Sorry, I thought of one more thing. How long will your H enjoy living with OW, her mom, and her child? Or how long will he enjoy living in his apartment? I'm pretty sure my H wouldn't have lasted very long. If you have to do Plan B let the fogged out H of yours experience the bliss of reality. CV

Played,

So sorry for all you're going through. I had my second dday 4/9. It took my Wh 24 hours to decide to end it with OW and stay to work on our marriage. It took another 48 hours for WH to propose sending OW NC letter (all by himself). WH was eager to placate me the first dday 2/13(like a reflex rather than a deliberate decision) and continued to lie about details of the A (it was an EA not a PA bull). I think it's good WH shared with you how contact was maintained.

The more the WS lies to the BS and covers up details of the A the easier it is for them to feel miserable in marriage (cause they lack the basic comfort of honesty), more seperated from their spouse, and pulled closer to the OP. I feel these shared secrets can make it more difficult to keep NC.

WS may know when the A is over, but for those of us who have been betrayed again and again, the only assurance is time and the WS actions. I look for what is different this time. I watch for when WH starts to withdraw and speak in increased FOG (this was when contact began again). The longer he keeps NC the less fog there is.

We are only responsible for our own actions and our own integrity. I don't want to live like a victim and am comfortable with my next steps if the A begins again.

Take care!

Slight thread-jack, here, Played.

CV - my WH had a dream about us just before he left on his cruise. He said there was a tornado coming toward the house, and the kids and I were inside. He was 'dancing' with the tornado, trying to get to us - and couldn't.

He said it was very disturbing. Hello? Subconcious? It's morals calling. Wake the f*** up!!!!

THREAD JACK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Loy, how were you able to let him back in after the 2nd Dday. I am working on my Plan B letter right now. Also, how can you trust he has ended it and is telling the truth. I mean do I need to lead him by the hand like a baby! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I honestly dont think it will take H long in plan B...cus he knows what he wants, he is just very very sick right now...I can see the similarty in drug addicts and such. I will be posting my Plan B letter here soon! I just need to decide which one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ May 11, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Wanting, the dreams my H has had since the A was revealed have been amazing. He even had one before he came clean to me that he told me about. He couldn't figure it out and it was so obvious it was about how he was screwing up our M. But having an A is such an unaware thing to do, so why would they understand their dreams? Dancing with a tornado ready to destroy the family. And he couldn't figure THAT one out?

Anyway, I do love picturing OW as an armadillo!

Alright...

we're getting to the place where the rubber meets the road....

I think you need to take some time....and really really think and reflect.....

on what you want...

the real reasons for wanting him home......
and you're gonna have to battle and face the thoughts of do you want him back JUST so the OW doesn't get him...
to win over her....
and that's normal and painful for every BS to face....
the pain of betrayal no matter the lip service that it's not about the OW>....is a hard hurdle to face and overcome.....it's not about the OP...but it sure feels like it is....

that can you right now let go of the pain and hurt TEMPORARILY of the second betrayal...and this is something to think about....

you are entitled to feel those things...
you are entitled to get from the WS...true regret...
but when you seek and need those things when they are unable to give it sincerely...it hurts again and again and again....

keep in mind that his regret and his sincere sadness over hurting you.....is real....but it is so tangled in with other things...that right now he is too close to the situation to really understand your pain....

can you do this ...(not plan B)...but letting him come home....AND watching him like a hawk..
without being his
jailor
punisher

can you find humanity for him....(and you can answer that any way you need to..without blame...)

but I think you need to ruminate on whether or not you can see past your own anger and hurt and humiliation at the second betrayal to see if what type of environment you can create at home....

and this is NOT blame or judgement...
this is taking care of YOU...and really getting time to thingk..

things get icky for him he leaves.....nice cop out...

I am so tired of cowards who walk away from the (young) children and home...
to take time away
to think
to blah blah blah...

that's more sickening then eating three bowls of HALUSKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

things are icky for you also..
you get the kids
you get the schoool stuff
you get the day to day grind...

BEFORE you decide anything...can you get away..
for some hours
for overnight at a hotel with JUST YOU>....

when is it your turn to escape and think...
cause I think you should before you commit to either plan...

can he
will he
come home tonight...
NO TALK
you leave for the night....

let him ruminate in the mix of things..
and you go find serenity...

you need to think this whole thing thru....

ARK

Mom: here is the link to my 2nd dday post. Apologize for thread jack.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=027800;p=1

During that LONG dday2 weekend I told WH that I could not live with a liar and would not tolerate a lover. If he could not meet these two requirements he could quickly and easily move in with his dad and step mom, or his mother, or with his guy friends. I told him I could sell our home and move in with my parents so I could have support for our children (18 month daughter, the second is due 6/25).

In the end, the shift I saw in my WH 62 hours after dday was dramatic enough for me continue living with WH. WH was so relieved about how there were no more lies and "believed" there was no future with ow. He put together a timeline of the entire A to help me compare his behavior in the past to the present.

After I called ow's parents (she's 24 and lives with them - turns out they already knew but I don't think they knew it was a PA) ow left WH a message breaking it off. WH was already working on his NC letter.

How does anyone know if the A is over? Right now I have decided to not be miserable or afraid. I try to limit relationship conversation to MC or when WH brings it up. When things are tough I just ask myself what can I do today?

If more crap hits the fan I will plan B and implement a full XXX exposure.

Ark, sure I am will to do all of that! BUT only under the circumstances that ends the A...one minute he says he will end it the next he says he cant end it. It seems easy enough to end it with his family.

last night he said that he was willing to end it and even pleaded with me for another chance. Very sincere. When he called later he said he wsn't sure. He actually said he wants both of us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> hahahahahahahaha...are you kidding me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have told him over and over again I am willing and more willing to work on this M IF he ends the A...he doesn't want to. he doesnt' want to burn the bridge. I have to go into Plan B. I cannot take the pain anymore. This is to protect ME. If he is going to have an A, it is not going to be under my roof and under my nose. He has chosen this path and he has to live with the ramifications of it! Period. Until he ends it, I will not have contact with him. The pain is too much. He does love me...I can see it, I really can...and I know he is very remorseful, but he is also addicted...and you can not help an adddict unless they want the hlep. SURE you can force them into rehab, but what happens once they are out and they aren't ready for rehab..they go back to the crack. Same thing here..he wasn't ready, so he went back to the crack.

He knows what he has to do. He has to end contact and quit the place. possibly MOVE away. But, he has to make the decision himself. I am fine today. i am not that angry, I am at peace with my decision. How good I will be, I dont know, but I am ready for this. I will post my letter for all to review. Thanks!