I can quite easily put my finger on the difference.

SF at home had become a high ceremony of "lovemaking". Had to watch protocol and be careful that I wasn't too crude or disrespectful of such a "spiritual" thing. Physically, it was always very good. It just stopped being fun somewhere along the line.

SF in the affair was exactly the opposite. It was playful, adventurous, and FUN. We made a grand sport out of it.

My wife and I have been working to put "fun" back into our SF.

Low

My WH has been unhappy with our sex life for our entire marriage. See I've never had an "O" during sex with him or with anyone else. I was OK with that. I still enjoyed sex, just not with this finale that he wanted. It was a big deal to him, but he didn't say anthing.

WH likes sex a lot and wants it all the time. Weighing 83 lbs more than I do now, I just wasn't that comfortable with my body, I didn't really feel sexy and WH didn't do much to help "warm things up" before we started. He'd come home from work at one am and want to have sex after I'd been asleep for three hours. I tried telling him I needed more foreplay but he didn't get any better at it.

Even things (oral) that I was good at and received compliments on before being with H, he criticized and was satisfied with. Sex felt like a chore rather than something enjoyable because he never seemed pleased.

WH sought out OW to have sex with her. She delivers the "O" that he wants. While I feel better about myself after losing 83 lbs. I still worry that my H will never be satisfied by our sex life. Unfortunately, I want to work on getting to that "O" stage, but it would help if WH was there for the practice.

So I can only imagine what sex is like between H and OW.

firefly

Loworbit,

My husband told me the very same thing, that as soon as we got married it stopped being fun.

(But as soon as we got married he started being this obnoxious bully, and I guess I needed intimacy and caring to be free with him, and he neeeded sex to be intimate with me.)


Anyway, I am having 'fun' sex with him now if it kills me, haha.

(Ruffled, don't worry, he is a safety boy, ALWAYS. He has a brother who is dying of HIV and Hepatitis.) And you are right. She is nothing.


{{{Firefly}}}


Um, you said 'during sex'- you have had an orgasm, though, right? Just not during sex?

So when the two of you get together, maybe you need to teach him how to please you.

I think it is important to men to feel like they are really something special in bed.

And good for you losing 83 pounds!

( I lost rather alot of weight in the past two years too, and it has gone along way toward making me feel sexy and desirable again, which is a big part of things no matter what people say. Men are visual creatures.)

Thank you all for talking about this.

Shul

Shul,

Much like trn, I already Know all about them (W & OM). Yes, that means all the details. In addition, all the thoughts and feelings that went hand in hand with the actual acts. IT started with the facts then lead into the emotional side.

Just for myself, I Had To Know. The not knowing is what was driving me crazy with "obsessing".
I won't lie though. Having to hear or read about the answers to my very specific questions was a most painful experience. OF course, the anger naturally followed any addmissions. So also be prepared to deal with that.

However, getting these questions answered was the Only thing I found that would let me deal with what had happened. I tried many of the other suggestions given out here, but they just didn't work for me.
Yes, It hurt initially, but then as I processed the information, I was able to find a way to accept that it had happened and began making decisions of where to go and what to do from there.

While I was stuck in "obsessing" about NOT Knowing things, I was trapped on a permanent gerbil wheel. (Running fast but getting NO Where!) My mind just kept going over and over ALL the possibilities, with NO Hope of ever moving on.

The answers although painful, were necessary for ME to heal myself. And I am proud to say that although my M may not be fully healed, I AM well on my way to my own personal recovery!

With that said, I'm not sure how you can deal with him sleeping with you and then going and sleeping with her. That in itself sounds like torture. (And IMO NOT a Very Good Idea at all). You really ought to rethink that approach.

In my situation, I found out the details only after the PA was over. I can only imagine the devastation of hearing any details, while knowing he is about to go and do it again. Are you ready for that?

I understand your need or want for information. I'm just not sure that you really want them while the A in ongoing. But only you can answer that one.

I believe that my interest would have been just as strong if I had caught them in the middle of the A as at the end. But again that's me.

Truly, Some out there need details, some don't.
But what we all do is not the issue, its what YOU do that IS! If you fall into the DO need to know category, then ask. If after the fact you decide you can't handle it, then Stop and don't ask for any more.

Be forewarned that getting to the "truth" is more a marathon then a sprint. Because as you get your initial questions answered, this will spurn others.
It can take a while to get them all out. You both need to be prepared for this. Its not just one and done. NOT by a long shot. But to finally get to stop obsessing, is in my opinion worth some uncomfortable discussions, on both your sides.

(Also its a safe bet that you will catch him in some lies and omissions. These are the absolute worst to deal with). Thats one huge reason WS DO NOT like to talk about the A. They can't keep their lies straight.

Remember this process is not a one size fits all. YOU are going to have to feel your way to your own recovery. Unfortunately, some of this is just trail & error, as what works for one couple & situation does not work in another. There are as many differences as similarities in all the stories here. Wish it was more cut and dry for you.

In any case, If this dominates your thinking then consider doing it. Otherwise you'll never get any rest or peace from your own thoughts. IT can be quit maddening.

Indeed, once done, YOU'LL find out for yourself if it is a benefit or a detriment to your situation.

One last thought: If you do ask then do your best to use the info. to find out about your H and not make it so much about comparing yourself with the OW. Yes, there will naturally be some of that but do your best to not make that your focus.
A's really are more about our WS then the OP (or even us for that matter, as hard as that is to accept).

I wish you only success in whatever course you decide is best for YOU and your M. TAKE Care

I hope I don't hurt anyone by just saying here that I have been both: betrayed and OW (different Rs).

And I know the pain of BOTH (and yes, OWs hurt, too).

But I just have to say that it made me really research... I have talked to almost 100 men in person about this, and may talk to many more... in the process of writing a book.

The truth is, everyone and every situation is different, but the way that you imagine your mate's sexual relationship with someone else being very much related to yours is most likely NOT the case.

It is not proof that you mean ANY less to him, etc. than if he were only being with you.

MANY men are capable of having more than one important relationship at a time... with neither causing the other to mean any less to them.

When I was betrayed, I was devastated. More than a year later, in talking to him, I really SAW what had happened inside of him.

He had loved me.
He had loved her. (She was his ex.)

(He was very, very good to me -- and so supportive in every way. The betrayal ended us.)

Anyway, his words to me were this: "When I was with her, I was completely with her. You were still a part of me, and if you'd needed me, I'd have come running, but I was WITH her. When I was with you, I was completely WITH you. But if she'd had an emergency, I'd have had to go... somehow. When I was apart from both of you, I loved you both, the way you love your teenage child and your newborn at the same time. One doesn't take away from the other."

I have heard the same story from many men in current emrs, as well as formerly in emrs.

EXCLUSIVITY and LOVE are not synonyms. They just aren't.

I know what it is to lie in bed and think of "them" together... the pain is terrible.

But it was never about me.

It was about the fact that someone I loved loved me -- AND someone else.

If it's not workable for you. It's not WORKABLE.

But it's not ABOUT you... it's not about any lack in your R. or anything the OW has that you "haven't got."

It's about the dynamics between THOSE TWO PEOPLE, ONLY.

This is my swan song here.

I won't be back.

I wish you all well

Cecily

I am not sure what to make of that.

In our case, he doesn't have an emotional attachment to her. It is a sort of business arrangement- like prostitution.

I would be much more concerned if he had feelings for her, but he is barely capable of emotional intimacy with me, and not at all with her or anyone else.

And I agree that it isn't about me.In fact I have decided not to think about it when I am with him, just to focus on being with him and pleasing him. I am not letting her steal what time and opportunity I have to love him. She has taken enough from us. I am taking back what belongs to me.

One thing struck me just now, though...I recall talking to someone ( a man) who told me that men are much more jealous than women, in general. (The 'Spirit of Jealousy' is actually mentioned in scripture, I forget where.)

I wonder if it is a kind of male territorial thing, like dogs who pee on every tree and blade of grass...

I think I will start praying this concerning my husband, that he would feel very protective of me.

Maybe it is a case of they can dish it out, but when the shoe is on the other foot...

(Some male insight would be helpful here.)


Shul