svb

reading your thread really got me thinking......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'd call myself an old-timer and therefore I'd like to share a little of my history.

When I found the "first" evidence of an affair, I "confronted" my husband "immediately"!

Jan.13 2001 I received my husbands cell-phone bill. I had (uptil then) never looked at the detailed calls but that day I did.
I found many calls to one woman that called herself our friend.

I confronted my husband that day. I told him what I had found and I "knew" that something was "wrong!!! Terribly wrong!
My gut was "going crazy!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

At first my husband "sqirmed" around and said they only talked. Within a few minutes he did admit an affair and he "fell apart!"

I held him and I comforted him............

Within time I found more things that told me that my husband was still not telling me the truth.
Again and every time, I confronted him immediately.

One time I had found a CD with "their" favorite song. I asked him if OW had ever given him a CD or something simular.
He denied.......... I asked him again (softly & sweet)
He denied again............ after a third time, he said: Yes she did give me a CD but I threw it away!

I then pulled the CD out of the shelf and threw it on the floor in front of him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

But again, I went to him and comforted him. I told him I only needed the "truth" and I would no longer accept lies.

All through this time, I listened very carefully to my "gut". Never was I let down by my feelings.
When you feel that something is not right, it isn't!!!! It's that simple.

When I asked my husband a "direct" question, I would know if he was telling me the truth by his reaction.
Anger is always a sign that something is not right.

If you found "condom wrappers" in your house, I think you have all the right in the world to know why & how and who put them there.
I mean "condom wrappers" just don't fall into the "garbage can !"
If you didn't put them there, he should be able to tell you how they got there.
If he doesn't want to tell you or if he gets mad then I'd say "It STINKS!" It's that simple!!!!

Does it matter that he knows that you "suspect?"

Well, I don't think so because if he didn't want you to know anything, he wouldn't of put "condom wrappers" into the garage in the first place or at least he'll have a "logical" explanation.

There is a very good book called: "Cheaters" by Raymond B. Green (180 Telltale Signs Mates are Cheating and How to Catch Them)
I just thought I'd give you abit of a impression.

Body Language Indicating Untruthfulness:
1. Tapping feet on the floor or drumming fingers on a table or desk.
2.Touching,covering or in some was shielding eyes from view.
3.Looking at the floor and not meeting your eyes while offering explanations for his or her behaviour.
4. Blinking his or her eyes excessively.
5. Talking with hand gestures.
6. Looking to the left or right, but never at you.
7. Hesitating before answering, as if to think about the right thing to say.
8. Flushing of the skin or becoming very pale.

Direct & Spontaneous: Truthful subjects are usually direct and quick with their answers. They maintain good eye contact.

So, I hope this might help you a little.

take care
bb

SVB,

I can understand your situation and the utter frustration that comes with Just Not Knowing. I too had lots of "circumstantial" evidence (which as you know, they can explain away, as if on command). But for me, as all the sexual stuff happened at work, behind closed & locked doors, I could not get any concrete proof. IT WAS Making me crazy (literally).

Then I was all over the Internet. These many websites I visited showed me the "signs" of an A (that were defiantly there). But I knew the only way to catch her was with 100% proof. The problem...how to get it?? With where and how it was occuring, I couldn't figure out how to catch them.

Thankfully, that is when I came across the check mate system. To be brief, it is a home test kit that detects dried semen. So I stopped having sex with her for 10 days (as to not get a false positive) and then tested her undergarments on a "likely" day for contact. Guess what? There was semen in her underwear, and it sure wasn't mine. CAN you say BUSTED!!

I then played the game, just to see where it would go,(since I already had my concrete evidence). We went round and round for hours with all the circumstantial evidence I had. She carefully "explained away" every single piece of it and would not admit to anything.
I even had 3 explicit text messages. And they were Hard Core.
However, without this real proof (in her eyes), I would still be where you are today. And that place ain't fun.

Anyway, here is a bit of the info. on the website's message. If you can't figure out what else to do to prove you H stories (one way or the other) then maybe this can help you. For your own piece of mind, I hope you find something that does either clear or convict you H.

Not running a commercial, just sharing what actually "worked" for me. If this doesn't help you, please find something that will. I feel for you because you've been looking for quite some time now.
For me it was the missing piece to end my W A.
Take care

..................................................
  Is that a semen stain in his underwear?

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I'll just say from my experience (wish I did differently!) and I'm deeply convinced in this:

After first confrontation, if he denies - never confront him before you CATCH him with OW! In flagranti! Nothing less! (Yes, it's hard but beneficial much more once done with.)
Till that time, Plan A and snooping (he should never finds out about that!, if he does - you deny!)

CheckMate is good for men.
If found on H's underwear, he can say that's quite normal to have sometimes some semen on it, and it is...)

Believe your guts! (It took me ONE YEAR AND A HALF to find out about OW... and still don't know all I want to know - even divorced now he still hides seeing her...)
Although, obsessions are very dangerous, but according to your posts there is something fishy... be persistent in snooping... if you cannot just neglect and build stronger relationship with him...

BB, you are very lucky that your H admitted to his A right away! For me, this is absolute torture. I don't like his reactions when I ask him direct questions. Although I'd like to believe him, my gut is going crazy, like you say.

Top Rope, I'd like to try CheckMate, but he ALWAYS washes all of his clothes before I come home. I guess I could always have some on hand, just in case.

BTN, I know you say I should continue in plan A and keep snooping. However, I have confronted him 3 or 4 times already. He is mad at me now. Yes, I am the bad one. He stormed off to work last night. However, each time I've confronted him he gets angry, but then he forgets about it the next day. It is as if I never mentioned anything to him. I hope that it is the same this time. I am afraid that I blew it this time by confronting him one too many times. I don't want him to go back to being distant and cold and mean to me.

To be honest, though, I really don't think I can do plan A anymore. I am tired of being played for a fool. I don't think that tonight I can wake him up gently at 8:30pm and make him coffee and serve him dinner and then kiss him goodbye as I usually do before he goes to work. I don't think that I can physically even do it. I don't even want to be home tonight. I don't even want to see him! I am tired of the lies! How could you have done this for a year and a half, BTN? I couldn't do it for longer than three months. I also don't know if I can just neglect and ignore the evidence and behavior and try to build the relationship while he carries on doing who knows what! Meanwhile he knows that he has a W at home that will love him and serve him hand and foot.

I've been thinking more about the visit to the post office. I am starting to think that he might have actually gone to the post office. However, I believe that he went somewhere else first and just stopped at the post office on the way home. These are the types of lies that my H tells me - they are "half truths", or "lies by omission." This way he can say "I didn't lie to you, I went to the post office." However, he fails to mention what he did before he went to the post office or after he went to the post office. As I posted before, I really believe that the 48 miles he regularly travels is to the city - near the post office. I am very tempted to bring it up again tonight and ask him where else he went besides the post office! I can ask him about the condom wrappers, too. I never did ask him about that. Somebody hold me back!

Can I do plan B? I am done with school at the end of July and I can then LEAVE and move back to my hometown and start my life over.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: svb ]</small>

Not until you've done a HELL a good Plan A.. He is not coming out.. I think Plan A works better after the TRUTH comes out. I think he's cheating!!! i am almost 99% sure....

Keep finding more concrete information.... did you set up the voice recorder correctly? Does he have a cellphone?

Girl, take a day off... its all you need to do.. act like you go to work.. then stay somewhere close..
In second thought.. it's been a while since we've been telling you this...... DO YOU REALLY want to know? Really want to know what he is up to? I know the feeling of not wanting to know..... what you think you need to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

big hugs...Please take care of yourself.

SVB-
A couple of things,
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, IT IS A DUCK!!!

Trust your instinct. The OM W in my case was hot on our trail, she knew her H, and she could tell by his actions something wasn't right.

I'm thinking Plan B without exposure, isn't a good thing. This will just enable the A. You will give him the perfect opportunity to just get more involved in it.

I'm no expert, just going by what I read. Keep reading and keep posting. We all have your best interest in mind.

Sorry for your struggle. Hang in there. Keep snooping. Try and stay strong and cont. Plan A, and your snooping.

Remember everytime you question him, LB!!!!
He wants you to LB, it justifies his actions. It makes it easier for the A to cont. and grow.
MB-Love
KY-4

As I said - stop confronting him TOTALLY, now!, and wait until you find out (if!)...
Confronting with these "little things" of your "proofs" will just initiate fights, his withdrawal and - more of hiding!... also, your plan A is not good than?!

It's clear you won't learn anything from him (so far as it is his decision) and it can last long long time... so why bother asking him at all??

I know, it's difficult to PlanAing (I wasn't able...), but you have to 'talk with yourself' and decide - do you want your marriage, is HE WORTH of FIGHTING FOR HIM, do you want to spend the rest of your life together, would you forgive him if there is A... you have to answer YOUSELF all of this BEFORE you either confront him or stop doing Plan A...!!!

Trust me - there are As in many marriages, and MANY of them a spouse NEVER learn! and spend the rest of life together... ie. if you don't know AND he makes you happy, better not to dig and open Pandora's box but work on getting emotionally/sexually/meaningfully close to him!
(I know, some people will now say that in this case that kind of marriage is not what they want, with no honesty, fidelity, etc.... but IF you DON'T KNOW and are pleased with your life with your spouse - why to ruin this by digging...
Please, this doesn't mean you know about A and close your eyes - this means you simply don't know, you don't dig either and you work on your marriage to be better and better - A's free!...
Hope this makes some sense... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Or, once you find... well, some people forgave and build even stronger relationship... it depends on many things... In my case he wasn't worth of going through that (even before his A I was deeply thinking of leaving him...) Also I know some cases when betrayed spouses never even tried to reconcile although they had good reasons to do it... it depends on people...

How could I have done this for a year and a half?? (Imagine!!)
Cause I'm stupid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was confronting him, he served me with half-truths, I didn't want admit myself that he's a cheater, he was telling me he loved only me and that I'm a paranoid, SICK, mean, insecure (btw - once they see you insecure your attractiveness is smaller and smaller!!! and respect they had for you too!... well, he almost convinced me in that... I was afraid for my sanity (posted here about that at that time and got some comforting nice answers... thanks MBs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )
I was stupid I didn't shut my mouth up and followed my guts and snoop right away not letting him know about my actions/feelings... smiling at him all the way...
So, when I eventually did... it took me a couple of months more...

I think it's early for you to Plan B... not before you are sure why you Plan B at all...
Plan B can help WS and OP to get closer, but also once they are more together they'd see it's quite different when you don't have to hide anymore... or - that could be a wake up call...


OK... all of us think there is something wrong in your H's behavior... but - it doesn't have to be OW (A)... could be some hobby you wouldn't approve...?

OK, OK, I'll hold off on plan B and stick with plan A for a while longer. I've calmed down some. Thanks to everyone.

Hi Harudah, how have you been? I know, I WILL take off one day when I build up enough guts. I also have to precisely plan which day it will be. Trust me, I DO want to know the truth. It would be much better to know than to continue on as I am. It will be better for my sanity.

I have been using the voice recorder correctly, I believe, but I haven't heard anything condemning yet. I only know at this point that he talks to his favorite sister weekly and he tells HER more about his life than he tells ME. I am learning more about him this way. For instance, he had a doctor's appt. - he had an upper respiratory infection and a check-up all together. He told me that he was "OK," but he told his sister every little detail, including problems he's been having that he mentioned to the doctor that he never mentioned to me. I'm sorry, but that is really hurtful. I either think that I don't make him feel safe enough to tell me these things, or he doesn't want to concern me, or he just doesn't care about me enough to share anything with me. I also know that, although we discussed moving back to my hometown, and he tells me that he might consider it, he told her that he will NEVER move back there.

Here's a kicker, though, I couldn't set up the recorder yesterday. He was awake and downstairs when I left for work in the morning. That's just my luck. I probably would have gotten some juicy information, too. I know he talked to his sister yesterday. UGGH!

He does not have a cell phone. He HATES cell phones.

2pathetic and BTN, I will not confront him anymore or question him. (I will do my best, anyway) BTN, you are right in that he will NEVER admit to anything - so there is no use in asking. I will keep snooping as best as I can.

I do understand your point about not digging any further and just working on my marriage. To be honest, that thought has crossed my mind in the past.

I don't know, maybe at this point I am trying to decide if this M is worth fighting for. At this moment, I look at our past together, and all I can focus on is the negative - How he does not respect me, how he always criticizes me and makes me feel worthless (he even told me once that I was worthless as a human being) How he treats others better than he treats me (our neighbors, for example), although he demonstrates to the outside world that he is a model husband and we have a model marriage. I could go on and on.
Of course there are good qualities and good moments, but I am currently weighing it all out.

I guess I am just having a bad day.

Also, BTN, you are not STUPID, although I feel stupid myself sometimes. We are just very loving and loyal people.

You seem to know when your H will make one of these mysterious trips. Can you hire a PI to keep an eye on H on an "at risk" day?

Or how about forking out $100 or so for a GPS that will store waypoints so you can see where he went? Hide it in his car, turn it on...

Example GPS

BTN, I forgot to mention something.

You suggested that he might have a hobby that I might not approve of. The only thing I can think of is him going to bars by himself. That would also explain his habit of washing his clothes as soon as he comes home, to hide the smoke smell. I don't go to bars. Can you go in the middle of the day - say from 12pm to 3pm? Although this doesn't explain the condoms. I guess it could if he meets someone in particular or picks up random people for sex. I also thought of strip clubs, but I don't think he spends enough money to go to a strip club. I would think that he would be spending a lot more. Sometimes he only spends $9. Did I mention that I check his wallet before and after his days off? Are strip clubs open in the afternoon? Are these the hobbies you had in mind?

Turtlehead, I have thought of a PI, but they are way too expensive. I called to get rates.

I also looked into GPS systems. The one I saw was a weatherproof GPS unit to place under his car. It is around $400. Do any of you know if there is an antenna that he would see if I use a GPS system? Have any of you ever used one? The one I saw prints out a map and give an approximate address, but not an exact address. I guess a GPS would be used to get an approximate location of where he goes.

There are now some very economical ways to track people using GPS technology. One simple solution is to purchase a GPS enabled phone and track in on the internet. You will get exact addresses, times, etc.. Be sure to turn all of the phone’s sounds off and hide it in your H’s car. There are several sites out there that you can pay a small monthly fee and track GPS phone in real time. Here is an example ulocate

Remember that you will need to find a site that is compatible with a cellular service provider in your area. Hope this helps.

Robert

I just wanted to give a quick update on last night.

Everything is fine. He is not angry anymore about my last confrontation. I woke him up just before 9pm and made him coffee. The subject was not brought up by either of us and it is as if we never had the discussion the night before. We kissed and hugged as he left for work.

I listened to the recording for the day before he woke up to go to work. There were no phone calls or any visitors. Just sounds of the television and him talking to the tv and laughing. He sounded to be in a really good mood. This gave me a clue that he was going to be OK with me.

I just find it bizarre how he can so easily blow off our discussions and pretend nothing has happened, while I fester about it forever. Oh well.

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: svb ]</small>

yes, could be any of that, or not too

he might want to have some time just for himself
included library, having a drink alone etc.

take care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

svb???? what's going on girl? Tell us how you are doing.. When you do not post I think things are either good or real bad.. so bump to say hello even.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You have support group here..

Big hugs*

My boyfriend quite shamelessy told me that he and his mates had alsways stuck by the motto 'Deny Everything'. He told me that if a man has got something to lose, such as a house or other joint material things, he's less likely to admit to anything when confronted in case he loses everything. Where as a guy who really doesn't care about you or your relationship and could quite easily have been building a new one with someone else might be looking for that confrontation as his green light to walk away. On the other hand, and i'm certainly not saying you're paranoid or lying, but when we believe our partner is up to something we start questioning even the slightest things, where they are, how long they've been gone, checking pockets and wallets etc and before we know it we've become consumed with ideas of infidelity. But after all that, yes i think you should confront him. Just make sure you do it right. You need to catch him completely off guard to gauge his true response. Take him out for a meal, be really sweet and then just hit him with it. He won't be prepared so his intial reaction should be the true one. And if he is cheating, log on to www.cheated-on.com and post a photo where you can Name and Shame him so no one else ends up with him. Good luck.

Sassyp, I think I have seen the website you mentioned on the Internet – or something similar. Believe me, if I find out for sure that my H is having an A, I will post his name and picture there!

Harudah, thanks for checking up on me! It means a lot. I’ve been feeling a little down lately. I’ve been thinking back to our earlier years of marriage. My H was more playful and affectionate. He would do little things to make me feel loved – make me tea, bring me home little gifts, etc. He would always want me sitting right next to him on the sofa when we watched television. He was never one to tell me that he loved me, but he made a point of showing it in his actions. He always felt that actions were more important than words. I feel like so much has changed. Now, not only does he not say that he loves me, but he doesn’t really show it anymore, either. He does nothing for me – he only worries about himself. We sit on separate couches when we watch t.v. He no longer spontaneously hugs me. Most of the time, if I go near him, I get the feeling that I am bothering him. When he leaves for work, I kiss and hug him goodbye. But when I leave for work and he is around – he just says “bye” from afar. Overall, I just feel so lonely and starved for affection. It's so sad.

Granted, things have been better lately. At least he is speaking to me! I could never go through anything similar to those 4 months when he put me though h***. He was sooo mean. We do spend time together and talk more. He criticizes me less (trust me, that’s a positive). But still, something is missing. I feel that anything he does is just to keep me from getting upset, as opposed to keeping me happy -maybe to keep me off his trail. I don’t know.

Oh well. I have to keep thinking – plan A, plan A, plan A. He has to be my #1 priority, even though I know I am not his. My husband is not working tonight. He is off on Sunday and Monday nights. This morning he is getting his tooth pulled. I guess I will be babying him tonight. Hopefully, he will not feel up to going on one of his rendezvous tomorrow. Somehow, I doubt it. We’ll see.

svb