FL,
You are in great hands. God uses this forum for you to see things in very different ways. Pep and JL make great points and are so experienced at this. Pep's reply about this being a rebirth is right on. That's how I see it in my M and it will become true for yours. JL is pointing out the existing barriers in your M. I know you were in counseling together and I'm not sure how deep those barriers go.

I have discovered the less I focus on the A, the more I forget about it. I even told my W this week that I don't even think about it anymore. Triggers occur, but I am able to squash them. We are almost 9 months past dday. Right now the A is a barrier for your H and you, but that will fade as you continue to stay with your M.

I know in my M that the secret to success is to figure out those barriers and work on them. For me it has been one sided, but I see my W starting to respond to my changes. She is starting to believe that we can be close again. This is without any MC. Only God, some books and tapes and this site for help. The people here are incredable and the blend of opinions and stories has made a huge difference for me and my M.

Read and reread those posts. No matter how hard you try, you can't change your H and force him to do somthing he is not ready for yet. You can influence him by your changes and love. It takes time, patience and a consistant loving behavior from you. He will see it. Focus on the positives. He will change, but right now, it really depends on you.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Roman, I've been wanting to say this to you...

You post the lovliest things... deep and spiritual... and from your heart.

Wonderful.

Pep

FL,

I read through this thread primarily because the title got my attention. Let me assure you that God loves you & forgives you for what you've done. H, OTOH, will take a longer time to do so. Some people have a very hard time with forgiveness. I usually don't, but I remember saying to myself that I had forgiven my H for his A, over & over again, and with God's help I thought I did. Then reality hit when he moved back home. I still have my moments, 3 months later, that I wonder if I really did. I get angry with H, sometimes snap at him w/o meaning to & having to apologize to him because I didn't approach him with love in my heart. I find myself wondering, when H doesn't come home when he says he's going to or call when he's supposed to, what is he actually doing? Is he lying to me about what he really was doing? I doubt. So be patient with your H - he is having a hard time dealing with it all. I'm sure in his heart he truly thinks he has forgiven you, after all, he waited 2 yrs for you to come back to him. That's a long time. Sometimes, I think we think we forgive people, but the hurt is so deep that it resurfaces at the oddest moments.

Just remember that God does love you, He already forgave you & forgot about it. Blotted it out and now you have to forgive YOURSELF! Always remember this:

God Walks With Me

There's times when life just gets us down
And we truly feel God is not around
The devil whispers in our ears
And fills our heads, with doubts and fears

No matter what we try to do
He tells us we are "failures" too
As vicious as a lions bite
He "drains us of our will to fight

To beat depression, to smile again
We need to turn to God again.
We feel defeated and so sad too
It seems "Impossible" for us to do

Yet have you noticed when you are down
Then other "christian's" come around
It isn't just by chance, you know
God "sends them to us", when we're low
He picks us up, through "Christian cheer"
And reassures us He Is Near

No matter what our problems be
He's always close to you and me
So though our woes be small or large
Our Heavenly Father "is still in charge"

If you should ask me "how I know"
"I went through this", just hours ago
I felt so "hopeless" and so down
Yet now "I stand on Solid Ground"
It wasn't God, who turned from me
Yet by "His Grace" He's set me free

I pray, If nothing else I learn
When I am down "To Him, I'll turn"
My trust, in Him, is up to me
For He controls My Destiny
Whatever God may lead me to
He's promised "He will walk me through"

And should I slip and fall again
I'll quickly grab "His Nail_Scarred Hand"
I know I've learned and now I see
I'll always know "God Walks With Me".

Keep your chin up & try to be patient with your H. After all, he's worth it isn't he? He thought you were worth waiting for, now wait for him. God bless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> YOUR feelings of your own self-worth are tied up with "saving him"... and if you perceive he is struggling.. where does that put your self-esteem?

Your anxiety may bloom because you are assuming responsibility for something HE needs to be responsible for...

Please be careful...

YOU cannot save him ... that would rob him of discovering his own strenths, his integrity and not to mention, his manhood. No man wants to be saved ~by~ his wife.

Think about supporting and admiring him instead.

Think about it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a very good point pep. you are very right, i have linked my self-worth to his happiness (i think i have always done that). if he is not happy, i must not be good. that will be a hard thought process to change!!!

JL, well as always you give good things to think about. YES radical honesty on this topic in specific sounds very scary!!! i guess i have been thinking about it in a different way and that is exploring why am i feeling like the interaction between us is physical only? and can i change that feeling by changing my thoughts on the matter? I am thinking H is not feeling emotions towards me. I am thinking for H it is physical only and those thoughts result in my feeling unloved when we are intimate. H tells me it is not physical only for him, so why am i not believing him. i figure i need to work on my acceptance of what he is telling me. telling him what triggers me is a good idea, but before i do that i'm going to work on understanding my own triggers and do what i can to fight them off. as for asking him how he feels and what triggers him... i am thinking i need to go back to just letting him be, let him take the lead on when he wants to share stuff, back off a bit. asking him every 5 mins "how are you feeling now" can get a bit annoying for him!!! (ok, i don't ask him every 5 min but i'm sure you know what i mean). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

moving on to your off the wall thoughts on our careers... yes, you are very perceptive. I am a computer programmer. but i am not your ordinary computer programmer, i am an agressive, in your face, this needs to be perfect, over-achiever type of programmer. specifically i am a tester and i work with developers to fix their bugs. when i joined the company 18yrs ago, i positioned myself into a group of other mega over-achievers all headed up by a super mega over-achiever boss. that boss colleted a lot of the same type of personalities and boy did we work hard!!! and we made tremedous impact on the quality of our product. i quickly became one of the key people. I LOVED my job. I loved the challange, i loved the pace. i loved the mega pats on the back for doing such a awesome job. I loved the way people knew my name and came to me to solve the big problems. (i've kinda always been a super achiever, i earned my bacholer's and master's in only 5 yrs total being allowed to take master classes before i was done with my bacholer program). I didn't at the time, but i do realize now the impact my job had on my marriage. And, yes, i agree, these traits are more often asosociated with males than females.

i was very lucky, i had it all, when my daugher was born in 1989, my boss let me call the shots. i became a part time employee and only went into the office 3 days a week (although i still worked from home a lot on the other days.) eventually i went back to full time status but was allowed to work from home. schedule was very flexible, as long as i got done what needed to be done, no one complained. my reputation as an excellent employee continued.

H had a full time photography job with a good company and he was happy there for a while. but then he did not have as much control over the artistical use of the photos and that bugged him. he didn't like the politics, he didn't like dealing with editors that cropped the h*ll out of his pics just to make it fit on the page(as he used to put it). he made pretty good money too, but my career, being in the area it is, always resulted in a higher paycheck then he had. i always wondered it that bothered him, i think i just assumed it did. when it came up in counsoling, he said absolutely not. i still question it though (i obviously don't take H at his word but that is because he would never tell me when something bugged him, like our entire marriage!!) anyway....

in 1994 he quit his job to become a freelancer. the business never took off emensly but he did ok for himself and with my paycheck there was no pressure. he never really advertised himself to get more work, what ever came his way thru normal contacts, he was happy with. and because he is a good photographer, he has kept a good amount of clients and earned new ones too. but he has never put effort into cultivating and expanding.

then our son arrived and my job got more demanding and since he was home, i stopped working from home so much. i think the way he became "Mr. Mom" snuck up on him and i don't think that was really his intention. but at the same time, he will tell you, he has enjoyed being able to be home for the kids.

then i got burnt out, the company started going down, my dad got sick, i had a break down and since then i have not liked my job. then 9/11 happened and i examined myself even more and decided i really wanted to change careers. i started working towards doing that but i don't think i included my H in my thought process early enough. of course all this was happening at the same time that i was deciding to divorce too. i took on a part time job at a learning center, i took on kids to tutor, i took on a teaching gig at the college (i quit the job at the learning center first). but in the end due to finances i haven't become a full time teacher.

i admit, i was flying solo in my thinking and my planning. i guess i just figured it was my career i was talking about. i never asked him to ask for my permission when he quit his job. i was 100% behind him. but i could afford to be, i had a high-paying job i loved. i never believed this before, but i do now. i know my H would love to be able to have a job that would allow me to quit this job. i don't know if he is really trying his hardest to get into that position but i do know he would like to see it magically happen.

so you are right, neither of us are where we want to be. and yes, even though i am how i am at work, i do want to be a female, and treated carefully, protected, safe. and at this point, i would love to chuck in this career completely. i miss not being able to be an at-home mom more. i was able to do it for a while, balance working from home and working out of the house but not anymore and the kids are getting older (not to mention i'm getting older!!).

now with all this said and done... i don't know what to do to make the situation any better!! i cannot change my job without H's paycheck increasing or our lifestyle dramatically changing (and by that i mean giving up the vacation house which we use almost every weekend, even if it is only for 1 day, the house is only 1 hour away)

i have been writing this all night in between running tests here and it is now time to go HOME.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would invest so much time into reading the ramblings of a stranger, not to mention putting so much effort into responses. but i do thank you. so if you have any pearls of wisdom, i'm certainly up for hearing them.

Yvette,

Thank you for that wonderful post!!!! so wonderful to read after a very long day of work.

roman,

i almost missed you... i read your post a long time ago, the day has just been a bit nuts and what time i did have, i was rambling on to JL about our careers. I am so happy to hear things are going well in your marriage. I am especially glad to hear the A is so much out of your mind. It must make for a much more peaceful mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your story is quite an inspiring one and I really thank you for how much you have stuck around and posted to me.

part of me thinks i should stay away from this board somewhat, but the support i get is invalueable. at the same time, sometimes it is a bit draining because of how much pain is here. i guess, like everything else, i just need to keep a good balance.

i don't think i would personally made the improvements in myself (yes, i am actually saying something good about myself, i do believe i have made self-improvements, at least for the moment i am believing i have) had it not been for you, your spiritual guidence, the books you have helped me find, your prompting me to pick up the bible and read from that too. you are a very special person.

now i really am heading out of here!!!

Yvette, i wanted to say a bit of a stronger thank you to you too. i do remember how you are one of the very first posters that responded to my very first post in the prayer board. i have come a long way since i first put out that request for prayers.

every once in a while you have popped in and sent me encouragement. that is so very sweet of you. and i didn't even know your story anymore. so i looked and found your "What I've Learned-Hopefully Someone Else Will Learn Too" post from last month, what a nice post and from what i read, things are going good for you and your H, that is wonderful. i think, when i first showed up here in december, that was not that case (unless my memory is bad). what ever the case was then, i'm glad it is going good now.

God bless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i have linked my self-worth to his happiness (i think i have always done that). if he is not happy, i must not be good. that will be a hard thought process to change!!!

I could recognize that behavior in you because I used the same behavior myself!

It's a lose-lose recovery tactic to ~save~ your man.

One day, in my IC session (about 6 weeks into recovery).... I said something like this to the therapist:

"It's OK, I got through it because I am a trooper!"

I expected a big pat on the back for being such a trooper that I had allow myself to place myself last on my own priority list...

The therapist gave me homework:

"Go home and make a list of all the ways being a trooper has harmed you."

It was a long list.

When I find myself going in that direction, I pinch myself mentally and do a turn-around.

When you say "This will be a hard thought process to change" ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> that's GOOD ... because you recognize it is possible to change... and once you do master this skill of allowing your H to be responsible for his moods... it frees YOU up to be loving and empathetic no matter what his mood.... because you don't have to do anything else! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think you are really sweet, and I like you lots. Keep up the good work.

Pep

Well I think Pep's "revirginating" must be working. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Whatever the heck that is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Cause I think she nailed this one. Have you ever really read Harley's articles on the POJA? Do you know what one of the main reasons he came up with it was? It was to prevent RESENTMENT.

You know my favorite quote </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Think about that and then think about what Pep just said to you. THEN...reread your last post to me. How many decisions did you and your H make that the other really did NOT agree on. Do you suppose there was "resentment" and there still is?

Did you notice the timing of your decision to get the divorce? At YOUR lowest point with WORK. It is/was how you define yourself.

FL, I offered my off the wall idea for a reason. I see you sort of like you describe yourself. I mentioned that you are in a male sort of job. Do you know what most men "crave" when in such a position? Love, sex, more love, yup more sex, FL they need to be validated.

Now you being a "GIRL" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , your cravings are a bit different but I think they have been heightened by the fact that you are the major bread winner. You are in a tough field especially now. And you are NOT so sure your capabilities match up with who you are inside. My thoughts on this is that you are so fragil emotionally, because you NEED more support emotionally and that is because the nature of your work does NOT provide that sort of support. Your work is short on human interaction, especially the emotionally supportive sort. It is competive, it is intense,it is often done alone, and it is with a 'bunch of guys' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , who you cannot talk to about how you feel.

So you need more at home. If this supposition (sp) were true, then your H needs to understand where this is coming from. He is YOUR ONLY emotional support. Heavy load for him, but if he knows that the load is not just some justification, he might well answer the bell.

I mentioned that your H is in an artistic field, and he has become sort of Mr. Mom. He may not mind that particularly, but I am guessing he feels inferior to you, becuase he still judges himself by the male standard, just as you do yourself from the female standard. Hence he wants to start a funiture store. A more standard way of making a living, a more traditional role for him in the family, big hours, risk. It has all of the goodies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Are you seeing what I am talking about when I say you are working against type?

So if you humor me for a moment longer, let me make another leap of logic. Say you do need MORE attention, how does your H preceive this? My guess not in the way you think. He may well (depending on his level of resentment) view it as "miss high and mighty" expecting him to cowtow to her, because she is bringing in the bucks and has the power.

When the reality is you feel lost and need him to help you balance your life and it is about you needing his power and strength.

Now if I got even a little close, I think you should consider this. Carefully!

Permit me one more leap. If this were to be the case go back and look at your decisions again, look at his. Look at how you two have interacted, your request for a divorce, your A, his struggles, his lack of drive toward becoming "wildly" successful.

I think you would see a theme. I am wondering, if this line of thought carried any water, if you two could sit down and discuss your interactions from a new perspective so that he KNEW he was NEEDED by you, not because you are "miss high and mighty" but because you really are a woman and would like and need his help, support and protection emotionally.

I am just wondering all of these things. Because when people stay in type it is easier for the other spouse to "guess" (most of us don't do needs testing in our marriages) what the needs might be. When we go against old types (you are the major bread winner, he is Mr. Mom) it is much harder to know how to "see" one another and know their needs. Heck, we don't do a great job in the "normal" stereotypical situations (Dr. Harley is wealthy from this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) it is hard to imagine we would do even that lousey when the situations are NOT stereotypical.

So, FL as you continue to rebuild, as you talk about things, maybe something I have said will help you and H address NOT the cause of the A, that is so evident in your lastest posts, but the issues that led to this state of your marriage, and the ones that will shape your marriage in the future.

Just think about this. If you and your H got your wish. You would be teaching with more times for your kids, and he would be running a funiture store. A much more traditional situation. I think the desires you two have to do this reflect the cost you two have paid for doing what you are both good at, and even enjoy, AND not having addressed the unique needs this created in both of you.

I would even speculate that your H did what he did in rebuilding because HE was allowed or forced to be the leader in the family. He knew he was needed and he responded. One of the hard things about your A or anyones is the feeling that the BS was NOT needed and could be replaced.

More to think about. Must go and get back to writing my proposals.

God Bless,

JL

UGH!!!

of all your words these are hardest to read... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think you are really sweet, and I like you lots. Keep up the good work.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for as hyper as i was last night and pumped up to see this thru, get my own head on right and stay true to myself... i get home and it all goes OUT THE WINDOW!!! i am not sweet, i am stubborn as a mule.

my ability to have empathy stops when it comes to having anything to do with SF right now. although we said we would just lay off doing anything for a bit, H couldn't get back to sleep after i got home and in the end I did the one thing that got him to sleep. but in the process i stopped him from touching me at one point when he wanted to (seems a stupid thing to do on my part, i should be seeing that as a desire on his part to help me feel good) but if i'm not good enough to kiss i don't want an O. bottomline. i just don't want that physical sensation. i don't, i don't, i don't. and if he is going to think that that physical sensation is an adequate acceptable replacement to kissing, it's NOT. if he doesn't want to kiss me fine, i can accept that and be patient, but at this point i don't want him to have access to any part of me then. i don't really feel great about giving to him either, but i can on occasion and i did last night, i can work on getting back to enjoying giving and probably get make some progress there but i'm not going to let it look like our sex life is going great while i am feeling more and more dirty because he doesn't want to kiss me.

i know i am close to ranting here, i'm right back to... how can my mouth be ok for that if it's not ok to kiss. why did you take the chance to allow me to give, even though you thought it would be unpleasant at first in the hopes of working past the unpleasantness but you are not willing to take a chance at kissing me knowing it will be hard at first in the hopes of working past that. and if you just cannot do that now, why can't you just leave me 100% alone???

go ahead everyone, put me back in my place, tell me to stop letting my taker come out and just give. i obviously need an attitude adjustment already. the weekend is here, i sure would like to go into it with a positive tone.

to my credit, i left a msg at home for H, telling him i hope he had fun golfing and that i hope the rest of the day is good for him and to try to sneak in a nap, rainy days are the best days to take naps. and that i loved him.

bumping up...

pep, did you read my last response?

looking for a bit of last minute words of wisdom before starting the weekend.

actually i have calmed down, a hectic day will do that to a person i guess. i really do want to have an enjoyable weekend, so maybe i don't need any words of wisdom, i just have to be nice, relax, be pleasant, stay relaxed, don't sweat any little things, and remain relaxed. perhaps drinking a bit of wine along the way will help!!!

jl, i have read your post and i will re-visit it on monday. i did go off and read up more on POJA and then i had to go show a developer a bug i found in his code last night and i literally said... i don't want to open an MR (modification request, which in this case means, fix this bug!!) until i have enthusastic agreement from you. he chuckled. in the end we decided he agreed there was a bug although he was not enthusastic about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

it did get me thinking, i actually do POJA at work. if i find a problem, i tend to first give the developer a chance to look at it and agree a problem exists, a lot of other people just open MRs and wait to see what becomes of it. i track down the appropriate developer, show him/her the data and then open the MR assigning it immediately to the right person. i think that just makes the solution go faster. i'm not going to debate with anyone over a string of emails if a problem exists. i make sure they see it crystal clear.

i need to read more and think about how to introduce POJA into my marriage. i can see how helpful that can be. what i dont get is how does it work for an issue if we are on opposite sides of the fence. i suppose the kissing is one such example, although i'm not sure it is. we both don't enthusatically agree to kiss, so we dont do it. but that does not mean we are both enthusastically agreeing not kissing is a good thing either. see what i mean?? are we practicing POJA in that case or not?

well i have one more developer to track down before i can leave for the day.

FL,

Actually, the kissing issue is PERFECT for the POJA. Here is why. It is NOT the issue to POJA'd. Here is where people get wrapped around the axel. What you want is demonstrable affection from your H. So the idea is to POJA this issue. Does he want demonstrable affection from you?

So you discuss this and decide you do. However, are either of you into PDA (I'll translate this for you, it means Public displays of affection <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) as opposed to my Palm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> If you would like PDA's but he does not, perhaps you negotiate that it only happens at night where people cannot recognize you, but it is still in public.

Ok, next issue, how to show affection. Let me guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> your choice would be...kissing. Am I close. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> His would be ????

So now he announces that he really doesn't like kissing, but will go for hugs. You announce that kissing is really really what you need and want.

So you two don't kiss, but you don't stop. You now need to explore why he doesn't like kissing. When did it start? Is there something close that might break the ice? A peck on the lips, nose, cheek? What? Could you start with that, and accept what he wants to do? If so, are you two willing to progress as each is comfortable.

People seem to think that POJA's are about things or specific actions or events, but they can and should be about processes that get you both to an event that you both can share and enjoy.

Does this sound familiar? As someone who has spent 35 years debuggin software, usually my of my own construction, this is a similar process.

You work in baby steps. You work toward a goal. You agree on the process, the testing standards, the approaches. You agree on what makes a success or failure. It sounds cold. But, consider it from your H's point of view. If he wanted to take pictures of you and you were sort of worried that you won't look good, what would the process be?

You could discuss clothing, angles, good features, things he likes to see, things you are willing to show. And then he would take some samples and you would discuss them, and decide to go further, or change the poses. It is the same thing.

What you need to understand is that the POJA is you two sitting on the same side of the table trying to find a way to get where you both want to be, happy with something, each other, the marriage whatever. You need to agree on the goal of the POJA before you start the POJA. So the goal is not the issue, it is the details.

If he does NOT want to show you affection, then trying to POJA kissing seems pointless. Don't you agree? If he does not want to show you affection, then the POJA should be what it will take for him to feel he can and want to. Work on that one first. The develop a plan that you both "agree" to and begin there.

Do you see what I am saying? This is a negotiating strategy, but it implies that you both have something you want to achieve first.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

yes, i do see what you are saying. i'm not going to try this at all this weekend. i'm going for a strictly RELAXING weekend. but i will continue internal thinking about this and the first topic i will bring to the table is do we both want to try this POJA concept out. hopefully sometime next week i can get this conversation going between H and I.

one of my recurring thoughts is how we do not seem to be on the same team. it would be wonderful to move in that direction and this concept certainly does just that.

thanks.

and, oh yeah...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let me guess your choice would be...kissing. Am I close?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes you are close and thanks for the smile!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> always a good thing!!!!!

have a great weekend.

FL,
Do you love your H? I know that you love him deeply. Does your H love you? I think he does. Even more that golf!! I just spent an incredable afternoon with my wife at an outdoor cafe. We talked for hours about evertything. We laughed and had a wonderful time sipping wine and sharing. We are building a new life together. We are 9 month past dday. Before dday, those days did not occur very often.

Every day is a new day and you have to get through today to get to tomarrow. There was a time that I could not even see us having a day like this. I know you were venting and I understand your pain. I know you are in a deep valley that seems to have no end. Trust me, there is an end. You have to go through this valley to get to the other side. Please don't be dismayed by the progress of others because your H doesn't get it. He will, in time.

I know we are not out of deep water yet. I know the rebuilding will take years. I understand that if I give up that there would be no hope for my M. But as I said before the pain is worth the reward. The pain is what reshapes us and molds us into the person God wants us to be.

I understand your frustration. It is difficult to continue to reach out and be rejected. It hurts and it hurts deeply. That hurt and pain are what makes us better people as long as it does not become resentment. All I am saying try not to dwell on the rejection. I am asking you to forgive and forget. Is that not what you want and need from your H?

I see that you just posted and your attitude adjustment is a great step. Please go with it as best as you can. I hope your weekend goes well and that your H will see things differently. Until then, keep hanging onto that roller coaster with both hands!!

Christ's Love,
Roman

hi roman, your afternoon sounds lovely. my first thought was... H and I will NEVER be like that. then i said "bad karen!!!". so now i am saying instead, what a good example to strive for.

thanks for the post. it is always so nice to hear from you. have a wonderful weekend.

FL,

Why don't you two take off one day, have coffee, breakfast, take his camera, and look for pretty things to take pictures of. Learn to slow down, and see things differently. Pick something he likes, heck some early morning or evening when the sun is setting go out to a golf course and look at the beauty of it.

I really enjoy golf courses at those times. I like the sun to NOT be in my eyes when I play, but for walking and seeing beautiful colors and scenary, the evening or early morning are special.

If he is a professional photographer,he must have an eye for beauty, form, and texture, go someplace and let him show you. Enjoy it, discuss it, relax. Someone who enjoys beauty is always a joy to be around especially if you can get them to tell you what they see.

Think about that.

God Bless,

JL

Originally posted by FinallyLearning:


of all your words these are hardest to read... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think you are really sweet, and I like you lots. Keep up the good work.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for as hyper as i was last night and pumped up to see this thru, get my own head on right and stay true to myself... i get home and it all goes OUT THE WINDOW!!! i am not sweet, i am stubborn as a mule.

Sorry, I'm on to you...

You are sweet... I caught a glimpse of the real you on durham's thread...

I am right ... might as well cop to it.

Pep