Weaver,

Fascinating story. We Bs's all like to demonize the ow, well, because it is easier than hating our beloved husband's, and because you don't want to think it was something wrong with YOU.

Well, when I read your thread I could see how one would be duped into the relationship, into being an OW. I wish, O MAN HOW I WISH, my WH's OW was like you!!!!! I called her one day, with one of the calmest and respectful demeanors I have EVER portrayed, even though I was DYING inside, and asked her why she could not just leave my husband alone, and leave us to the hard work of rebuilding our marriage, and saving our family (I have two young, beautiful children that are just SUFFERING right now...terribly, terribly hurt and confused by their Dad's choices). And she said to me "I would just have way to much to lose." Then I calmly tried to explain how much we had to lose, how I had invested all these years with my husband, how we had built a beautiful, a TRULY beautiful life together. How my children were hurting so, so badly. Then I tried to explain to her how in my faith, A was wrong. She then told me that those were antiquated, outdated ideals, and that one has to do what is necessary when they discover true love, no matter the circumstances. Ouch.

Anyway, I have to disagree about building a life with him, in my own opinion. Why?

Well, firstly, marriage is hard enough without this MAJOR card stacked against you. And my WH did cheat on me when we were just dating, and I tried to excuse that away as youth, and immaturity. Well, the current A may not have youth to blame, but we are still dealing with quite a bit of emotional immaturity on behalf of my WH. And if I could have just gone back and cut my losses while I could have....man o man o man, I would not have married him. I can honestly say I would have rather dealt with the pain and loss of leaving and losing him then, than the pain and loss of leaving and losing him now. And it is truly a fact in most situations that past behavior is indicative of future behavior. And I do not get the sense that you were controlling, manipulative, or punitive when he did share some sort of uncomfortable truth with you, so there was really NEVER any reason to lie. Or was there... let's remember that the very PREMISE of an A involves lies.

Secondly, is it possible that these lovely, in love, committed feelings he is having for you now is par for the course in any new love relationship, but that once that expires, he will no longer have a use for you (like he ran out of love for his past two wives).

Thirdly, it sounds like you are a spiritual person. If you are, than you KNOW that God will never have something be in His will for your life that is counter to His word. And you may have left the letter in your bible, and then this guy entered your life, but it was not of God. God did not "bless" you with a married man. You know this. God hates divorce. Not committing Adultery is one of the ten commandments for goodness sakes. This man was not a gift from God. Plus, God says not to be unevenly yoked. You are not married yet. You have to ask yourself, how many values does this man REALLY, TRULY share with you. He doesn't have much regard for the sanctity of marriage (this will be marriage NUMBER THREE for him, plus, he committed adultery with you). He does not value honesty (if you really want to do some investigation, you could probably call wife #1, and wife #2 and learn some really, really, really interesting perspectives). It just does not sound like a blessing from God. When you are plugged into Christ, you know a blessing or an answer to a prayer when you see one. And God has a perfect plan for you....the bible says it will be better and more amazing than we could ever dream. In all honesty, does this guy fit the bill. If Christ were to personally approve or condone your choice, WOULD HE?

My very humble opinion only...but I say, run for the hills lassie, run!!!

As for my age - I am 44 but I look 15, however
I feel 98. Does that suck...or what?

Weaver

SerendipiT, (man that is hard to type)

Yes, I knew when I found out, that he wasn't sent from God. Thats part of why it was so crushing. And in therapy after I found out, I did deal with the fact that for some reason I attracted him to me. I don't want to get too deep, but I know unwittingly I asked for this.

I am so thankful I found this website. When I read all your sad stories, and how you hang in their because of your incredible belief in marriage, it makes me want to have that with someone. Not the bad stuff, but the hanging in there for better or for worse, the forgiveness and all that...I mean it is so uplifting.

Your supposed to love someone unconditionally, and when they falter, you hang on...because of love and commitment and because that is what you
vowed to do. I mean that is what it is all about.

I don't count myself in that group because your right we weren't married. I was on someone else's
borrowed time.

The OW in your marriage knows that too. The Truth
is always there. People can openly see it and admit to it or not. But it is there none the less and will not be denied.

Well I gotta stop now, while I'm still making sense, if even only to myself. LOL

Weaver

You are a good woman. This may sound weird, but just let me say it. Thank you for being a good, albeit unwitting, OW. You will be blessed someday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Weaver, you are a very smart woman. I hope you remain strong and are able to fight off his future attempts to lure you back to him. You have the values we all thought we had with our Wayward spouses so hang on tight to what you have on the inside, values and common sense. Good luck.

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

To Soon and SerendipiT

Thank you both for your kindness.

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>Your supposed to love someone unconditionally, and when they falter, you hang on...because of love and commitment and because that is what you vowed to do.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the things you'll learn here is that marital love is not unconditional - it's conditional on meeting the ENs of the partner. If we don't buy into this concept, the whole love bank analogy is invalid.

Unconditional love, IMHO, is reserved for children, family, blood relatives, etc.

Hopefully, in a marriage, the love bank gets an ample balance and the commitments and vows add to the "finances" via the integrity and character of the spouses, i.e., "loans" are available. This does not mean the marriage is guaranteed for life - an unconditional bond. If the balance drops low enough and debt mounts up with the "loans", a affair is likely when an opportunity comes along.

WAT

weaver

My wife had been severely sexually abused. She hid most of this from everyone and all of it from me.

But there were certain things that clicked when her suppressed memories came bubbling up after the affair.

Over our now 18 year marriage I can recall certain pre affair sexual aversions she had.

When we first married she would hide nighties and lingerie I would buy her. I bothered me tremendously at the time. 17 years later when she is talking about the abusive high school boyfriend in a soft sobbing voice she said he would buy "nice things for her" (lingerie) tell her to go into the bathroom and put it on. Instructed her when she came out to pretend he was a stranger. He would then act out mock rapes cutting or tearing the nighties off of her.

Most men with a pulse like oral sex. My wife wanted nothing to do with. She never did it. After 10 or so years of marriage I put in for it in a rather pushy manner and pressed her to do it. There was such a violent rage when she went down and started to that I stopped her fearing for my own safety.

Light bulb went off regarding that night when she talked about the forced threesome. While his boot camp buddy was down there raping her, the boyfriend put his knees on her shoulders and straddled her face forcing her to perform oral sex while the rape was happening. She couldn't breath and said she felt she was going to die right then and there...her greatest fear was what would her mother think of her being in a hotel room....see the conditioning?

Finally she was sexually dysfunctional most of our marriage. As such I thought well she could at least help with my pleasure with her hand if she didn't want me inside her. But she had an aversion with that too.

Not surprising. When the boyfriend had come with the engagement ring she knew she no longer loved him. She knew she had feelings for me...she said that is why she told me she was going off to get engaged she wanted me to tell her not to (see the can't say no in play wanting someone else to say no for her). She couldn't go through with sex with him. The last thing he did after trying to force her to have sex was cuss her and jack off in her face. That literally was her last memory of him.....new engagement ring on her finger and semen running down her face because she didn't want to have sex with him.

She didn't like certain positions....well she only went for missionary style. Why? Because she could handle being done. On top would require her active participation. Rear entry she hated because later on she would recall being sodomized.

So many things of about her affair triggered memory recall from me about her abuse once those memories started coming to her.

So I instantly knew the therapist was right when she said my wife had been abused as a child. I instantly understood what the therapist meant by her being conditioned.

To top it off I actually by hook and crook managed to read OM's actual records at from the therapist office he was going to. I read his hand written sex journal. He had a dozen prior affairs. 7 with women having sexual problems with their husbands. 1 having sexual problems with her boyfriend. 1 with mental problems and 1 with a drinking problem.

So I knew he was a sexual predator. And I learned that my wife was not only sexual dysfunctional but that she had victim written in bold letters that a predator could read a mile away.

She also changed once she let her past abuse out into the open and began dealing with it.

I had alot to work with.

I don't know how to advise you on your situation.

You say the fact he cheated with you worries you.

I do note it was an exit affair. He did leave his wife over you because his feelings were that strong for you.

I don't want to say one type of affair is better than another because they are all painful but....

Exit affairs are different than most affairs. Different set of motives. Different set of issues.

If he truly had this affair because of feelings for you I don't know what to say and what guidelines would apply.

My father had an exit affair when I was just one but 43 years later he is still with the "OW".

My biggest question is why the sudden insecurity...perhaps that is what a therapist needs to address.

weaver

Let me respond to how do you know when it started out with deception.

Well my wife hid her past from me. Literally for more than a decade when we would argue over sex she would say "its not you its me...I know I have a problem".

But never NEVER did she tell me what in her past was impacting our marriage so much.

So she hid things from me for almost 20 years. She kept up a front that she was okay not traumatized.

You have to look at his actions now. You have to look at what you have experienced.

I know my wife can hide her feelings....over 18 years worth of hiding.

I know she can outright lie to me and decieve me....she did it for 2 1/2 years.

But I also know the reasons for her actions...as you know the reasons for his...it was you, you were the one he had such feelings for he broke his marriage vows.

I move forward by looking at what she has done in the last year and a half.

Can you move forward based on his actions since you two married?

stunned - they're not married.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's the trust thing that I can't get past. He asked me last night why I agreed to marry him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I took that to mean they were married. If I goofed my bad.

Is agreed to marry present tense as in you guys are engaged?

Hi Weaver,

I hope you can resist the temptation of him trying to keep you in his life.

Things to keep in mind:

He left his first wife because she was depressed.
He has proven he can't be counted on when the going gets rough; he's there for the good times and then he'll leave for another woman, a new romance, when things get too real or the woman actually NEEDS him to help her.

He was involved with and created a child with another woman in between. What involvement might he still have with this woman (possibly using visitation with that child as excuse to keep in contact with her)? Why didn't things work out with that woman? What does she say about their break-up?

Then he married another woman, supposedly without making a 'real commitment' to her, just didn't want to be alone. But you can bet he told HER that he loved her and was making a real commitment to her. Either he was lying to her just to use her to fill in for awhile until the next woman (you) came along... and then just forgot to tell her once he got involved with you, stringing her along a tad longer than needed... OR he really did feel/think he was in love with her when he married her, but when the sparks began to cool (as they always do) he got bored and pursued you too. My guess is he would have remained married to her and tried to have his cake & eat it too as long as you two didn't find out about each other. Either way, he's got some serious problems with maturity, honesty, using women, making AND HONORING true commitments, that have nothing to do with the women in his lives - past wives/lovers, or you;
HE has some problems that simply changing women won't cure (even if he usually doesn't have the women overlap, marries them for a while, and is nice to the kids).

You said he sounds just like my WH, a serial adulterer. Other posters have pointed out that he isn't a serial adulterer because he's only had one affair (that you known of). IMO he's at least serial adulterer in the making. The only difference is he's managed the women a bit differently so far and/or hasn't been caught much yet. I'm willing to bet if you contacted his ex-wives, and the woman he had the child out of wedlock with, you would learn that he has been unfaithful with more women than just you.

Does he deserve (and would he even appreciate) having a woman stand by him to (try) to help him with his problems? If he really is anything like my WH he doesn't/won't. As long as there's no shortage of OW he can turn to (and there never will be), who will be new and interesting when he gets bored (and he WILL), who won't (yet) be expecting him to stand by them if they really need him (to honor his commitment to them and the children, to help them through a depression), and who won't know about his problems (why solve them if he can just find a new woman who doesn't detect the problems yet), then you will never be able to trust him.

And you SHOULDN'T trust him. Sometimes in your postings (and in some of the responses) it sounds as if there's a conclusion being hinted at that you have a problem with trusting... IMO your fears are well-founded. Even if he is (currently) being faithful to you, and not involved with another woman (yet), I think you are absolutely justified in not trusting him. He has already proven himself untrustworthy by lying to both you and his 2nd wife. You already KNOW what sort of deception he is capable of.

Somebody also posted something about the OW not breaking up marriages, because if there were problems in the marriage, the affair didn't cause the break-up? ALL marriages have problems. HIS responsibility was to stand by his wife, ESPECIALLY when there were problems. I am not pointing the blame at you because you did ask him if he was married and he lied to you.
He LIED to you! AND he failed to honor his commitment to his wives. Do you really want to become wife # 3 KNOWING he lies to women and breaks commitments?

Also, you said you prayed to God for him to send a man into your life and you thought this was the man. God would have not sent a married man to you. And according to the Bible, doesn't adultery always stay just adultery, never can turn into a real marriage? Also, as other posters have pointed out, the odds of a third marriage making it are slim, marriages from adultery even slimmer. Obviously this guy isn't the one God wanted for you and your daughter. So why settle for him? Why not wait for the one God would really want for you and your little girl?

In addition to the Men Who Can't Love book, please get a copy of Single, Sassy & Satisfied by Michelle McKinney Hammond. It's very uplifting and really helps in those times when your desires start to cloud out your smarter instincts, when you're tempted to settle for less than what you KNOW you deserve and REALLY want. You're justifiably suspicious and upset because you KNOW this guy is NOT what you prayed for. He conned you into trusting him and getting involved with him. He even got close to your little girl. And he did that KNOWING he wasn't really what you and your daughter want, need, deserve. He did it for the same reason he married wife # 2 - just so HE wouldn't be alone.

Don't worry about him - my guess is he'll find another woman (and more kids) really quickly and won't be alone for long.

Stunned Dad -

We are not married. Were engaged to be married this summer. I called it off last Sun night.

Your wife's story is horrible. I couldn't get it out of my mind all day. No wonder she couldn't tell you. How do you vocalize something like that, she probably didn't even know what was so wrong with her. You see stuff in the paper like that, monsters who would hurt a little kid, or young girls & boys. She is so lucky she found someone who really loves her.

My friend works as a counseler in a drug/alcohol recovery home and she hears horrific stories like that all day. She told me the majority of these women never find someone decent, because they just can't relate to loving people. They have never known that.

God bless you both!

MereMortal,

Can you tell me how I can find your thread? I want to read your story when you first decided to end your marriage.

I might pick up those books in a couple of weeks. I just ordered a bunch of funny books because I just want to laugh again for awhile.

"Does anybody remember laughter?" LOL

Thanks MereMortal,

So, weaver, how's that letter coming to the second most recent victim of betrayal of this pond scum? Or is it the most recent victim? There's too many to keep track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I bet you can tell I'm challenging you.

WAT

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I wrote the letter WAT, but I cannot get an address for her. I called FBF's (see I'm learning the lingo) daughter, but she has no idea
(his kids were not close to her). Daughter said she moved and probably was with someone else now.
She did tell me that the ex changed back to her maiden name.

Since I know your next question is "lets here the letter" ...here it is.

_________ (I didn't use "dear" because Orchid told me not to)

I am writing this out of guilt and though I know it is not selfless, I hope it will bring us both a little bit of peace. If nothing else, maybe lesson the anger and grief in your heart and the pain in mine.

I want you to know that I did not know of you
until after I had been seeing your husband for 8 months, but I sure did know about you when I went back with him, after he left you. And for that I am very sorry. Maybe you could have mended your broken marriage if it wasn't for me. I hope I never have to know the answer to that.

If it is of any solace to you, it did not work out for us and everyday we were together was a struggle. How could something good come out of someone else's broken dreams.

I hope you can (and that you already have) found love again.


____________

Now I know you are going to ask me why don't I ask BF for the address as he probably has it. You
are probably thinking that if he could, he is probably still seeing her anyway. (and maybe he is) At any rate his response to my wanting to send the letter should be interesting.

I am worried that my letter will bring her more pain, just bring back painful memories if she has moved on. Or she might just laugh her *ss off, who knows.

Very good.

I actually expected you to say you were putting it off, but I was wrong.

I don't have a suggestion on how to find her address, and I'm not sure it's appropriate to ask him for it.

You'll think of something.

Again, a very good gesture, in my opinion.

WAT

You might try this site...

http://www.anywho.com/rl.html

White page directory, and reverse phone lookup.

SD

Thank you SD,

I didn't think of the internet. I will try.

Do you have a thread on here too?

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No wonder she couldn't tell you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">weaver the reason she couldn't tell me is actually much deeper.

Her high school boyfriend didn't start out abusive. He was one grade ahead of her. When he gradutated he started talking marriage while she had just finished her junior year. Sometime late that summer or early that fall she felt like she to tell him about the aquaintance rape that led to the abortion. He freaked since he thought she was a virgin...well in many ways she was. But because of the abortion he and the not being a virgin he turned on her. It was not all at once just a progressive way...much like a wife beater doesn't start off by beating up their spouse...they shove them first maybe pin them against a wall...then shake them or slap them....finally full fledged violence. He turned on her in that slow way...abusing then saying so sorry then dragging her self esteem down by saying she was worthless and it was her fault or she must like it that way and so on.

So in her mind if he turned because of her not being a virgin and having an abortion what would I do knowing that plus the fact she had been a party to a forced threesome?

What sticks out there is before we went all the way one day out of the blue she told me she wasn't a virgin...it was out of the blue because one I hadn't asked and two we hadn't done enough to indicate we were going to lovers anytime soon at that point. Looking back she said she told to make sure there was no misunderstanding....I guess fearing I would react like high school boyfriend if I thought I was the only one.