I don't have any experience in telling the OP's spouse.

You might consider writing a letter to the OM's W... I wouldn't go over in person (No Contact) and I wouldn't ask your H to go over with you and expose him to the shame and pain of talking with the OM...

I do believe that the OM's W does deserve to know what's going on in her own M... But be prepared for her to side with the OM and not believe you... Either way, you've given her something to think about and I'm sure that the OM won't be so quick to drive by your house and wave at you or your H anymore...

Perhaps some others can offer some better advice.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

This is me too,

How could he say such passionate things then change his mind?? How could he shut off so easily.??

It does hurt more than ending it. If I hadn't have ended it I know I would still be in this 'illusion' of foggy love and truly believing I could have BOTH H and OM in my life.

It's crazy but sometimes I wish I hadn't ended it... I could have just had a txt relationship but no phys...More foggy talk...

I wish I could just end it all.

Me... Kas.....Was strong at beginning of NC.... Now in serious withdrawal.... Now wanting desperately to contact OM........ Even more turning to Escapism......

To give an example of how

I want to know why. Why did you pick me? Why could you seem so caring, loving, passionate, and then shut off so easily? That almost hurts more than ending it. Feeling so discarded so easily.

Dear Just Learning,
Thank you for your input. I AM ASHAMED at my feelings. You are right. about all of it. My H is in excruciating pain and that is a part of why I am here. Because if I can get through this withdrawal and all, I can start to focus on our M. I am struggling with loss of feelings for H even way before A. But it's ridiculous because he is the best man I have ever known...my H. I love him, but have not felt attracted in some time. Not all his fault. i dont understand why. He is the same guy i fell madly in love with. All this hurts him so much.

Thank you for your input. i will try to step back. I am being selfish, but the draw to get out of the pain by a quick "fix", contact, or understanding or whatever, is big. You are the most correct in saying the OM had practice, and that is how he walked away so easily. That makes me feel like I have absolutely no redeeming qualities even if he did have the practice. Hard to handle, but true.

Broken Vessel,
Please just hold on till it passes. I KNOW EXACTLY what you are talking about. Please hold on. It will hurt MORE later if you dont.

God loves you and can walk with you no matter what you are doing or feeling right now. Now only if I can take that for myself

Run,
I too, want to welcome you.

Wanted to respond to a few of your comments.

There has been some topic of moving. You have also mentioned that you and your H are trying to determine how to tell OM's W.

IMHO, the two may be related.

First, the sooner the OM's W knows the better. Several reasons:

-He may use the fact of the A's exposure to his W as an excuse to try and recontact you. If that's the case better to go back to square one on withdrawal now versus a week, a month, a whatever from now.

-She deserves to know a soon as possible

-Once both BSs know it is much easier to monitor NC. You may have no desire for contact but w/out exposure of the A, he may try to contact you. Every contact sets withdrawal as well as recovery nearly back to square one.

OK now on to how the two may interelate.

Once OM's W knows you may not need to move because they may. You may even want your H to suggest it so that NC will be easier. Sounds like they may be a bit more mobile than your family.

On how to disclose:

Your H should do it in person IMHO. He should gather up whatever evidence he has, make copies and take it to her house when he knows OM won't be there.

The reason for the in person visit is to make it more believable than just a call or letter. It is very easy for the OM to paint your H as a jealous mnonster that has it out for anyone that his W spends time with.

The other party's spouse can also see the pain on you H face and will be more likely to accept the truth.

Personal experience taught me this lesson. You may even need to be standing by a telephone so your H can call you so that you can confirm the information to the OM's W.

Your H may even want to deliver a NC letter signed by you. No wishy washy talk about having a good life. Just the plain hard truth that the affair was an absolute mistake, that you can no longer have any contact and that if he does try to contact you, you will immediately inform your H as a way of trying to regain the lost trust.

Good luck.

Don't put this off to long. Do it this week if not tomorrow.

cwmac

I want to show my H your letter and see what he says. The problem with evidence is that there really is none. I f I had not revealed the A, it could have stayed hidden. I could not have handled that. My husband did have a dream that was about my A that he told me before I confessed. It really upset him... the dream at first.

The evidence of cell phone calls can be legitimate because we had a business relationship as trainer/client. it would still look like a legitimate cover,probably, to her. Any other evidence you can think of that I am not? If so, I need to know all possibilities. I wish I had some of his old cell phone messages. That would do it for sure.

Run and BV;

I too wondered why? Why did he choose me? Did he really mean everything that he said to me? Did he have any regards for my feelings at all?
I drove myself nut, absolutely nuts.

Then I had the answer: Why not?

I let him, and if it wasn't me it was going to be someone else. Oh sure, it's hard to admit that, but it's the truth.

Try very hard not to get bogged down with those questions. I realized that it was those kinds of questions that were making me think about breaking NC. I am absolutely resolute in not breaking NC. I quit smoking, I can do NC!!!

BTW, I did take up smoking again, better that then getting in touch with the OM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have found that personally a lot of thoughts towards the OM were habitual so I am having to break those bad habits. I have good days, and I have bad days. On those bad days my husband will ask me what's wrong and I will say "withdrawals" and he knows, and he just holds me. You know what that does for me, it brings the focus of everything back to my hubby and I.

Both of you sound like you are married to great guys, you are blessed. When you find yourself getting down about your OM's, think of something to bring your focus back to your husband, back to your marriage. Think about how you both are going to work through this aweful mess and come out stronger.

I hope I don't sound like I am preaching or anything like that. I'm just telling you what has been going on with me.

No contact, no contact, no contact. You will be much better off in the long run. The withdrawals will end sooner, you can look at yourself in the mirror and say, "I am working on my marriage, I am doing something about this."

Hold onto your husbands, focus on them, focus on God. The enemy wants you to be miserable and he and his little minions will do EVERYTHING they can to ruin you and everything you have and hold dear. Don't give him that satisfaction.

Runaway / Broken -

I hope by saying "you chose me" you are not releasing yourself of the guilt here. After all you made the decision to be in the A. The other person may have been the one to continue to push you both after you rejected the initial advances. You both admit to having EN's met by the OM. You chose him as much as he chose you. You may not have acted like an animal after prey but you fell into the A just the same.

I'm glad you are both here. I realize that you are both deep in the fog. I know it must be difficult for you to be on this board. I promise you will find support and understanding here.

As you both come out of the fog I hope that you remain focused on your end goal....a happy M. It will help you lift the fog and return to God and your BS.

heroswife,
I am not at all releasing myself from choosing the A. I walked all too easily and willingly into it. I do hold myself as responsible as him. Just did it differently. What is harder than ending it, is the feeling that i must be worhtless to be so easily thrown away. I have heard what all of you have said, including my H on how the OM did it, but what it really says to me is that I am not worth anything if he can walk away like that. May be stupid, but it makes me feel flattened. I felt a lot like that before the A, so the A just made it seem more real. No excuses, I am just seeing what need s to change to move on.

Runaway-

I am also a FWW...welcome! BH and I have been here at MB, reading Surviving an Affair, and in a real recovery since March. I had not realized how far I have came out of withdrawl and "fog" talk until I read your posts. This is not meant to be offensive to you. I am truly greatful for newcommers (esp. WW) to open up and talk because it shows me where I have been, where I am now...and that there is hope that it gets better!

I understand that your thoughts of WHY WHY WHY are consuming you now. It gets better.

I understand your BH has feelings of anger right now, be it directed to you or OM. It gets better.

I understand how difficult COMPLETE NC can feel right now. It gets better.

I hear how shameful you feel. I still feel so much shame. Sometimes I feel like I am going to have an anxiety attack right in the middle of the grocery story, because "OMG, there is so and so who knows so and so who told so and so and EVERYONE IN THIS SMALL LITTLE TOWN knows everything I have done." I feel shameful everyday. It has gotten better! Posting honestly and truthfuly in this forum totally helps.

Reading SAA has helped my hubby and I tremendously. Not just reading it but DOING IT!

You are a strong person for all that you have overcame and your strength will continue to see you through this difficult time. I would like to offer you my email address if you want to write more privatley. This is painful for our husbands but also for us. I remember feeling guilty for the pain I was feeling, like I wasn't entitled to express my painful feelings because I caused my hubby too much hurt he did not deserve. Sound familiar?

I will pray for you and your H. I have three little girls...we will all pray for your children as well.

Stay here at MB and learn.

xoxoxo
mom

Thank you for your posting momof3bychoice. I adore my three boys and want to get over this not only for my H but for them. Have not been a very emotionally active mom recently. I would welcome your email address b/c I would like to share but not hurt my H. I hear from what you say that it gets better. I am wanting to believe that. i cry way too much. I didn't know anyone could cry this much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Blessings to you mom.

Originally posted by runawaypot:
What is harder than ending it, is the feeling that i must be worhtless to be so easily thrown away.

Who determines your worth?
This is a REAL question...

answer it please.

WHO determines YOUR worth as a human being?

Pep

I felt like such a terrible mom for a very long time. Like such a selfish woman. You are trying to put your family back together now. You are doing a good thing. It is okay to cry. I tend to "bottle up" and when H sees me holding back tears he says "it's okay...let it out honey...it's okay to cry," then the dam breaks. Like I need his permission to cry...I really don't. E-mail addy is ...don't know how else to give it to ya more "privatley" write soon!
i may edit out the addy later.

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: momof3bychoice ]</small>

oh and runaway:

Listen to Pepper, I have learned so much.

xoxo

Good for all of you. I do know that one of the best ways to heal is to put all your feelings here, and ask for HELP. I can't tell you how many times people here have given me support and a listening ear.

It makes a huge difference.

Zip on over to recovery forum

Look at thread by SKM...

Called:

The SKM chronicles....

good fog lifting descriptions there...

Pep

Got the email momof3bychoice if you can take it out now. Thanks. To all of you, thankyou.

Pepperband,
I know it is God who gives me my worth. My MIND knows that. I can't seem to practice it. I definitely feel in the pit, trying to scratch my way out.

I want to get hold of God's opinion, but somehow that OM's opinion or lack of, as now is the case, screams at me.

My H just came home. I was happy to tell him I had been on MB almost all day...OOPs. Survival time, I guess. I told him I could really use a walk alone or a ride alone. The ride alone upset him, as I could imagine. Just because I have set my heart in the NC mode doesn't mean he is going to believe it yet. Nix the ride. But he didn't want me to take a walk either b'c we live in the same neighborhood. I would never "drop" by their house anyway because he is with his family. Even though the OM wanted me to get friendly with his wife. I think it somehow made everything okay, or maybe insured I would not tell. I never did that though, because, regardless of my ability to have the A, I could not become friends with her in that way. So I would not be walking by their house or dropping in. I just want out of these four walls and able to breathe a little while. he doesn't want me to do that either. I understand, but it is so hard when in the bottom of a depressive time. I also get no peace with my H right now. It is so heavy because he is angry and hurt. He goes through times of kindness, but the hurt overwhelms him and he gets harsh. Understandable. I feel like a prisoner. Of my own making? Guess so. Thanks to you guys, I do have an outlet right now. God bless.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Even though the OM wanted me to get friendly with his wife. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have you any idea how creepy this MM is?

yech! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Here's a little tip in life to you from me (a really older big sister <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) ....

Creepy men do not determine your worth. Ever.

And one more tip....

Feelings are temporary. Always.

Pep

Runawaypot,

Are you aware that anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as fear, pain, etc? If you realize this you can often defuse your H's anger by simply asking what is bothering him? The pain, the fear, ... It will cause him to pause and identify the source of the anger.

I am betting he is more angry with himself than you. He wants to stay and rebuild the marriage, but he feels like you fooled him so bad before that he is a weak fool for rebuilding the marriage. These two parts of him will rage for quite awhile and as they do, you will see anger.

If you really do choose him, tell him so. If you really do love him tell him so. If you really are impressed that he is staying, tell him so.

I realize from your perspective all of the focus is on you. In someway it is, but it is often true the BS struggles with internal issues more than issues with the BS. Please realize this and as you can address their issues. You can actually do this by initiating discussions about how the A has affected him and you, and ask asking him questions. It is hard to do, but it seems to help recovery and even refocusing of the WS.

This is tough stuff RAP, hang in there you can do it.

God Bless,

JL

It is a little creepy, isn't it? He is from another country, and I don't want to give him an excuse, but I think it might be a normal mentality for the males there to have their "girlfriends." Not for his wife, though.

Thanks for all the input. Got to go be with the family now. It sounds silly, but I don't know how I would do this right now without MB. I feel like I might actually have a life preserver in you "angels" out there. Blessings...and I will try to understand my H and his anger more.

runaway - and this goes double for Kas - the best way to really free yourself in the near term and do the right thing in the process is to write a no contact letter to OM and send a separate copy to OM's wife.

Anything less and you are helping the OM conceal his part of the crime.

Don't manufacture any excuses like some "higher authority" will take care of this. It won't happen. Even IF some higher authority does this, you wouldn't get the chance to unload your burden.