When we say roller coaster we mean roller coaster huh?? I was feeling so postive and holding on to some hope but now...I know my WH read my posts as well as OW. He is still lurking but who cares. Here is how I am feeling...He said to a F that he "does not love me" and when they said well she is your wife he said "not for long" He is a big boy and he can make his own choices. I feel he is only not filing for D because he does not have the money. It hurts so bad to hear that the man I committed my life to does not love me and can only see the bad things in our marriage. He also does not want to work on our relationship and even though he can see changes in me it does not matter. Why can't he stinking see?? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I guess I sit here thinking this is hopeless. What am I holding on to?? Should I just file myself and get it over with?? The pain of his words cuts me like a knife and I am not sure how much more I can take. I am exhausted. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

h&f -

I was wondering if that was her. Interesting. Waaaay better than my supposed "best friend" did for me - I sent her a link to here and told her about NC, and got yelled at.

Yes, the OW in your case does seem sincere.

Well, my Plan A was done from a distance, since H moved out. AND, I was very angry and yelled and screamed a lot.

Finally, after about 2 months, we started MC. As I said, that only lasted 3 sessions. For those 3 weeks, H requested that we have NC. So, only through email and only regarding children and money, did we communicate. Very minimally. H only went to MC, as he put it, to make our D better - more amicable.

So, I was in a type of Plan B, except the business stuff through email, and our 1 hour a week MC. To be honest, though, I needed that more than he did, looking back in my wonderful 20/20 hindsight. Because I had to unplug myself from him. I was just as addicted to being with him, in a way, as he was to the OW.

I had to be forced to not communicate with him. I had to find girlfriends to confide in. I found other things to do. I began finding out who I am. I filled up my life. In fact, when H first came home, I had to squeeze him in! Over this past month, it has gotten better, but I had done a really good job filling up my days and weekends and such.

THAT is when I could finally Plan A effectively. I controlled my anger with exercise, and became the lighthouse. I don't know if you ever read that post by ark. I really identified with it. It was about becoming the warm, welcoming, safe place for the WS to come to when they were lost out in the fog. And the brighter you burn, the better they can see.

And I saw an attorney and learned my rights for a D. I didn't want that, but I wasn't going to dig my head in the sand and pretend it wasn't an option. I realized what I would have to cut out, how much I would have to make, and that the boys and I could stay in our home. That was a huge relief. I know your sitch is different with your house, but you get the idea.

I kept reading here how some BS's actually got to the point where they could listen to their WS's talk about their grief over losing the OP. I thought I could never do that. But the FWS's that posted here kept saying that that single act of kindness and compassion for them is what helped turn them around.

Well, before H came home, I could listen, with a pleasant look on my face (biting the heck out of the inside of my cheek), to H telling me he knew how hurt I was, because he was just as hurt that OW was rejecting him.

Ug. That was so hard. But, not giving him someone to argue with, someone to justify to, I believe allowed him to look inside himself for his answers. He couldn't focus on convincing me anymore, because I accepted it. Maybe not deep down did I believe he loved her and had never loved me. But I accepted that that is how HE thought he felt at the time, and he deserved validation for his feelings just as I did for mine.

After he walked out on the first MC, he was determined to get a D. That is when his IC invited me to their session, and he became our MC (and still is, BTW). We are now learning to effectively communicate ourselves. It is amazing the different way a message is perceived when you say "I" instead of "You."

And that is where H first began to believe that the changes in me were not false, were not temporary. That is when he realized that I understood my responsibility in the state our marriage was in pre-A. NOT for the A, but for the M. And that I, too, wanted better than what we had.

That is when everything turned around. He began asking me to lunch. Dinner. Movies. All with the boys, too. It was platonic. And it was soothing. All of us driving in the van, listening to favorite music, just basking in the wonderfulness and familiarity of family.

In hindsight, typing all of this to you, it seems like a story set up for success. It sure did not feel like that at the time. It was scary, discouraging, frustrating, all the things you are feeling now. I truly believe that by following the principles on this site, and the advice of the vets, you have the best chance of recovery. There were times I posted about doing crazy things: sending letters, initiating D, wanting to just lay down and never get up.

And time and time again my MB friends picked me up, dusted me off, turned me around, and sent me off with a small push (sometimes a shove, and I think once someone booted me in the a$$, but I didn't see who it was [I have my suspicions, though!]). I will be forever grateful.

Well, I am off to Disneyland in the morning with the family. I'll be back next Friday. This topic will either be immensely large, or off the board. So, if you have a specific question, call me out in 8 days!

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

Thanks for your story, while I think it is very similiar to mine I am still so down that I am conteplating filing for D myself.

I think what the OW has done for me is great. My WH does not care at this point, doesn't believe it. I don't believe that he will come out of the fog. He truly believes that he never loved me and that our whole 8 years of marriage was a crock. That hurts to the point of no end. We never talked about D or anything of the sort until the A. I am not sure if he is still in the fog or if he just truly does not love me at all. It is hard to imagine that you can have two children, home, great family vacations, great times together and your WH does not love you.

I am waiting to see how his return from vacation is but I believe he has only not filed for D because he does not have the money (remember he quit his job and everything else about his life). He told his F that I won't be his wife much longer. I have never seen him act like such a jack a$$. He has always been the most kind and caring husband.

If he comes back with the same attitude I think I need to file. How can I continue to hold on to a man that has nothing but hate and contempt for me?? It seems fair to let him go huh?? I think I have made many changes to myself since the whole A began, changed the things that were issues in the M but he is not willing to accept them.

I would love anyone's thoughts on me filing. I do still love my WH with all of my heart and all that I am but when do we let go??

Hope, you are FAR from a point where you need to let go. You have been in Plan A for 2 weeks. There is lots of time for things to turn around.

Your H is saying the same things that EVERY WS in the throes of an addiction says. It is nothing we don't hear every day. And it is FOG. You simply must not react to it.

His state of mind is very temporary, but divorce IS NOT. Your H is very angry right now because he is in withdrawal. He is also very angry at you because of lovebusters. But you have changed that and it will take time for him for really believe the changes in you.

What kind of marriage did you have before the affair? Were there needs in the marriage that weren't being met that would have led to this? What do you think they were? How was SF? Companionship? Did you treat him with respect?

ML -

How was my marriage before the A?? We were happy but needs were not filled. SF was a huge issue. As a child I had an experience that haunted me and SF was a huge problem. I have always had trouble with LB but I have seen a counselor and have dealt with both of these issues and my WH knows that. I believe I have shown him these things. When we were in FL he saw that I had improved LB and SF but when we returned home he went back to "not in love with me". What if I hold on to this hope and nothing changes? Is it common for WS to be so angry?? I mean a completly different person angry??

I know that this is the fog and that he is angry. Is it because he sees the OW giving up and he blames me?? I love him so much and it hurts me so much to hear that he never loved me. That kills me inside and out. I was staying so strong but the words cut me like a knife. I never wanted divorce and still don't but I am feeling hopeless. He will hardly speak to me so how to I show him good Plan A??

Now Hope, you know darn good and well that its not true he "never loved you." It is very typical for the WS to rewrite history in order to justify the affair. And it is very typical that they direct their anger towards the BS when they are withdrawing. Just understand that this is the FOG of addiction and it will roll off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What if I hold on to this hope and nothing changes? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What will you do if you DON'T? Its not like you have a good alternative right now, Hope. Stay the course and quit panicking. His anger will go away, so don't react to it. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

I will have nothing if I give up hope. I know that. It is so hard to hear those words. His family and mine tell me I should just give it up. Who would want him like this?? He should be over this by now lalalalalala. Anyway I start feeling like they are right. Although in my heart that withdrawl does not begin until they are out of contact with OW and he talked to her last week so he is still there and angry.

He says I won't be his wife much longer but he has told me he wants to remain friends for the kids. I guess that is a start. If we are friends then I can show him a good plan A huh??

I appreciate the hope and caring that I get from everyone here.

Withdrawl SUCKS!!! And they say it can last up to 6 months?? Wow??

BTW in Plan A can I call WH just to say Hi if I am not pushing?? I have pretty much just stayed away from him. If he calls to talk to kids I will chat with him but that is it. I read a post yesterday about a BS who called her husband just to say say Hi and be friends.

Is that ok or are you just supposed to leave them alone and be pleasant when they come around??

Take advantage of the short moments you see each other, and be as frendly as possible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Under these cercumstances its almost imposible, but friends is a Great idea, it was the stone that tiped the scale and brought me home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

To Success,

FCalunga

HOS(37)me
WS(38)
M17
dd 12/7/03
NC 3/26/04
3 kids
In Recovery

So no phone calls huh?? I so want to show him the changes I have made. I want to be his friend and show him that it is safe with me.

H&F -

When my OW told my WH that she no longer wanted to be that "woman" - the one to break-up a marriage, have his family always "hate" her (his family LOVES me & she knows this), take his daughter away from him - He was angry at me, she stated things like BB2 told everyone everything, no one will judge me for me, they'll only see what BB2 told them. So even, in her break-up w/ him she blamed me. (She blames me for spreading her legs - didn't know I had that power).

But my point is, my WH was so angry at first. But w/in weeks after discussing this, he said I was not to blame, just lashed out at me and was sorry. She had made some points that were true in her disection of WH and they hit him hard - made him look at himself - pushing him further into depression.

My WH told MIL on two different occassions that he wanted a DV - then called her later to say he was mad at me at the time - didn't want a DV. Also, money was always the reason he couldn't file - but yet he bought a $4,700 dollar guitar & your WH is on vacation, HMMMMMMMMMMM. All he has to do & I showed this to my WH was go the the FREE self help site at every courthouse. In California it's $302.50 to file. Not that expensive. So do you see my point - there is something keeping him from filing!

Two weeks is not a long time. As many old time MBers keep referencing & it has finally sunk into my thick skull - this is a marathon, not a sprint. Time is on our side, Reality will prevail over Fantasy!! I believe God only gives us what we can handle.

I also believe that God gives us only what we can handle. I am a very Godly woman. My husband is on an expense paid vacation but in Michigan it is only 150.00 to file on your own so I would think he could come up with it. I was hoping he was not filing because he was still confused but that is not my impression.

I know it is a slow process but Dv is so final and scary. Especially when you still love the person. I am Plan Aing to the best of my ability and making changes in myself.

OW has been great and I hope it knocks WH out of his fog, like it did yours. Did you WH ever tell you how he never loved you and lalalala?? Fog talk is killing me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I wrote OW an email telling her that I forgive her because I do (God would want that from me). She is regretful for what she has done and is salvaging her marriage. I hope it works out for her.

My WH told me that he hadn't loved me for two years when this whole mess began - which meant that it was when our daughter was born! He also said he married me because everyone told him he was going to lose the best thing that ever happened to him. We dated 6 years before me got married. Then he told the OW he never wanted our daughter. She in turn called my mother and stated that he never wanted me or our daughter & why didn't I just file for DV. She then called me and told me I would never leave him because I was a coward & afraid to be alone.

He now says he never meant any of that, but at the time and even now - it hurts like HELL! But now he says he never saw life w/out me & could never DV me. But in the same breath, he loves me still, but not the way I should be loved. Things are improving and I hope my going to live w/ my parents for awhile in my makeshift Plan B will get him to realize what he is missing. He said only a few days ago that he hopes he misses me like crazy!! I see this as a positive sign.

Also, in the midst of affair, my WH said before A, I was not always "nice" to him (even though I did everything for him & told him how much I loved him daily), he felt that I wanted more than him, that I was self-sufficient. But because of my Plan A, he noticed all the changes and maybe the A woke me up to what I would lose & I realized that I wanted him.

About the phone thing - I never really call him - I had let him do it all. I let him call me when he wanted to talk - it was better that way. He told me sometimes when he was mad at me or at himself, he would call and my voice soothed him, calmed him down. So always answer SWEETLY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I always answer sweetly but he never calls just to talk. He will call the kids and chat with me a little and I try to make polite conversation with him.

I have made numberous changes and I think he sees some of them but he is still in the fog and can't seem much else. I love him very much still. I HOPE he comes around. I get some much hope and support from this site. I am afraid I am getting addicted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope, I just have to chime in here. Plan A, right? call him! No reason you shouldn't...Plan B, no calling him. call him to say good morning or good night or just to see if he is feeling ok today? I was just thinking of you, so just wanted to say Hi...I know you are busy so I wont keep you long...that is all you need to say. hang in there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Now Hope, you know darn good and well that its not true he "never loved you." It is very typical for the WS to rewrite history in order to justify the affair. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very true. I rembember how shocked I was when I stumbled upon the love letters that I had written my wife. Some were from when we were dating. She kept them all. Anyway, at the time I found them I had convinved myself that I never really loved her . . . you know the drill. I sat there stunned and began to mourn the loss of the guy who had those wonderful feeling about his wife. If someone had asked me at the time if I evern had strong feeling for my wife I would have said no. I was certainly wrong.

The feeling can come back.

In the beginning of our "rollcoaster ride", I did call - sometimes I think it irritated him. So I backed off - it left him wondering. Then he would call and say stupid things like - Were you trying to reach me? Or Is everything okay haven't heard from you? All of this while he was at work - remember he was still at home, so a few hours away from home and he was wondering. I on the other hand was a SAHM and had way too many hours to think about our situation, I would look at the phone and wish it would ring!

About this site, I asked once if this could be considered an addicition and Believer responded back "Yes". I read so many stories hear & I thank God my story is not as bad as others. I have found alot of strength here. It's nice to see a place that believes in marriage.

My mother asked a few days ago, why I put up with all of this? The church would think I did a good job of trying to repair my marriage, but enough was enough. I responded that for better or for worse, meant a lifetime not 14 months. She said he hurt you so bad - the worst offense. I said yes but who was I to judge him, for that matter anyone had no right to judge - Jesus said the first person w/out sin can cast the first stone. My mother felt so bad that - me the betrayed had to remind her that we are all human.

I am going to try calling him when he gets back from vacation. Just a little to be nice. Now that I know he is done with OW it is a start huh?? I just want to make sure I do a good Plan A and not push him too much.

I also have all the old love letters that my WH wrote me through out our marriage. He was the sweetest man. He would not believe that he even read them if he saw them right now. Does anyone know of a story where the OW cut it off with the WH and he still wanted to be in the A???

Betrayed - My mother thinks I have went through enough as well. She is very religious but does not believe that God would want this. You know that A is the only reason God permits D. Well that is true but God also hates D. It is very clearly stated so I believe that God would want you to try with all your heart to fix what is broken.

Well I just got back from the pool but 2 hrs before I went called WH - seemed to be in abad mood - picked a fight & of course, his weapon of choice his tounge - stated that I was crazy (usually called me this when he talked to OW) & couldn't wait for me to leave. He'll probably call before he comes home to apoligize but at this point I am soooo upset, I feel like giving up.

But then I'll see him and want to work it out. I am going to have to be very good in Plan B - completely dark. This war of words is just too painful.

My OW broke it off - I think that is the norm - they usually realize that there is baggage w/ "dating" a married man before the foolish WHs. My OW told him on 11/10/03 she didn't want anything. He said he initiated all calls - she just called back. She told him while they were sleeping together that he was pathetic - didn't help my WH to get his head out of the clouds. But what kind of woman sleeps w/ a man if she feels that way about him?