Family,

Thanks for your prayers, I will be praying for you too.

I'm trying to understand why the WS is so angry towards us the BS.

Does is stem from their guilt?

Does it stem from our pain that they cause?

Maybe they want us to hate them, it would make them feel better about leaving or maybe its a way of getting response from us? Who knows.

When he was still at home, they only time he will say nasty or mean things if the OW was still in the picture. There was a span of three weeks, we were working on our marriage and I believe he didn't have contact with the OW. I was starting to have hope again and even thinking about forgiving the OW if she was true to her word that she was working on her marriage. (which was a lie) When contact resumed thats when the anger towards me return. Thats how I could tell if he was in contact with her, just by the way he treated me.

One thing I didn't do was lash out on him. One time I called him an ***hole. He got angry and walked out. That was the only thing I did out of anger, I don't regret saying it, because he was acting like one, but he didn't want to hear it. I didn't make demands on him, but I think I called home more often, just to keep my mind from wondering.

The OW claimed that her H was making to many demands. He turn off their phone, read her email and wanted to know where she was 24/7. He wanted her to stop contact with my H. (duh) She was trying to make herself as the victim and her H the crazy one with the outrageous demands. She couldn't possibly live under those conditions.

She was also at the time still in contact with my MIL. My MIL was believing she was really interested in making her marriage work. The OW was hoping that I would be bitter and angry (like her H), so it would make her look better in my MIL eyes. Guess what it didn't work. My in-laws are on to her now and all the lies she has told. They don't trust her.

Yes, there was apart of me that was angry and bitter, but people didn't need to see that. It makes you look like the crazy one. I was going to take the high road. Which I did.

Remember the WS is not themselves. Before I found out about the A, everything seemed to be fine. I do remember him asking me if I was happy. I told him I'm happy with us, but the situation of me working two jobs, being tired and not having enough free time, no I'm not happy with that. I love my H and never doubt his love for me. I still believe he still loves me.

Remember even the "I Love You's" are threatening to them. They feel we are too clingy. They want to make us feel that we are the wrong doers, not them. Hang tough. Pray and work on yourself. I know its easier said then done.

I just saw your post.

Don't feel guilty about knowing whats going on with your wife. You need to protect yourself and your marriage.

Sometime I wanted to know all the detail about the A and sometime I didn't want to know because it would hurt to much.

I didn't snoop too much. I just check his gym bag and wallet everyday, where he keep most of his items from her like letters, cards and receipts of the places they went too. I photocopied everything.

As for the question "When will this end?" I'm still waiting myself for that answer.

How could she go from calling him the phone for the first time in May to sleeping with him on 6-2?

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

1FamilyMan,

I was in a bad funk earlier but I have shook it. I am with you there on the end thing. My WW confessed early so I trusted her. That made it easy for continue as I was not suspicious.

She kept confessing and swearing it was over and it wasn't.

We had a hurtful night tonight, but she has finally seemed repentent for what she did. I hope and pray that is true and not another up before a down. I have a good feeling about this one, but am deathly afraid of driving her to him by doing something wrong. What do you do when everything seems wrong?

I would say to you that it will eventually be over and it will end. Here is what keeps me going.

1-The hope that it will end and my marriage will be restored. I try to focus on what she means to me, not what she has done.

2-As I have gotten older, it has become more and more apparent to me that there is really only one thing the world cannot steal from me: my integrity. My WW may have wronged me, but there are thing I just WON'T DO. Regardless of how the chips fall in my situation, I am going to come out of it KNOWING I did my best. Helps with the hurt (most times). To those who matter to me, they will see that I did not compromise my integrity. When I promise something to the WW, I keep it. She has broken plenty to me.

Yes, you can "cheat" to win, but when you win that way and lose your self-worth (NOT your pride, but the sense of who you are, the sense of your ACTIONS and your COMPASSION defining you as a man) what have you got left? Zip.

It is almost like standing up to a bully in the schoolyard. You might be scared of the outcome, but at least you made your STAND. Only in this case, it is NOT a stand of defiance with your WW, but a stand on principles that you will refuse to do what is wrong.

Be cautious that you don't be haughty towards her because you are walking out and meeting her needs. Be the best husband you can. I don't personally know (yet), but from what I see from this site, WHEN she realizes what she has done, she will be the best wife to YOU she can.

Haven't really considered the fact that mine might not and may leave. Hurts too much to think that way. But if it happens, at least I will go down fighting for my marriage, not licking my wounds and wondering what happended.

I am NOT saying you are doing this, 1Fam, your posts seem to say YOU ARE doing your best. I am just trying to tell you what goes through my head when I am trying to psych myself up to face her.

I can't always do it myself and was very hurt this evening. Just trying to help the best I can for you. Just want to let you know what gets me through. Just want to let you know you aren't alone and will pray for you.

You got to do what you got to do to keep sane. Specially for your kids. I worry about mine, too.

ncwalker

Ok... take what I write with a grain of salt, cause I'm so angry for you...

I think you should kick her out. No-one deserves to be treated this way. Kick her out, let her go to OM and let real life pop the 'stupid bubble' that she is living in.

Also, stop checking up on her. You already know. Checking is just torturing yourself, and if you get caught, she will use it to berate you some more.

Oh yeah, stop taking that abuse from her. Find a non-LBing way to cut the convos short. Don't let her disrespect you.

dewt

What is wrong with her?

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

.....

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

glad I could help. I'm sorry about the resulting news

cwmac

1Familyman...I can feel your pain...When I started checking my WH phone bill online, he used something like 2,000 minutes to OW alone. He had no idea that I was checking his phone online. Then when I THOUGHT we were in recovery, I let him know...then he started using a callling card and calling her from pay phones. So take my advice and DO NOT LET HER KNOW you know about these calls. She find other ways of calling him.

WS's are very good liars. I is absolutley amazing that they were once the one person youcould trust in the world and now they can look in straight in the face and lie to you without blinking an eye.

We went on a Family vacaction to Disney world, returned on 1/7/04 and my WH called OW the first time on 1/8/04 and I believe he was in bed with her the next week.

We have been thru 2 false recoveries now. I pray everyday he wil come home, but he has to make that decison himself.

I would suggest taht you do kick your wife out of the house. If she wants to have this A, that is her choice, but she should not be able to do it under your nose. MY WH did it for 6 weeks during our first false recovery. The last one he did it one night and I kicked him out the next day.

I feel your pain familyman...but try not to LB her. It is soooo hard...but if she is out of the house, I think it is easier to do a good Plan A. JMHO. I got very angry when my WH was in the house and doing this under my nose. good luck to you

FamilyMan, your wife has NO REASON to end her affair. She can live at home and rub your nose in it every day while having all the comforts of home. The bad thing for you is that while she is getting away with all this, her respect for you is completely eroding. As a woman, I can only tell you that I would find it hard to ever love someone I had no respect for.

I am sorry to be harsh, but you need to realize that you are only a victim ONCE, after that you are a volunteer. And your volunteerism in this case is doing nothing but destroying your marriage and your family.

If you don't do something, WHO WILL? Certainly not your love lorn wife who is completely out of her mind.

The things your W is doing are outright destructive and she should not be allowed to continue to inflict damage on you and your children. It is your job to protect yourself and your kids FROM HER.

So, the job falls to you, 1FamilyMan. I had suggested Plan B before and will suggest it again IF you EVER want any hope of getting your marriage back. If you take a firm stand and tell her that you will pass on her antics and will take her up on her offer to move, she MIGHT regain some respect for you if you follow through. Help her pack and load her things and wish her the best. After she is out, then send her a nice little Plan B letter and cut off contact.

This will give her a chance to see the REAL WORLD without 1familyman and may just wake her up. As it is, she has no reason to quit her disgusting behavior and can go on FOREVER like this. And why not if she can get away with it?

Plan B will also help her learn to RESPECT you if you set up boundaries. And you need to teach her to respect you if you want her to ever fall in love with you again.

Well said M2-3B's and Mel.

I don't think she'll leave. I can't leave. There is no legal separation in Florida, only divorce. She will want to stay in the house with the kids and force me out. If I go won't it be considered family abandonment by the D judge?

<small>[ June 13, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: 1Family Man ]</small>

I don't want her to pursue the D, and make a mistake we can't recover from. We will have a nasty D I think. Over child custody. She is trying to count the money she'll get after the D already.

1FamilyMan, absolutely you shouldn't leave and the kids shouldn't leave. She has to leave. She is an unfit parent right now and you are all they have.

But I would try and get her to leave. Hadn't she offered this before? I don't believe she wants a divorce or she would have already filed. She just wants a flop house from which she can carry on her affair and get her needs met by 2 men.

Try approaching her about leaving first and see what happens. If she doesn't I would consider a legal separation getting her legally removed.

She did say she would leave one time when I said I wouldn't. There is no Legal Separations in Florida. Only Divorce.

If I convinced her to leave, I'd still have to pay all those bills. Probably have to pull the kids out of catholic school and pull my daughter out of her gymnastics. It would hurt the kids terribly.

She does have a friend who is separating from her husband, should I suggest she moves there for awhile.

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

I think it is imperative that you see a lawyer. You need to inform yourself in terms of what your options are. It is very possible that if you leave it could be considered abandonment. She must be the one to leave and if the current trend continues, it should be soon.

She is walking all over you. This will continue for as long as you allow it. Plan A is not about being a doormat.

I feel that you are headed for a disaster if you don't take a proactive and determined stance on a few key issues.

dewt

1FamilyMan, why is it your issue where she moves? She is a big girl who does not want to contribute to the family, why should she get all the benefits? She is a grown woman who is fully capable of taking care of herself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1Family Man:
<strong>

If I convinced her to leave, I'd still have to pay all those bills. Probably have to pull the kids out of catholic school and pull my daughter out of her gymnastics. It would hurt the kids terribly.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would give her some pocket money to start off with and let her figure out the rest. You shouldn't finance her affair.

In the meantime, I wouldn't disrupt the kids' lives anymore than they have already been disrupted. They have been hurt enough. What is REALLY hurting your kids is having a MOTHER who acts like an alley cat in heat.

Believe me, that is hurting them much worse than the lack of gymnastics!

Hi 1Family Man. I feel your pain. I'm in a similar but not nearly as vicious situation. My WH and I get along great in all ways except his EA. We can spend the day together and have a good time but he's "in love" with OW and, of course, as they all say, our love died gradually over the years. That's fog talking since he never indicated for a moment that his love for me died, that is until she came along. At present, he won't leave her, although he is starting to see some problems in lover-land. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time until she hangs herself (literally, I hope - oops, did I say that?) Seriously, she's starting to show him some of the uglier sides of her personality and I think reason will win out.

I'm not saying my way is right or that it's going to work but despite advise from others to go to plan B, I really feel we didn't give plan A a try. I'm being the best spouse I can be, trying to be upbeat and positive although that's hard, even with Zoloft, but NOT meeting his emotional needs that she is meeting. He knows when he institutes NC, I will be happy to do EVERYTHING possible for him. I know he may fence sit for some time but in the end, I think, he'll come around. If I throw him out she will move in with him before I can slam the door behind him because she's with her parents now and is dying to get out. I understand how you feel about not wanting to be the one to make the move.

Now, I do agree with the others in that if she does leave, you shouldn't finance her move. Let her worry about how to pay for things. You didn't cause the A to happen. You weren't the one who decided to abandon the marriage vows and God's plan for your life together. She made that choice and continues to choose it. You are doing everything you can and then some. Certainly more than most people are willing to endure. I'm doing the same and I don't know now if it's stupidity or valor; only time will tell but I applaud you for doing everything you can for the sake of your family.

If you want to talk directly, email me at
orchfan51@aol.com.
God bless and hang in there.
Andi
PS What is LB? I've never come across that one before.

never mind...I know what LB is. It just didn't register when I saw it as LBing! Duh. Now who's in the fog????