</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong>I have always advised my friends
there not to settle for less than what they want
and not to be afraid to issue that ultimatim.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kind of ultimatum?

They should not settle for less than what they want, even if what they want is totally selfish and tramples on someone else?

What do you thnk of the Golden Rule?

Please feel free to ask me any question you want. Review my short synopsis, below, first.

Pepperband-
Wow lots of ????- I'll try to answer as clearly
as possible.
I don't define myself as sacred or secular. I
think those labels are too open to interpetation.
I can say that I meant my vows when I took them.
For me they are sacred- regardless of the fact that I was an OW.
I meant "innocent" as obviously not so innocent
considering what it led to. At the begining I
saw the flirtation as fun, certainly nothing
serious- obviously I was wrong.
The code of ethics- if I'm trying to push one
at all- is one of personal responsibility and
choices.
I don't push the morality issue because like
religion- people tend to personalize it for
themselves. One of my friends, a long time
Catholic nun- often stated that you could
never preach or intellectualize religious
conversion- it has to be felt in the heart first.
I look upon morality in the same way. It would
be awfully convienent for me to preach the
wrongness of affairs when my own affair resulted
in a "happy ending".
My purpose here is to share and learn.
Lastly, there is always that chance that my H
is some big, ole liar and I'm just a fool- but
I could have married a single guy, where we
has no past and be right where many of you are.
Obviously not being an OP doesn't prevent you
from one day being a BS. Marriage doesn't come
with a guarantee- but I'm willing to risk my
heart like many of you becaused I love and I
commit.

It's my H's
3rd marriage- he's in his late 50's.

YIKES!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I did not see this the first time I read...

3rd time's the charm.... hmmmmmmmmmm I can see how much his vows mean to him .... unless .....

ummmmm ... Did wife #1 die prematurely?

How long did each marriage last?

YOU could be lucky, and this time he means "Until death do us part". It could happen.

I cannot remember the statistic of marriage failures ... it becomes very dismal after divorce #2.

So.... welcome to marriage builders.

Please read the entire site contents... especially the methods for building a solid marriage.

Good luck. I would be VERY PROactive in this marriage if I were you.

Pep

I don't define myself as sacred or secular.

Why not? Can't commit to either? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think those labels are too open to interpetation.

No they're not.


I can say that I meant my vows when I took them.
For me they are sacred- regardless of the fact that I was an OW.

Would you like to drop the OW mantle now?

How about you post here as a wife.

Time to shed the OW snake skin and live and breathe and think and love .... as a wife who holds her vows sacred.

Try it.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong>I love and I
commit. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does your H commit?

Did he commit with his former wife?

What's changed?

Was he responsible for his commitment to her?

Would he be offended if someone accused him of being a hypocrit?

WAT

I see alot of ??? but have to go to a meeting
across the street. Will reply later this evening
from home.
Thanks!!

The code of ethics- if I'm trying to push one
at all- is one of personal responsibility and
choices.

I am not asking you if you "push" a code of ethics...

I am trying to figure out what ethics YOU live your life by...

and so far....

You are ethic-free as far as I can tell.

"Personal responsibility and choices " is not a code of ethics.

You could be a bank robber with this as your guide... as long as you take responsibility!

Really, you sound so darn lost! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Pep

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

"It would be awfully convienent for me to preach the wrongness of affairs when my own affair resulted in a "happy ending".

Sweetie, your original question was about "the fog"..

Here it is. This quote of yours is ... *THE FOG*

Your own affair resulted in a "happy ending" for you, and too bad if other human beings and other marriages were destroyed . Look out for anyone in your way.

So.... if this is your underlying philosophy... how does it make you a better wife? A kinder person? A decent human being?

Start thinking like a wife, Miss Pink .... the OW-thinking will poison your marriage.

Really ... best of luck!

Pep

Everybody, back off a bit! Paige is trying to be open and sincere with us! We don't know the whole story here. If we're going to be honest, we all know some long-lasting marriages that began as extramarital affairs. She's admitting she has caused pain, she's not blaming the betrayed spouse or badmouthing their marriage, she's owning up to a lot more than a lot of OPs do! And she's listening!

Re the articles, Paige: they are generally descriptive, and I find them generally true. Generally. Not always in every circumstance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> Everybody, back off a bit! Paige is trying to be open and sincere with us! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As am I with her.

I'm just trying to understand her logic. Perhaps I can learn something.

Asking direct questions should not be offensive to anyone who has defensible answers.

Note that I volunteered for her to ask me any question she likes.

So why the "back off"?

WAT

AM -

I was not trying to give Paige a hard time. I am sincerely interested in her story for my own reasons. She asked questions that I struggle with too. Wish I could catch some of that optimism she has.

Weaver

Pink,

I have to say that I find your presence here very offensive.I don't know why you are here...presumably under the false pretense of learning about "fog" IMO.What does it matter now,you have got your previously married man and as much as you try to sound sincere and understanding about the situation it cannot change the fact of how you obtained this current marriage.

Frankly it disgusts me,even though you may be hiding under the new "married woman" status.I don't know why but it seems more TOW people are browsing this forum and posting and I do not feel safe and secure with people such as yourself here.

The fact is that you may be here,in addition to questions about "fog",to learn about marriage but in my view,the marriage you have is tainted and yes,I do not solely blame you but also your current H who at the time was wayward to his wife.

This site is primarily devoted to helping those recover from Infidelity or to deal with it and prevent it so you being here is a tantamount to having a mugger discuss why he mugged someone at a support group for those attacked.

I am sorry to be so blunt but this is the way I feel as a frequent user of this board and it is disturbing to me how TOW users seem to be coming here,reading and posting and then returning back to their site and posting how mean we all are.Many of us,including myself,are still in a lot of pain from our WS's being involved with OP's like you and I don't appreciate that you are here where I am seeking help.

So anyone that wants to flame,go ahead,it will not affect the way I feel about this thread.

O

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

As promised I have returned (with apologies to
Octobergirl).
Since you were the most recent poster- I'll
answer to you first. I was initially made aware
of this board through posters from MB that also
post on TOW. I find this board of interest and
feel I can learn from this board and I can maybe
provide a perspective not often seen- since my
role in the triangle has changed. Since affairs
are emotional type "crimes" they are unlike
fiscal crimes such as muggings. Your WS "mugged"
you too- yet I'm sure you encourage communication
with him/or her? I believe that all constructive
communication is valuable and believe that this
site allows for "guests" as long as we are respectful of the issues and pain at hand. I
believe I'm am doing that. However, if I hear that the board consensis is that I don't belong
here- I will apologize for the intrusion and
not post again. But if my viewpoint is allowed
to be expressed and it is of benefit and allowed
, I would simply suggest that you ignore my posts. For example I would never go to "Just
Found Out" because for them- I would be there
worst nightmare.
Now for worthatry & pepperband:
I think most of your questions boil down to
the if you believe in the sacredness of marriage
how could you do this?
And the answer is because we were selfish. We
thought that our flirtation was innocent fun
meant to keep the workday light. It wasn't. We
developed feelings and rather than acknowledging
those feelings and telling myself but your married- I told myself I could carry it this
far but no farther. And when it came down to
the moment of truth- I wanted his love and
wanted to be his wife (this was how I felt all
along unlike some) more than I wanted to be
a good person. And of course-now that we are
married- I would be devastated if he was to cheat
on me. Does that make me (and him, I guess)
hypocrites or simply human being with failings.
From an intergrity statnd point- I'm at the pick
myself up and dust myself off and move forward
trying to repair the damamage where I can.
Looking for forgiveness and reconciliation with
my church and realizing that non of us are
defined by one act in our life but by the life
as a whole and what we do with the now.
Pepperband- my husband married me for the same
reason your spouse married you- because they
loved you with the best of intentions. I'm sure
your spouse still believes in marriage even
though they faltered- don't define him/her or
even yourself by this one mistake.

So you were selfish, putting your desires ahead of others, but you have faith in God, and we're all sinners, so all better, right?

You didn't answer my Golden Rule question. Please?

And again, please ask me anything.

WAT

worthatry,
I keep feeling like I answer your question
but it's not enough.
Yes, we were selfish. No, it was not ok.
And no, saying we are all sinners is not a
valid excuse.
I give you all that. My biggest fear however is
that if I could go back- I would probably still
do the same thing. His love, a future with him
is in my soul worth more than my integrity.
That's is where I am working from- where I am
still struggling.
And yes, even though I violated it- I believe
in the Golden Rule.
No my question for you- where do you think
I should go from here?

I think you should bail out of the marriage, acquire some meaningful values, restore your integrity, and start over - without trampling on anybody else as you seek an honorable relationship.

In short, become a better person.

WAT

Paige,

Did I miss the part where you told his exW that you know what you did was wrong, and ask her to forgive the both of you for what happened?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Like most BS- it's easier for her to blame the whole A on me-
although we've never spoken or had any ugliness between us. I only know that she hopes we never meet and I understand her feelings 100%. I wish her nothing but good things and feel genuinely bad for any pain I caused her.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess not. You feel bad about it, but not enough to humbly go before her, admit your sin and ask for forgiveness.

Tony

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

worthatry,
Thank you- although I'm not sure how bailing
out of my marriage is going to make me a better
person? Nor does my pastor take that position.
But I do understand why you feel the way that
you do and hope things work out for you.

javaSanaContour,
She has asked that I never meet or contact her.
I understand her feelings 100% and have respected
her wishes.
She does speak on the phone to my H- I think
she basically talks about what is going on with her and keeps her ?? on H about work and family
(not me).

Bailing out is the first step to undo your mistakes - as well as to prevent another infidelity from occurring. THEN - you do the other things to become whole again.

I'd like to converse with your pastor.

Would you be willing to invite him here?

WAT