Okay, here I am, another cliche. It's great to read all the supportive people.

My wife of 9 years(we're both 34) met someone at work. They have been having what would REALLY constitute as an affair for about 6 months but there was another 6 months prior of buildup.

She loves me. She tells me. She thinks it's wrong. She's sorry. Everything from the books makes sense but she can't just kick the "habit."

We have tried some STOP ALL CONTACT options and they have not panned out. I feel I gave a very strong attempt at Plan A. She didn't...but many don't as I've read. So, Plan B it is.

BUT...

I would like to give her two options for separating but would like opinions.

OPTION A: I write my letter, I move out and in a non-mean way cut off all contact with her and let her actually "DATE" this guy and get to know him, his friends, do NORMAL things with him and have NORMAL conversations with him that aren't all stolen moments and secretive and see what happens. Let her deal with the loss of all the Emotional Needs I filled for her. If she decides he's actually the one(I know, not likely) then I know that and can move on or if she decides she REALLY wants to get out of it, hopefully I'll still be in the condition to work with her on that.

OPTION B: She actually MOVES moves. Like to another state where one of her good girl friends lives and basically cuts off contact from both of us and tries to figure things out. The only thing is this way the bubble of the affair may never seem to have been broken to her and she may still wonder if he WAS the one.
I appreciate your opinions.
schander

schander, first off, you should not be the one to move. The one who is having the affair should always do the moving. Otherwise you just protect them from the consequences of their actions.

I think a better option would be to ask her to move out until she resolves her affair. You can't control what she does when she is gone, though. I would then give her a nice plan B letter and end contact with her until she ends the affair.

Usually this is an effective plan because she suddenly realizes that the OM can't possibly meet all of her needs and it pulls her off the fence. And when she is no longer sneaking around to see him, it removes the fantasy aspect of the affair.

Part of the reason the affair has gone on so long is because she has been able to have her needs met by TWO men from the comfort of home. When she can no longer have her cake and eat it too, it often serves as a rude awakening.

Schander,

Before you implement any plan, what have you done with plan A and are you working with a good IC or MC? Can you do a couple of phone counseling sessions with Jennifer or Steve @ MB?

What books have you read? Surviving an Affair? His needs/Her needs? (Both by Dr W. Harley) Love must be tough (by Dr James Dobson)

Have you both taken the EN questionnaire?

What are your boundaries?

L.

My thought moving out was that she is then forced to live in a house WE lived in. Deal with seeing all of OUR stuff on a contant basis but not being able to have me fill any of her emotional needs since I'm not there.

How do you do a phone session? I would like to.

Surviving an affair is the book I've read among parts of others.

We are not going to have contact except for family emergencies. I think I can do this.

I hope so.

Again, how do I do a phone session?

schander


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> Schander,

Before you implement any plan, what have you done with plan A and are you working with a good IC or MC? Can you do a couple of phone counseling sessions with Jennifer or Steve @ MB?

What books have you read? Surviving an Affair? His needs/Her needs? (Both by Dr W. Harley) Love must be tough (by Dr James Dobson)

Have you both taken the EN questionnaire?

What are your boundaries?

L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

schander,

Orchid had some very good questions, please respond to them/her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My thought moving out was that she is then forced to live in a house WE lived in. Deal with seeing all of OUR stuff on a contant basis but not being able to have me fill any of her emotional needs since I'm not there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, she should move out so she understand what she's giving up. She isn't entitled to the lovely home you built together.

To schedule a telephone counseling session, clicke the 'Counsel' link juts below the Marriage Builders logo at the top of the page.

If you move out, are you prepared for OM to move in with your wife at your home?

She should be the one to face the consequences of the ongoing affair, by finding somewhere else to live.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by schander:
<strong> My thought moving out was that she is then forced to live in a house WE lived in. Deal with seeing all of OUR stuff on a contant basis but not being able to have me fill any of her emotional needs since I'm not there.


L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[/QB][/QUOTE]

That will give her comfort, which would work against you. You want her to feel uncomfortable about the choices she has made. Losing her home will be a high price to pay for the affair. Let her pay that price.

Some of Orchid's questions I will try to answer clearly. Thank you already for the support.


>>>>>Before you implement any plan, what have you done with plan A >>>>>and are you working with a good IC or MC?


I/we are not seeing a good IC/MC. We started seeing one in January right after she told me about it. I of course said that wife needed to quit job where she worked with the person and the counselor did not back me up nearly as strongly as she of course needed to.
Thus, for the past 6 months, the affair really never ended. It tapered off at first since wife does love me and does want to figure this all out and wasn't "talking" to him at work but she was still seeing him everyday so of course it all came back up surpassing where it was before.

I found out about this about a week ago and told her she had to quit. She agreed and and gave the affair partner a short letter saying she could not see him anymore because she realized our marriage is more important. The letter was almost verbatim from the book but shorter. That lasted about three days because of course you can't control the affair partner's desire to make contact. This contact threw everything into overdrive, some more details were revealed and I told her that I was leaving and would not be making contact with her again until things were over. Until the bubble was burst. I also wrote a very strong but loving Plan B letter.

I think I agree with many who say Plan B has more value which follows since there is so much more risk but it's the only way it seems where there is a concrete end. The affair doesn't fade, it is revealed to be what it really was. An illusion. We still love each other very much and tried to spend LOTS of time together once she agreed to quit her job but she was too far gone.


>>>>Can you do a couple of phone counseling
>>>>>sessions with Jennifer or Steve @ MB?


I don't know. I wanted to but money is an issue so I will try to find someone good locally using the tips for finding a good one. My insurance is very good and covered the last one we had. Lot of good that did me : )


>>>>>What books have you read? Surviving an Affair?


Yes. It has been wonderful and wife has read much of it as well. She hates reading it because she knows she's reading about herself but she does read it because she wants the bubble to burst(her words).


>>>>>>Have you both taken the EN questionnaire?


Informally. We are both very clear on what was "missing" and talked long and hard about the fact that if it's missing, it's not gone and it was there. It was missing before we met each other and we found it together, IN each other.


>>>>>What are your boundaries?


I'm not sure what you mean? There is no contact going on right now except for family emergencies. The affair partner is not allowed to the house. Ahhh, the house issue. I do think there is validity to my thinking since I know it is VERY hard for her to come home and SEE what she has lost by me NOT being there but I also see the validity in making her leave. I know I have to decide quickly since it has already been a couple days this way and I don't want it to seem like I'm flip-flopping at all.

thank you, schander

Comments on latest reply would be great.

I think : ) I am decided in asking her to move out. I will try to do this tonight and give her until saturday to do it.

schander

comments on my answers to your questions would be GREATLY appreciated.

schander

Hi Schander,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Orchid: What are your boundaries?

Schander: I'm not sure what you mean? There is no contact going on right now except for family emergencies. The affair partner is not allowed to the house. Ahhh, the house issue. I do think there is validity to my thinking since I know it is VERY hard for her to come home and SEE what she has lost by me NOT being there but I also see the validity in making her leave. I know I have to decide quickly since it has already been a couple days this way and I don't want it to seem like I'm flip-flopping at all.</strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boundaries are what you will settle on as fixed areas of acceptance or no tolerance. After all the pain and confusion cleared, for me it settled on the fact that the OW was not welcomed in my life, I did not want her in my life and chose NOT to have her in my life. Even if that meant giving up the WS. It took almost 9 months to come to that realization. OW did not go away for another 2 years after that realization.

So be patient, that realzation may take a while and you may go through several revisions.

As for phone counseling, please look at this link: MB's Counseling link

You sound like you have done the best you can and did a pretty good job. However, the fix is not all within your control. I believe you already know that. You are closer to recovery than many but it is still in the fragile stage. It is critical you work on you a bit more. When you feel you are done with plan A and get couseling support to that effect, Steve or Jennifer will help you to the next step. I maybe necessary even if you think you are seeing progress in your W.

Please read the book His Needs/Her Needs and Giver/Taker. Both will help you have insight on the differences between men and women and how to communicate better. The books are by Dr W. Harley.

Hope this helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

My situation is similar only stretched out over a much longer time period. Jennifer's counseling helped me prepare for the confrontation that I had to do last Sunday....the preparations(because of timing/DD issues) took 2 MONTHS. I was also going to hit hard and fast on the weekend that "I had had enough". After calming down and getting an emergency call from Jennifer, a very careful plan was established that considered many different options for outcomes. I feel very fortunate in that the outcome for me appears to be more than I could have ever dreamed of. The past week has been like a dream that I am scared that I will wake up from. I/we are not "there" yet...but I believe that we are finally and truly on our way. My first advice...don't rush into anything. If I had rushed in hastily 2 months ago when I was so angry and feeling betrayed, I know in my heart that I wouldn't be in the position that I am today.

I see alot of hope in your WW's comment that she wants the bubble to burst. I take that to mean that she really wants things to be different than they are, she just needs your help and strength right now. Part of the strength that I am talking about is the steadfastness of your heart and character.

I think you are getting some great advice here and are also coming to some good conclusions on your own.

Great advice; 1)SHE moves 2)try to be as patient as possible 3) determine your boundaries

Great conclusions; sit her down and give her a letter that tells her that YOU cannot continue as you are living.

Know your boundaries. But be willing at the same time to hear and recognize what she has to have. If you would like, I can post a copy of the letter that I used. It went through about 6 versions with Jennifer's help and my looking back at it every time a couple of days after I would write/edit it....patience <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's amazing how much better you have all made me feel. Again, just knowing there are so many people who are/have been suffering with the same thing is incredibly liberating.

She is moving out tomorrow.

Her friends, I should say OUR friends are all preparing interventions for her : ) They are all SOOO freaked out. Obviously things weren't perfect but they were pretty darn good until she stopped allowing my love units in and started letting someone else's. So many people, including W's brothers and two ABSOLUTE best friends said they always hoped when they got married they had a relationship like we had. I told them to tell her that. The fog is so thick she can't acknowledge ANYTHING good from our marriage of 9 years. I had to remind her in my PLAN B letter that we used to sneak off to make out, pull the car off the road and take work/study breaks together too. Again, I told her that if something's missing it's not gone, just missing and that it was missing in our lives before we met each other and we found it together. That we didn't get married on a whim. She tries to say "but that was so long ago" and I and her friends have been forcing her to realize it wasn't that long ago. We've been showing her letters, cards, pictures from ONE year ago, from right before she started letting this person in, and WHAT DO YOU KNOW...? we were happily married. I can honestly say "happily married" because a HUGE part of this happening is not DIRECTLY related to our relationship. She has also been feeling lost for the last 2 years. She taught high school for seven years and quit because she felt burned out and wanted to do more of the creative things she loved doing and so I encouraged her to quit. The problem was that teaching had consumed her life so much that we had both gotten hardened to the fact that she was too busy/we didn't make time for quality "couple time." Many of my creative things were also off and running and so I wasn't as active as I could've been in helping her make the transition out of that strict work schedule into a more bohemian lifestyle : )

She really did/does feel lost. She's looking for her purpose. I actually just YESTERDAY did a commercial thing for THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE and grabbed a copy. Chapter 16 is amazing. She already had the book so in my PLAN B letter I told her to read it. Don't know if she has yet.

The OP of course keeps telling her to "follow her heart" (pass me the popcorn and a barf bag please). People who "follow their heart" commit suicide, kill people, fly planes into buildings. They are called crimes/acts of passion for a reason. Her friends, our friends have been telling her to follow her heart but look deep, as Dennis Leary might say, "down in the cockles." : )

Thank you all.

Finally, really, who do I tell? As far as our friends that are MORE my friends I'll tell whoever I think I need to tell and whoever will support me. As far as people that are MORE her friends and/or her parents, other family members, I of course don't want to broadcast it for a myriad of reasons but I do think some of them MIGHT put some healthy pressure on her to REALLY think about what she's doing.

Much love,

schander

Uh, let's see here, how do you guys do this..

Married 9
affair 6/2003 - ?
solid Plan B as of 6/18/04
hanging tough

[QUOTE]Originally posted by burtonzoo: If you would like, I can post a copy of the letter that I used.


I would appreciate that. I don't have mine right now but maybe once I'm back in the house tomorrow night I can reciprocate.

schander

Schander,

My feelings are at odds with what most posters are telling you about who should move out. I agree with your first idea, of you leaving and forcing her to be surrounded by the memories of your lives together. My WW is in a community that we are well known and I am sure she is being asked where is hubby. We also have three beloved cats, and that forces her to stay home on weekends while she knows I am at our beach home on the California coast. I have stripped the beach home of 99% of triggers(pictures, mementos, personal items etc)that are very painful.

The next shoe that will be dropped is that I have stopped paying ALL bills for our home, including mortgage payments. When she gets home from a trip that she is on with her mother, she will be faced with the monetary repercussions of her "new" life. She makes a good living and can pay these but her compulsive spending will take a huge hit as she scrambles to get by on just the essentials. She has always been spastic about our credit ratings and I know they will be paid, but
not by me. I am determined to "give" her the life that her actions demand.

First, I was planning on letting my W know that there are two chunks of time each week where I will not be home to allow her in to pick up needed things. This doesn't seem to compromising to me and there will UNDOUBTEDLY be things she left that she needs for work or whatever.

Second, cutting off contact and having her move out are my most powerful weapons. She by no means depended on me as the breadwinner. We make approximately the same amount and it's not much and other than that our bills/spending has been pretty communal. Our cars and home are paid for(it was a VERY cheap house) so my cutting off paying of bills would be inconsequential. When Plan B was just starting we confirmed that we would continue to put paychecks toward bills/savings until a different idea was approved and that we wouldn't do any unusual purchases/spending during this time.

So, what about that "open house" time?

schander

Hi schander,

I always say that my WH never knew how unhappy he was until he met the homewrecker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I too gave my WH all kinds of cards,e-mails and such to remind him of how much we loved each other even a week before the adultery began.It seems that he forgot that we used to have a happy marriage.Not perfect,what one's are but it was a good one.Only,a single,30 year old who lived with her parents up until last December with no responsibilities except driving to and from work wearing thongs made him realize that he was missing out and wasn't loved.GRRRRR.Everyone on earth that knew us except him knows that is not true.I have PROOF and everyone thought we had the best marriage.According to my WH,all that was lacking from me was spontaneity,hugs and kisses.He claims that he gave me 98% spontaneous hugs and kisses all the time and I got a lowly 2%.Well,so much for averages and I know that's not true which is why this is so painful.If that's all that was troubling him though,I could have easily been all over him as much as he wanted had he just told me.But I know the real problem runs deep inside of him and he has yet to deal with it.

Anyway,regarding your WW.Make sure that anything she happens to leave behind you scoop up and place in a bag for her,say,in the garage for later pick up.That way she will have no reason to enter the domain.

And I can see your point that you think,if your WW comes home,she will look at all your stuff,see that your not there,maybe shed a tear and remember old times....BULLCOOKIES! She is not thinking that way which is why you have to hit her in the pocketbook.Or,hit her where it hurts regarding the home.As an example,my WH and I bought our dream home about 1.5 years ago.He is about to lose all privilages to being here but it is just part of all the losses he will collect after we D.All for the homewrecker.He loves to be here puttering around doing repairs or what not and being togehter as a family but that is about to change.You have to take away that which they need or subconsciously desire.It may mean time with you,or time with kids or being at the home or having that extra cash that they are used to.etc.Get it? If you move out of the home,your WW will not miss you(yet) but she will be thankful she has a place to crash.

To this day,my WH still thinks we are going to be friends and he keeps pushing that because I keep telling him that we won't.He knows deep down that he is going to lose me,if not as a wife,as a friend of 20 years and he is struggling big time with that.So I am taking that away not to punish him,but because at this point,where you are not at yet,I have to for my sanity.But for many WS's,once the communication is cut off,things start to happen.OP usually cannot meet all the needs of the WS so the WS starts to fidget and hopefully the fog starts to dissipate.

Hang in there.

o

<small>[ June 20, 2004, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Little update.

I'm about three days into PLAN B and am happy to also confirm that at least it's working. WW is complaining to friends about me not talking to her. Last contact was thursday when she asked if I could pick up a father's day present for her dad. I told her that wasn't a family emergency, please don't do it again, I can't pick up the present. She told her parents yesterday not knowing I had told them first. I was VERY worried they would react wrong. Meanly. Call her names. NOT stuff that would help. I encouraged them to let her know how disappointed they were but not to call her names or simply tell her she's bad because then it's just that noone understands her love for the OM. Best of all, when she found out that I told them first, she was mad and wanted to know what I had told them. They told her, "He told us to be nice." That must've CRUSHED her since of course she think I think she's CRAZY and am trying to convince all of her friends and family she's crazy. She's starting to understand a LITTLE bit that I'm not the only one who thinks she's making a collossal mistake.

Then, yesterday, the first REAL proof it's at least working and getting to her. We passed on the road. I think it looked pretty believable that maybe I just hadn't seen her but I knew she would have seen me. I was on my way to where I was staying until she moved out(which happens today). She did not know where that was. So, I hurried to the place and hurried upstairs to a window and a few minutes later...her car pulls in, parks for a few moments and then leaves. She actually must've pulled a u-turn to try and come talk to me.

ohhhhhhh, I can do this.....

schander

hi All- I don't know if I'm in plan B or not. dday was 10.02 nc-continued contact blah blah til may 15th 2004- for sure contact and he walked out with nothing one month ago today. we have financial issues to share as I am a homemaker. I teach 8 weeks of summer school but that equals 2 of his paychecks total. sons live at home-work and pay thier own bills and tuition but not "board"

1st week h was VERY angry when I saw/emailed or phoned. 2nd week not so- a few friends saw him around and chatted. now we are beginning 5th week of MIA- I know he goes to ow house- practically neighbors. he SCREAMS in my EYE that there is NO A now- he didn't leave for her- doesn't want to raise ow young child etc. when asked if he wants to be THROWN out he yells NO! want a D? I don't know or I don't think so. Why don't you just choose? I'm not ready to talk. Why don't you tell us to just P*** OFF? no answer.

Sons don't talk to him at all. OS called h on Fathers day and got no response. 3x. I haven't talked to h in a few days. I did give h a letter 2 weeks ago- sort of B letter- can't have a third person in our M- come home-you are welcome. He has asked for a few things- I said bring the police and help yourself. The locks are changed. We have to have some feeling of safety. h must have a private space somewhere that we can't go in and out....so now we do too.

Meanwhile......what next? I hate this. I absolutely don't want a D and pray fervently that we can put our M and family back together. H was raised a Christian child and lived as a Christian man. so I wait.....haven't done anything mean or agressive-only fwd. his calls to work and told whoever came in the door that he is not here.he hasn't told ANYONE.

mid life crisis???????

help!

PEACE OUT

<small>[ June 21, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: sprezzatura ]</small>