#1 - I have no idea (you'll figure it out)

#2 - Just hang up?

LL - you'll figure all this stuff out. you're a
smart lady.

He probably won't be working too much longer so I wouldn't really worry too much about the money part.

There is so much more I want to add but I won't. I hope and I pray that everything works out for you. I think you still love this man, very much or this would not be so hard. All the more reason to do it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Okay guys, you are avoiding answering my questions. Please refer back to items 1-4 in my above post (or please---at least items 1-2) and tell me how YOU'D work with or around them if you were in my shoes.

They may sound petty but I know they will come up, and probably sooner into Plan B rather than later.

I'm not trying to be stubborn here. I'm genuinely asking for ideas because I haven't come up with any workable ones.

SERIOUSLY!! Help me on this one. D**n it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, that's your job to figure it out, dear, not ours. You are trying to manipulate the argument into: if y'all can't figure it out FOR ME, then I can justify not going into Plan B. Ain't going to fly! You aren't the world's only BS who CAN'T go dark.

You don't need any justification. You are a big girl, take responsibility for your own decisions [or lack thereof]. I'm sure if anyone tried to help you with these hypothetical situations, you would only come up with 10 MORE excuses and I think you know it.

You want to go into Plan B, you have to figure it out. If you don't want to go into Plan B, then don't go, but don't waste our time with all these never ending gymnastics [excuses] designed to buy some cover. You don't need our approval, LL.

Oh yeah! It was mental masturbation, not constipation. LOL! That makes me laugh out loud. How funny of me to get those two wonderful words mixed up. I *crack* myself up.

OK, LL, the reason we are not answering your list of questions, is because we all see workable solutions in our own situations. My H deposited his paycheck, I checked the balance online, knew how much I had, no talking.

We had something unexpected come up, I handled it. IF I was tempted to contact H at any time, I had to get really REAL with myself about my motive. I actually amazed myself at what I handled on my own.

Plus, why the heck do you want to involve your WH in your kids' lives on purpose right now? So he can buy DD her smokes? Come on! They are older, they are busy, they know what is going on. Good grief. If cutting him off from you completely cuts him off more from his kids, in the condition he is in right now, I say the better for you all. IMHO.

I still got my popcorn. Next . . .

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong> Oh yeah! It was mental masturbation, not constipation. LOL! That makes me laugh out loud. How funny of me to get those two wonderful words mixed up. I *crack* myself up.

SS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol! You goomball! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I got quite a kick outta that! constipation...masturbation, whatever!

Okay, I shut off the A/C in my house because I'm feeling cheap and can deal with heat and don't want the higher electric bill, but it's a little stuffy here upstairs, and that and the constipation and mental masturbation and all are making me testy.

I think you won't answer my questions because you don't have rock-solid, stay-dark ideas either.

First, in answer to Weaver's comment: Sure--I DO love him a great deal. The love isn't like that for a husband, which is why I'm not sure I want him back in that capacity. But it's genuine love and concern for his wellbeing as a part of my family for the last 23 years. I am not able to say "You hurt me greatly...I don't care what happens to you anymore and I hope you get your just reward."

Weaver also wins the only prize I'd give so far, if I had a a prize to give. The "hang up" was actually something I didn't think of. I was trying to come up with how I was going to not answer my pages at all, and that didn't seem an option that was going to fly with the company.

The paycheck thing: Yes SS, my WH deposits his paycheck and I have online access. When the deposit is the standard amount, it's not a problem. But take last week. It was almost $200 less than normal. I thought he'd missed work while I was gone, but turns out he'd just taken out a cash advance during the week.

I could call his boss each time the deposit looked abnormal and ask. I'm just concerned that it might piss them off more than a little. (It was the only half-decent idea I came up with so far.)

------------------------------------------------

WH did change my oil tonight after work. I was carrying the supplies with me as I didn't want him stopping at the house. He wasn't able to immediately fix my door, though. The window still is shifting, so I may have to take it in after all. Credit cards to the max, here I come!

Out of tonight's conversation (where I appeared fairly well-adjusted, calm and peaceful and he appeared near death complete with dry heaves):

Him: "I'm not sure where I'm sleeping tonight. I guess at the shop."

Me: "Can't you drive to the camper? Where's the rental car? Does she have it?"

Him: (looking down) "Yeah..."

Me: "What if she wrecks it? You'll get creamed. She has no license. Or did you pay her restitution and take her to get it."

Him: "She has a license. She's going to pay me back."

(working on my car....silence and small talk....)

Him: "I've dug myself a rut I can't get out of."

Me: "You can get out of it. But I can't help you. I've done you no favors by trying. I am concentrating on myself and keeping DD out of trouble now. That's all I have energy for. You're an adult."

Him: "I know..."

Me: "You know, when you started this, I thought I was going to die without you. I didn't really want to go on. But in all honesty, God kept me going. And now I'm doing better."

Him: "I had to do something. I had to get a place to live. I couldn't keep living the way I was. I had no choice based on your comments."

Me: "You're right, I will not entertain thoughts of getting back together with you the way things are right now."

(more work...more small talk...)

Me: (as the lightbulb slowly goes on) "Just a curious question. She's moving in with you, isn't she?"

Him: (first shaking his head no, then stopping, then looking very ill, and finally) "What else was I supposed to do? I couldn't afford a place of my own (untrue, btw--just needed to be a cheaper place). I wouldn't have done it but she finally got a job and was going to lose it because she was going to have to move to Ames."

Me: "She has a mother who drives to Des Moines each day and a father who lives here. You had a choice. I actually feel sorry for the baby."

Him: "I feel sorry for the whole family. Why do you think I keep doing these things?"

Me: (first real LB--sarcastic tone) "What about OUR family? How do you thing our kids felt when you walked out to help another set of kids?"

Him: "You keep telling me our kids are doing fine without me."

Me: "They're doing fairly well now. But it was very hard on them at first. It doesn't matter--water under the bridge at this point."

(He talked some more about wishing he could die. He asked me if I was paying his life insurance. He asked me to go ahead and let the jack down, which I almost did out of habit, and then realized he was still under the car.)

As he was filling my car with oil, I asked him again to consider listining to God, that there was still hope for his life as long as he was alive.

Okay, so probably said things that I shouldn't have. But other than the one sarcastic comment, I was very calm and tried to be relaxed and peaceful.

But even though I know he's with OW and probably having SF frequently with her, and even though I pretty much expected this, it does sting to know they're going to officially be setting up house together starting Wednesday.

Yes, I realize that this coming weekend would be an ideal time to go to Plan B.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>
I think you won't answer my questions because you don't have rock-solid, stay-dark ideas either.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, I'm sure you'll figure it out when you're ready. As soon as we would come with an answer you would come up with 10 more excuses that need "rock solid answers."

But thats not the point. The point is that you have to figure it out on your own. And you will when you are ready. When you are in Plan B, you have to figure it out on your own anyway. We won't be around to micromanage your life.

Just say no to Plan B and move on. No one will be mad at you.

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I am still laughing about my word mix-up! Sorry it is at your expense, but it makes me laugh so hard! On so many different levels!!!!!

I can't stop laughing. It is making my H laugh, too. He's like, "You really crack yourself up, huh." And I'm like, "Yes! I do!"

Ah, a good laugh is so good for the soul. LL, you can recount a conversation so well! I was reading your dialogue between you and WH, and it was so interesting! Like I was there! I can never remember words like that . . . unless I type them and can reread them later! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This is such an interesting thread. I am having a good time! LL, are you having a good time? Aren't I so silly? Perhaps I shouldn't have had the chocolate dipped cone at McDonald's. Does anybody else have chocolate dipped cones at their McDonald's? I think it is new. We just saw them tonight and sampled. Delicious! And LOTS of sugar.

Anyway, you should try one. Lots of love!

SS

You quit eating that sugar, you bad girl!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LL, you are getting a lot of attention here. Good for you, I am jealous.

LNH, yes lots of attention, but like we used to say about the kids when they were little--it's not good attention, it's BAD attention. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

SS, that was not a word-for-word description though it was as I best remember what was said.

I should have begun it with "conversation went something like this". My mistake. (Although I can commit a conversation to memory fairly well. I've developed the talent(?) well in order to do all the analysis (aka mental masturbation) on it later.

No chocolate dipped cones at our McDonalds yet (though I'm not a big ice cream junkie so might have missed it. Just give me butter. Everything is better with butter, or sour cream.)

I spoke with my pastor tonight about my letter after giving him a chance to read it. It has his blessing as well. It is his opinion that it is well-written and is not harsh or unreasonable.

He wants me to let him know when I've delivered it to WH because at that point, he wants to talk to WH about where he is with God (not where he is with me, or as a ploy to get him back to our church). He has hesitated at this point because didn't want to get in the middle of what WH and I were doing.

I gave him my permission because I don't see how I can't. He's the only Christian influence that WH might have around him. I just know that WH will spill the beans about what he found out recently about a HUGE, HUGE mistake I made 7 years ago, and the pastor doesn't know because I didn't have the guts to bring it up tonight.

In fact, tonight's mental masturbation since speaking with my pastor has been mostly about how that "thing" happened 7 years ago and I didn't tell my H at the time (because of the situation, I was worried that he'd walk away from God and church), And so he didn't have the opportunity to decide if he wanted to stay or to leave me because if we don't use Mr. Clinton's definition of SF, I broke vows. Thus, he could decide it's beyond what he can accept, even though I repented turned from it, and technically D me right now and be free to remarry. I'm really the sinner and the vow-breaker who is destined to stay single for the rest of my life.

(How's that for a new twist to think about??)

I had a tooth filled today and my left side of my upper lip was paralized and drooping for the better part of the afternoon. I was concerned at first because it was so bad, and thought "Wouldn't this be awful if it stayed this way? I'd be repulsive." But then I decided it might be a really good thing because no one would give me a second look, thus no temptation not to remain single. (But then my lip recovered...)

LL

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Oh my heavens, LL, you are . . . I am speechless. First, you are funny as crap. Very good sense of humor, very charming.

Second, you are brave. I am glad you gave permission for your pastor to talk to WH, even though you know he will tell something you want kept secret. Well, secret in that there are over 35,000 members on this site . . . but, you know what I mean. That takes guts.

My sugar high has worn completely off, I watched a movie, now I have to make up 2 sample menus and a proposal letter for a new job. Ug. Crashing sucks.

Chat at you later, girl. I luv ya!

SS

I'm not sure I'm funny or smart. "Squirrely" is a term a friend of mine used to describe me. It's fitting. I will blame it on the ADD-like tendencies and total lack of concentration I have most days.

My emotions have taken a BIG nosedive today. No tears, I'm proud to say--just a sick feeling in my stomach and a lot of anxiety.

I'm grieving what I had once, probably because of this moving in with OW thing is bothering me a little more than I thought it would.

But I'm also really angry with myself for what I did 7 years ago and for selling my soul to have a pastor talk to me when I felt like my world was ending because of major problems and threats of D from WH, and then for not telling WH at the time out of fear he'd leave church and God (thus not giving him the opportunity to decide if he wanted to stay or to rightfully D me because of my infidelity.)

I know there are 35,000+ members who know my secret if they read my earlier threads, but I don't have to look any of them in the eye, nor do they speak to my pastor or my WH.

If my pastor finds out, I'm not sure I can ever go back to my church again. What really got to me last night was when he told me he was proud of me for all the growth I've shown over the past months.

All I could think was, "You have no idea who I really am, what I'm really like, and what I've lowered myself to in times past."

I deserve no complements. I was a WS, and not only that, but I kept this incident secret out of fear, and now I'm going to have to deal with it. I felt for so many years that it was dealt with after I asked God to forgive me. I almost put it out of my brain. Then whatever MP said that triggered it and I spilled it to her when I still trusted her (again--a big reminder not to trust anyone), and she told her H and he told WH.

Now it's all a big mess because I care too much about WH's life to change my mind and tell my pastor he can't talk to him if I Plan B. But I know in justifying his own guilt with OW, he will most likely bring up mine.

And then I'll deal with the same really dirty feeling again that makes me just want to give up on trying to be anything, and will be thinking I could be causing harm to my current church because if the pastor knows, he will be very uncomfortable with me in his congregation. I could find a new church where no one knows anything about me again. Just hate to because it takes me a long time to find a church were I'm comfortable and to get to know people, and I need Christian friends. Been going to this one 4 years and have just begun to open up.

I know...Satan is having a heyday with me today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And then I'll deal with the same really dirty feeling again that makes me just want to give up on trying to be anything, and will be thinking I could be causing harm to my current church because if the pastor knows, he will be very uncomfortable with me in his congregation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you go to a church that doesn't allow sinners? Hey, LL, relax. Your pastor has heard worse; I'm almost certain of it. It must be really hard for you not to be able to control the information and how it comes out, though. I guess the only way to control it now is to get there first. The price of leaving things in your husband's hands is the anxiety that comes with waiting for the possible (not definite) revelation. Tough choice, but you do have one.

I realize the best way to deal with this is to jus talk to my pastor. But it is very difficult to talk with anyone about, and especially to tell a male pastor about something with another male pastor, and in fact one he probably at least knew on an acquaintance level, as they are both with the same denomination (or were until the pastor left the state). I heard rumors from someone that this pastor had a several A's with women from his congregations, so I know I was one of many (most likely vulnerable and coming to him for help and Christian counseling just like I was). Doesn't make it any easier for me though.

I've considered trying to put something in writing but that seems sort of the chicken way out.

I'd rather confess it to a woman than a man, but that's not an option here.

LL

Make an appointment and go do it. I think you will be surprised by what he has to say. If he judges you, he isn't a very good pastor. He knows who is in charge of the judgement - and it ain't him.

Have some faith, lady!

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>
And then I'll deal with the same really dirty feeling again that makes me just want to give up on trying to be anything, and will be thinking I could be causing harm to my current church because if the pastor knows, he will be very uncomfortable with me in his congregation.LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he will probably CRAP when he finds out you are a...............a SINNER!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WHAT A SHOCK!!!

Good grief, get off your own back there, girl! If God can forgive you, then why can't YOU? You aren't better than God. Remember, Paul was a MURDERER and God forgave him.

LL, so what if your H tells your pastor? That is who you are. But also who you are is a person of Godly CHARACTER who repented of her sin. Don't forget the last part there. But you shouldn't be too proud for the pastor to know who you really are. He knows you don't walk on water, no one in his church does!

Please put away the baseball bat, you really don't need it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Probably a little bit hormonal, but I was at icky Walmart a few hours ago and some song was on and all I could think of was that it sounded like some funeral music or something and I thought about how I would be feeling if WH died. It was sad. I don't want him to die.

For some reason--not sure why--I'm just having a really sucky day today emotionally. I'm just blue-feeling. Can't shake it. Eating cookie dough didn't even help.

I've sat here for months and moaned about how painful it is to have a WS, and then it really hits me that I am (or have been) one, too. And maybe it's the fact that what transpired was with a pastor, a so-called man of God, though he should have not been in that position. Maybe it was because I lowered myself enough to smoke pot with him when he offered, before anything happened--not sure why--maybe to try and numb myself so it all didn't seem so screwed up? I didn't love the guy. I was just way too dependent on him for being there to counsel me when things were tough. (Lesson for me and everyone else---don't depend on ANYONE but the Lord.)

As it turned out, we didn't talk about me at all that I remember. So it was all for naught anyway.

Yes, I definitely repented. Gross, ugly thoughts I had for a long time. I felt like a prostitute because it was all an act just to get him to stay and talk to me and make me believe everything was going to be okay when life was crashing in on me.

Up until a few months ago when I spilled the news to MP, only one person had been told by me--another trustworthy friend of mine and the pastor who replaced the aforementioned one. And it took time to open up and tell him. And frankly, the only reason I did was because I was so afraid I might have exposed myself to HIV (though the risk was considerably smaller from what I did than if I'd actually had regular SF). I needed to talk to a pastor to reassure me that if I did have it, that not everyone would dessert me, that my church would still be there. He assured me he (and they) would, he's the one who told me that he heard the other pastor had also been with others from my church including a young summer missionary (who I remembered had arrived and suddenly went back home), and he's also the one who recommended I not tell my H because, since I repented and turned from it, that all it would do would be to cause hurt.

I waited the 6 months and was tested and thankfully I didn't have HIV. But the feelings of, oh, being dirt stayed with me for a while. I backslid and did some dumb stuff for a few months before I finally got it back together. But then I put it out of my mind and forgot about it until whatever triggered it's release to MP. Since then, it seems like each time I've put it away again, it comes popping back out.

And now, I need to just own up to my now-pastor about it. I know we're all sinners. But this is a very bad and very humiliating one. As far as closet skeletons go, this is a pretty big one.

He already knows I had a brief P/A years ago with a guy from work I was emotionally attached to. What's he going to think when I tell him this? (My guess: She's a slut.) Not sure if it's less shocking or more shocking. Wrong...just wrong.

LL

Why do you need to tell him this at all? You have already repented and it isn't relevent to your current situation. If your H tells him, then so be it. It is in the past and should stay there. You don't have to reconfess it every 5 years, LL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you thought about doing an intervention?

I have done a little reading/research, but there is really no one to help me with it. His family are the type who believe "live and let live". They won't get involved in others' business. He refuses to go to church, so our pastor would be a bad idea. And his friends/coworkers are just like him and it's several of them who he does this stuff with.

He really doesn't have any good influences who could participate with me in an intervention. And I can't do it by myself. So I don't see it as an option. (And honestly, I believe forcing him to treatment won't work unless he really agrees with it anyway).

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My laptop was in the shop so I've been away for a while. Just wanted to revisit this.....

Actually thanks LL, your posts and the responses have helped me a lot, especially from Melody and Pepper. Just so you know, I am a sober alcoholic of 12 years and alanon, a low bottom alanon.

First, let me say that alcoholism IS TREATABLE. The more you can do to interrupt the disease the better. That happens in alanon, and interventions.

The first intervention I did in 1992, I did by myself over the phone. He admitted he had a problem then went to treatment. It was at a family weekend I figured out I too was an alcoholic. That was 12 years ago.

He didn't stay sober. Last fall, I dstarted a "soft intervention" - I wrote a letter & read it to my husband. He wanted to come home not long after that & I reminded him that he had to be clean & sober. "oh"

Then I did a full blown intervention - he was killing himself and I wasn't going to watch him die without doing everything that was within MY power. This one I got help from a national organization. If there's not a branch near you, I am sure the guy who helped me would go through everything on the phone. He also did education which was very helpful for the kids.

The outcome of intervention doesn't have to be forcing someone to treatment. He may actually WANT to stop but not know how. I have heard my share of stories in AA that some were actually relieved and others felt like that after the anger subsided.

Now, for the low bottom alanon part. I first walked into alanon in 1987. I didn't get it - at all. I went a few times & didn't go back till 92 when the sh&t hit the fan again. I went a few times over 10 years, then went (finally) for me and for the right reasons in summer 2002. I had seen on these boards some really great alanons and I wanted that.

Now I am not the same person I was in 2002. Last week I saw an alanon lady who hadn't seen me in quite a while & commented how much I had changed - that I had a joy and peace about me. She wans't the only one who made a comment like that.

In 2002 I should have made some major moves with my husband, but I couldn't. So, I went to meetings, read alanon books, listened to alanon tapes and basically stayed in "awareness" .
I did a modified plan b, and began to get a real life for me. I had been consulting with Steve Harley this whole journey.

In my modified plan B, I never called WH. If he called me, I gave a short answer and hung up. I started sailing on a race crew ( which I love) and WH began to notice. He never said a word until began recovery. But he noticed the changes in me.

It's hard, it's hard, it's hard, but it is soooo worth it. It's scary, it's scary, it's scary, but when you take those little steps and have little victories, you feel better about your self. That spurs on further action.

I needed to read through this thread. Our recovery is rough. My husband is not going to AA, and has had drinks on occasion. He travels and I don't get a good feeling about what's going on with him. Something is not right, I'm just not sure what (yet) He never really repented so I know his concious is wrestling with him.

So, when he got back from his last trip, I had a letter for him (pep gave me feedback on) No drinking, drugging, must participate in recovery, and go to counseling. He agreed to counseling with Steve. For the moment I will go with that cuz I know Steve will address the recovery part.

Interesting don't you think, that today right after I talked to my husband about all of this, he had to "go out of town and left." Tells me something. Next step is to get the intervention guy back in along with our deacon & re-open the recovery thing. As Melody Lane said - she was forced into recovery out of love. I am doing all of this out of love.

I have come to realize that I will not seek a DV, that I am married for life. I will however separate if needed (again) If I left just one stone unturned, I would not feel right about myself. Through all of this, I am calm and at peace. I can only take the actions and leave the results up to God.

Darn, and I was going to bed early tonight !!!!


(((((((LL)))))))) God will see you through.

Blessings,

D.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> (He talked some more about wishing he could die. He asked me if I was paying his life insurance. He asked me to go ahead and let the jack down, which I almost did out of habit, and then realized he was still under the car.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just read this whole exhange - had skipped over it before

LL - pay attention to this ... he's ripe for recovery. If you don't do an intervention call the central office of AA and ask for help. They will send someone out to do a 12 step call.

He's giving you all the signs ... he wants help... he doesn't know how to do it on his own,.

D.