Hey 1FamilyMan,
Sorry it is so bad right now. I do agree with you about snooping. As long as you can bear what you see, you really need to know what she is up to. That is your only protection right now.

Have you given any thought to my suggestion to counsel with Steve Harley? I think you are in such a difficult situation that it will require the BEST in the business to resolve this one.

What all did your MC say in your session? Did I miss that post? I caught the part where she is going to tell your W she must end the affair but didn't see anymore than that.

1FamilyMan,

No advice. Just a hug and an "I hear ya, you're OK in my book."

I have been pressed heavily to put you in my prayers after reading your thread. Yours is one of the stories I have been following. I have been off for some time. Some consider me to be a "manly man". I am a soldier. I am not a quitter. Those that know me know me as capable, a "go to" guy for solving problems. Never quit. Never back down from a challenge.

Oh, and I cry.

I am confident in my masculinity and I cry. I have addressed my church and been in tears during the address. All I can give you is my opinion, and I hope it means something to you. I don't think badly of you for crying. I don't consider it a sign of weakness. You are slogging it out in a tough situation. Tougher than the one I am in.

When the dust settles, hold your head up, look to the Lord, and he will be looking back and smiling. You will get the "Well done, good and faithful servant," from him. Regardless of the outcome, you will have peace in the future if you have done your best. It sounds like you have. Know what? Your kids will see that too. Maybe not today. But they will.

I have been in a kind of a quote slinging mood. Here are a few for you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Like a man traveling in foggy weather, those at some distance before him on the road he sees wrapped up in the fog, as well as those behind him, and also the people in the fields on each side, but near him all appears clear, though in truth he is as much in the fog as any of them. - Benjamin Franklin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife thinks she is thinking clearly. You seem to be reaching as much as humanly possible. She is in the fog. One day, she will realize it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They that will not be counseled, cannot be helped. If you do not hear reason she will rap you on the knuckles. - Benjamin Franklin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife may need this rap on the knuckles. If what you have been telling us is true, most assuredly she is going to get one. You stay your course. I have read you post and vent. You have a good head on your shoulders and should have no shame for your actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He that lives upon hope will die fasting. - Benjamin Franklin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have read any of my posts, you will know that I am spiritual. So this at first sounds like a contradiction to my nature. But it is not. You have hope for your M in an extraordinary trial, I can see that from your posts. But you are also executing some wise choices, what shame in that? In the same vein,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's best not to count a dragon out of your plans if there happens to be one living nearby. - JRR Tolkein </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, you know your spouse. If you have prayed and made peace with your decision, God will not be angry. You haven't said you have done anything I have heard as being wrong.

Don't EVER second guess a decision to do the right thing. It is better to take some lumps doing the right thing than avoid them and do the wrong thing. You'll sleep better at night. You said you don't know what you'll do without her? Trust me - if you act contrary to your nature (which I see as good and compassionate) you WON'T want to live with yourself. Kind of a precursor to living with her. In that vein, I'll leave you with these two and I will then shut up.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Be in general virtuous, and you will be happy. - Benjamin Franklin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Always do right. That will gratify some of the people, and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Melody, TY

NCWalker,

I too, I guess always considered myself a manly man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . I'm an officer in a metropolitan fire department. I command to fire station with two companies assigned. I ran our union for 7 years and to many people, both inside and outside my organization, I was a "go to guy". My men respect me, but what will happen after this? What kind of respect can you have for a man that can't take care of his own family.

I sacrificed a lot. Not for myself, I thought I was doing the right thing as a man. Securing a future for my family and my wife. Worked second and sometimes third jobs so my WW could stay home and be there for the kids. Haven't had a decent car in 10-years, sent the kids to private school, spending $1,000's each year on gymnastics and sports. Not complaining, I thought that was what you were supposed to do as a family man. I'd rather deny myself than my family.

I appreciate your quotes, I too am a collector of sorts. I have always tried to practice "doing right, rather than being right." Everyone that knows about this is telling me I'm a good man and that she'll regret it one day.
But, how good of man could I have really been, for her to do this (not just the A, but the whole internet-phone-long distance A with aspirations of marriage.) she doesn't even really know this man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Everyone she knows is probably telling her what a great woman she has been, and I drove her to it and am getting what I deserve. Telling her to do what she has to to be happy.

Who is right?

Melody, my counseling session is under "counseling session first time... explain" I bumped it for you.

1FamilyMan,

Fireman huh? Did you ever respond to a fire where people lost their lives even though you were doing your best? Were you wrong then? Sometimes things happen that are unfortunate.

Even better, when you were a rookie, did you ever make a MISTAKE that caused someone to lose a life in a fire? People make mistakes with some unfortunate consequences, especially in critical jobs. The “that should not have happened” mistake. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “wrong,” just inexperienced. It would be a different story if they were being negligent. But what if they are just untrained? If the fire chief sends a rookie into a situation he isn’t ready for, and the rookie fails and someone dies, whose “fault” is that? I would say the fire chief. Unless he had no one else available to send and the rookie was the best shot with long odds.

You are/were a “rookie” in your marriage. So was I. I didn’t take a course on how to be a husband. Eventually, I started reading materials, but runawaypot (my wife) and I were seldom working on the marriage at the same time.

My kids will have it different. I will be very motivated to ensure that they are exposed to MB and similar information when their marriages START. My parents did not do this for me, did yours?

Thought not. How can you say you are wrong?

Was your wife “wrong” for being dissatisfied in her marriage? No, not if you were not meeting her needs. The “wrongness” only comes in to play when you talk about what we choose to do in the bad situation. Your wife’s affair was WRONG. Yes, she deserved to be happy. But did she communicate to you in an effective way (NOT nagging, b*tching, or yelling) that she was unhappy? My wife did not. I also did not communicate effectively to her. Your wife chose the “quitter’s route.” Met her needs out of desperation. She has a H who would have been willing to meet them, if only he KNEW.

Just like making a mistake in a fire, the two of you CAN recover, but it is the wisest one (at this point, YOU) who will have to lead the way.

As to her “friends” who are telling her all that cr*p: people by nature love misery and scandal. Look at the popularity of Jerry Springer. Look at soap operas. Let’s you and I try and start a soap opera with a story line that is positive, upbeat and pleasant. How well would it go over with the adults? It wouldn’t. It has been tried several times “Barney”, “The Teletubbies” are a few tries that come to mind.

Not letting you off that easy 1Fam, you’re still aces in my book.

NCWalker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1Family Man:
<strong> WW is still planning trip to be with OM, I think now though it will be after the 4th. The 4th is my favorite holiday and I didn't want her to be gone at that time, but that was two weeks ago. Now I'm almost dreading having her home.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she's leaving the home and leaving the kids to be with OM can't you get her for abandonment? Granted it may be only for a visit but how do you know that? Even a couple of days should be enough to get a temporary custody order and to change the locks. Especially if the kids are old enough to want to stay with you. I don't know it's just a thought.

Well went and got a truck yesterday. It's exactly what I was looking for, a little more than I wanted to spend but I figured I couldn't wait any longer for the "right" deal. I just hope I'll be able to keep it after the "D". I was kind of excited to get it, but kind so sad that I didn't have anyone to share it with. Like my wife.

Came home around 10pm last night with the truck so WW didn't know until this morning when she got up and left the house. I know she is fuming - I will be punished somehow.

I am going to grocery shopping today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ... first time in a long long long time. I got the advice to do the shopping myself rather than give her the cash, which she apparently is spending on other things.

Also, haven't told WW about seperate account that I set up to pay the bills. I fear her reaction. Do you think it will send her even further over the hill? I feel the stuff I am doing to protect myself and kids is pulling the rug out from under our already collapsing marriage.

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1Family Man:
<strong>

Also, haven't told WW about seperate account that I set up to pay the bills. I fear her reaction. Do you think it will send her even further over the hill? I feel the stuff I am doing to protect myself and kids is pulling the rug out from under our already collapsing marriage.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FM, it's ok if she gets mad about it. Plan A doesn't mean assuaging the WS at you and your children's expense.

The rug is already being pulled out from under your marriage and she is already over the hill, believe me. You still have to protect yourself and the kids from her.

You can't sacrifice your financial security to assuage a WS hellbent on destroying you. So, don't worry about it. Nothing is off limits when it comes to protecting your children and your financial security. That is your FIRST priority.

<small>[ June 24, 2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Here's an excellent overview of Plan A by Cerri (who is a MB trained coach):


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)

Now, Plan B IS all about you, the betrayed partner. It's about getting you out of and away from a situation that is horribly painful and, let's face it, degrading. Plan B is taking the stance that enough is enough and that although you want the marriage to succeed you will no longer be part of a triangle. And that you care enough about the marriage to know that you need to protect the love you still have for your partner.

Now, nowhere in any of that is the idea that the faithful partner needs to make life easy and comfy for the straying spouse!! No need to bend over backwards to be a doormat. Certainly no need to be afraid to trigger guilt!! Good god!! They should feel guilty!!!

TY Melody, but it is so hard. So painful. Continuous agony.

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

Very well stated, Mel.

1FamilyMan, who is this guy? Do you know anything about him? Is there any way you can cut off her money supply?

Mel,

Yes I can shut off some of the money. That is why I'm going to attempt to do the grocery shopping, I know it won't be good enough for her though.

My son came to me this morning, he read his horoscope, and it said that he would have a residence change this year and a change of his daily surroundings. He was acting a little freaky.

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

Las Vegas is a fine place for kids. Lots of people there have families. I think he is saying "don't bring the kids".

Your story is just so unbelievable. It goes to show how crazy and addicted WS's can get. Your wife is not thinking clearly at all.

I think this whole thing will fizzle out. It is just one big fantasy.

Oh, congratulations on the new truck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1Family Man:
<strong> Mel,
I know his phone number and I'm pretty sure I know his name. He lives in North Las Vegas and says he is trying to sell his house. They have talked about him moving to Texas possibly and looking for houses there. I don't really know what is going on... they do most of their talking on the phone. Over 100 phone calls to him last month. He said Vegas isn't a good place for kids. I don't know if he was inferring not to bring them, or that they should move someplace else.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FM, it will be up to you to protect your kids from this nonsense. You are the only one they have since she has lost her mind. Your wife can't possibly be allowed to run off with your children to some strange state with some scumbag she met on the internet.

Have you confronted her with all you know? I think she should be confronted and I think you should also tell her that she won't be taking your kids off somewhere with some creep she met on the internet. I would not give away my source of intelligence, of course.

It would be real helpful if you could find out if this man is married. If he is, you might be able to blow the top off this nonsense real quick with a call to his wife. If you have his #, why not try calling when you think he is not there and seeing if you can find a wife? I would disguise your caller ID, though.

You can also do a background check on him over the internet and find out where he works, his criminal background, etc.

Another thing to consider would be calling him yourself and having a little chat with him. Steve Harley once recommended this to one of our members in order to give the OP a realistic view of the BS. He thought it would make a difference if he was able to see the BS as a real person instead of a myth fabricated by the WS.

He also told the man to say: "What are your intentions with my wife?" You might expand on that and ask him what his intentions are for your wife and CHILDREN? And ask him if he is a good provider because they will need to be supported. That might wake him up a bit!!

See, to him, this is probably an internet fantasy. But to your wife it is the REAL DEAL. I mean, how silly is it to sacrifice your family for a person you have NEVER MET!? She is clearly in fantasyland yet he is probably not serious about this at all.

<small>[ June 24, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I haven't ever done a background check myself so I can't recommend one company over the other. However, I did find this one called peoplefinder.com. It shows marriages, divorces, criminal records, neighbors names, etc.

http://www.people-finders.ws/?vw=background&site=6&from=7951

But it can't fizzle till they actually have to deal with each other. Actually see the toilet seat up and toothpaste in the sink. They, or at least WW is delusional, a fairy tale fantasy.

I can start over, get off shift work, get a 40hr job on staff, change my life. I'm scared to death about how these kids will be affected and develop because of this. WW believes it will only be good for them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

She has done this before?

I wouldn't offer her any deal to keep the kids at all. I would find a better lawyer who would help you protect yourself financially and protect your kids.

family man -

Is there any possibility you could make some appointments to talk to the Harleys or Penny (at saveyourmarriagecentral)?

It is expensive, but may save you money in the long run. They are experts and may be able to help you in just a few sessions.

I did not get counseling and now regret it. My WH kept saying he was going to get rid of OW. What he really meant was that he was going to get rid of all of our marital assets having fun, fun, fun with her.

Mel, it was over 16 years ago. We were both young, I attributed it to immaturity after I got over the pain. She left me out of the blue for another guy, 3 different times over 7 years of dating. It never lasted more that 6-8 months with any of them.

Since we've been married she's done somethings that make me insecure. Mostly finding internet connections to different guys over the past 10 years. Never progressed to an EA or PA that I'm aware.

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>