<small>[ July 28, 2004, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Hi BV. Just a quick note to say I got your post.

I know you understand. I liked how you talked about your children. It is so true that we act before we feel with them. Maybe that is where we are at in our Ms. It is just hard to acknowledge and then do it.

About the call, I did not handle it well. This has to stop. I allow his presence, even his voice to make me feel horrible about myself. I feel like I have to get away.

I am going to pray hard about this. Would love to move. I have to get past OM so I really can focus on H.

My H might be angry, but it is not directed at you. He is just hurt, and he is dealing with it in the same way we are. Venting.

I am sorry if he vented at you. He is frustrated with me. I do tend to retreat into a shell, especially when I expect anger. I have to admit the idea of getting anger in return of something I try to do nice, makes me retreat.

I have to get stronger, because this will be hard. It takes risk. I haven't risked much with H at all lately. I am glad you are there. I am glad I don't really have to explain. You know. Thanks.

The drinking....well...haven't yet today. It has been a crutch for sure. Not sure I have a problem, just don't like the stabbing pain and fear.

onlywords,

Your kindness and patience means a lot. I know I am not where I need to be. I am scared. I have let that control me lately. Not making much sense. Must go. Thank you for your help. Please keep posting. I need your insight. It almost feels like a big sister. Thanks.

Blessings,
Pam

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Broken Vessel - Put the plug in the jug. It will not help you. You are doing very well with this.

Only Words - It would be great if you can find that section of the book. It is called "The message of the affair", and is rather short. But it is absolutely necessary to understand the message, both for WS and BS.

The message is something you were unable to vocalize to your spouse, but nonetheless the feelings were there.

RAP - I hope you will hang in there. I think it would be better if you and H didn't read each other posts just yet. You will not be able to express your true feelings, and he will be too hurt.

Believer: Onlywords found this. Is this the part you were looking for?

"Caution to BS- Sometimes you may think that the WS is fabricating reason for their behavior & dreaming up deficits in the marriage, but please understand that their feelings of guilt and failure are often forcing them to highlight each & every flaw. Instead of dismissing such a list, try to find a major theme or two emerging from the scattershot items. Beware of being overly defensive on your part. (make a list of statements.)..."

If this isn't the part you were talking about, let me know and maybe I could just try to scan and email the page. Hope that helps!

RH

Recovering H - No that is not the part. There is a whole section about "the message of the A". It is something the WS could not tell the BS. Like " I feel powerless", "My needs are not being met", and on and on.

I've been away for a few weeks, and have only just been catching up on this thread.

WWs, I feel so bad for you! It literally pains me to see the turmoil and struggle, and to see the heartbreak.

My WW went through the same turmoil. Sadly, after 16 months of the emotional vacuum, I found my own feelings extinguished. I guess my love was finite, too.

At the beginning of June, WW came to me having had her epiphany. She had rediscovered her love for me and was now ready to work on "us", but MY heart wasn't in it. It took too much of me to be excluded from her heart for so long. Not just the time since d-day, but the months before.

I admire your H for the depth of their love for you and their patience. I truly hope they are not as shallow as I am, and when you do finally come around, they're still there for you.

Hi Uphill. You may have seen some of the exchanges between my H and I. He is NCWalker. We have had a hard time lately. I have been that "emotional vacuum" you speak of.

Are you saying you are now going to divorce? Or are you just feeling drained?

I am so sorry. Please excuse me because I am so tired I can barely see straight. But I wanted to respond.

I hate seeing that you are where you are emotionally. It is not fair what you BSs go through, I know. I am glad she came around.

Are you sure it is too late? I really hope not. Can you give more info?

Glad you are here, and please keep posting. It might help you where you are so empty.

Blessings,
Pam

I am here again tonite.
my day is busy with my
summer classes to chat-
so I am nite person. It
seems we are all doing
the best we can with what
we are capable of. I know
we can expect too much too
soon. it just takes time-
lots of it-for me & for H.
I wish I could hug all of
you gals & we could laugh
& cry together. I told my
H of friend & I getting
together at lake to talk.
He said it does not bother
him. Friend is a neighbor
of ours & classmate of mine.
H doesnt want me to hide-
he likes it when I tell
him about my day-but I am so
cautious anymore about my
encounters with men. I
dont like feeling that way.
my "hug" for all of you
tonite.......
"the gift of love refuses
to label or limit others.
it inspires and encourages
and lifts others, whether we
feel like it or not. Instead
of controlling and dominating
a spouse, love finds ways to
see the good and bring out the
best in spite of the circum-
stances. this may sound un-
realistic. it is, to those who
have not experienced it. to
christians however, it is a
reflection of God's love."

PAL,

That was beautiful. I actually need to apply it a little bit mentally to the xOM. I am at a point where I have to choose to not become bitter.

I am off to bed. My eyes are crossing.

Have a great night, and I always look forward to your posts.

Pam

thanks rap & good nite to you.
have a great & fun weekend-I
will chat soon....
a thought to share....
perhaps, if we walk with God
our sense of wonder is untouched,
we retain our joy at being simply
who we are, faulted, and flawed,
but God's. perhaps if we walk with
God, our lives are truly nothing
but prayer.

I know us BS keep busting in on this thread, but I've been lurking in here to try to gain a little understading in this enigma of fog and confusion. I can't for the life of me understand it!!!!! Why am I reaping the hell for the A that I didn't have???? The aftermath goes on and on and on. BV said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is not fair what you BSs go through, I know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell me about it! I WANT TO TALK TO MY WIFE, BUT SHE WILLLLLLL NOTTTTT TALKKKK TO MEEEE!!!!!!!! WHY???? When I say talk I don't mean about the weather she'll talk about that; or the car, or the kids, or the job! No, I want to talk about us, make some ground for us, press on for us, work on us! I feel like we're moving on after a huge wound and it's still bleeding and ooozing and we're just moving ahead with it bleeding on the floor. Maybe that's good enough for her, but not enough for me!

I was at the house today with the kids, played, cleaned, cooked an awesome supper of baked fish, steamed vegetables and potatos and onions with a dessert. As soon as she came through the door all she had to do was sit down and eat. I even did the dishes while she ran out to go to the store for something. (Meeting needs, meeting needs, meeting needs.....) All in the freakin' hope that maybe, just maybe I could get some kind of need of mine met tonight. We go to bed and I ask if we can talk, she gets all ambivalent and aloof. I can feel my blood boil, teeth grind.... I just get up and go to the pc. At least I can do that now. No more LB for me... But, why not? So she won't turn away from me, oh, but wait, she already is. I have become the most need meetingist fool on the stinkin' planet all for the hope of her turning around and just bursting open and spilling her guts out one day. Fall into my arms and things start to get somewhat normal. Well, I'm beginning to think that is just a dream that I will never realize now. I feel like I'm the only one pulling on this yoke. Marriage is a yoke made for two, what if only one is pulling? You go in circles!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOHHHHH God, help me!

Why do I deserve this treatment?

I'm sorry for the rant. I thought if I shared this in this thread someone could shed some little bit of light on this very very dark subject. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I feel like I'm the only one pulling on this yoke. Marriage is a yoke made for two, what if only one is pulling? You go in circles!!!!!!!!

spinning wheels and going around in circles will only get you nowhere fast... before you run out of fuel.........Uphills post is a very good indicater of that. Good luck on your personal recovery Uphill.

Give a little RAP...Your worth it, your husband is worth it and your marriage is worth it.And DAMIT go give your kids a hug!!!

--------------------------------------------------

Slumber in peace Little Man..April 1 1994-29 June 2004

<small>[ July 03, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: madmax ]</small>

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Hi...Here is what I found in the chapter on the Message of the Affair in Torn Asunder:

Most messages contain a combination of the following components:

"I'm feeling alone and afraid that you are going to leave me. Nobody in my life has ever stayed around for me to lean on, and I'm sure you won't either."

"I feel like a little child inside, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be appropriate to act that way in your presence."

"I have this secret______that I want to share wiith you, but I'm afraid you will make fun of me or try to change me."

"I have had a number of experiences lately which, if I shared with you, I fear would cause you to respect me less."

"I know I am increasingly unhappy, but I don't know how to change, and I'm afraid of how it will turn out."

"Something______is happening to me, and I need to talk about it, but I can't, so I think our marriage needs to change-we both need help in communicating the hard things to each other."

"Something_____is very important to me, but I don't want to act like a child, demanding my own way. I don't want to appear to be a beggar, either- that's humiliating."

"I think I'm figuring out more about each of us. The more you do____, the more I respond like____. That's been interesting to watch, and although I know you don't like me analyzing things, I think it's part of the answer. I wish I could share it with you."

"I miss all the ____ I used to receive in my family of origin, but I know you think that they are crazy, so I'll just keep this particular need to myself. I know you were not used to ___ in your family, and I guess I should be stisfied with that fact, but I'm not. I need to talk with you about this, but I'm scared."

Right before this section, Carder says,
"For whatever rason, [rior to straying, the infidel felt unable to express the message adequately with words. So he "told" the spouse via his actions. The infidel might have attempted to talk about it before the affair, but (1) he didn't have the emotional or communicative resources to identify what he really wanted to say, or (2) he wasn't even aware of what he was feeling inside."

He also says this"

THE SPOUSE'S REACTION TO THE NOW PUBLIC FACT OF INFIDELITY IS THE CRITICAL FACTOR DETERMINING WHICH WAY THE MARRIAGE WILL GO-BACK TOGETHER WITH PROPER PROCESSING OR INTO THE TRASH CAN.

I hope this was what you were looking for...if there is any more you'd like me to find, just say the word. Recovering H told me that there are about ten pages of this book that you can read on Amazon.com.

Broken Vessel,

This is what Pepperband said that I was referring to as a "technique":

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think about what you said here as a potential guiding principle in your life... where might it lead you if applied to other relationships?

If you said this (feelings before actions) and tried to apply it to ~mothering your children~ .... would it seem reasonable to you?????

Haven't you ever felt NON-loving toward one of your kids.... but behaved lovingly none the less?

Sometimes you can take the guiding principle you've been struggling with, and apply it to a different situation, and then you can check out the validity of the idea.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Julie

onlywords -

That is exactly what I was looking for. My WH read the book and said one of these applied to him, but did not tell me which one.

So I think it would be very, very helpful if everyone here looked at these "messages" and tried to see if any applied.

Because before you can fix the marriage, it helps to have some idea what was wrong BEFORE the affair.

Otherwise, the problem continues, but may be covered up with other pain-killing behaviors, such as drinking.

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

broken vessel - You still have some feelings for him. Did you go back because you wanted to see him, or are you "addicted" to him?

Did you get the wine out yet? I hope not. Stick with us, and we will help you through this.