I have been doing okay for the past few days, staying strong and keeping things together pretty well.

The sparrow just called and wants to get together tomorrow to talk. As soon as I saw the number my heart raced and I started to shake.

I said, "I don't know what your plans are for where you're going to be sleeping, but I think it would be better if you didn't stay at the house." After a long pause, she said, "Okay." I did not give any explanation.

She probably wants to talk divorce, financial arrangements, stuff like that. I thought I'd be ready but I'm suddenly freaking out.

GC

gc,

your still strong.

you stood up for yourself by telling her she couldn't just crash at your place whenever it was convenient for her.

Take a couple of deep breaths....has anything really changed in the last couple of days?

I know, not much help.

God Bless

Doug

no matter how much i try to prepare or anticipate my H still catches me off guard occasionally. i haven't seen my H since march but will be seeing him over the 4th of july. try to think of things she will say or ask ahead of time and how you would answer them. remember no LB's, if you can't think of what to say then just don't say anything or say "i don't know what to say." check out my sessions w/SH thread. i ask SH a lot of what if questions. what if my H says this what if he says that, what if i ask him or tell him this and he says this.

i'll bump up that thread for you just in case. remember don't try to educate her, you can't control or change her. this is a chipping away process at the walls she has built around herself and just take whatever she says for the most part and let it roll off your shoulders. follow your words w/actions. if you've said you've changed and have then let that come through in any encounters you have w/her. be extremely guarded and/or sensitive to where she is and again watch the LB's this includes demands no matter how subtle, DJ's, and AO's.

we are w/you buddy, hang tough, take the high narrow road, it's a "rough road" but it makes all the difference. prayers to you, RR

Gray -- Try not to get all worked up. I know... easier said than done. She may not even want to talk; that could have just been an excuse to get her into the house, so she could stay there. And since you quashed that (good job, BTW), she may decide not to even come by.

Either way, just show her your Plan A face and you'll be fine.

Thanks, RR, I will reread that topic right away.

I'm not worried about AOs, but DJs, independent talk, and controlling talk are easy to stumble into, as is the habit of telling her what she thinks.

GC

Does anybody have advice for me if she wants to talk D? I can handle talking about dividing finances during the separation (her place is ready in a week) - I just need to have my budget figured and make sure she gives me her half of the house payment. But I am not ready to start cooperating in any kind of divorce negotiations. Is there a tactful, non-controlling way to tell her this? Is "I'm not ready to talk about that yet" good enough? I think she's in a hurry. Thanks,

GC

graycloud, if she brings up divorce, just tell her that you really don't want a divorce, that you think your marriage has a future, BUT that if she wants to file, you will understand. That last admission will take all the wind out of her sails.

Did she tell you wanted this "talk" before or after you told her you didn't want her to stay at your house?

BTW, excellent job on defending your boundaries about not letting her spend the night. You handled that well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks, ML. It was after she requested the meeting that I told her I didn't think she should stay here. She was clearly not expecting it. It felt good to not be the sad tomato that gets stepped on for a change.

Tonight I went out and got some clothes that fit me a little better (I've shrunk). Tomorrow she'll see a slimmer gray dressed in something she's never seen. I'm-a surprise that sparrow every chance I get.

I also got myself an appointment with a therapist today.

If I could just get my wife back...

GC

Hang in their Gray - you will be in my prayers tonight.

the best SH response i could advise if the D topic comes up is just to say "i'm not in a position where i am ready for that right now." that can pretty much be used in a lot of situations, even when talking to people who don't understand why you are doing what you are doing. another one would be to say "i can't in good conscience walk away from something i know could be better."

these WS unfortunately had a headstart on the breakup of the M. so the fact that i can say i'm not ready for this can't be dismisseed. i mean my h had already convinced himself at least 3 months before i found out that our M was over and just because i know now doesn't mean i'm ready. don't give up, you are capable of more than you ever dreamed but don't get your hopes up today, she may not even show, expect it. that way you won't be disappointed. the plan w/letting her see the "new" you is a good one. God Bless, RR

Graycloud,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She probably wants to talk divorce, financial arrangements, stuff like that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't know that. It may be that she has come to her senses and wants to come back.


I know you don't want to get your hopes up and be disappointed or rejected, but try not to assume the worst.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After a long pause, she said, "Okay </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't close the door on her yet. Listen to what she says, and if you don't know what to say, tell her you are listening . Let her talk. Be kind.

If she talks about plans etc., advise her to take some time to think about it, not to make any hasty decisions right now.

When you got married, you didn't rush into it. There is no need to rush out of it.

My impression is that she is unstable , confused, impulsive, and she needs you to bear with her, and be strong and loving.

I think she is wavering, having second thoughts.

Shul

OM's wife just realized that OM has access to the email she has been using to communicate with me. Whoops. Oh, well. I haven't said anything I'm ashamed of or that I regret. A few vents, but nothing serious. In fact, the messages I've written probably make me look pretty good, and if he does read them he might prefer to not share them with the sparrow.

Thanks for the positive attitude, Shul. Sadly, from what OM's wife tells me, it appears the sparrow is scheming, scheming with OM. He's especially in a bind with his wife being a SAHM with a 2.5-year-old and another baby on the way.

Oh, this is just rotten. But even though it seems hopeless, I won't give up until the fat lady has sung.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> It felt good to not be the sad tomato that gets stepped on for a change.

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see .... YOU have a gift for ~word pictures~.

I always appreciate word pictures when used to express feelings.... perhaps your wife would too....?


A sad tomato with shoe prints on his back is not attractive .... so GOOD FOR YOU!

Attract her with your strong masculinity, your solidness. Show your feelings with word pictures, but do not become a fleshy glob at her feet.

Learn to communicate your feelings without falling to pieces. Use word pictures!

You have a pretty good chance at recovery, I think.

Pep

Pep, you make a very good point. One of the things my wife did early on when she was trying to give OM a "back off" signal was, instead of saying "Back off, dude", to rearrange the photos around her desk so I was a prominent figure in every picture. Like many women I suppose, she prefers to communicate in these vague, ambiguous ways.

One of the things OM did that really moved her was to do a painting which he called "Spring" because, he told her, "You are my spring". She went gaga for this.

GC

I've got to bump this thing again. I still have not heard from WW regarding the meeting we're supposed to have tonight. But I have received permission from OM's W to reveal to the sparrow everything I know. OM met one of his W's friends for lunch and here's her description of what OM told her friend:

"he is done. period. he likes being passive and doesnt want to be with an assertive mate. he doesnt want to and wont change. not even for his children."

I am not nearly as assertive and domineering as OM's W, but the sparrow's and OM's portrayals of their marriages have been nearly identical so far, so I suspect that she considers a similar difference between us to be an insurmountable barrier to true and lasting love.

An example of a thing the sparrow is unaware that I know: that the weekend she spent at her family retreat to "think things over", during which she claimed to have gone on many soul-searching walks and bike rides, and "tried to miss you but didn't", OM was staying nearby and almost certainly she did her soul-searching with him.

I don't want to tell her these things in a malicious, gotcha way. But I think it's important for her to know how much her A hurts me, and she has not really even acknowledged its existence to me. I also think it's important for her to know that I still love her and for her to see the changes I'm making and to know my desire to stay in this marriage.

I will be compassionate, forgiving, and the picture of empathy. I'll be pleasant and strong. I'll avoid DJs and aggressive terms such as "lie" and "affair". I won't tell her what she thinks, and I'll admit that I cannot control what she chooses. More advice is definitely welcome. Thanks to everybody.

GC

graycloud - Good luck to you. I think you can do this. By all means, be truthful with her. Let us know what happens.

Gray,

Can I ask you a question? What kind of person is your wife (or was you wife before A)?

Does she have values, morales and does she like kids? I'm trying to get a picture of her here.

The reason I am asking is because I cannot imagine a woman staying with a man who would leave a pregnant wife and 2.5 yr old child for another woman.

I just don't see it.

You are are strong, entertaining, sensitive kind of guy. What woman wants a passive piece of S**T
wimp like that?

I think you are playing your cards very well.

And remember I at one time was the "OW".

I should also add -

I am in no way disrespecting your wife. I just think when the fog clears she is going to take a fall. And your strong arms are going to catch her. This just happened way too fast. It doesn't add up for a reason. It won't last.

Weaver

Weaver, thanks for asking. She was brilliant - attractive, funny, clever, generous, and moral, though we did not practice any religion. She hated the thought of being seen as a bad guy, and hated confrontation. About a year ago she hit the mirror on a parked car and left a note and paid for the repairs. She was raised Catholic. She loves children. For a long time we agreed that we did not want them, and I think her feelings began to change but she did not bring it up until the A began. She is smart. She likes to drive fast. She wears very cool clothes (but not outside what makes sense for her age) and she does yoga twice a week. She is successful at her job as a catalog merchandiser. She is a little clumsy and not all that great with the hand/eye coordination. She likes to drink beer and wine, but rarely has too much. She loves rock and roll.

I find it incredible that she would be attracted to this wet noodle of a boy. She seems to think the two of them are similar in their generosity and in their tendency to give in to their partners. I wonder if she thinks they make a better match and would cooperate well because of this, or if she feels she can wear the pants in this relationship. She likes that OM is artistic and romantic. I am also, but not in the effusive, showy way that he seems to be.

GC

Don't wonder about what she is thinking right now.
She's not.

It won't last with this guy. Show her who you are, what you are made of. And that is a strong,
caring, generous, creative, intelligent, fun guy.

And you are going to show her this by doing exactly what you are doing. And doing with class.

She will be back. Hang in there!