Dewt,

I wonder about the difference between 'getting strong' and 'getting fed up'. It's something I struggle with a lot lately. I'm wondering where you sit on this one.

In my case, I am starting to think that in order for me to "get strong", I have to "get fed up" first. I feel stronger as a person and more able to live independently if I need to. But that has happened as I've become more fed up about this A continuing on without any remorse on his part, and in my face, and putting me 2nd for months.

That caused me to really look back honestly at our M over the last 19 years. At first, during the shock and the initial loss, all I remembered were the good things--vacations (and frankly they were rather tense with him, but we saw lots of neat things and had some laughs), dinners out, special days where we really did get along.

As things have drug on and his bad side comes out, it has triggered a lot of memories of how he wasn't so nice after all, and how the good days in all honestly were greatly outnumbered by the bad days.

I know this because my kids have also become more calm and easier to get along with since he moved out. It was affecting all of us. I don't want that back.

I would only be willing to rebuild if I KNEW it would be better. And who can guarantee that. He'd have to come into it with a totally different heart.

LL

SHMI,

And MHO, if God didn't want you to D, he wouldn't allow it to happen. Perhaps he is closing this door for you, only to open a window.

What if it's really Satan opening the window and I fall out on my head???!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LL

LL,

Tke your time and wait. There is no hurry. I think I must follow your steps, get fed up, then feel strong. I will try to think more of bad days to outnumber the good days.

Since WH left Tu. night, he didn'y show up and no calls, but that give me some pre Plan B excersice. But my depress symptom comes back. I feel very nervourrs since yesterday. How I miss some few days I felt good. I am sure it will come, just a matter of time.

LL, be strong. You are doing a good job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've been asking God for answers. Now WH has the accident, has no transportation, and may be ending the A. I'm asking myself "Is this where God wants me to take him back home because we have 'for better or worse' vows, or even though his A may end, is the unfaithfulness that happened still grounds for leaving him if I decide I don't or can't reconcile with him? What if he asks my forgiveness. Do I have to take him back?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe God is not working in your life, but rather working in your WH's. Perhaps he wants you to stay just where you are, and he is giving WH a chance to look at his life. Maybe part of looking at his life is that you DON'T take him back. It seems to be shaking him that he left you for OW, and now OW is leaving and he can't exactly come home.

My suggestion, and one I received when I was having a problem deciding on whether I had the right to ask H to make some changes before I would invite him back home...this is a golden opportunity for you to ask for, and receive any changes in your M. You have been bullied into accepting SO MUCH, and now it's time for YOU to ask for what you want.

Your WH has bullied you into thinking his way was the only way that things should go in the M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for the abuse statement someone made, in fairness to him, while he can be what would be considered very verbally abusive, I am somewhat to blame because I rarely put my foot down and stick up for myself anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SOMEWHAT TO BLAME???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

What??? It is NEVER a person's fault that they are abused, no matter how much you think you pushed him into it. It was your WH's choice to treat you the way you have been treated. He has manipulated you, bullied you, gotten angry, and generally trained you into accepting every bit of nasty HIM. Youi are seeing what life is not out from under his thumb, and I don't begrudge you not wanting to get back under it...

He has probably not been happy with his behavior either, but has not wanted or been able to change. Just to throw this out to you, it will be harder for him to change his habits if he moves back in. You owe it to him to keep him away so he can work on himself...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know he sees it as drunken stupidity, but technically it is also unfaithfulness even though there is no emotional bond and it was a one-night thing, and I don't want to have to look at and associate with the person it happened with.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One night thing? Yeah, right, a one-night thing that began as a friendship (EA) and at the very least is continuing as a friendship (EA), if not more. Emotional bond? She's giving him marital advice, how sick is that?

You are beautiful and strong, and too sane for this messed up situation the WH would love to have you a part in. You can wait for him to starighten out and come back or live apart, or you can invite him back, and things will PROBABLY get worse, or D him now. Are there other options regarding your M I'm not seeing? I'm sure there are.

Right now, just get him out of the house and back to the camper. Let him wallow in missing the OW and you. Take one day at a time, don't think about the future too much...especially about his actions and motives. Make plans for yourself and your kids but don't presume to know what his actions will be. Take things as they come, you'll know when it is God's time to do things...

I can't add much to SHMI's excellent post except to say that a person is victim ONCE, after that she is a volunteer. So I agree LL has endured years of abuse, but she volunteered for it.

Hey LostnHurt

It sounds like you are going through a VERY tough time right now. maybe I've missed it, have you started a post? If not, start a post and describe your story, I'd love to hear it and help, and I'm sure there are others that could come too.

Left Tuesday? This has GOT to be a tough time for you <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Melody,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I agree LL has endured years of abuse, but she volunteered for it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually agree with your statement. This is why I don't pin much abuse blame on WH, and why I don't whine about being a pitiful "abused wife". I chose to stay in the situation. I did not like it. I prayed for it to change. But no one held a gun to my head and made me stay. It was more that I did (do) love him despite the abuse, and that I made commitments before God and the Bible does not allow for D on the grounds of abuse, so I never considered it an option except for his A 12 years ago (when I did file D and then didn't end up going through with it), and now...

LL

SHM,

Thank you for asking. I 've been here for a long time. My thread is in Soon to be in Plan B. Please help me.

I said WH left Tu, he did not leave for good. His pattern is disappear for couple days and reappear again, all his personal belonging are still here. He does house work and participate family activities. But I think I am getting fed up and very close to let him move out. Please read my thread. I had a long thread in Just found out, title is Am I in Plan A? It has about 1000 posts.

Regarding LNH's threads...

She has several but her current one on GQII is "Soon to be in Plan B" and she also has a LOT of history posted in Plan A/B called "Am I in Plan A?"

LL

LL, thank you. I feel really bad these couple days. I am working hard on it. How I wish to reach your stage.

I would say to hold on to yourself a little bit, since you feel the peace and calm now, it maybe good to go to Plan B a little while, then make the decision when you really get GOD's answer. Love and hugs.

ladies (and gentlemen) check out my new thread "doing what i can for as long as i can....." i have listed some websites that i have found to be a Godsend to me during this time. especially someone w/the name "lordslady" needs to check it out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . prayers to all

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Melody,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I agree LL has endured years of abuse, but she volunteered for it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually agree with your statement. This is why I don't pin much abuse blame on WH, and why I don't whine about being a pitiful "abused wife". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you don't and I have always admired that about you. You have always been very accountable about your choices.

New news:

WH just called. Wanted to know how long I was working. Wanted to know the situation with the cars tonight (he's borrowing DS's car today). We talked about this and he kept hinting that he needed to go to the camper to pick some things up and finally he just came out and said, "So, am I coming to the house again tonight, or are you comfortable with that?"

My fear realized--he may be ready to move back in and just move on with things, and to skip over working through the A, N/C or the drinking. (He didn't say that, but certainly didn't bring any of them up either).

This is where I had to pull together every ounce of strength I've gained and now pray I did the right thing because I just pushed him clear away to the next planet, I think.

I told him I was not comfortable with him coming home and that it would be better if he went back to his friends. He said, "I called Andy (truly a friend of BOTH of ours--best man at our wedding) today and he said he thought we were getting back together." (Guilt trip...)

I told him I wasn't saying it was impossible to ever get back together but that there was a LOT to work though and I felt that if he'd not wrecked the truck and had OW moving away all at the same time, he probably wouldn't be wanting to come back.

He then informed me that OW might NOT be moving to Ames after all (hmmmm...he's either talked to her or she's left yet another message on his phone).

I won't bore you all with the whole conversation. My stomach was in knots because I feel like I'm going against God, and that maybe he's brought WH back to me and I'm supposed to welcome him home and let God help us work through our issues. (But who was it who explained the definition of insanity? If I let him come back again without boundaries and changes in place, I will get the same results I got 12 years ago--maybe worse, because at least then he was the one pursuing me and promising it'd never happen again and he voluntarily quit drinking in order for me to call off the D).

I'm just too scared right now to take him back. Then I said, I didn't know where his heart was, and he commented something about with this turn of events, that it would be going somewhere it shouldn't. (I truly hope that means just back to OW and not suicide or anything. That's a big fear of mine with him, with his addictions and his unstable emotions. I'd never forgive myself if I walked away from him and he took his own life. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

Basically I keep reiterating the same thing--that this A has really hurt me. That I could have taken him back in November after the first P/A incident with no problem, or in December, or even in March. But then he kept promising me it was ending, and promising, and it never ended. I told him I believe he intended to play it out until the last second, and then expected me to be there waiting for him to return. Told him that after the first A 12 years ago, I wasn't going to do it again. And then I did. But I DON'T want to do it again a 3rd time, and I'm not convinced I won't if he comes back right now.

Then he brought up my incident of 7 years ago and said, "Why didn't you tell me 7 years ago that our marriage was so bad?" (Okay, at least he apparantly realizes that it really was in critical condition at that time.)

I told him I DID on numerous occasions over the years tell him I felt we needed counseling and that I was concerned about the state of our marriage and our growing apart and being more "roommates" that lovers, but he always assured me that everything was fine. Even when our SF dropped WAY off over the last couple years and I raised concerns, he said it was fine. Then he walked out on us for OW. He didn't really have much of a comment. If his memory works at all, he knows I'm telling the truth. He's the one who hates counselors and who never wanted to see one, or see our pastor.

So what do I do now? I am hurting really bad right now (tears welling in my eyes as I type <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ) because I know I hurt him. But I don't want to do something that is going to screw up my life and the kids' lives if it's not the right thing to do.

Confusion...again!

LL

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

{{{{{{{{{{{{LL}}}}}}}}}}}

I really feel the hurt. I can't imagine I will have to go through this. Please stay calm, pray to the Lord for a clear mind. Then sit down with him to set up some boundaries. He has to agree and follow those conditions to come back.

I think I am closer to PLan B.

LNH,

I know I haven't been in a Plan B, (or a Plan A really anymore) but I am truly more comfortable and at peace right now in my non-Plan B with him away than I am with the thought of him coming back home.

Maybe not comforting, and I know you don't want to go there. You seem to have a lot of love left for your WH, so I know it's hard. But if it ever does come to your doing a Plan B, I really do believe you will find peace, too. It was hard for me to believe when I read months ago about Octobergirl, and Zizzy, and Believer, and then Hopeful and how peaceful they found it. But even in my non-Plan B, it really is peaceful to be detached from the WS.

LL

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Dear Sweet LL,
I am so sorry for your pain. You know, I can identify with you in at least one way. I, too, was born FLAT CHESTED!!!!! I even had inverted nipples. When we had been married for a few years, I underwent plastic surgery and had implants. I got "smallish" ones so that they would look more natural (I'm a C cup), and I've now had them for about 26 years! I've never had any problem with them, and they are just a part of me now.

My husband had his affair with a 23 year old who is a DD cup. Of course, that REALLY got under my skin - no pun intended - because even though I had implants, I still had this inferiority complex about my breasts, as silly as that sounds. My husband, too, always seemed to notice women who were "built", but he would always reassure me that he found me much prettier, more desirable, etc. Well, when this A came out, I was so hurt partly because he had sought out a girl who had huge breasts! I talked to him about that last week, and do you know what he said? (Of course, you don't!) He said, "I fell in love with YOU. Your breasts had nothing to do with it. I loved you before your implants, and I love you with them, but not because of them." His attraction to this girl was SHALLOW. He says that it didn't start as a physical attraction, but I am sure that her attributes played a part if he would be completely honest about it. What I'm trying to say is that a relationship built purely upon the physical will not last! Your husband fell in love with YOU and asked you to marry him, knowing that you were not amply endowed. It didn't matter then, and if he can get his head out of the fog, it won't matter now, either. Don't keep feeling inadequate over this. It is nothing. Listen to me tell you this, when during the first few weeks, I obsessed over just this same thing! Our emotions and imaginations can really do a number on us. Perhaps you will decide to end this marriage. I do hope that you will be able to work things out, but whatever the end result will be, don't you dare let your physical build be a source of pain. I got to thinking about some of my friends who have had to have mastectomies. They had their breasts removed, and are so thankful to be alive! That made me feel pretty superficial, I can tell you. Rejoice in how God made you. If I could go back in time, I would never have had the implants. When the scare about silicone causing numerous health problems came out, I was miserable. Thankfully, I've had no adverse effects, but I'd never choose to do it again.
I hope that you have a better night tonight, and a better day tomorrow. I'm praying for you as I type this.
Marie Elena

LL,

I have been reading your threads over time. This one is especially interesting. Let me recap what I have learned over these months of "reading" you here at MB.
* You got involved with a man at a very young age and married this individual. You have, as a result, very little sense of self, of being an individual apart from this man.
* Unfortunately the man you tied yourself to at such a young age grew into a verbally abusive, selfish, demanding Ogre who everyone has had to put up with.
* Said Ogre has had two affairs and flaunted this last one in your face. And then the Ogre leaves the family home to pursue his breasty OW.
* Lo and behold, there is peace in the home when Ogre is gone. You begins to sense a self for the first time in years and like how this feels. It is scary and yet delicious at the same time.
* The deliciousness bothers you because it is getting in the way of what you believe God would want -- the preservation of your marriage. Better to put up with the Ogre and be stepped on than have God mad at you, eh?

Okay. Now my two cents. Cheap enough. You've come a long way, baby.

You deserve this sense of self and it is exactly what God wants for you, LL. He never intended for you to be an appendage of the your H and to serve as his whipping post whenever he felt a panging to be nasty to someone.

Your H violated the covenant between you time and again, not only with his affairs, but also with his bad attitude and his unloving ways.

The Bible allows divorce in instances where the unfaithful one has left the marital home. You are NOT selfish for considering this option as a way out of this marriage. You are gaining self-respect.

You are like a foal on its feet for the first time, afriad to tell H the true and upset when you do and hurt him. But your wobbly legs will grow stronger the more you can do this and realize he can take it, whether he likes it or not.

You have a right to your opinions, your thoughts, your beliefs, your life! You have a right to be who God intended you to be.

So you haven't let him come home. GOOD! You didn't allow yourself to be bamboozled by the guilt trip he tried to lay on you. GOOD! You were honest and told him your thoughts and fears and that you didn't want him to come home right now. DOUBLE GOOD!

You done good, girl. And all of it is good, not unholy, not sinful, not selfish. It is a sound decision you made for yourself and your children. You should be proud.

Should you divorce? That is your choice. You can give him another chance if you wish. Let him prove himself. Let him show he is capable and willing to transform from the Ogre into a real father and husband and you MIGHT consider continuing the marriage.

Or decide you are not up to it and that's OKAY, too. Ending the marriage won't send you to hell or destroy him forever. And guess what else? If he kills himself, it is not on your head. Suicide is the final act of a disturbed individual. I don't think he'd do it, I think he uses it as a control tactic. But if he did, it would be HIS choice and not your fault.

Finally, my last bit of advice.... whether you stay married to him or not, go out and buy yourself a nice set of boobs - and have him pay for them!!!!

~ Snow

LL, I am also flat chest. WH alway insulted me as airport or whatever. He told me to get plastic surgery, I even consulted the dr. But he told me it is not a good choice. Now I recalled that he had many verbal abuse infront of kids, and friends and even my family. He even told the kids he will get new mom for them. I took them and thought they were jokes. I guess someday i will wake up like you. It is very soon.

Snowbell's analsys is so good. It is to the point. You are strong, girl. Prayers for you.

LNH,

He even told the kids he will get new mom for them. I took them and thought they were jokes.

I heard those, too, but do know they were said as jokes at the time. Strange how jokes can become real, even unintentionally.

Marie Elena,

Your husband fell in love with YOU and asked you to marry him, knowing that you were not amply endowed. It didn't matter then, and if he can get his head out of the fog, it won't matter now, either.

You are probably correct on this point. I am the one who lets it bother me because of years of having him point out other busty "babes" on the street and not offset it by making sure I know he's okay with me the way I am.

Snowbelle,

Unfortunately the man you tied yourself to at such a young age grew into a verbally abusive, selfish, demanding Ogre who everyone has had to put up with.

Well, actually he's always been selfish and demanding. He was that way when we were dating and often did what he wanted, even if it meant cancelling a date with me to go out with his friends. He has become more verbally abusive and angry during the course of the marriage.

Said Ogre has had two affairs and flaunted this last one in your face. And then the Ogre leaves the family home to pursue his breasty OW.

Flaunted both of them in my face, actually. When he has a new babe, he's very proud. He takes them out, he takes them to meet his friends and family (who are obviously bewildered at first), and he has no problem leaving me at home to spend time with them. The first time, he still was around at least half the nights of the week. This time it's been more of a true separation.

Better to put up with the Ogre and be stepped on than have God mad at you, eh?

You hit the nail on the head! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The Bible allows divorce in instances where the unfaithful one has left the marital home.

So if the unfaithful one now wants to come back to the marital home (which it would appear he might), does this mean I must stay M? That D is no longer allowed?

It is a sound decision you made for yourself and your children.

The kids are a big part of why I am trying to be strong and not let him back in right now. They truly seem happier and calmer now that he's gone (although I do think they miss him).

whether you stay married to him or not, go out and buy yourself a nice set of boobs - and have him pay for them!!!!

Hmmm. It's an idea. But seeing as he has no money and that's one of the reasons he's wanting to come home, I'd be stuck with a big bill and a couple saline thingies that might not even look good. I'll probably just stick to padded bras and swimsuits for now.

LL

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL...I hear you on the boob issue...Nothing here either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />