Hey Eric. What is your email?

Hey eric, just wanted to offer a little support as I know what its like to have a few 2x4s.

What you did was A Bad Thing. You need to learn from it, as top rope says.

You do not need to be punished, as it is done and cannot be reversed.

Hopefully this will be the catalyst for some extra hard work and life will get better.

Unfortunately, I know exactly how you feel.

Sending lots of love to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Everyone that has responded to my actions I appreciate, even the ones who have bashed me. I do want to say this,, I am in no way trying to justify my actions, yes I betrayed my children, yes I betrayed myself, my actions are anything but justified. There is no undoing it. Some have asked what do I do now? Well I know that me and my wife are going to get all of my stuff and move back in my home where I belong today. I am going to commit myself to my wife and my children I will never seperate our activities again. What doesnt kill us only makes us stronger. One member has said that they do not believe my wife is accepting what I have done,,, there is no way I could disagree with that,, I know there was nothing harder than accepting the fact that my wife had an affair. I just had lunch with her all we talked about was getting the boat and jet ski ready for the lake this weekend. How much fun we are going to have together and how hapy we both are that I am coming home.

KB,,, I knew you would be disappointed in me,, like I said there is no justification I did what I told you I could never do. I have no intentions of ever putting myself in the position for this to happen again. I remember you were against me moving out in the first place, maybe you saw this coming. I put myself, despite my wife telling me not to into a situation to invite my infidelity. I can only reflect on this mistake and learn from it. I am not sitting here on some pettistool proud of what I have done. I dont think that I made my wife feel good because I had an affair, she saw it coming and tried to prevent it but I was to stubborn and angry to listen to her warnings.

We have both accepted that it will take some time before either one of us can be intimate again. In time I think we can but while we go through this I am making decisions that are the right ones. I will not be isolated from my wife again.

I know it sounded as if I am such a selfish bas****, but what good is telling people how you feel if it is not how you feel. I fully knew that I was not going to receive support for what I had done. I can handle anyones advice at least they are being honest. One person says it will hit me hard down the road,,, quite possible, but If I take every mistake I have made and my wife has made and better ourselves from these mistakes perhaps we will find comfort in ourselves again.

Juke-> eriwilnel@msn.com I thought I had it listed in profile.
Pepper, You have allways stated your mind and the facts you have me accept are indisputable.

I notice after all of you express your opinions you still say "I think there is still hope for you"

Believe me there is.

Yes I have been there and done that,, the fact that I didnt react the way I expected to does not mean I want to do it again,, I never want to do it again. OMG I do sound just like my wife.........

cwmac,,, I know you are looking at the best senario and right now I do feel confident we will have a much better marriage, thanks for being the black sheep. However I do not feel anyone is being too hard on me, they actually speak truth after what I did I had to let people know here that I was not capable of doing what I said I would never do.

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: eric. n ]</small>

Knewbetter

Awesome post. Amen

Hi Eric,

Boy oh boy...I'm with ARK on this one. How very sad that their is a woman out there who is so lost that she is willing to have sex with someone just for a momentary feeling of love. How sad that people are so willing to take their problems outside of their marriage to have a moment of relief. You did use that woman, even if she was willing. She is a lost sad soul. I mean she didn't do it because it was her profession, she did it to feel love if only for a moment.

The pain keeps spreading... and how connected to each other we really are keeps becoming more apparent.

knewbetter...
you nailed it!!!!

awesome post...

words of great wisdom...

ark

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by eric. n:
<strong> KB,,, I knew you would be disappointed in me,, like I said there is no justification I did what I told you I could never do. I have no intentions of ever putting myself in the position for this to happen again. I remember you were against me moving out in the first place, maybe you saw this coming. I put myself, despite my wife telling me not to into a situation to invite my infidelity. I can only reflect on this mistake and learn from it. I am not sitting here on some pettistool proud of what I have done. I dont think that I made my wife feel good because I had an affair, she saw it coming and tried to prevent it but I was to stubborn and angry to listen to her warnings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh Eric I wasn't dissapointed in you! I just felt SO completely crushed for BOTH of you. All of us did, could you tell? What a blow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And yeah, I saw it coming. Your wife and I must have had FWW premonition, too bad we couldn't have had faithful wife premonition instead. We both could have saved our families alot of grief!

I KNOW that you're not proud of what happened because there has been a decency in you from the begining. Your commitment to your wife after DD was clear in spite of your decision to stay separated. I know it was hard to deal head on with the issues but now that you've had your very own wakeup call, (geeze, was it loud enough??) I know you're listening. I'm so glad.

Now, the hard work is ahead for both of you. You've seen what happens when you shrink from it so plunge ahead and get ready to build the new, improved version of your marriage. Is there any chance your wife would be interested in posting?

Anyway, I'm still your MB cheerleader Eric, and there are so many more of us here. We all want to see you guys succeed. Someday you are going to return the favor to someone else and this will all seem like a bad dream. Promise! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

You know, I think some of us are just more screwed up than others LOL.

I had an ID on this board a long time ago and I can't remember it for the life of me. But I remember I replied to a FWH who was beside himself that his wife had just had a revenge affair. He wanted to know how this was possible and why would she do it? I replied and ended up getting roasted.

More than 2 years past the original d-day of WH and I have to confess...my marriage is AWESOME. In a painful and twisted way we've completely turned things around. Both of us have grown up tremendously, both of us love eachother insanely. The difference is that our eyes are wide open now--to eachother.

You see...I MAY have been betrayed first, but I've learned through some deep and uncomfortable soul searching that there is no such thing as a "revenge" affair. People have affairs because they want to. Not because of anything someone else did to them. Sure, it may just give them a nicely gift wrapped package of rationalization but the bottom line is that that the former betrayed spouse who becomes wayward not only deep down wanted to be wayward all along, but quite probably may have become wayward themselves anyhow if the right opportunity presented itself in the future.

It's like a drunk person who feels they deserve to be excused for the fight they picked because they were drunk. Bottom line is that we don't do anything we don't want to do. Intoxicated. Sober. Betrayed. Our true core values don't compromise no matter how easy the excuse or reason may be.

I think, for me, coming to that realization was one of the most painful aspects of my own personal recovery. And in regards to my marriage- experiencing deep, soul gripping pain over how deeply I truly HAD betrayed my husband, no matter WHAT he'd done was also paramout to my recovery. But it took me time. And a lot of self honesty. I was more self-righteous and unrepentant than Eric for months afterward.

Because part of what was the WORST part of finding out my H had been unfaithful was my unbelieve rage over my own self-perceived importance. I felt how DARE he as opposed to how COULD he. I found it laughable that he felt entitled to this dalliance. I was so incredibly arrogant and in such deep pain all wrapped together. And I acted out in some illogical backwards statement to prove that it could have been me all along because I was everything already, everything a man would desire.

Yeah, being married to me at the time was a real treat. I'm amazed he didn't break the door off it's hinges in his effort to get out of there quickly. But he stuck with me. We worked through it. And now it's all just a faded jumble of memory that evokes no more emotion than remembering other past painful events unrelated to fidelity. It's just another part of our history.

I didn't mean to be so lengthy. I guess what I'm saying is that...you CAN recover from this. But take responsibility for basically being a f-up completely unrelated to anything your wife did. Realize that the both of you have this predisposition and perhaps in some ways, you understand that part of eachother clearly now. Don't embrace it though...work to change it so that it never, ever happens again. And spend the rest of your marriage making it up to her in ways she'll never know about...by truly controlling your wayward thoughts, your vengeful thoughts and by going out of your way to be a better person. It will impact your marriage in ways you can't imagine.

I think...that we're finally pretty darn happy. When I hear that Alanis Morrisette song "you see everything" I well up thinking about my H.

Dear Eric, everyone else have said some insightful things and I hope you look deep into yourself and find why, it wasn't only the beer.... the only other thing I wanted to add was I am glad you are going home to work on your M, keep posting and let us know how you are doing - sandy

Eric,

I can't throw stones.

I haven't cheated on my husband. I want only him. But I have done many many other things in my life for which I have been forgiven.

And every day, I fall short, miss the mark, and need forgiveness. My particular crime might not be sexual immorality, or adultery, but who is to say that my sins are not worse.

I am not immune to sin. Are any of you? Let him who thinks he stands, beware...


Thank you for reminding me to take the log out of my own eye .

I think the lesson is that we will be judged with the same measure that we use, and to extend the same mercy that we have been shown.

Shul

Eric:

I understand why you did what you did and I don't think I even blame you. I am not sure what it means to your potential recovery with your WW or if you will even have a chance at recovery.

I didn't take the same route, but the opportunity was not available to me either. If I would have done the same, I think it would have taken away from own moral values causing me more pain in the long run. I am not passing judgement against you by saying this. It may have been easier to get even....who really knows??!!

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Nevermind

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Eric,
A guy tries to empathize with another guy whose made a big mistake and he gets roasted for it.

Go look under my post "Have I helped? Wife thinks..."

Hope you and your wife are spending some good time together now that you've moved back to the house.

cwmac

Eric... for me, much of my answer depends on whether or not, when you moved out, you figured the marriage was over.

Firstly, if you knew it was only a trial separation and so did she, and you'd made a commitment that you were still trying to fix the marriage, then you shouldn't have done it. (That being said, however, from an emotional perspective, and having been in your shoes, I can't really get on your [censored] for having done what you did. You were an emotional wreck, separated from your kids, and just found out that you'd been horribly betrayed by the one person in your life who swore to be faithful to you. Your entire world had just been torn apart by her. You no doubt felt naive, inadequate, foolish and blind. Frankly, I'm surprised that more BSs don't have revenge affairs.)

Secondly... if, for all you could tell, the marriage was over when you moved out, then as far as I'm concerned, you didn't cheat. You had every right to do what you did. From my perspective, a marriage isn't irretrievably broken when one person cheats; but when the cheater rebuffs all the BS's attempts to fix it and separation ensues, then as far as the BS is concerned, that's that. They can do what they want without guilt.

After revealing her multiple infidelities, TBXW told me in September that she didn't want to try anymore and that we should separate. I moved out on November 1. As far as I was concerned, the marriage was over. I'd spent a few months trying to get her interested in working with me and been shot down repeatedly. I felt those feelings of inadequacy and naivete. I felt that she had taken my strength, my sanity, and my happiness. From my perspective, I had the absolute right at that point to do whatever I had to do (within legal bounds) to get those things back.

So, my first night in my new apartment, I slept with another woman. I didn't regret it then and I don't regret it now. Turns out, TBXW asked me to come back several times, the first time being about ten days after I moved out.

I know this isn't very MB-compatible, but it's a fair summary of the thoughts that were going through my mind at the time. If you guys are both interested in fixing the marriage, I sincerely hope you can get past her acts of betrayal and "yours."

Good luck brother...

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: reservoirdog1 ]</small>

::::Your wife made a decision to have an affair based on many different factors. She did not have boundries and understanding of how to guard her marriage. As opposed to you, she relatively "blundered" into her A, while you walked in eyes wide open.

Knew Better, I think your heart is as big as they come on this board, but I don't fully agree with the above. Yes, I understand that an A is often as big a shock to the WS as it is to the BS, in a different sort of way. Most people have no idea how easily an A happens, and WS are blindsided by the power of flattery. However, most people also have no idea of the extent of the damage that is done, as a result of an A. The damage is beyond description for most people.

In many ways I don't believe that Eric did have his eyes wide open. I think his eyes have scales of confusion and grief and humiliation and pain, His behavior is probably more understandable than his wife's. Ignorance and a willingness to betray is one thing but acting out of the kind of insanity that descends on BS's is perhaps more understandable than the behavior of a WS.

A's stuff up people's reasoning abilities big time. I do agree with you about it making recovery more complicated, and then some. One can just hope that Eric's wife feels so bad about her own A that she is willing to accommodate Eric's behavior and tell herself that she set the wheels in motion for this to happen. Maybe too, she now understands what it feels like and can empathise with what Eric's been going thru. But, for me, as you know, I wasn't prepared to test the "two wrongs don't make a right" rule of thumb. Toooooo scarey for this little puss! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

::::It's like a drunk person who feels they deserve to be excused for the fight they picked because they were drunk. Bottom line is that we don't do anything we don't want to do. Intoxicated. Sober. Betrayed. Our true core values don't compromise no matter how easy the excuse or reason may be.

FrustratedW, I really wanted to argue with you about this because the paragraph before screamed wrong to me. I recently had a great opportunity for a R affair. I'm 51 and I told my H the next offer I got, I was taking it. 3 days later, a totally gorgeous looking 50 yo flight attendant and I are exchanging email addresses. I can't tell you how attractive I found this guy - his personality (apart from him being a cheating assh*le) looks, build, etc etc.

When it came to it, I couldn't do it. I just couldn't see the sense in me having sex with this guy. WAs it my true core values? Partly. My world has been shattered by finding my H's true core values are not the same as mine and I did feel released from our contract, which is not before God in my mind, but between us. BUT I still couldn't give myself to this guy. I really didn't see the value in it. So maybe you are right.

Hope you post more - your posts are very interesting. You also touched another nerve with me about "the gall of my H cheating". The only thing was that I still thought "how could he?" rather than "how dare he?" But, there were shades of the latter. Which would explain my desire to put the bast*ard back in his place. In some ways I managed to do that without going to bed with another man. Btw, I don't think I've ever read those comments from other BS's. But I think you hit the nail, smack bang on the head for a lot of us.

A few days after d-day I went on holiday alone. It was on my last day there that I was feeling particularly low and hopeless that I was sitting in a bar. I got talking to a man.

He was 36 (!), single, but with 2 kids. Really nice guy. We ended up spending the whole day and evening together. It was a huge boost for me, as I felt really attractive and wanted.

At this point I was convinced there was no hope for me and H2B. I had spoken to BIL2B that day and he said he thought it might do me good to be taken out by a man.

Obviously, I know what I did was wrong. It surprised me in hindsight how vulnerable I was because of how I was feeling at the time. I would never have put myself in that situation normally.

I think it all comes down to rejection. As the BS, the feeling of having been rejected is all-consuming, especially is WS is still in the fog. This intense need for attention and admiration can make a BS prone to an A.

I told H2B straight away, and he was upset, but it turned things around for us. It was the same day I came home that he pledged to me he would do everything to save us. I think he realised he might lose me if he continued to hurt me.

Eric, hopefully you will understand why you did it and will ensure you do not make the same mistake again. Your marriage may be saved, but it will be in spite of your A rather than because of it. Your A will hopefully act as a wake up call for all involved.

Anyway, just some ramblings on how I see it and my very limited experience. I hope things will get better for you.

Sending lots of love

I do not think Eric is trying to figure out if what he did was wrong or not. He already knows the answer to that question or he wouln't feel like he does now.

Eric,

This can't be swept under the rug. It has to be dealt with or true forgiveness cannot take place. Forgetting is not Forgiving. Both of you are hurting and you need to be able to express that pain to each other.

You have a long road ahead of you my friend. I can't remember if you are in counseling or not but that would be an excellent first step.

God Bless,

Doug

I'm jumping in feet or head first on this one and threadjacking the heck out of ericn's post...

I will attempt to do it with all the politically correct disclaimers needed to make sure that people can get over the knee jerk reaction that if we/I/posters don't agree with the actions/choices that someone has made....

then we are judging.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

AND judging is always BAD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well I don't agree with those sentiments that judging is bad....

I don't think that judging always equates a personal attack..
and I think that everyone is capable of actions that show poor judgement.....

AND
pointing out these acts of poor judgements does not equal that I or others pointing out such things are free of doing just a equal dumb things in our universes....

so if you want to quit reading this post right now go ahead.....

People in eric's post may want to write off the people who don't agree with his choice as turning it in to some type of religious based revulsion or high moral standard to the sexual part of the betrayal...

but in my opinion that's too easy...
that's just copping out of delving into what the real transgression in a one night stand is..

and in MY opinion where the sin lies...if we choose to view it as sinning....

God knows...I mean he litterally knows it feels good...really good.....

I don't think God gets to caught up or too surprised when people go that easy feel good sex route....
It is the deeper acts of betrayal behind the feel good part that potentially bring so much damage to all parties involved ...

It is finding the bigger picture of the true God given gift of human sexuality and bringing honor to that gift by not using it just for the feel good part but for the other parts of it as well...

When we just use the gift of sex as a bandaide to make just ourselves feel better or for some other gain...to me there in lies the sin...of disrepecting all the other facets of sex...

and yep you can toss all those other parts away..and keep the feel good part...but the tossing away is like throwing parts of a present away...and just playing with a certain part of the toy....

NONE of that thinking equates someone as 'bad'..
it just in my opinion shows their lack of understanding the bigger picture ..

how does one who can use human sexuality so flippantly one day...the next go to another person and seek deep committment of fidelity...

that's not a judgement either it is a question...
and perhaps a challenge...

And some parts of this do come down to black and white...

either marriage vows mean something...and some times they hold the greatest meaning in the face of one of the spouses spitting on them....
that it is then that the other or BS is called to hold tight to root meaning of vows in the face of such chaos and insanity....

mis-using ourselves and others for gains....is wrong....

mis-using others to reach a path of forgiveness is wrong

mis-using others to alleviate our own pain is wrong

mis-using others to even a score is wrong...

and I am not saying that is why Eric or others did/do such a thing....

And I'm not saying that Eric doesn't get that it is wrong...

I am saying though, that it is wrong...
and grow weary that I have to defend myself as not judging to say it's wrong....

these are opinion boards....and people are entitled to their opinion...
I believe more damage can be done on these boards that take anti-marriage... anti vow stands based on the fact it is a pro-marriage board...

here's one of the disclaimers lest one be accused of things.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

this does not mean save EVERY marriage..
at any and every cost....

lots of posters have pointed out to Eric the many facets and pitfalls and challenges of his post...many excellent points from different angles and views..

and he brought the post here in the first place...
no one has attacked him personally...

and if one does an act that hurts oneself and others....
are the people that point out the ways it hurts responsible for the pain it causes...or is the act the cause of the pain?

And it is my opinion...that Erics feelings on his trangression have spun it into a positive thing which in my opinion is a huge red flag...for this is something that may bite him hard down the road...and he should be perhaps be prepared for that....

I think that there is such thing judging maliciously...
doing so for the sake of doing it..
doing so to make oneself feel better or superior etc...

I don't see much of that around here...
though one sure does have to defend it a lot...

ark

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>
I will attempt to do it with all the politically correct disclaimers needed to make sure that people can get over the knee jerk reaction that if we/I/posters don't agree with the actions/choices that someone has made....

then we are judging.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

AND judging is always BAD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ark, your problem is that you are just reading out of the wrong bible. You need to get with it, girl. The new and improved politically correct bible has only one commandment: Thou Shalt not Judge. See, no longer are things like lying, adultery, murder, theft, etc, the bad things, but rather, SAYING those things are bad is the real bad thing.

It is now a bad thing, a "judgement," to say that gee, adultery might be a pretty bad thing. so instead of adultery being the bad thing, SAYING it is bad is the real crime! In other words, the TRUTH is bad.

But wait. Aren't we then "judging" those who judged? Wouldn't that be hypocritical? Or is that a judgement to point out that someone is a hypocrite and is doing exactly what they preached against?? It is all so confusing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And to further advance this exercise in mental masturbation, we can pull out another parlor trick and quote Matthew 7:1 out of context. ["Judge not lest ye be judged."] It works really well as long as your subject doesn't ever read Matt 7:5 and catch the real gist of the verse, which is an admonition against hypocrisy, *NOT* judging.

[5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.]

Also, if you accuse folks of being "judgemental" they sometimes will shut up, which is a good thing when you don't want to hear unpleasant TruthTalk!

Would it be too "judgemental" to point out that our prisons are full of people who can't "judge" right from wrong? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>