HI Jenny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When a problem is presented, women, gotta love 'em, frequently only want to disect the feelings and meaning of the problem. They want to discuss it. They want other women (and men, for that matter) to validate that the problem is real and has an affect on them. In other words, they want their feelings about the problem to be labeled as genuine and justified.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Wat! You're talking braile here chere. There is no doubt that Lisa needs this right now, but I don't need that at all. And I don't think Pep does either, or ark, or awed and the list goes on. For that matter...look at all the men on this board who need validation...badly. Oh and by the way....generalities are almost always sexist despite the protestations that they aren't. I'm not saying that men and women aren't different, or that "frequently" it appears the way you've described...but hard wired?? nuh uh If it were hardwired then the rest of us must be mutants!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It might not feel like progress, but from what I've seen you ARE making progress, Lisa

I want to suggest you do something. And it's very important that you ACTUALLY do this...

Go buy two small children's puzzles. Choose one puzzle that will represent Lisa. Choose another different puzzle that will represent "The world around Lisa"

Look at the Lisa puzzle and decide which piece is the most beautiful piece on it's own. Remove it, and write "God" on it. Set it to the side, but not too far away.

Take each piece of the "world" puzzle and label it "OM", "H", "Kids", "Alcohol", etc...anything that you tend to look to for validation or escape.

Once they are all labeled, try to fit each one into the empty spot on the "Lisa" puzzle.

Finally, reach for the "God" piece.

Come back and tell us what you learn...

Low

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Well, I'm a guy. And I'm not sassy or even confident. In fact, I could relate a lot to what you were writing.

My thoughts are: Congratulations, you're a human being. You are weak and you failed and you are totally normal. We humans are very imperfect, so stop denigrating yourself with your failures.

Lisa, you feel like an abject failure and you are looking for one little voice to tell you "I see some good in you." When the OM considers the affair as nothing to him, it's a slap in the face. You did, after all, trade everything important in your life to experience this with him. His low regard for the event says that you and everything in your life were just grist for his pleasure mill.

Your desire for validation from him is destructive and unhealthy. Imagine if he warmed up to you again? You would be in imminent danger of reigniting the affair. Actually, I think you are completely under his control right this minute... and he no doubt sees this and gets a tremendous charge out of it.

Look in your life. What gives you the strength to carry on? You need something you can take pride in, in your life.

I broke my vows to my wife. What can I take pride in? My only pride is that my wife is a better person than me and forgave me. I'm not a "good" person, but I made a great choice in a wife. That gives me strength. I receive her grace.

Until you recognize and believe some reason why you don't need OM's validation, you will be a slave to his every word or action toward you.

I think I can speak for the people on this board when I say that I see a lot of good in you. It is significant that you are here on this board wrestling out the consequences of your actions. Lots of people walk away from their responsibilities everyday. You should be proud of yourself for being an adult and focusing on fixing your life instead of abandoning or perpetuating the destruction.

You said before in this thread you have faith in Jesus Christ. Lookit this description of him from Isaiah 42:1-3. You have great reason for hope:

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. 3 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice."

Stay strong and God bless,

Jg

Bear with me, ladies...... This is NOT sexist - it's a celebration of our differences.

welcome to the spin zone.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sorry ladies, I really meant no offense - especially not to Lisa. Please consider my post an inappropriate addition to this thread. I'll go delete it unless you gals want to poke me some more. I can take it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT

Lisa,
I feel your pain. Your words, are my words. I could give you that same description of myself.

I am in IC, we are working on - surprise, my self worth, and how I get my worth first and for most from God. I'm worthy because he made me in his image.

I know for you confident ones that is such an easy statement. But for somebody who has been verbally abused and lacks in the worth area, it is the first step.

I have been told I need to change my internal dialogue, because we feel what we are thinking. So if you are constantly thinking, like I was, I am the worst person in the world, I made such a big mistake, I'm never going to be seen as a good human again, then you will feel it.

I have since changed my dialogue. I'm feeling much better. I still struggle, but I'm working on all my inner demons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I would love for the OM to adore me for the rest of my life, I have such a fear he will come out of this and not like me for the person I am. I have to let that go. I understand your need for approval. Our lack of it as children has messed us up.

I still seek my mother's approval every single day. I'm hoping I can let go of that need. I need to find my worth with in myself. As do you.

I'm still struggling with my relationship with God as well. I feel so unworthy of his love and forgiveness. I feel so much shame when I speak to the Lord, or even about the Lord.

I have heard about journaling 3 things you are grateful for everyday. I think it is a great idea. I would suggest for you, and I, to also journal something we are proud of ourselves for that day.

Lack of worth is a hard place to be, but I'm feeling more and more that I will be okay. I have people who love me for who I am, as do you.

I'm sharing what I have learned so far, because your story about yourself seems so close to mine.
MB Love,
KY-4

WAT!!

I am not OFFENDED at all....and i don't even think it's sexist...

but I also say..

closure schmosure...
shut the book on all of that...

I have a friend at work with whom I share an office...
our favorite saying..which we NEVER EVER get to use...but have great in depth fantasys and converations about...

ESPECIALLY after someone comes in the office to whine and complain...about the nature of say...
WORK!!! duh!! there's a reason it's called work ...it's not called FUN!!!!!

etc...

favorite dream saying...

SHUT YOUR PIE-HOLE!!!
just the word PIEHOLE cracks me up...
never get to use it....curses...

i'd much rather poke you some more WAT...than let you delete....

AND LISA..this is not to disregard your issues...but some of this is accepting the reality that is in front of you...
for WHATEVER reason you two are no longer part of eachothers lives....


we feed our thought processes more than we admit

we provide the energy to ponder, ruminate, and revisit every little interaction...
part electrical/.chemical...big part driven...
you are driving a lot of this...for one reason that it is known and familiar to you...

you put this person number one in thought...
when forming the basis of the affair
while in the affair
and now in it's demise and post demise...
you choose/have chosen to think of him...for a long time...

a lot of this is just more of the same..just different chapter......

ARK

WAT,

Can't you tell when someone's messing with ya?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm not the least bit offended...just yanking your chain chere because the second I hear someone say "it's not sexist" I know I'm about hear something that is! LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> WAT,

Can't you tell when someone's messing with ya?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes not because I'm so naive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> - especially when hard wired women are doing it.

WAT

Is it my imagination ...

or did WAT just ask

for a POKE?

LOL LOL LOL

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In MY house ... these words usually result in giggling and locked doors in the middle of the day.....
shhhhhhhh don't tell.


WAT wants a poke... any takers?

Not me .. but thanks for asking.

OK... feeling the Friday wacko mood engulfing me.....


Pep

hmmmmmmmm wonder what Mr. Pep is doing later on....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

aw crap pep...

ark said...

i'd much rather poke you some more WAT...than let you delete....

NOW I have to go and delete....

hmmmmmmmm wonder what Mr. Pep is doing later on.......

that's Mr. Poke to you.....


ark..Who just told mr. ark that she no longer loves him at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and watched him squirm for just a smidgen.......and then told him how now I just totally adore him....

ark

My husband and I are both off today...

Just poking around the house... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Susan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is it my imagination ...

or did WAT just ask

for a POKE?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i'd much rather poke you some more WAT </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG! Screen spew!!!

STAR!!

PEP started it!!

NOT me!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's her thought processes...
NOT mine!!!!!!!!!!

ARK

WAT, don't you think this is a self esteem issue...confidence issue....instead of gender issue? Or do you want to put your foot in your mouth again and say poor self esteem is hard wired in women? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Originally posted by ark^^:


PEP started it!!

Nawh!

WAT started it!!

Sorry for this, Lisa.

Sea*star, where have you been, under a coral head??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> No, I don't believe low self esteem is a gender issue. But I do believe the whole communications/empathy vs. solution oriented problem solving issues are. Seems many researchers and behavior experts do too. Just as males are hard wired to (generally) be better at spatial relationships, females are hard wired to be better at expressing emotions and communicating. Of course, these are generalizations over the population as a whole and there's HUGE overlap at the individual level. That's the way it turned out, I believe, and we shouldn't ignore it but rather, should recognize it. It's a fact of life - generally speaking.

Why do you think females typically rate "conversation" as a higher EN than males and that males usually don't understand this? Hmmmmm? It's the empathy/communications difference thingy.

OK, I'll shut up.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

no need for apologies...this thread was way too serious anyway!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think that I think too much is my biggest issue. I need to learn to have fun again and let some things go!!

I appreciate all the responses so much. One day you guys may be surprised when I show up as a SASSY FWW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Jenny!!!

Going back to your original post on this thread if I may, Lisa:

The OM's treatment of me since OM, I do still work with him, has devastated me. This man was a predator of the worst type. I think I'll do this in a questionnaire form to make it easier to read.

3. I have humiliated myself by writing letters trying to salvage some normalcy between us since we work together. He ignores everything I say and that cuts me deep.

Been there, done that too....years ago. Trying to get closure. That didn't happen.

5. How do I move beyond finding in myself what I seem to still need from him. I don't want a EA/PA with him, I just want to be treated like I wasn't some whore that he has no use for now.

Have you considered quitting your job? I had to. I couldn't live with my mistake parading in front of my face daily.

6. I have had some people tell me on here that I've got to achieve this "wholeness" within myself without needing validation from anyone else. How do I get there?????

7. Yesterday and today have been major set backs with the crying uncontrollably again. I want to gain control over my life and need solid advice, and suggestions. Maybe someone can recommend a good book as a start.

There are lots of books you can read, but the best action you can ever take is to quit your job.

8. The things that I have done post A and during the A haunt me and I need to let it go and forgive myself for these pathetic weaknesses. I hate myself for begging for some kind of show of love from OM several times since A ended a year ago.

Quitting my job worked for me. I quit 4 years ago. That was the only way I was able to find myself and get my life back. And believe me, I tried everything.

Time heals the withdrawal and the pain.