RAP - Forget about what other people think. We love you, your husband and boys love you. That is enough.

When I get down, I count all the blessings I have. That helps to cheer me up.

Also I want to be a proverbs31 woman, and am working on myself.

Good to see you posting again. Also check out the saveyourmarriagecentral board. They have a special section for recovering WW's.

Dear RAP

Just the fact that he is going on and I have days I struggle makes me feel like the biggest loser. At this moment, my thoughts are actually screaming that this guy is a much better, happier, etc. person than me.

You have expressed how I have been struggling and feeling too..

We know we think alike in most things!!

hey, don't forget we are a day nearer to the Proverbs 31 ladies will you!!

Have to go now.

Mr BV is about to post reply to JL THEN READ NC'S POST TO HIM!!!!!!

will post you later,

Soooooooo great to have you back,

I mean loads and loads of great...

Dear Believer,

Am so glad you are there,

please forgive me for not posting much to anyone. I guess by reading through my thread you will all know where I am at in things.

Love you all loads,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Just the fact that he is going on and I have days I struggle makes me feel like the biggest loser. At this moment, my thoughts are actually screaming that this guy is a much better, happier, etc. person than me."

Think about this....

Do you wish OM were miserable like yourself, and if he were, would you feel happier and feel better about yourself?

This makes no sense.

Does this sound like loving feelings to you? Wishing he were as miserable as you.

Sounds more like dependance, right?

Be joyful.... OM is not miserably unhappy. He is free to enjoy his life without being an adulteror. Celebrate his freedom and his happiness.

To show you care about OM, be joyful that he is not miserable.


And realize ... YOU TOO ARE FREE to enjoy your life. Your happiness belongs to you, independant from OM.

Something else to celebrate!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

Thank you RH, believer, BV, and Pepperband.

RH,

Thank you for the encouragement. I am still going through more low points than I would like. Especially since I came home.

But, I will not give up. I have not gotten anywhere near as far as I would like with "correct and clear" thinking, but I do know there is only one way out of this...forward...even if it seems soooooo slow.

believer,

I am very blessed. I need to remember that. I have an awesome family. Incredible kids. A H that is a rock.

Thank you. The proverbs 31 woman is WAAAAAAY out there right now, but hey, I can admire her from a distance, huh?

BV,

As always, we understand each other. Hope Mr. BV is okay.

Thanks for the encouragement. You have come a long way. Give yourself a pat on the back, and i know you will keep it up.

Pepperband,

I appreciate your response. Actually, just last night I was praying for OM's happiness. I do want Om and HIS WIFE together to be happy. It helps me to pray for them so I am not bitter.

I did not manage to say correctly what I meant.

OM will repeat what he did with me. In fact, he probably is already looking for who it will be. I did not wish to see this before, but it is true.

My struggle is with the fact that he is able to keep this lifestyle and be so darn happy. He gets away with it and comes across as this great guy. (Even H said he could see what I meant about him. He is very personable.)

Hate to admit it, but I am finally making the right choices. The repurcussions of what i have done are horrible in my M, in myself, etc.

The right path out is causing tremendous turmoil.

He gets to bop along cheating or whatever, and he gets to be happy while doing it.

I know that sounds mean of me. I know it is. I want him to be happy. But I guess I do want him to have to experience some kind of regret or repurcussions in his life.

I guess that is pretty awful. No one said the "right" path was the easier one.

Thanks for all the input.

I really did need it today.

I am hoping this feeling of this huge OM presence will eventually stop influencing my thinking. I never thought I was intimidated by him. But I would say by my reactions now, that I am.

Blessings,

Pam

Do you know the serenity prayer?

Tuck it into a corner of your mind, and when you obsess over things out of your control... repeat the prayer over and over....

Sometimes it takes me 6 go-rounds of the prayer before I release my (imaginary) control over the uncontrolable.

Let go of thinking about OM's fortunes .... God is in control, not us.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are going to be a happy woman... yes, you are.

Pep

Thanks Pepperband.

I do appreciate it. I have a LOOONNG way to go.

But RH is right. I can be willful. Now I just need to use it the correct way.

Thanks,
Pam

I can be willful.

Me too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

surprise surprise

I think willful is just fine... it just has to be channeled correctly.

Take care...


Pep

Sorry forgot to post this yesterday when I wrote it. Guess better late then never.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Pepperband:
..OM is not miserably unhappy. He is free to enjoy his life without being an adulteror. Celebrate his freedom and his happiness.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep,

I could be off base here, but I believe at least a portion of her problen is that she  is upset (feeling down, whatever) that the OM  IS  going to be Happy CONTINUING to be an adulterer (just not with her).
AHH, there's the emotional catch.

It must be a real downer to know they not only can, but ARE moving on without YOU.........Once again  out there looking for their next conquest or at the least next  Sexual Diversion.

This is just another painful reminder that this relationship was not Ever Really Special, wasn't  The "one" or meant to be.
More likely for OM is was just "fun" and Games.
Cause these types do like to play head games.

Unfortunately RAP is having to face that It wasn't ever even really "oh so right".....  it was just Right NOW!(for the OM).

The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they  mislead you about it).

However, Pep IMO  you are RIGHT ON in the thought that if he was unhappy & miserable  it would DO NOTHING to change her feelings or situation in the least.
It's like if You happen to be  wealthy OR broke...it doesn't affect my Bank account in the least.

RAP: In time you'll see that OM is not your problem, concern, or responsibiltiy. (Nor rescuer or savior).
Truth is He NEVER Was!

OM  is gone and has moved on. (Crosses fingers/knocks on wood ... as NCW winces). 
He has no further power over you  UNLESS  you choose to give it to him.
So  RAP what is your choice??
To Be stronger and retain your own personal power OR  "give" it away Again  sooooo cheaply.

(& by the way: To Some one who never even appriciated it anyway). Sad but true.

P.S. Happy to witness you and NCW putting forth such Effort. Keep it up!

Dear RAP,

Have posted to you on other thread, and I will post you on here when I get back later.

Take care,

Love as always,

Thanks for loaning NC to help!

Take care,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they  mislead you about it). "

I remember getting my hands on a love letter Mr. Pep wrote to OW. (the wife of Mr. Pep's childhood friend)

My H told her all sorts of lovely things... and when I first read the letter, it upset me, because I thought it was "true".

"meant to be together"
"soulmates"
"no matter what happends, we'll always be together one way or another"
"the entire world conspires against us being together"

These affairs are all alike, although the people are all different.

When the A was about 15 months old, the OW had surgery, and she wanted MY HUSBAND to visit her in the hospital. He refused. This is what he said:

"I am not your husband. This relationship is an affair. I don't belong in the hospital when you are sick. Your family belongs by your side. Not me."

The feelings had changed to become an ebb tide. The emotional connection was not lasting.

That's what affairs are. False relationships based on temporary (albeit very real and intense) feelings.

For certain individuals who navigate their lives based on their feelings rather than on their principles, the ebb tide of feelings is seen as a disaster ......

But, it is what it is ....... an affair. That's all. Nothing more. Trying to twist an affair into something else is like trying to will the ebb tide to change dirrections.

I do understand.... but it is what it is...

IT WAS AN AFFAIR

not more, not less.

And, affairs ARE so much "the same" that these books (Torn Assunder and others) can describe the sequence of events and all emotional rollercoasters involved ... and we readers nod our heads simultaneously and say .... "Yes, that's exactly what happened."

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

TopRope, now I am going to change your quote ever so slightly (I'll BOLD the change I am making)...


"The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the WS always knew it was (even if they  mislead you about it). "

The pain of losing the fantasy AFFAIR relationship vs the pain of losing the (fantasy ?) MARRIAGE relationship ....

Most BS will say they were broadsided by the affair... they thought they were in a faithful relationship, a MARRIAGE protected by VOWS ... especially if theiur spouse is a really nice person... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (mine is)

They did not KNOW before the affair was revealed that they were married to a (really nice) person who was capable of such broad lies and deceit.

and it's a pretty big SHOCK!

"I thought I knew you! Who ARE you? Your're not the person I married! The man / woman I married would never do a thing like this!"

The AFFAIR partners, cannot in good faith claim to be truthful individuals. It takes a mountain of lies to have an affair and keep it secret.

Soooooo.... affair "partners" are forewarned they are covorting with a fellow-adulteror, especially if the affair partner is also MARRIED.

It cannot come as too big a shock that the known liar is a liar....

But, this is what the fog does....

"I know he / she lies to his wife / husband / kids in order to secretly meet me for our affair dates .... but I NEVER thought he / she could be capable of lying to ME! He / She told me he / she loved me!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I do see where her hurt comes from.... does she see the illogical thinking that got her here?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepperband and Top Rope,

I am putting together a response. Hopefully not too long-winded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your posts both really got to me...in a very helpful way.

Thanks,
Pam

oops, double post

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

Top Rope and Pepperband, thank you for your posts. It is hard to acknowledge, but I am willing to now.

I could be off base here, but I believe at least a portion of her problen is that she is upset (feeling down, whatever) that the OM IS going to be Happy CONTINUING to be an adulterer (just not with her).
AHH, there's the emotional catch.

Unfortunately, this is it in a nutshell…well almost all of it.

This is just another painful reminder that this relationship was not Ever Really Special, wasn't The "one" or meant to be.
More likely for OM is was just "fun" and Games.

This is where it is going to sound really weird now. Mentally, I had decided to “accept” what the relationship would always be. I knew it was intended to be only “fun” although there were many emotions tossed in the mix.

I never thought he was the “one”. In fact, I remember thinking he was not really even deep down the kind of person I would choose to be close to in my life.

But, the “feelings”, infatuation, almost the drug of choice for the moment to escape what was hurting in my life, was OM. I got such a relief when with him (although much like what alcohol does) I guess I was willing to take it for what it was. I know, pretty bad.

The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they mislead you about it).

This is where it got tricky. I thought I was okay. I thought I was in control. What I realized as time went on was I was not in control. My emotions had totally gotten tied up in this person. Thus the breaking it off because of guilt, and going back over and over again. He had “some” feelings. At this point, I don’t even pretend to know anymore what they were, or the extent of them. He did mislead me, but you have to remember, I thought I was wise to what was going on.


In the end, I felt I really did need him. I really did need him to desire me (so I felt wanted), and to make me feel worth something. I also had a false sense of safety when with him.

I realize how pitiful and horrible this all is. I am not proud of this at all. I became extremely dependant on his acceptance. Which of course was a set up for disaster. Like Pep said, it is what it is. Just an affair. No more, no less.

I was living completely by emotions. I do not want to do that anymore. It will take me a while. Hopefully, this willfulness of mine will come in handy there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So RAP what is your choice??
To Be stronger and retain your own personal power OR "give" it away Again sooooo cheaply.

You got me here Top Rope. It is so hard to face how easily I cheapened myself in the end to get a little “acceptance.” It is actually very frightening when I think about it.

My choice is to retain my personal power. Is it too late to learn how to do that? I don’t think so. I completely lost the old me(don’t want all of it back) and it seems like I am looking for who I am to be now.

Some of the answer is going to have to come first in how I start to treat H.

Pepperband said:

When the A was about 15 months old, the OW had surgery, and she wanted MY HUSBAND to visit her in the hospital. He refused. This is what he said:

"I am not your husband. This relationship is an affair. I don't belong in the hospital when you are sick. Your family belongs by your side. Not me."

It is amazing to hear about this from you. It IS all the same, isn’t it? I am familiar with similar situations.

For certain individuals who navigate their lives based on their feelings rather than on their principles, the ebb tide of feelings is seen as a disaster

Yes…it has been like a disaster to me. Mentally it makes no sense. My self-worth has been wrongly wrapped up in this guy. So when the feelings started to subside, I was devastated. I realize the feelings-based part of me is definitely something that has had a light shined on it from this A.


Also, I do realize H deserves a wife that is not blown around by the wind with every emotion. I feel pretty horrible about this.


Most BS will say they were broadsided by the affair... they thought they were in a faithful relationship, a MARRIAGE protected by VOWS ... especially if theiur spouse is a really nice person... (mine is)

I obviously have not acted like a nice person for a while, but I know that this is exactly how H felt. I know he still can’t believe it at times.

Obviously, my H is pretty smart. Brainy and articulate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don’t’ know if you have had a chance to see his post to CHackler recently, (see link at bottom) but he wasn’t always the straight-laced guy you see here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> In fact, I was considered the nice girl that was dating trouble.

My so-called “Christian” friends did not treat him well in college. I lost a lot of my Christian friends in college for this reason.

They did not understand how such a “nice” girl like me could care for a raucous guy like him.

(If they could see me now, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

Anyway, the point is I did broadside my H and I truly regret the damage in his heart that has been caused. I am just beginning to see what kind of turmoil and questions my actions have caused him.

They did not KNOW before the affair was revealed that they were married to a (really nice) person who was capable of such broad lies and deceit.

Yes, definitely true.

cannot come as too big a shock that the known liar is a liar....

But, this is what the fog does....

"I know he / she lies to his wife / husband / kids in order to secretly meet me for our affair dates .... but I NEVER thought he / she could be capable of lying to ME! He / She told me he / she loved me!"

I never did believe all of what he said for this very reason. Sadly, at the time, I wanted the “fix” he gave me enough to “hope” some of what he said was true. In the end, like I said, I did not have control over my emotions. I had lost all control over my feelings for him.

I do see where her hurt comes from.... does she see the illogical thinking that got her here?

YES, yes, yes. I do see the illogical thinking that got me there. The sad thing is, I didn’t care at the time. I just thought I HAD to have him. He “fixed” my feelings. Total and complete selfishness. I just ended up caring for him more than he cared for me. The pain comes from that realization, and that I am still equating my worth with his acceptance.

You can say all day long that doesn’t make sense, because it doesn’t. I want to change this. It will take time. If you could cut open my brain and change it, I would let all of you do it today!

Anyway, much too long of a post.

I have felt crazy. I have felt completely lost.

Top Rope and Pepperband,

I know it must frustrate you to talk to me. I am frustrated with myself.

Thank you for your input.

I hope you will continue to give it. I really will accept it in the best way I know how.

Thanks,
Pam

chackler thread

I know it must frustrate you to talk to me.

Not at all frustrating... rather rewarding in fact.

Thanks you, for allowing me to share with you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RAP ... try posting strictly about the future or the present for awhile... see if that helps.

Pep

Dear RAP,

Hi. Have been reading all this and learning for myself too.

We are two crazy people aren't we <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I can see me in your posts so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Wow. JL & Pep really give us something to think about and stew about (as I am at the moment, having a pouty lip moment on my thread) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think JL must be sooooooo frustrated with me.

I think I am going crazy too.

We must keep listening to them RAP. They are not giving up on us are they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Am really having a pouty lip moment infact.

I am frustrated with myself.

I know I have made some progress this week but then I feel I blow it 'internally' again.

Still looking for that 'zap' potion...

Was thinking on something today about us in this situation..

We are both at this same stage, and we are both thinking on how come OM has been able to move on as it were and be happy. (Read your earlier posts on this as I have also posted similar thoughts on my thread)

Read Peps reply too and agree. It is as if I want OM to be as confused, sad and struggling as me because it just doesn't seem fair.

I was thinking of you as I was driving along in my car going to pick eldest son up from work.

It was as if God was speaking into my heart the conversation between Jesus and Peter at the end of Johns gospel, where Jesus was asking Peter to 'follow Him'...Peter turned round and saw John the disciple sitting there, and said to Jesus 'but what about him Lord?

Jesus replied 'WHAT IS THAT TO YOU PETER?...YOU FOLLOW ME'

ps...

Accidentally pressed 'add reply' before had finished post!

Soooo I think that is what God was saying to me...

"BV you keep saying to me but but but God what about Om and how come he has been able to move on"

But I (God) am saying to you, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU BV...YOU FOLLOW ME...

God is hitting me with some 4x4's now...

Thinking of you as always, and praying for you & NC

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV,

Thank you so much for your post. It was perfect.

We must keep listening to them RAP. They are not giving up on us are they?

No, they are not, and I am truly grateful. I keep waiting on everyone to walk out, but no one has yet.

Am really having a pouty lip moment infact.

I am frustrated with myself.

I know I have made some progress this week but then I feel I blow it 'internally' again.

Still looking for that 'zap' potion...

I am sorry to hear you had a hard time today. You are making steps forward constantly. I keep hearing what Pep said about feelings. I can’t say it exactly.

But we just let them pass through. I am really wanting to learn this.

Also, I want a zap potion too! Hugs to you BV!

It was as if God was speaking into my heart the conversation between Jesus and Peter at the end of Johns gospel, where Jesus was asking Peter to 'follow Him'...Peter turned round and saw John the disciple sitting there, and said to Jesus 'but what about him Lord?

Jesus replied 'WHAT IS THAT TO YOU PETER?...YOU FOLLOW ME'

H and I both just said “Wow” to this. It spoke to me at exactly the moment I needed it. Thank you BV. Isn’t God cool? He really knows what we need and when we need it. I could use a patience potion too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But I (God) am saying to you, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU BV...YOU FOLLOW ME...

I so needed to hear that! Why does it matter to us BV?

I don’t’ know.

God keeps whispering about His “plans for good and not for evil” to me.

I will be happy when my mind wants to run off on that tangent and not somewhere destructive.

God is hitting me with some 4x4's now...

I understand. You are not running though BV. You are at the gate and you are opening it! I really do see you doing this. It is helping me to not just sit in my own thoughts and stew over all this.

Thank you for the encouragement. It came at just the right time.

Talk to you soon BV.

KY,

I am resisting the urge to make cookie dough tonight. NOT EASY!

Talk to you both soon.


Lisa 103

I am thinking your absence is a good thing? Happy and busy at your job?

Would love to hear about it when you get the chance.

Pam

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

Hi, I was sent over here by Believer when I was desperate and posted in General questions 2 and this thread has been a life saver to me. I can tell you that this all could have been written by me, I am feeling and going through a good portion of what is here. I had an A, am going through terrible withdrawl, am confused, want to run away, want to talk to OM, am feeling depressed, lonely, afraid. Everything you have talked about on here. So many truths here. I am just reading and absorbing it all. It is a comfort to me. D.