</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Finally, just a comment, was the gift of the footbaths something he wanted? Did it meet a need of his, or was it something you would have enjoyed? I ask this not to get on you, but for you to really think about the needs issue. Your H is not you, he see things differently, and he reacts differently. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I read this, I thought the same thing. My H would have loved me rubbing . . . well, his back or something, in something provocative . . . you get the idea. Although, some men do like foot rubs.

However, I listened to a Steve Harley tape on EN, and he said a common mistake in M is to give the EN that YOU value the most to your S, rather than the one the S really wants.

So, all through our M, I have been completely open and honest with my H, because that is my top EN. Well, one of my H's top EN is recreational activities. So, while having a heart-to-heart and making him cards and letters and whatnot made me feel really giving, H would rather be hiking.

That just made a lot of sense to me when I heard it from SH. Because, the thing H had in common with OW was recreational activities. Hm. A real eye-opener for me.

Thanks, JL.

SS

JL (and others)

i am taking morning off (have to work till midnight). i just offered to go to MIL's house to help him do some work on her kitchen, just doing a quick check here and work email and then leaving.

i didn't want you to think i was not responding for any reason other than i will not be at computer till later today.

i actually read the posts last night but wanted to think before replying.

i found another phone msg at work from OM today, looks like i am going to have to deal with him directly. i will keep it very direct and short, "i appologize that i contacted you. you and i both know any contact between us is unhealthy and very wrong" he wont need me to say anymore.

i am thinking i should tell H now. I am 100% going to find a new IC today.

JL, you said i am a very down person and you are right. and that is such a far cry from where i once was. i have always been known for my upbeat outlook and enthusastic personality. i am so far away from the me i used to be.

my daughter and son, when we were goofing around on sat, both started talking about how I have changed so much. we were out on the blow up boat i bought a long time ago and i was rowing them around and we were goofing around so much and laughing... and my daughter started the conversation about how we had not done this for so long, how she misses the fun we used to have, she blames it all on my job, says she understands the job is so stressful. then my son said some simmilar stuff and both of them started recalling things we did from the past and how i used to sing to them.

yesterday, the 3 of us spent the day together, we had a great time, and it even included doing some major cleaning of son's room!! what an accomplishment.

i have to get me back. my life derailed in 2000 when my dad was diagnosed with cancer. it's time for me to get back to who i really am.

I am really glad you are going to end it with OM (again?), and I am really hoping you are serious about telling your H. If you want to be married to him, I believe you cannot have that kind of stuff between you.

Take care, FL. I am so glad you got that time with your kids. It's amazing what they say and know, isn't it?

SS

FL:

What your H does, or did, 2 meet your needs, for whatever... ...has absolutely nothing 2 do with you having an A or getting through withdrawl from the OM. It's all about you.

Now, I know that sounds pretty non-MBish. But I have proof in my own sitch. My W had 2 As with Rat Meat over the past 13 years. Each time, allegedly before it started, she came 2 me with her "I'm in trouble" but lacking details as 2 what kind of trouble she was in. I responded the way I responded. She complined that I didn't do what she needed. I complain that she didn't tell me the whole story.

Fast forward 2 2day - 29 months after D-day. She is currently "temporarily NC'ing" RM, but she "won't do it indefinitely" and we're getting nowhere just as quickly as the last 2 times. What's different this time? Well, I've posted like 6000+ times as 2long, T-zero and Qfwfq 2 this and 2 other 4ums. I've learned a lot. I've changed my behavior a lot (and more than once, not always in good ways).

Does it make any difference? Not in my opinion. Not that my problems aren't OUR problems and shouldn't be addressed, but because HER issues are and always have been her issues. Only she can deal with them.

She complains these days that I won't let her be "who she is" which translates 2 mean that I won't let her have her relationship with RM. What she doesn't realize is that "who she is" has nothing 2 do with who she associates with, but everything 2 do with her integrity, her morality, her ethics, her compassion...

I might be able 2 make her "feel good" for a time by meeting an EN (though she won't let me meet many these days), but it will be fleeting until she addresses her issues.

The same holds for you, in my opinion. Think about what your integrity means 2 you. How valuable do you think you are 2 someone who only has 2 hug you 2 get a bj out of you? Sorry 2 be harsh, but you need it... ...and this OM is NOT worth a minute of your thoughts!

This is about YOU. Not your H. Focus on YOU.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i have to get me back. my life derailed in 2000 when my dad was diagnosed with cancer. it's time for me to get back to who i really am.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. For you. For your children. For your husband, if he's able or willing to be a part of a healthy marriage/family. But that's his choice, not yours. Sounds like it's time for you to stop self-medicating with the OM and find other ways to heal and feel better. Just a little FYI: It takes three weeks to begin habit formation. Maybe set a three week goal to not contact the other man? Three weeks is doable. After three weeks, then look at three months. Change is hard, but keep putting one foot in front of the other in the little things and you can make it. A good IC can help structure and support you. I know you're looking for a Christian counselor, but good IC's will support an individual's religious values regardless of their own convictions. Best of luck to you in your search--I know that's not an easy thing to do. Keep taking care of yourself and your kids, FL.

i'm here. i don't have a lot of answers but i have to start somewhere. your last question seemed to be the most important...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">12. Do you love your H? If so why? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have debated this too much while in the A (and probably since then too, although i try not to) I don't want to debate this anymore. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice. I choose to love my H. Why? because in my ideal world, this M survives and thrives we become good friends and enjoy life together.

i know i have to answer the other questions and they should not be this hard but they are.

i did not make progress on IC yesterday but it is still on the top of the todo list.

ncwalker on eric's post talked about how males/females are wired differently. maybe i'm not wired to be able to do this JL. I don't know how to take the lead and turn this all around.

at work i can be such a driving force by make clear logical decisions based on the requirements and the current behavior of the product. you would think i should be able to do the same here!!!!

too often, like right now, i just feel overwhelmed. so many of you will say, get a good IC already!!! what you don't understand is that i am fearful that doing that will result in the IC and me deciding that the marriage is not salvagable. that happened once already!!! i try to tell myself that only occured because the IC was not a good one. did not understand i was an emotional mess and not capable of making decisions when he pushed me to make decisions. i don't want that to happen again. i need H beside me to help.

at the same time i am very tired of not being able to truely take matters in my own hands and make some changes because like SS pointed out, i am desperate for change.

regarding the footbath present. he always likes it when i rubbed his feet so i thought this present would be an extension of that (in fact 2 nights ago when we went to bed he asked me to rub his feet cuz they were aching, he has no arch, his feet hurt a lot). i asked him yesterday what he thought of the gift and he said it was very nice/thoughtful. i told him i was only asking because i truely want to understand what things mean the most to him (i.e. what are his top ENs). "of course the most obvious one is faithfulness but as far as day to day little things, what makes you feel good" then i told him about the EN questionaire again (i had brougth them home once before but didn't push for us to do them) and he said we should do them, i just don't know if he is sincere, but i guess i should act as if he is and get the papers in his hands.

Dang skippy you should get those papers in his hands! I'd be all over that if I were you.

Also, did you read Pep's thread on Love Bank Deposits? Low Orbit posted on there, and it gave me some insight into what a man would consider a love unit deposit.

I probed my H about them last night, and Low was right! Dr. Harley was right! The majority of men do like the same type of things.

Hm.

And as for turning it ALL around, all you can turn around is YOU. Period. The end. If your H wants to come along, great! If not, that is something you will have to decide upon in the future. Don't let what he will or won't do stop you from working on YOU. Because, to be completely honest, I do believe he will surprise you.

Lots of love and support to you!

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">rob, how did you end up feeling better at the end of the hour?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FL-

I’m glad you had a good time with your family this past weekend! I’m right there with ya though with the frustration of not getting anywhere fast enough!

You asked me this question a few days ago and I’ve been trying to come up with a perfect, pep-like answer. Well, that seems to be beyond me so I’m just going to try my best…

I usually always feel better at the end of every hour with my IC. I NEED my IC! I can’t wait until my weekly tonight! (Really wish it could be more…)

Anyway, without boring you with details, my IC helps me see into my core, past & current, and helps me identify things, behaviors, attitudes that have shaped who I am. My IC help me look at life, my situation, with an open mind and open heart. It helps me identify and own past behaviors and identify things that I want to change. Once I am able to filter out all of the nonsense I can really focus on me. That’s what I need right now. I cannot control my W. I do not know if she will decide to work on our M or not. What I can control is me, my actions, who I am. IC helps me forgive myself for who I was, WAS! The past cannot burden me. I know that I will never have an A again, no matter what. If my W gives me another chance or not.

If she decides she no longer wants to be my W I will be sad but I think she has every right to make that decision. My IC helps put everything into perspective.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
what you don't understand is that i am fearful that doing that will result in the IC and me deciding that the marriage is not salvagable.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BAD IC. Run Away! If that happens again (and it could, lots of quacks you know…) fire the IC.. You are the client. The IC works for you! The IC cannot decide your marriage is unsalvageable, only you can. IC should be working on you, not your marriage.

I know it’s a pain in the [censored] to find someone new, but just call 3 or 5 at lunch today. You’ll probably get an answering service, but the good ones should call you back today. Ask questions, listen to responses. If you like what you hear, make an appointment and give it a shot. First appt. should tell you if you like new IC or not.

Good luck!

"One shouldn't care about what others think of you. It's more important how you view yourself. Comparing yourself with others, or your perceptions of an ideal, is a quick road to unhappiness."

-Jet Li

FL,

I had so many things to say to you yesterday but got soo busy at my work that I could not get them down. Today, most of my "deathless prose" are gone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But, I have my wet noodle here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

I had this soo organized and now it is gone so you get random thoughts today, I apologize.

First, let's talk about your job. If you left your H, you would still be working right? I asked you about money and lifestyle issues, because if you left your marriage you would need to work. Are you willing or could you afford to raise your children on a teachers salary?

Further, you do understand that when they get to be teenagers, they don't want to "hang" with Mom and Dad, so all that time you wanted to spend with them won't be there. Please think about this.

Now let's look at your present job. You are good at it. You have survived the cuts, you take pride in it. And you are reasonably well compensated for it. So remind me why you want to leave it again? You see I think you have allowed other issues to carry over into your satisfaction with the job. I realize it is a JOB, but still think about this abit. You will enjoy your job, AND you children more if you look at the good things about it.

FL, I am NOT saying give up the idea of teaching, I am saying answering those questions and others is important so that YOU can make good decisions.

You see you need to examine the positives as well as the negatives of your situation before ANY good decisions can be made. List the positives and examine them closely.

Now you mentioned you really want to stay married to your H. That is your decision or at least partly your decision. He has his decisions to make. But I thought I would explore with you what really bugs you about him. It seems his playing golf during the week bothers you.

Now I will admit up front that I love to play golf. I used to play fairly regularly to a low handicap. I play about 6 times a year, sometimes a bit more. So you will understand my bias.

He plays during the week while you are working, usually he plays once a week. From MY point of view this is pretty cool because he is then home when you are home because he does NOT play on the weekends, and actually his level of play is NOT too bad (I mean frequency here). So what is bugging you? I am not saying you should not be bugged, but let's figure it out. Is it the golf, or is it something different and the golf is the lightening rod?

Let's look at his income, it could be more, but if he worked full time your kids would be in day care, or school, or on their own at great cost and lose of time with at least one parent. Perhaps you would like to switch situations, but let's really look at this. You are better trained, you have more experience in your profession, and you are the one most suited to bring in the major income. There is little he or you can do to change that.

I am not saying there are not problems but sort of pointing out the facts as I see them.

Perhaps, what you need is a better level of involvement from him with regard to the kids, but I would offer you my perspective. If I tried to tell my W that I thought she was fallin short with the child rearing, I would an ear full but her NOT telling me how to do my job. She would be partly right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But, the point is if someone has a job to do, you need to let them do it as best they can or you fire them. You cannot fire an H, and even a divorce doesn't mean that your children get more time with one or both parents.

So is your situation hopeless? I don't think so, but I do think you need to face the reality of life about work, children, choices. You have all three and it is up to you to make the most of each and find enjoyment in all of them. After all the goal here is not next week, or next year, or even HS graduation. You want your children to be on their own fully functioning capable of supporting themselves and on their way in life when they hit 30. That is the goal, if you and your H can acheive that goal by whatever means or arrangement, then you have succeeded.

FL, noticed I have not said a thing about your A. Notice I have not really said much about your H other than his golf. Why? I don't think you can find happiness in your marriage no matter what your H does or doesn't do, until you find at least some satisfaction within your self, and hopefully you will find some happiness as well.

If you step back and look at things you have had more than a few successes. Your children to date are doing well. You are and have succeeded in your profession. Those two things alone consume most of your waking hours. The marriage needs work, the love life needs work (that goes hand in hand with the marriage). But, I think that if you start to face the reality of your decisions, and the choices you have made career wise and family wise. You will find you are NOT in a bad situation now, and you do have a list of successes.

Let's get this stuff straight before you attack the marriage issue. My bet is that if you get a few of things under control in your mind, you will be happier, you will smile more, you will relax, you will sleep better, and your H will be sitting there wondering "WHAT HAPPENED?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then he may be receptive to your ovetures of rebuilding the marriage.

Does any of this make sense? I am sorry that it seems disjointed.

God Bless,

JL

" [b]found another phone msg at work from OM today, looks like i am going to have to deal with him directly. i will keep it very direct and short, "i appologize that i contacted you. you and i both know any contact between us is unhealthy and very wrong" he wont need me to say anymore." [/b]

Dear FL, was going to send you a post to check on how you were doing and coping with things and job etc then I saw the one you had done. I tend to post in this thread and the other thread (Seeing his car....), and the one I did (broken vessell with dramatic exit line..)

I have to dash out now, but just wanted to share on your above quote..

Is there any way you can give your message to OM WITHOUT talking to him?? Email on a different address etc ...anything?

Am only asking because although it has been nearly 15 weeks now in NC with me, if I heard his voice or saw him or even see his car pass, I still GO TO PIECES inside.

Even seeing other close friends of his (who sadly can't be mine now because of the NC) is hurting me deeply. I feel they are amongst others who are being deceived.

Each day I struggle with NC and especially at weekends when he gets back (away sorting move out).

I don't know WHAT he has told W or close friends as they must surely wonder why I am not involved in their lives anymore.. People looking at me (not knowing the truth) but thinking 'how could she above all people who worked for him in office' just 'turn away from him and family' whilst he is going through difficult time in his life (they don't really know 'what' difficult time but they blame the church and members of board)

He handed in his resignation,(I believe to cover up A) but laying blame on board (my husband part of his blame because my H is absolutely straight down the line with the Bible), yet board knew OM was 'not right'in other spiritual areas and commitment to work, so didn't ask him to reconsider his resignation and just accepted it.

Church split as a result. Many are deceived and still 'following him'....blaming board too...My husband has people who 'don't like him at all' because they see him as a 'badie' who wouldn't beg OM to say in job....

Sorry, I can't give much more info. Such a complicated and sad situation.

Thanks for listening. Will post later.

JL did you see my 'recovery plan' on here? Truly would value your comments.

Kas

" found another phone msg at work from OM today, looks like i am going to have to deal with him directly. i will keep it very direct and short, "i appologize that i contacted you. you and i both know any contact between us is unhealthy and very wrong" he wont need me to say anymore."

Dear FL, was going to send you a post to check on how you were doing and coping with things and job etc then I saw the one you had done. I tend to post in this thread and the other thread (Seeing his car....).

I have to dash out now, but just wanted to share on your above quote..

Is there any way you can give your message to OM WITHOUT talking to him?? Email on a different address etc ...anything?

Am only asking because although it has been nearly 15 weeks now in NC with me, if I heard his voice or saw him or even see his car pass, I still GO TO PIECES inside.

Even seeing other close friends of his (who sadly can't be mine now because of the NC) is hurting me deeply. I feel they are amongst others who are being deceived.

Each day I struggle with NC and especially at weekends when he gets back (away sorting move out).

I don't know WHAT he has told W or close friends as they must surely wonder why I am not involved in their lives anymore.. People looking at me (not knowing the truth) but thinking 'how could she above all people who worked for him in office' just 'turn away from him and family' whilst he is going through difficult time in his life (they don't really know 'what' difficult time but they blame the church and members of board)

He handed in his resignation,(I believe to cover up A) but laying blame on board (my husband part of his blame because my H is absolutely straight down the line with the Bible), yet board knew OM was 'not right'in other spiritual areas and commitment to work, so didn't ask him to reconsider his resignation and just accepted it.

Church split as a result. Many are deceived and still 'following him'....blaming board too...My husband has people who 'don't like him at all' because they see him as a 'badie' who wouldn't beg OM to say in job....

Sorry, I can't give much more info. Such a complicated and sad situation.

Thanks for listening. Will post later.

JL did you see my 'recovery plan' on here? Truly would value your comments.

Kas

Sorry FL and others,

Accidentally hit the send button twice. Have to go out now.

Am a bit low so am going to go to garden centre and get a plant for the new kitchen.

Will post later...

Kas

FL-

How's your search for a new IC going?

I went to IC last night very down and depressed but I SWEAR I was in a much better mood at the end of the hour!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope all is well!

Rob

Dear FL,

Just seen your post on Lisa's new job thread. Wanted to catch up with you.

How are you REALLY? You said you have had a hard week. Can you share more? Do you mean with work, or personal stuff?

I understand how you must feel. We are both still early on in our recovery. So hard. So painful. Seems 'never ending'..

I still can't believe in a way that I am doing a post to you, when I followed your posts for weeks before joining MB's and never thought I would get up the courage to join, let alone post anyone!

You are still an encouragement to me.

I guess we are both making some progress even though we can't see it out front.

Take care and do keep in touch,

Kas

thanks KAS, i feel bad i have not reached back to you as much as you have reached out to me. i am glad somehow i helped you, it's hard for me to understand how that is possible though!!

i just posted in a new thread, read that to get update on me.

thanks again to you all for caring.

Karen

Dear FL,

Have just come back to this thread to see if you were there and found your post. I have posted a reply to you on your new thread.

I just want to encourage you again in God.. If you hadn't confessed to your H those weeks ago and started to post here....I wouldn't have been following YOUR posts when I also confessed...

Your posts were A KEY to me having courage to join in this site too! I thought to myself 'I admire that lady and respect her honesty in opening up to others to get help'

THAT LADY IS YOU...

YOU ARE HELPING OTHERS STIll...

Kas

thanks kas, your post here really touched me. i hope in time i wil really be able to make sense of all this and come to peace with it.

Dear FL,

How are you coping at the moment?

Please post back and say how you are.

I really wan't to know how you getting on, and how you are feeling.

Don't give up on yourself will you?

Are you worried about the NC thing?

Thanks for your last post.

We will all get through this together. We have gone through loads together already.

Will check this thread again later,

Kas (me - still struggling with nc too)

Dear FL,

How are you getting on??

Please please please post as I am worried about you.

Has something happend?

Whatever is going on and whatever may have happend, please post.

I keep checking for replies.

I do understand TOTALLY if you are struggling with NC.

I am not having a good day with it, but I wan't to really know how you are.

Please post asap.

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />