Oh, don't get me wrong. Mini and I don't sit around psycho analyzing mom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I try to keep things simple and safe for him. But for me, understanding as much as possible about her and the place she is in is important. It's the clearest bead I can get on the future. Yipes. That's a scary thought.

As for the co-parenting in the same town, well if she's not ready to commit to being a family, that is what's going to happen. And if that's the case, it won't be hidden from Mini. But I don't have the resources to get her set up before she gets here. That is something she will have to do on her own. But she has to be here for even that to happen, which is why her staying with us on her arrival is the plan.

It's hardly an ideal scenario. I know. But the main thing is to get her here.

If worse comes to worse, and her stay is temporary, Mini will see that even though we will not be married, we can still be civil with each other. And if that's the route this is going to take, it won't be an extended stay. And that's for Mini's sake and mine too.

dewt

Hello Dewt,
I know you are not in the best state this morning waiting for news fron Dylan as to what she has done with Ow, but i do have to play devil's advocate here. I have to agree with ark, I too am worried about Dylan moving in with you and even though you will make every effort to make things clear to mini that it may be a temporary measure, he will continue to see things from a child's eye... he will witness his parents living in the same space and for him, this will be the sameas having his family "together"... for her to leave to find her own place afterward will only crush him. Dewt, I Know how hard you are working and praying on getting your family back, I know how much you love Dylan, I know how much you miss her and want her back in YOUR life. I have this gut feeling that you want her to move in (regardless of the effect this has on mini if she should leave again) in the hopes that even for a temporary period, she may see the consistency of the new life and improvvements you have made, and in the hopes that this would win her over so to speak. I can sure understand and appreciate this if this is the case, but it IS selfish in the sense that you would be doing this for YOU first. Think of MINI first Dewt, as I know you do, but try to think things out more clearly from a child's mind point of view. Is it possible to postpone Dylan's move until you & she can come up with a bit of money to help her find her own place. Do you have any friends or family who can lend you money for this purpose? I know that you two are already in a fair amount of debt, but this is just money... the debt that you will have to pay in consequence to mini feeling rejected all over again, is one that neither you or Dylan may ever be able to reconcile. Please Dewt, don't take this as a 2x4, I am genuinely concerned for you and your LONGTERM relationship with your son.

Peace,
Odyssey

dewt -

Sorry you are having to do all of this by yourself. It must be very hard to be alone with all of your problems, and now having to provide emotional support for your children.

I raised my boys by myself, and it was not easy. There father left and had very little contact - mostly presents sent for Christmas. But what helped the most is building new routines, and a new family.

Since he was not available, I put extra effort into doing family things. I taught them to fish, sports, etc. We spent many happy hours fishing. I packed a lunch or dinner and off we went.

I'm concerned about you getting your needs met. A parent alone has to give and give and give. Are you doing anything with friends, or anything for yourself? You need to have something to fill your needs, so you can keep filling your kids needs. What are you doing to take care of Dewt?

I'm not really waiting for news from Dylan. I've been trying to reach her all morning, but doing it in such a way that Mini is not aware that there is no answer... I think my gut has all the news it needs. But hey, that's no big surprise here. She never said that OP was out of the picture. Anyway, I'm still trying hard not to jump to any conclusions.

As for the debt issue, no there's really no one to go to for a loan. I'm not sure I would anyways. The bottom line is that for me to be there in all the ways that I need to for my son, I have to be 'together'. Getting on top of my finances is one of my main 'life issues'. I'm at the point where debt is not crushing me and to take on another one would put me back huge steps... not just financially, but emotionally. Not only that, but if she is not willing to stop this insanity, I'm going to need to pay for a mediator or a lawyer or something to protect myself and my son from any more damage and to ensure the stability that we will need to begin a real healing process. Man, this sucks so bad.

Believe me, I'm not thrilled about this situation. I'd love nothing more for an ideal solution to this whole mess, but sadly that is not in my hands. It looks like I'm going to be forced to find the least worst answer. Anyway, we do have a talk coming up this weekend and all these issues will be brought up and dealt with then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

dewt

Dewt, I'm sorry, but in your response you did not address the issue about mini & fulfilling your needs over his needs in allowing Dylan to come back into your home before you resolve any of your marriage issues... You avoided the subject completely which leads me to believe that you are ducking the truth! YOU have to face what is going on and what you will be putting mini thru!!! Rsignation to a crappy situation is not something your child desrves. Resignation to allowing Dylan to come into your home without any commitment to work on your marriage is not what your child deserves. Resignation to repeating the sins of the father's in allowing your child to live abandonment and rejection, is not what your child deserves. Unfortunately it IS all in yout hands and you are responsible for a vulnerable young boy over and above your own needs. Your need to have Dylan come into your home in order for her to see the changes in you and HOPEFULLY come around, comes only second to mini and what he needs to live without abandonment issues multiplied and effecting him for the rest of his life... FACE THE ISSUE DEWT AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DO THE RIGHT THING !!! NO COMPROMISES, NO EXCUSES...THE CHILD'S LIFE IS NI YOUR HANDS !!!

I'll be praying for you,
Peace,
Odyssey

Oops, not trying to dodge any issues...

The idea behind having Dylan come here is first and foremost to get her nearer to her son. She has already been here to visit enough times that she has already seen for herself the changes that I've made and have been working on and have maintained over the past 5 months. So that's not why I want her here.

His needs right now revolve around having his family reunited with positive goals in place and positive, consistent action backing those goals. Failing that, the next best thing as far as I can see is to at least have regular access to both parents.

And also extremely important is some element of security. If mom is only going to be here temporarily, well he will be informed of that and while it is hardly the best case scenario, I think is a step up from not having her here at all.

My needs are secondary. To a certain extent... I cannot compromise my needs to the point where I become crippled in my ability to provide for him finacially and emotionally. And I also differentiate between 'needs' and 'desires'.

As for our marriage issues, we will be addressing that this weekend. Enough is enough. To be sure there is no magic, instant solution, but this is starting to drag on and I feel will continue to do so until someone takes a stand and says enough is enough.

Even if she is only here temporarily and uses this place as a stepping stone towards establishing her presence on a more permanent basis, that will go a long way towards addressing the abandonement issues as she will be closer and there will be more regular contact between her and Mini.

So I think I tackled the issue here. No excuses. But unfortunately I don't think any of this can be handled without compromises on both our parts.

dewt

sorry to hear that you are not getting the greater picture dewt.

I forgot to ask; are you using mini to entice her to stay? Do your own needs factor into any of this?

Dewt,

JMHO, but if your WW comes back w/out a commitment to work on marriage and may only be there temporiarily - wouldn't that cause more damage to Mini-Dewt? Would it be feasiable for her to get an apt close by & re-establish a relationship w/ her son & then you slowly?

Also, there are camps for children who are dealing w/ divorce, separation, etc. They usually have daycamps on Saturdays. My BIL's son (8yrs) has participated in this & it has been beneficial.

I'm trying to keep the bigger picture in mind. I'm running low on options though. As far as using Mini to entice her... well a child is a good enough reason to give %100 to a marriage. But no. I'm not 'using' him. In fact, if it weren't for him, I'd likely have cut my emotional losses long ago. Nobody deserves to be put though this.

I'm doing my absolute best to keep my desires out of it. If I have needs to be able to continue functioning I have to adress them. Finances, for example. I have to eat. I have to pay bills. So no, I cannot set her up in her own apartement. I have a need to know the direction that this is going to go when she comes. And that need is tied in with Mini's as are a lot of other issues.

If she's unwilling to commit to recovery, then yes, the best bet would be for her to move straight to a new place of her own. Unfortunately, I can't see any way to make that happen. Having her stay there would also be bad because a) there's another promise broken, b) he'd then be without Dad, and c) between the price of gas and the wear and tear on the van involved, that kind of commuting is extremely impractical.

As for camps, we are in a very small town so I don't have high hopes for any specialized camps. There must be something though, which I will look into this week coming up.

dewt

Dewt -

Does she work? This is her choice - can't she come up w/ some money? I know about the finances being tight. I am moving to Massachusetts, living w/ my parents & hoping WH, who is remaining here in California, can clear his head & we can get back on our feet financially. My WH asked for a Dv on 05/03 & when I began packing on 05/04 - now,he says he only wants to take a "break".

About our daughter, I am looking into books on the subject - she is only 3yrs old - too young for any groups. Maybe you can a children's book dealing w/ this topic - search amazon or borders.

Keep Strong!
BB2

Yeah, she works, but it's not enough to handle all this.

Regardless of the choices she makes, and continues to make, I have my son to consider and strive to keep his best interests at heart regardless of how I'm feeling at any given moment.

But the line is getting pretty thin, and the end of the rope is near.

My son has asked me call her place half a dozen times this morning. I was trying to do it on the sly, but the gig is up and now he knows she never made it home last night. It's hard to hide things when he's hovering over you.

I'm taking him out now... we have to go and do something to take BOTH our minds off this.

This is absolutely insane.

dewt

Well, 9:15pm. Still no word.

My son went to bed crying for his mom.

I'm getting less angry and more worried. It's not like her to miss talking to him for this many days...

Just an update:

She's home and safe. I got the call late last night.

Thanks all for hanging around and helping me through this.

dewt

Hi dewt,

When I read your posts I have to pay close attention to who you are referring to--yourself or mini--when you're talking about abandonment, missing her, etc. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

I know it's hard when our kids have some of the same issues we do with a Wayward, and it's even harder to determine if we are unintentionally projecting our issues onto them because that takes being brutally honest with ourselves while evaluating our every word, action, and attitude around our kids. They pick up so much from us and it is our responsibility to be aware and vigilant. We need to help them deal with their issues, not make it more intense or "share" ours with them.

You're already improving in other areas that directly affect mini like employment, cooking, laundry, homework etc so I think you'd be willing to take a look at this too. Will you mention the possible unintentional projecting of your issues onto mini to your counselor? We all need a checks and balances system especially when it comes to our kids.

Take care dewt

These are interesting points. I'm actually going to go back and read some of my posts with that in mind as a possibility.

I grew up with only one parent and as she had to work two jobs to feed, clothe and house my brother and I, it's debatable as to wether I even has one parent. So I may very well be projecting, but it isn't neccesarily my pain I'm putting onto my son, but the issues that I know evolve out of situations like this.

In talks with Mini, I am upbeat and positive. Not making promises I can't keep or anything like that, but I try to keep a proactive and positive attitude going.

Anyway, I certainly will mention it to the counsellor.

Hadda be quick cause Mini is still up and wants me to play with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt

Hey Dewt.
Glad to hear that Dylan got home safe and sound on Sunday, but what happenned? Did she talk to the OW about NC? How are you fairing today?

Peace,
Odyssey

Well, I'm not exactly sure. I was actually trying not to ask for fear of lovebusting but at the same time really wanted to know and did ask, but I didn't get a real clear answer. My understanding is that she got stranded somewhere with a friend of OW, walked a lot of miles and worked on the letter for OW.

The letter is not a no contact letter. As far as I can gather it's a "good-bye" letter. I don't know what it says because WW has not/will not let me read it.

Still no recovery commitment from Dylan except that once she gets here she will see a counsellor who should be able to help her make a decision.

We are suppossed to talk in depth this weekend. I wouldn't say the phone conversation was all that great. I had to continuously ask her to stop being so aggressive and confrontational. I keep thinking of that part in SAA where Su was treating John like he was the one who had the affair and that's what this reminds me of.

I'm pretty frustrated.

dewt

Dewt,

I know how hard it is not to ask about whether the WS has asked for N/C with OP. I've been in that situation a couple times with my WH. He promised it was coming (gave me the exact weekend) in March, and again in April. Then he got very angry when I asked him (because, of course, it didn't happen.)

You want so much to have your hopes up, and then they get dashed.

I know you haven't been the perfect H, but from what you post I agree that you're doing much better. You're there for your sons.

As for projecting your feelings on them, I am VERY guilty of doing that to my own kids. I know how difficult it is to not do it, and my kids are older than yours and much more able to understand what is going on, but it's still not right. I'm trying harder now, but still am very guilty of it from time to time. And my IC has nailed me for it more than once.

I am concerned for you (and for minidewt) when/if your WW comes home. I considered asking (begging?) my WH to come home when he gave up his apartment initially, in hopes that having him back home might help him want to rebuild the marriage. I didn't do it, because the red flags just kept waiving in my brain (lots of them, great big ones, high in the air) and I imposed the N/C, no drinking clause.

I feel guilty about it on one hand. Maybe I missed a valuable opportunity. But on the other hand, I feel I set appropriate boundaries to help prevent the kids and I from getting hurt, and looking back, I think it was the right decision.

I know you are short of money. I am not exactly wealthy, so understand financial limitations. But seriously, I would consider trying to work something out to have your WW come to your town but live in a different place, even if it was for the first couple months, just to 'ease' back into things. If she seems to want to work on the marriage, then she could move on in. I am concerned like the others that if she moves in, and then moves back out, that even though you've been very honest with minidewt about there being no guarantees that mom and dad will stay together, he will still be more hurt if she moves in and then things don't work and she moves back out.

Lots of babbling. Too much caffiene today. Full of opinions (or full of something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

LL

Yeah, I've been weighing the same thing. Not just for minidewt's sake either, though that is a big part of it.

Part of me is really dying here. Not the part of me that cares for her... and I'm not even sure how to put it...

But her unrepentant attitude is starting to really do something to me. She has hurt me so badly and seems not to care in the least. In conversations, she slips so easily into agressive and antagonistic attidudes, as if I was the one who engineered all this.

She took the time to write a significant letter to OW, who, in my opinion willingly participated in destroying a family, and for me all she has is irritation. I'm deeply hurt by this because I'm the one who has been taking care of our son, waiting for almost half a year, and biting my tongue... I feel like I'm the one who deserves a letter... I'm the one who really cares for her and loves her...

I just can't wrap my head around this.

When I try, I start to hate her. That scares me.

God forbid she should come here and bring that attitude with her. And I'm talking about ME here, not mini.

We are supposed to talk this weekend. But I don't know how much good that will do. I can't force or demand her to show some respect or sympathy.

I don't even know if I want anything to do with anyone incapable or unwilling to show respect or sympathy.

And don't get me wrong... I've been dealing with these feelings for 7 months now. But they used to be flashes, lasting a couple of hours or a day at the most. Lately, they've been lingering much longer.

I don't know her anymore. I don't know what she's capable of. I don't trust her.

And I don't know what to do about that.

I don't want to feel this way. I want to believe that everything will be alright. But I know that it won't unless we both want it to be. She doesn't. Or at least she's not acting like it. I'm starting to feel like I'm not sure I have the stregnth to keep this up much longer.

I may not be perfect, but I've never in my life intentionally hurt anyone. And the times I have hurt another person (and there've been lots of times), I've been overwhelmed with shame, remorse and a desire to make things right. I used to think that was something we had in common. I used to really believe that she had a pure and good heart. Now I don't know. I don't understand.

I really feel I deserve better than this.

Even if I am imperfect.

dewt