard to believe that I want affection. She reminded me of all of the times she tried to make plans just for the two of us. I couldn't remember a single occasion. Is this some sort of amnesia on my part?

Sunday morning she came over and sat next to me on the chair and we cuddled for an hour or so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She said, check! We held hands in the car and she said, check! She was letting me know that while she didn't want to make an attemp, she was making the choice and wanted to make me aware that she was checking these times off on her list.

This morning I told her that I've negelected her for too long. She asked if I was ever going to turn back into the mean man I was. I told her that I love her and never want to neglect her like that again.

I should stop because I feel like I rambling.

Any insight would be great.

Titleist

Mom and T,

I felt you guys are so enthuisistic(I could never spell this word right!). I felt like we are going no where. But I learned to be patient.

We did not talk about anything in our R at all. In fact WH left the hotel Sat. after the class to his parents, and asked me to saty with the kids. That was the part I need to report on my thread as the negative. After that day, we didn't talk, not sleep in the same room. I don't know how it will go this evening, if we can start it and listen to 1 hour, I will call it a sucess.

I will just do it slowly. If he can commit 3 hr. a week, i call it a big sucess. You see what I mean.

Mom,

I don't have msn IM... I do have a yahoo IM account. (titleist19682003).

My wife could pass for mexican or oriental. Many often ask her what her nationality is. Her skin is very fair for a black woman.

You can forward your email addy to titleist19682003@yahoo.com.

I also posted a response about the "pill" question.

Hope everthing goes well.

Titleist

I remember you! Your guys are a beautiful couple, just as lostnhurt is. Of course everyone there was beautiful, weren't they?

Acutally, THE PILL thread was not the thread I was talking about titleist...hehe the other thread is called "plan B is in our future"

see what you think of that one! It is long though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mom,

I just started an IM account with MSN. I can be IM'd at titleist19682003@msn.com.

I did read your thread about plan B. I would recommend you delete the thread when you are done here today. I would talk to SH, as he seems to have his finger on the pulse.

I think if there were ever a case for Plan B, you have one. The only remaining question is do you have all of the people/financial resources to do a succesful Plan B? Never be afraid to take the gloves off in the fight for your marriage. You want to look back and be able to say that you did the best Plan A/B with no regrets.

Titleist

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Guess what, when I read the title: Pictures from SF. I thought it was SF, you know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I, like lostnhurt, thought you were posting porn! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Curiosity killed the cat. You both looked anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> I, like lostnhurt, thought you were posting porn! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Sheesh.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You guys are horrible! I see you decided to "check" it out though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Mom, we need to have some fun out of this whole ordeal. Otherwise we will all dead before their A's die.

Can you show me how to post pictures? I have some from my cruise.

Mom,

Beautiful pics. Brings back memories of when I was in CA my family not quite a year ago (just two months before WH's A started--we were still happy then--I thought).

I am very envious of your GG bridge pic though. It was very foggy and cold the entire day we were there. You could only see bits and pieces of the bridge through the fog. I've been to San Francisco before but kids and H hadn't been.

And I'd like to report that apparently I DON'T have a dirty mind anymore, because when I saw SF, I knew what you meant. Boy am I boring!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

LL

Titleist -

Sounds like your wife has gotten some of the ideas. What are her top EN's? And are you checking them off?

Beleiver,

I started meeting her important EN's before I knew that's what they were called. Her top needs are Domestic Support and Conversation.

I've learned how to cook over the last eight months. Quite a few burnt sacrafice's along the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I make sure that I send an email or pick up the phone to talk. We've talked more in the past eight months than we have in the last eight years. We do a morning devotional that takes a couple of minutes to read. The subject matter gives us the starting point for very meaningful conversations.

Any other suggestions?


Titleist

T, you and your W are doing well. Did you start your lesson yet? I hit a rock, a huge mountain last night. I posted to Dr. Harley. If you need the password, send an e-mail to me kzmath@hotmail.com. Dr. Harley gave it to me in the seminar.

One of my Wh's top En is conversation. But I even don't know what to sya to him, he is so withdraw.

Lostnhurt,

Well, I could be doing a little better today. I reminded my wife last night about our counseling session scheduled for today. She said she forgot and will not be off of work in time to make the session. I'm a little bummed about that, but she didn't have any problem with rescheduling for next week.

A little advice for talking to your H. Whatever his interest are, that's what you talk about. So many times we are so consumed with the recovery process, that's all we want to discuss. I've found discussing the children, plans for the home, work or anything that interests her will get the ball rolling. I've been doing a daily devotional with her that has served as the stimulus to some great converstation. The devotional is called, "Moments Together for Couples" by Dennis & Barbara Rainey.

You know how to have great conversation, I would recommend that you stay away from the A and other hard to talk about issues. The time to discuss those will come after he opens up and finds that his feelings are safe. He know that what he has to say may be hurtful, but it's easier to keep those feelings inside for the moment. I found that after I learned how to communicate with my wife, we haven't had a very hard time discussing the issues surrounding our A's.

Hope this helps.

Titleist

T, Thanks for all the suggestion. They all are helpful. I am sorry to thread jeck mom's thread. I hop eshe doesn't mind.

We had no A talk lately, not much R talk either. His other need was recreational companionship. His comment was: she doesn't know what I like the most. I guess that is true, maybe OW knows. He never told me. I don't know what he likes really. In my eyes, he is so BORING. He has no interest at all. If he is home, he only sits in front of the computer reading whatever. He doesn't talk spiritual things to me, actually, he doesn't say anything to me. Sometime, I feel like i am the only one talking, which made him feel that I am so controlling. I try very hard.

Lostnhurt,

Go back and look at what things you did for recreation early in your relationship. I'm sure you will find some ideas there. Is there a park near by, maybe you could go play tennis or shoot hoops?

Sit by him while he's on the computer if he will allow it. Sometimes just being there and near will get things going. Show some interest of your own in recreational things. Turn on ESPN and see what you can learn. I would recommend taking up golf. It's four hours where you can be together. There's not a lot of time to talk, but that may be good too... Ask him what he thinks about golf our getting a membership to a local health club.

Titleist

T, thank you for all the suggestions. I tried them all, he just not want to do anything with me. If I sit besides hime, he will think I am annoying. He just simply not let me to fill his EN.

How high on his list is SF? I know that while he is withdrawn it will be tough. I believe that there is a solution. In the book of James, he wrote that if we lack wisdom that we should ask God. God would in turn give us the wisdom we need. God is more for your marriage then you or anyone here ever will be.

I know it sounds trite, but God has your answer. Keep seeking and asking for the wisdom to get the key to your husbands heart. God will not fail you. Make sure that after you talk to God, you take the time to be quite and listen to what he has to say. He will speak! Be ready for what he has to say. Sometimes it's the smallest of things that he uses to accomplish the big picture.

Titleist

Titleist!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I keep meaning to drop you a line...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Any insight would be great. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...well, here's my two cents worth: you are doing awesomely well!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

mom and lost ...pay attention to this man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> when I first starting talking to him I was none too happy with some of his underlying assumptions about his wife, or his reactions to her...I even (forgive me Titleist!) wondered if he was "real"...after all, the tub story was too much like a typical male fantasy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

now (in only a few short months) he is a wonderful example of the turnaround that a BS can effect in themselves...like quitting LBing in words, thoughts and actions -- a very deep change indeed...

he is also a WS and can talk from the male perspective of learning to meet his W's needs despite the hurt she's inflicting on him (ie. when she LBs him)...

Titleist: hope you don't mind that I raise your unusual story here...I'm doing so because I think hearing about your fundamental changes will give these women and others great hope...after all, it is the same kind of change their H's need to go through, once they make the choice to recommit to their M...

I also think it helps others to maintain hope when the going gets tough...and you've certainly had your share of tough times to get through... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

that's why any encouragement you can give others not to LB is SO important ...you've discovered first-hand that this is the key to getting past the A to the root of the troubles between you, learning to craft a new, stronger M with your reluctant (at first) WS...

all the best to you and your W in your continuing journey...I am so pleased to hear the latest news...awed

Awed,

Thank you for popping in. The recovery road is a long, slow, painful yet rewarding journey. I just decided (with the help of people like you) to begin to shape my marriage into what I want it to be. I ask myself the question, "what would I want my wife to do for me"? I take my answer and begin to meet the needs of my wife in her way.

I believe we all want to be deeply connected to our mates. It's meeting the needs of our mates that takes us to a place of "feeling" in love. I've really come to understand that I "do" have the ability to be relational and evoke the feeling of love in my wife.

It's going to take time and a commitment to the plan. Sometimes I feel like it's not going to work because I don't have her "buy in", yet. The more I practice what I've learned the more the wall that divides us is torn down. If it's possible to tear down a wall of division, it's easier to do things that put more bricks in the wall.

I'm a firm believer that, All Things are Possible. Time, trust and commitment are the starting point to rebuilding.

Awed, thanks again for all of your help and support.

Titleist