Originally posted by runawaypot:

Wow. I don't even want to share my problems with you now. You deserve lots of support.

Thanks. I have lots of support. Actually, for the moment, things are going well.


It sounds like you are a very loving parent.

I've had my Cruella De Ville moments, believe me!

We've also had lots of therapy, and lots of help from various agencies. parenting classes up the ying-yang.

I know your child will look back and see how God blessed him with a parent like you. It may be when he has kids himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but he will see.

From your mouth to God's ears!

edited to add: Our goal these last few years has been pretty simple. 1. Keep him alive. 2. Keep him out of jail.

so far so good....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Finally Learning...

How are you TODAY???

Pep (your cyber stalker) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

FL, my friend. I didn't realize things had taken this turn for you in your life. I have read your thread here, and there is one part I wanted to comment on that stood out for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it all sounds great on paper but i also want intimacy, my body and soul really needs it right now!!!! not that being with the OM would do much for my soul, but if i let it i could pretend it did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is how I felt when my FWH left me. I couldn't sleep. Couldn't eat. I longed for him, for intimacy and touch and love. Then, I discovered something. I discovered that I had the ability to give myself all of those things. And, from reading your posts, it does sound to me like you are discovering that for yourself, as well.

For sleeping, I bought an electric blanket - it was winter here. I snuggled down with that and a good book at night, and I was downright content!

For the touch part, I heard from someone that when her H left her, she scheduled massages each month to fulfill her need of touch. You are still getting some of that, I think, but with all the jogging, it may still be a good idea!

Intimacy. I found intimacy with myself. With God. In the Bible, is says that the only love we NEED on this earth is His. HE should be the one we are in love with first. HE is the only one we cannot live without. When I felt overflowing with love and longing, I gave it to God, and I felt embraced by Him. I felt Him holding me in his Hand, keeping me safe and warm. And I basked in that.

True intimacy and love cannot be found from outside of yourself - not in a needy way. To love someone and be loved in return is a gift. Rejoice that you have that.

I see you taking steps in that direction. The exercise, the cinsistency, the diversity. I see you taking that part of your life, and DOING something. And it is directly in line with the person you want to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">content with her choices,
internally at peace,
able to hold her head up high, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In fact, you have inspired me. During the separation, I lost 30 pounds, that I really needed to lose. I have gained back 10. Not too bad, since the weight was not lost in a healthy way. BUT, I still have about 40 pounds left to lose. In that light, no gain is a good gain.

In the area of taking care of my body and mind, I have the same goals as yourself. Because all of those goals work for how someone feels about the outside of their body, along with the inside of their heart.

Also, I agree with Pep regarding the morals thing. I have shared with you my struggle with substance abuse. And that was a breach of my moral code. However, each day I chose to not indulge myself in what I knew was destructive behavior, the next day became that much easier. I did it one day at a time. Sometimes, one minute at a time. And that is OK. Because that is truly where we grow, is in the struggle.

So, your NC muscle will get stronger, just as my sober muscle got stronger. And perspective can make all the difference. Each time you are tempted, remember why you are having NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">content with her choices,
internally at peace,
able to hold her head up high, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, just like Susan said, one day you will wake up and say, "Wow! I am happy!"

And about telling your H about this site, I think it is OK to seek help and guidance for yourself, for your M, and for you to share that with him if/when you are ready. If/when he is ready. If it is weighing heavy on your mind, perhaps it is getting close to making that decision.

Gotta go get to my step class! Today is a new day, and THIS day, when I go to bed, I will feel good about myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thank you, FL. You always teach me something!

SS

pep,

you are an awesome cyber stalker and it is extremely appreciated!!!!!

i think i am doing better today. i jogged last night, that was very good. went for 30 min non-stop, not fast but constant. i do believe i slept better because of it. i find that i really have to be strong and not let my mind wander in that direction at all. because it only takes a few minutes of remeniscing before the urge is large. what i really need to do is understand why i am not more appaulde at the whole exerience yet. i mean i kinda am, but i certainly never got to hating the OM. why would i, we were very upfront about everything. i guess that only reinforces the fact that there were no emotions involved. so many FWW's talk about having strong emotions of dislike afterwards, and of feeling used. well, i knew all along we were using each other, we made that clear on many occasions. there was some sort of twisted friendship there, but the core of it was what it was and we were both good with that. why aren't i mad enough for being good with that to keep me from reminiscing some?? i think the point is, some of me is still glad it all happened. that cannot be good!!! what does that mean? am i that terrible of a person? or worse... do i not really love my H, maybe never have?

speaking of H. he is golfing TWICE today!!! his normal "crack of dawn" on wed morning round (which woke me up at 4:30am) and then again at 2pm with 3 neighbors, kids left alone this morning (which is ok since no school) and his mom coming this afternoon to hang out with them until i get home. he estimates he will be home after 9pm.

sunday he went to driving range in the evening on his own. monday he was on a golf outing and didn't come home till well after dark with many beers in him (i was almost hoping in his drunken state he would want something sexual, but no, which may have been for the better, i'm sure i would of felt lousy afterwards anyway. we have decided one-way SF needs to stop, but since that is all that has been happening for a while, we are now doing nothing). last night he went to bed early and quickly because he had to get up so early this morning. tonight i'm sure he will be extremely tired due to golf and i'm sure multiple beers after the second round of golf.

we never see each other pep. how are things going to improve?

he has 6 rounds of golf scheduled over a period of 10 days, this is day #3. something tell me golf is his escape mechanism, what do you think?

he did mention twice recently that he probably needs to do some reading. i have after the affair in the house already, he knows it, he has not yet picked it up though.

there is just nothing i can do but live my life at this point. doing my best to enjoy the kids.

sure feels so similar to how things were in our marriage before the A. except now i have a truck load of guilt/remorse piled on top of the lonliness and frustration.

and using bob (battery operated b/f) does not even do anything for me. i'm at a point where if i never feel sexually excited again i just might not care. and that feeling s*cks even more than just being frustrated.

then there is the IC issue. I have to cancel by 1pm today. i don't think she is helpful but i still hate to tell her i am quiting. i don't like the idea of quiting, i want to go to IC. just not with her and the thought of finding a new one is hard.

soooo, other than that i'm just peachy.

speaking of H. he is golfing TWICE today!!! his normal "crack of dawn"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

on wed morning round (which woke me up at 4:30am) and then again at 2pm with 3 neighbors, kids left alone this morning (which is ok since no school) and his mom coming this afternoon to hang out with them until i get home. he estimates he will be home after 9pm.

Le'golf [censored] strikes again....

This will need to be fully POJA's ... all in good time...


we never see each other pep. how are things going to improve?

You need to focus on your personal healing and creating a home mileu where your value is irreplaceable and undisputable.

Plan-A his [censored]!


he has 6 rounds of golf scheduled over a period of 10 days, this is day #3. something tell me golf is his escape mechanism, what do you think?

Sounds likely.

gotta go

back later

Pep

SS, i'm going to have to re-read your post a few times to take it all in. but the initial huge THANK YOU that i wanted to say, i had to post immediately. THANK YOU SS!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You need to focus on your personal healing and creating a home mileu where your value is irreplaceable and undisputable.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">can't argue with that plan as it will just make me a better me and that is good for me and kids. i'm not so sure none of it will really ever make a difference for H though. I reall don't think i was that terrible of a wife before all this stuff started happening, and he was very emotionally detached from me then.

before i start down that path too much, i'll just leave it at that. neither one of us is who we were then, so i will do my best to hold off any judgements as to what i think may or may not happen and just keep trying to be the best me.

FL,
I've been lurking as much as possible. It has been quite a week for me with W and work. It seems you are doing better. You are in great hands here .... so many great friends to support you. I see such growth in you and it is good. You asked about golf? I think it is a form of addiction for some. Its one of those things that seems to fill a need. What need? I'm not sure, maybe some others here know.

You don't have to be defined by your past and live in failure. God expects us to struggle and in turn rely on His strength. He allows you to make good and bad choices. There are consequences with both. When you can see the consequneces are bad for you, you can make a better choice. Try to choose what's best for you as you want to see yourself. You laid out a definition of yourself and it is a good one. If that is where you want to be, then choose it.

I have learned many things and to me the most valuable lesson is to rely on and trust God for everything. His timing is perfect as is His plan for your life. Beleive in His purposes for you and He will help you fulfill them. He wants the best for you and His way is to remove all our pride and all our selfishness in whatever way is needed. We can then walk in His love and be givers with unconditional love and sacrifice. Then our relationships not only have a chance to survive, but they then have a chance to prosper.

It has not been long for you since dday. Give it a full year and see where you are in your M. Give it your best and you will continue to grow.
Give it to God and He will see it through.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Hi Finally Learning,
I like reading your posts because it is encouraging. You sound like you are making every effort to move on.

The mutual agreement part of the A, I am familiar with. Just somehow, my emotions did get involved. Also, not completely regretting it is something I feel at times too. And it seems sometimes to having nothing to do with the OM. It's hard to explain.

Anyway, sounds like you are doing well. I'm with ya on the exercise. It is the one thing that helps me a lot.

roman, runawaypot,

sorry to disappoint you two and everyone else here but not only did i call the OM but i made a yahoo id and played 3 games of backgammon. the backgammon is not so horrible but now i have a yahoo id again...

the phone chat with OM was no big deal. he was surprised and happy to hear my voice, asked how everything was going, if i was being good. i said yes up until the time i called him. he said it's not a problem to have just a phone call. i only talked about kids and summer plans, bearly mentioned H.

he didn't say boo about getting together, he again said good for me for behaving. i again said, i was being good until calling him cuz i am calling him cuz i want to see him, although not to start anything up again, just to see him once. he was surprised.

i asked him what his status was. he told me he was dating someone but had not commited to her, he told me he would love to get together. i told him one thing i never want to be is an OW, i asked him if he would be telling this person he was going to see me again. she was in the picture before, right at the end and knows about me already. but then i know he stopped seeing her. He said he just recently saw her again but he has no commitment to her, but he would not tell her about me. I told him all i would want to do is mostly kiss and be held but that i would make it fun for him no matter what. he says i'll want to do more once there but whatever i want is fine.

i'm putting this all down so i can see just how ugly and pathetic it all is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

roman, you said give it a year. i read that and thought "you are crazy" i can't hold on that long!!!!! this is all too hard for me. i can't take feeling so neglected. i just can't!!!! H will never heal guys. NEVER.

of course that does NOT mean i have to turn myself into a terrible person again.

i'm so disgusted with myself and at the same time i just DON"T CARE. which is really the most damaging mindset.

OM is going to call me tommorow. I'm going to tell him, I'm glad he is dating someone and I'm not getting in the middle of that. I know he will tell me he has made no commitment to this person, but i don't care. i know he will not push me, he never has, but he will tell me call anytime i want, at this point he still says i'm the best he has ever been with and would see me anytime i want. of course he will, he knows there is absolutly no emotional investment needed and the chemisty is so good between us!!!! which is true but so what???

guys, why am f*cking weak??????

WHAT ARE YOU DOING????? STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!

This is no good. You are flirting with something very dangerous, to you and your H. Very very very dangerous. Doesn't matter what you talked about. Doesn't matter what you didn't talk about. You broke NC. You broke trust. You have stepped out of integrity with yourself.

Please do not take the call tomorrow. Tell your H about the Yahoo ID. You need assistance.

Oh FL! FL!!!! Please do not do these destructive behaviors. Please please please.

I am so sad and anxious and worried about you.

SS

Ready FL ?

Here it comes... this is the 2X4 you're going to get from me today !

** Why don't you get a divorce? **

edited to add: this is an authentic question ...please answer.

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ** Why don't you get a divorce? **
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because H does not want a divorce and I don't want to do that to him. (of course now in my head i am hearing H asking, when you decided to cheat on me, why didn't you just divorce me instead?)

because we have children together that would be devestaed. and lots of other extended family members.

because kids would lose so much, a real family, the lake house...

those are the only 2 reason i can come up with.

i just can't go back to having the type of relationship we have had for the majority of our time together. i just can't stand being so insignificant to him. i can't take having such a non-emotional relationship anymore.

who cares about self-integrity.... i know that sounds stupid but i'm so unhappy in this life. my daughter called me up at work at 3pm in tears cuz she was so sad that i was at work, she is 14 and having a hard time adjusting to the fact that she is going to HS. she needs me and i need her and i can't even have a good relationship with her or my son cuz i am either gone or having to take care of the house so much. at first i said i just couldn't come home but after hanging up, i just up and left. and called OM on the way home in the car.

i feel so overwelhmed, i can't do this all on my own anymore.

i know i am making no logical sense what so ever.

i know that guys. seeing OM does NOTHING to solve any of my issues but i feel so powerless to change anything. i just want to be held for a short time, i want to feel safe and cared for. i need to be on the receiving end in some way even though the brain knows (and my heart) it means nothing.

i'm sorry i disappointed everyone. i'm mostly sorry i disappointed myself.

just to make the destructive behaviour complete, i even went and bought a pack of cigaretts too. i only had one.

OK, FL, calm down. I am not disappointed. At first, I thought I was. But I am just frightened for you.

If you don't want to be in your M, then get a separation. The way you are going about this is all bass ackwards. When you RUN from one thing to another, it is an indicator that you are undecided and confused (IMHO).

PLEASE be honest with your H. That is the part I cannot condone here. Do not take away his right to KNOW how you feel, what you are doing. That is the fear that still wakes me up screaming in the middle of the night. Please don't take away your H's choice. Be honest. That is what you have. You still have that.

I know we are just so much cyber people - you don't really know me, I don't really know you. But, I believe in you. I feel that you are a terrific person, who has gotten into some self-serving habits. You now have people who are calling you on that. Please listen. I believe in you.

I believed in my FWH, even when he didn't. I do have a pretty good judge of character (except that the OW was my "best friend" at the time - I'm still processing that).

I am praying for you. I am thinking of you. I am sending all of my positive energy your way. The truth is what you have left. Do not let the lie, the disillusion, fester and grow. Own up now.

I believe in you, FL. I do.

SS

FL,

Find a good IC. Take care of yourself. That's about being okay and learning to feel better, but it's also about being able to take good care of your kids.

lake house/lifestyle
what OM represents
husband
kids
self

Maybe you can't have it all, but you have choices. You had an affair, yes, but that doesn't mean you've given up your right to take care of yourself. What do you need in order to be okay?

Is alcohol an issue in your marriage? (I almost didn't ask this and you don't have to answer; I just wondered about a couple of your posts about husband drinking a lot in connection with the golf.)

I'm not in any way suggesting that OM is a good "choice," but it sounds to me like he represents something that you feel is essential, and I hope you can sort out how to obtain it in a healthier manner.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Intimacy. I found intimacy with myself. With God. In the Bible, is says that the only love we NEED on this earth is His. HE should be the one we are in love with first. HE is the only one we cannot live without. When I felt overflowing with love and longing, I gave it to God, and I felt embraced by Him. I felt Him holding me in his Hand, keeping me safe and warm. And I basked in that.
True intimacy and love cannot be found from outside of yourself - not in a needy way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SS, like i said when i first read your post... I needed to re-read your message a few times in order to try to take it in.

last night i read from a book called A Woman and Her God. it is a collection of chapters written by different authors, each topic stands on its own. and the chapter i read talked about the exact same thing you said. "He should be the one we are in love with first." why is it so hard for me to totally digest and comprehend how to do that on a concrete level?

i read it again this morning before i left for work and tried to meditate on it more and in my prayer this morning I asked God to help me understand better.

before reading last night i did talk to H too, he got home around 8:30, he was there when kids and i came home from pool. after they were in bed, I told him how fragile i was feeling and that i didn't know what to do when i was feeling that way. i feel like i am supposed to learn to not NEED a relationship with him but that seems so wrong. and yet in a way that is exactly what you are saying SS and that is exactly what the book was saying. That what I am really supposed to be doing is seeking out a relationship with God alone. I told H I did not want to end up annoying him by trying to force interactions between us, that I am trying to have patience but that i felt like doing that meant emotionally distancing myself from him and that feels so wrong. even when he is home we are not together. he is either somewhere else in the house or watching tv so intently that he may as well not even be there. i told him i felt like i just needed to cry a lot and so i was going to stay on the couch. he said i didn't need to do that, we could cuddle and if i needed to i could cry in his arms. he said he was going to take a shower and then he said he would give me a back rub. while he was in the shower, i read. the backrub was very nice. i didn't cry when we cuddled but i did get to wanting to at least give to him so much and i told him that and he said that would be nice. after a while he stopped me and please me instead. when everything was done i felt like i manipulated him and although i very much enjoyed it and he said it was nice too, i felt like i have done something wrong.

this is all so crazy!!!

Damage control I have done so far:
1) deleted the yahoo id.
2) threw away pack of cigerrets (boy that was an expensive smoke!!!)

I'm still trying to figure out best way to deal with OM issue. you would really think the guy would get so sick of the way i have treated him. i cannot even count the number of times i have told him i didn't want to ever speak to him again, that i needed to move on and put this in the past. a few times he has tried to make me promise to never say that again because he does not like hearing that. instead to tell him i need space but not to say i don't want to ever talk to him again because we can always still keep in touch with each other even if we are not seeing each other. and now here i am again having to tell him i'm sorry i contacted him, i don't want to continue knowing him.

regarding IC. i did tell leave her a message and told her I was not going to continue counsoling with her. she left me a message saying she got my message and she understand my decision and that she thinks the best thing for me to do is to continue to focus on taking care of myself.

I will try to find a more effective C for myself today.

i feel so pathetic guys... you all are crazy for wasting your time on me. i don't know if i will ever really get life figured out. i know the key has to be my spirituality or, better said, my lack of mature spirituality.

at least i am not totally messing up and continuing any of the destructive actions i started yesterday.

DeNovo,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you need in order to be okay? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well that is the million $ question and if left to just me i would say, i need a better marriage. but we all know that is NOT the answer. I need figure out a healthier outlook so it does not matter what my marriage is like but at the same time it opens the door for having a better marriage.

no, alcohol is not really an issue. he does like to drink beer or scotch a lot sometimes, especially when golfing or socializing, my daughter gives him a hard enough time that he does not drink much at home. (DARE program at it's best!) there are times i think he uses alcohol to help him feel better and i know that is not healthy but i don't think he abuses alcohol or is addicted to it.

Good morning, FL. I am glad you opened up to your H a bit last night, but did you tell him you contacted OM? IMHO, you do not want to get all that secret stuff built back up again, and have to go through the entire telling process again, do you? Trust me, from being on this side of it, the sooner you fess up the better. Because, if you want to be M to him, he will have to know.

Anyway, I have been thinking about you. I read your last post regarding intimacy. I wanted to give you a resource that helped me a lot in discovering the want/need difference, and where those things are appropriate. It is a book called "Living Through the Meantime" by Iyanla Vanzant. She has written lots of books, but this is the only one I have read. There is also a workbook that you can purchase seperately that I found extremely useful.

The other thing I wanted to run by you is, have you considered a Christian Counselor? It sounds like you want to grow your spirituality, and a Christian Counselor could refer you to the greatest comfort in the world - the Bible - and explain concept to you WAY better than I even could. I understand them enough for my life, but not well enough to guide someone.

Since you aren't seeing your other IC anymore, I thought this might be something that works in several different ways for you.

Well, gotta run and get to work. Have a good day. Please have NC today. Just get through today.

SS

i just can't go back to having the type of relationship we have had for the majority of our time together. i just can't stand being so insignificant to him. i can't take having such a non-emotional relationship anymore.

I was hoping...

you could plan A your golfing husband for 6 months or so...

regain most of your self-esteem ...

relocate your integrity ...

reconnect with your children, giving them 100% of yourself (including the portion of yourself that obsesses on OM currently) ...

create a home worthy of any marriage ....

then...

if golfing man is still disconnected...

still absent without leave...

At that time, YOU have earned (EARNED) the position of moral authority ....

to lower the boom on his pathetic conflict-avoiding butt...

THAT'S what I was hoping...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However, instead, you choose to continue your affair...

With these results...

the further destruction of your self-respect...

clobbering away at your integrity...

further decreasing the quality non-distracted Mom time with your kids...

creating a tense unhappy home environment ...

and no moral authority to command the respect you lack from your golfing husband.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am not too pleased with him either....

Bur while you choose to continue your affair.... you lose more than you gain.

You chip away at the stability of the family you claim to love so much....

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Pep