Hi

I have been reading the marriage builders concepts
and everything there is to read on this site for
three months. I didn't start reading the forums
until recently however and have not posted because
I didn't think I belonged here. I am not married
but have been living and engaged to someone for
two years, together for three. I was the OW in
his life but I did not know until eight months after I started seeing him. I want to share my story because I believe none of what has happened would have if someone, anyone had told me that this man was married. Affairs not only destroy
the married couples lives, they also destroy the
the OP's lives. As in everything, all we do effects everyone.

So here is my story. Hopefully I won't get beat up to much for this and maybe it will help someone.

I met this man in my home town while he was working here. He travels alot and lived in another state so I did not know he was married although I asked him the day he called me and asked for a date, and he told me no. I asked him
once more early on and he told me no again. I
believed him. I did not find out until 8 months
later, in fact it was a night we were out on a date and my nephew was babysitting my daughter when his wife called my house and told my nephew.
Nobody in my family or any of my friends had suspected it. I had even gone on a vacation with
him and his 17 year old daughter during this time
and she did never let on. (his wife was not this
girls mother and apparently she didn't like her
very much and wanted her dad to be with me as well
as his other grown children).

Anyway I was very much in love with him by now and
my daughter adored him. He was the first man I dated since my daughters dad left when she was one. She was six when I started dating WH.

He ended up divorcing his wife because I would not
see him. He moved here to be with me after that
and these last couple of years have been the most
painful years I have spent. I am not able to trust him. He loves me but I cannot believe anything he says because of the lie when I met him. I told him last night that I could not be with him anymore because it was just too hard. He
is willing to work the MB, but how do you ever get
over the deception and hurt. I think all the time about the pain I unknowingly caused his exwife
and about how long it will be before he does the
same thing to me.

When you expose the affair to everyone, you give
everyone a choice. Affairs hurt EVERYONE. And
I know I don't need to tell anyone on this website that, but please call the OW/OM and tell them your story so they will have a choice, because there is a chance they don't know about you or your children.

Thank you for reading my story. Weaver

Weaver - why in the heck would we want to beat you up?

Sounds like you're heading for the right conclusion: dump this slime ball.

Of COURSE you shouldn't trust him!!! He's proven to be not trustworthy. He lied to you for a long time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him last night that I could not be with him anymore because it was just too hard. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the right thing to do.

Cut your losses and start over. Every passing moment is an opportunity for a complete turnaround.

You will get loads of support for this course here.

worthatry -

Thankyou! I was shaking when I clicked on to read you reply. I had no idea what I would find.
So thankyou!

I just ordered a bunch of books by the funniest authors I could think of...Fannie Flagg, Lorna Lidvik, David Sedaris. I think laughter is going to be my course of medicine..and a long time coming at that.

I had bought two delapidateded properties after he moved here (in my name) because he is good a carpentry, for rental investments. And a waterfront property (in both our names) for us.
So there is all of that to deal with now.

I'm going to read your story today because now I am curious.

Weaver

In your long list of things to do, please consider writing a letter to his former wife expressing your apologies for unwittingly contributing to the failure of her marriage. Explain everything, including your decision to end your relationship with him. Maybe this can help you get past this.

Keep in mind that your involvement with him did not cause the failure of their marriage, but it prevented them from improving their marriage. Affairs happen because of problems in marriages.

WAT

i agree totally with WAT. and welcome by the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> write the letter, it will help you heal.

a question---this will be his third marriage--do you know what happened in the first???

I think a letter is a good idea for me as well as for her. Maybe knowing that we didn't live happily ever after either will lesson her grief/anger. Although I am sure she hates my guts maybe it will help to move on.

To answer your question -
He married his first wife as age 18 and had three children soon after. I thin his first wife must have been depressed because she wouldn't work in the house or at a job. He said he got fed up after years of working 10 hours days and having to come home and clean, feed the kids and wash a glass before he could even get a drink of pop. His mother told me the same thing and also said that she thinks he still suffers guilt and regret over this divore.

In his second marriage, his kids did not like the wife and she didn't want them around for this reason I think. He says that he was never really commited (obviously) and got remarried as fast as possible because he was afraid to be alone.

He had a child out of wedlock between these marriages (sort of a one night stand story) and he sees this son alot. In fact he spends as much time as possible with his kids and helps them any way he can. He really likes kids (I love kids) and this is what attracted me to him in the first place. My daughter is kind of a lonely only child and loves to have a lot of people around. He has five grandkids, so the hope of lots of family activity and everyhing that goes with it kept me hanging on I think.

It's the trust thing that I can't get past. He asked me last night why I agreed to marry him and
let him move in if I couldn't get over what he had done. But how can you know that trust won't come. I think forgiveness has. I guess everyone in the recovery boards deals with this every moment. I read somewhere on here that recovery is about being able to make a decision in an empowered state of mind instead of in a victim state of mind.

Why don't people, when they decide have to an affair just be honest about it. How can they justify the lies. Making someone doubt their own perception of the truth, their sanity...damaging another persons soul. That's the part I can't understand about all of this. Dr. Harley hits it right on when he says an affair is the cruelest act you can ever commit. And I am from the other side of the coin, and yet the same side of the coin.

Well I think I will end this book and go make some bread or something.

Thank you for your interest/support/and acceptance of me. It is appreciated beyond words.

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>

It's the trust thing that I can't get past. He asked me last night why I agreed to marry him and
let him move in if I couldn't get over what he had done. But how can you know that trust won't come. I think forgiveness has. I guess everyone in the recovery boards deals with this every moment. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, not really. You are dealing with a man with whom adultery is a way of life.MB is not designed to address a character problem as in the case of your BF. He doesn't do it because of unmet needs in a marriage, but because that is how he is. So, of course you can't trust him. You would be crazy to trust an untrustworthy man. He will do TO you what he did WITH you.

A couple more things...

Nikko - I absolutely love what you say in your signature line. How uplifting!!!

Wat - I just read your signature line, how horrible the losses you have had in your life. I know no greater fear than the thought of losing my daughter. I am so sorry. God has obviously blessed you with great strength and wisdom. My problem is small in light of what you have lost.

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are dealing with a man with whom adultery is a way of life.MB is not designed to address a character problem as in the case of your BF. He doesn't do it because of unmet needs in a marriage, but because that is how he is. So, of course you can't trust him. You would be crazy to trust an untrustworthy man. He will do TO you what he did WITH you. </strong>[/QUOTE]

This is so true! Being adulturous is a way of life for my ex. In fact, he and OW have been together a year, and he is, and has been cheating on her. Given your BF's track record, he probably would have done it to you, too. You did the right thing by breaking it off. There are men out there who won't cheat on you. Take the time to heal yourself. No matter how small or insignificant your problems may seem to others, you are still going through a grief process and you need to take care of yourself.

God bless.

MelodyLane,

How can you tell it is a character flaw and not because of marriage problems. This is what I have been struggling with for over two years. But you said right off the bat without knowing us. Aren't all affairs deceptions by their very nature. How is this one different and a way of life for him. Is it intuition that tells you this, because maybe that is what won't let me trust him. I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on this.

Weaver

Weaver, when someone does this over and over again, it is a way of life, rather than a character aberration. There is a huge difference between a serial cheater and a one time cheater who cheated because of marital problems.

Someone who does this over and over again does it because of a character problem so all the met needs in the world won't change that.

And as far as your BF's past "marital problems" you only have his word about what happened, which means very little. Even his mother can only go by what her son tells her. WSes almost ALWAYS spin the truth in order to justify the unjustifiable.

Weaver, I am also curious about why you didn't break up with him when you found out he was married?

Hi Weaver,

I welcome your perspective. I struggle with trying to understand why the OW get/remain involved with MM, why they believe the MM's lies.
At least in your situtation, I really do believe you when you say you did ask if he was married, and that you did believe him. I don't understand why the OW my WH was involved with didn't just contact me or check around to find out if he was lying to them before they got involved with him. When the OW KNOWS the guy's still married, why would they assume he's telling the truth about the marriage being all but over and the wife just not wanting him?!?!?

I am reading a book called, Men Who Can't Love - How to Recognize a Committmentphobic Man Before He Breaks Your Heart (by Steven Carter & Julia Sokol). It's a real eye-opener. I am married to a serial adulterer and before I even read the responses telling you that the MM you're involved with has this character flaw, I guessed the same thing. He obviously has trouble really committing and being faithful... BUT he also is apparently willing to get into relationships and to even marry... I think it's this 2nd part that confuses us women, they naturally presume because he's so willing to get close and even wants to marry again (and again...) that he's not comittmentphobic. It makes his sad tales of previous relationship problems being all the wives' fault somehow seem credible because he doesn't seem to just want an affair, he wants a happy marriage. Here's this sweet sensitive guy, he even loves kids, but his ex-wives just didn't appreciate him... It sounds too good to be true - because it is. This book is what is really helping me accept that I probably can't help my WH and that the divorce is probably the best thing for me and my daughters now. And I thought I would NEVER believe that.

What DO we women have to do to protect ourselves from such con-artists? It must really anger you that he flat out lied to you when you would ask him if he was married. Do we have to hire detectives before dating anyone - sheesh! My WH and I will be divorced come September (unless some sort of miracle occurs). I do NOT want to date any men who are not totally free of any prior comittments; plus I think they'd have to somehow convince me that any ex-wife really doesn't want them back AND that they did all they could to try to save their marriage. I doubt I will meet too many truly eligible, desirable fellas with such standards... Good thing I'm really happy all by myself LOL See I'd want to talk to all the ex-wives myself to hear the other side of the story. So I probably won't have the problem of ending up with another serial adulterer (because I'll end up with no dates at all when I tell them I want to talk to their ex-wives LOL)

I strongly suspect that the first wife's depression was caused by her WH's philandering and lying, THEN he used it as his excuse to divorce her. And she (and her kids) may even still want her husband back?

How did he keep the 2nd wife so totally secret? Didn't you ever go to the town he lived in? How did he explain where he lived there?

I'm curious why the teen child from the first marriage didn't tip you off? My daughters most definitely would not have gone along! If they ever met OW they would tell her all about everything whether or not she wanted to hear it. Maybe she assumed you knew he was married but didn't care? Maybe she's the one that went back and told wife # 2 about you (eventually)? Or maybe she just shared the info with wife # 1 (her mother)? I don't know if it's appropriate or not, but I would have been quizzing that kid about the first marriage, why it ended, why her mother was so depressed, whether or not her mother OR the kids wanted him back.

I certainly wouldn't want to be in your position. I would feel like contacting both ex-wives to apologize and let them know I don't want anything more to do with the WH.

Also, I instantly suspected that the reason he sees the child born out of wedlock so much is because it's a way to see that OW and stay connected to her. Have you met her? Do you if know things are completely over with her relationship-wise?

Sometimes serial adulterers or comittmentphobics have no qualms about STARTING relationships, marriages, families. The problem is they want more than one to avoid getting too close to anyone in particular. They might want a harem or they might want to use the next OW to end things with the last one when the closeness gets too uncomfortable.

They are incredibly selfish and cruel, starting relationships and even families just to fulfill their own emotional needs but never planning to give the people they use a REAL long-term committment and their EXCLUSIVE loyalty.

The kind of confrontation I fantasize about would be me and my daughters confronting my WH WITH all the OW being present. There's a part of me that wants all the OW to know what he's done, to stop pretending he's Mr. Wonderful and to acknowledge he has a problem. But of course I know I can't make that something I need in order to be happy (because it's not going to happen). And oh yeah, all those people who 'supported' my WH, by believing every (obviously incredible) lie he told about how bad his wife/marriage was, would be there in my fantasy confrontation too.

I do suspect the latest OW my WH was involved with has dumped him for good now, that she and her family DID catch on that he's a con-artist. But I don't really understand her attitude towards me. I would think she'd at least send me a letter of apology, if not a thank you for trying to warn her about him! Maybe she's too embarrassed? She could very easily give me some assurance that she will have nothing more to do with him. It's as though she's dumped him now but wants him to lose me too? Anyway, it's my WH's responsibility to me to prove to me that HE is through with the OW. And since he won't send the no contact letter (and OW won't at least have the courtesy to tell me if she's really done) then we will just go through with the divorce.

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I did break up with him when I found out. I then went into a deep depression, into therapy, joined a spiritually based workshop. I didn't see him for three months. He filed for divorce and came to see me then. I had a couple of phone calls with him in that time because I wanted to know why
he did it. I was deeply in love with him, the marriage was something that was never apart of our relationship and I had a very hard time coping with the fact that it was all one huge deception. My daughter was very attached to him.
This was the first man we had in our lives since she could remember. Why I went back with him after I knew all this is something I can't answer. I simply wanted it to be. And I didn't know what I know now about how important trust is about how damaging affairs are. I wish I still didn't know, but I am very thankful I found MB, because if I ever do get married I will be here every step of the way, I never hope to go through this again, on any side of the coin.

Meremortal,

Wow. I think your husband is so much like this guy. Why do they have to be so charming and lovable? You are right that is why it is so confusing to women. I wish his wife had called me I know I could not have knowingly hurt anyone. I was the one who could never date anyone any of my friends liked even if they never even went out with the guy. It still makes me sick to think of what she must have gone through.

I never went to his home town because he was either here working or on the road. I never called him at home because I never had to. He always called me. I plain just didn't have a clue. We were looking at houses and property, it just never entered my mind. At first I was furious with all his kids for going along with it. But I now realize that honesty was not instilled in them and they just wanted their Dad to be happy. I was very angry at him and spent the last two years making him pay for it.

I can't imagine going through what you are going through. (even though I am in a way) Do you think your husband will get it when the divorce happens, and then change? People change but sometimes it takes a great loss. I hope he does because I can tell you love him still.

I'm sure that this OW will thank you if she doesn't already, even if only in her heart. I keep thinking about the letter WAT told me to send and my stomach hurts just to think of it. It will be the hardest letter I have ever sent. And I don't think it will be read with appreciation. But I do want to tell her I am sorry for the part I played in it.

I'm very okay with being alone too. I never cared that much about dating. And I know I will talk to everyone in my dates life before I get emotionally involved also. I will call them at home before I go out with them. I am even going to have background checks done and credit reports done(I work with USC so shouldn't be too hard). In fact I will be the mother/aunt from h*ll when my daughter and nieces start to date. How sad is that!

Weaver

Weaver,

You seem to be at a turning point where you want more out of the R. The needs of the children on both sides also come into play.

He seems like a scum of sorts (too many As), but he also shows he cares for his children.

He may have internal issues plaguing him more than you can see. So here's my suggesttion:

Recommend you both consult with Steve Harley. He does phone counseling. Your sitch is dffficult but not impossible. He regrets the demise of his 1st M and there maybe some unresolved issues but learning and going forward can be better once those issues are confronted and resolved.

Before you both throw in the towel, try the above.

All the best.
L.
PS: The letter to the 2nd W is a good idea. Make sure you don't make your R look better than her M. I received a letter from the Ow that started out: Dear L,

I can tell you that 1st line disgusted me. There was no R or dear anything between the OW and myself. The rest of her letter contained hurtful babble including her mentioning that MY mother was dying. She tried to disguise it as concern but her stabbing insults filled the letter.

I think you will do good because you have a good attitude and want to do the right thing.

Weaver,

Get the Men Who Can't Love book. It was only $7.99 U.S. ($10.99 Canada)

It eerily describes in detail exactly what these con artists say and do to get us to ignore our gut instincts and to trust them instead. I found the step-by-step explanations invaluable. First the book will describe something this sort of man will say or do that will give you the false impression that he can be trusted and wants to make a commitment. Next the book describes the woman's typical response, the man's REAL agenda, and the SMART response for the woman to employ! AND in the man's mind he's not being dishonest with you... it's just that those perfect things he tells you means something totally different to him... and/or he really FEELS like that at the time he says it... then FEELS differently later.

BTW, men who build new relationships very quickly is one of the warning signs of a commitmentphobic. Women trust them because they seem so willing to commit in the beginning. What we women don't realize until it's too late is that commitment is shallow and/or temporary. Some commitmentphobics use affairs and/or divorce as their way of escape when the commitment gets too uncomfortable. So they don't have to fear MAKING a commitment... because they know they have an escape route.

The book also warns that sometimes these men are capable of behaving very lovingly towards the children involved. It's not so threatening to them to let themselves get attached to children. I don't think they realize how much emotional damage they can do to the children. I know my WH simply can't accept that our children are in any way upset by his adultery. He blames me alone for all the problems they are suffering. He even expected me to lie and cover for him and OW, even after my daughters were confronting me that they thought he was having an affair, and then later when other people we know were telling them they saw him and OW (and her kid) out in public together he said I was supposed to tell our daughters she was just his 'friend'! My daughters are all in their teens and are incredibly perceptive. It simply wouldn't have worked to try to keep his adultery a secret from them. They were coming home complaining that the OW kept interrupting their visitation with their father, calling him to check up on him, and he thought it was my duty to convince them she was just a friend and that she cared about them!

Anyway, back to your situation:

When you try to break up with this sort of guy he just wants you even more. So he will REALLY pursue, jump through hoops, make promises, etc. to try to keep you. I was not at all surprised when I read that he divorced his 2nd wife when you broke up with him before. Unfortunately, even such grand gestures do not really mean his intentions are what you think of as an exclusive, forever, commitment. And unless you want to try to maintain that delicate balance, always threatening to leave him so he stays in pursuit of you (instead of next OW) mode, this is not a real solution. Brace yourself for him to pour on the temptation to try to get you to stay now. But unless he's willing to admit he has a problem and to get help until it's solved, IMO you should just detach. He's got plenty of previous marriages and relationships he needs to mend already. He needs to start taking responsibility for all those other failed beginnings that he just walked away from. Odds are whether or not you leave him he will just start another relationship soon anyway. I just hope there are no children involved the next time (but I bet there will be because that's part of what makes him feel good).

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I love this website because everyone offers such a different perspective. It's confusing but gives such an opportunity for thought in different directions and out of the muck of your own overused and abused perspective.

Before I ended it, we did agree to apply the MB principals. We were both very excited about it.
But then this weekend we had a trip to our property planned (we parked an old travel trailer there). He is working out of town and there had been an accident on the train (he works for the railroad) and he called about noon on Sat to say he couldn't make it home. My daughter and I had already went shopping and packed everything in the car for the camping trip when I got his message. The problem is I spent all that night doubting his story. Maybe it's true, maybe not but it's the not knowing that I can't take anymore. I don't want to spend the rest of my life checking out his stories and I don't want to half to put a chain around his neck to keep him on the up and up.

All you people who have been through affairs in your marriages and the marriage ended can take comfort in the fact that nothing good comes from the misery of someone else.

I have a girlfriend who went through this with a married man also. She never spoke to him again when she found out, but after 12 years it still haunts her. For some unknown reason, she named her dog after him a couple of years ago. She also told me that she spent along time thinking about his wife who he is still married to.

I posted my story on this website because I read a post from a surgeon who was in incredible pain over his wife's (supposedly short)
affair. He hadn't exposed the affair or any truths it seemed, and all I could think of was CALL THAT MAN and tell him your story. Tell him about your wife. It is so important to get the truth out. I didn't feel comfortable butting in but wanted to say that the truth needs to be told to the OP...only good can come out it. Even the OP deserves to have a choice. And if they do they may end the affair themselves. Granted, probably most people know the person is married and some may not care, but if they know you are a real person...it will definetly plant a seed at any rate.

One more thing from my experience. This man did tell me the wife #2 was a nut and that she did really crazy stuff. I knew then that if that was true, then it was because of what he put her through. So if your WS is saying bad things about you, the OP knows that it is b*llsh*t. Even if they won't admit it. And if you are acting crazy, EVERYBODY including your WS knows why and understands.

I don't know what will happen with my story but I
put it in God's hand and asked him to take care of it. I know He will and everything will happen according to His will.

Thank you,
Weaver

Hi again, Weaver.

I'll bump up a poat for you titled, Affair exposure 101.

Based on what you've already written, you won't be surprised at anything you read, other than, perhaps, some arguments NOT to expose (these typically come from WSs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Please contribute to the posts linked within that post to share your experience. It will be helpful to others.

Thanks,
WAT

There is a huge difference between a serial cheater and a one time cheater who cheated because of marital problems

Please tell where in the heck anything and I mean ANYTHING was posted by Weaver saying this man had had mulitple affairs?

Well she didn't post that so those of you that rushed to judgement need to go back and reread.

weaver posted he had one affair with her....it became an exist affair.

weaver posted he had two failed marriages and one out of wedlock child BETWEEN those failed marriages.

Where in the world was it ever posted that this man had been involved in several affairs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Exit affairs are completely different than other forms of affairs.

Now rush to judgement aside

weaver this is clearly a man that has problems with long term committed relationships. BUT you knew that before you married him. You really haven't posted nothing that you didn't already know so what is really eating at you?

Why are you suddenly so insecure so concerned about that which you already knew?

Do you suspect he might be having an affair? Are you feeling paranoid because things might not be going so well?

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: stunned-dad-fast recovering ]</small>