Sorry if the thread I started did not address what you were after.

Apparently I was mistaken in what it was, you were looking for.

As I edited there, MY bad.

later....have a good one

Heroswife:
Good morning.

Let me start by saying that I feel that I have offended you, and for that I humbly apologize.
I am embarrassed to say that I let my own situation here at home guide me into being very hyper sensitive, and as an end result I edited my post.
One more person here letting His emotions lead him to another poor choice.

My regret comes from the fact that I was actual pretty excited about taking on this task. However, I was also just as worried and uptight about it. (may sound silly) ....but just airing ALL the facts out there all at once........just made me feel very naked and vulnerable. (yea, yea boo hoo me).
Just wanted you to know that so that perhaps the rest makes some sense.

Too tell you the truth I don't even know if you actually saw it.

In any case, my W did see it.
Unfortunately, We had been having just about the worst holiday weekend I can remember (not in the Nc walker/ RAP category) but worse then its been here in say the last 6 months.
Anyway to cut to it, she saw me continuing to come here and check on this post over the entire weekend. I was getting a bit ANSI as there was no responses at all.
(I can now relate to anyone who's posted and just sat and waited for any type of comments at all. It does make you kind of crazy).
As I waited, my W made some very stinging comments about the thread, once she read it. Being that I was already sensitive about just "doing" it, then getting hypersensitive from NO responses, she just pushed my emotions over the edge and I snapped. She was able to do this only because their was Already so much tension between us at the time.
Bottom line is that it has more to do with her and I, then anything else. I simply wanted to remove anything that was being used to cause me pain. So that's what I did.

Once again I am extremely embarrassed by my actions.

Just know this: that I would be honored to answer the questions you have posed to me. As well as any more that come to mind during your journey to save your M.
You are so early on in this whole process, that any advise, help or insight I could provide you...would make it seem like all the pain I've suffered at least mean something.
Also know that I do identify with your situation on So Many levels.
And as I do see the many similarities, I want for you to NOT have to go through all the unnecessary "junk" I have experienced.
In addition, I responded to your posts because I feel that you have handled yourself so well, with such grace and dignity.......that you deserve any help I could offer.
If our posting can just let you miss 1/2 the traps and pit falls I went through, it would be worth it. And even if you can't miss them entirely, at least you could be prepared emotionally and mentally to Deal with each challenge. (and boy are they)

Any way before I embarrass myself further...I am going to begin to work on the actual questions you posed to me.
Hopefully I can answer them in a way to be of some benefit to you and your M.
My intentions have only been to attempt to help (although I wonder sometimes).
So I'll just get started.

All my best
TAKE Care

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

NOW to your questions.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Heroswife: How is your W dealing with the guilt?
Does she have guilt, even?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, my W feels a tremendous amount of guilt. She most definitely HAS not forgiven herself for all the things she has done. With her personality (perfectionist) she can't handle that she messed up this much and for sooo long.
Unfortunately, her way of dealing with it most times is to just push and stuff it down, which frightens me. As this is the way she has ALWAYS dealt with these types of emotional issues. I'm scared because this type of action (NOT expressing feelings, especially negative ones) is what contributed to her affair. I never know when she is sad or angry and even if I do....I have to guess at the reasons.
She also feels so angry about getting "used" by this OM. Believing his lies and even falling in love with him. That has to be a bitter pill to swallow, after the fact.

She has expressed her sorrow to me. But I want to hear it like everyday. (just for my own reassurance). She says it like once a month (maybe), claims saying she sorry makes her feel even more guilty by having to THINK about what she's done.
In some ways that's what I want. NOT as a punishment, but keeping the consequences fresh in her mind, and use it as an incentive to make progress. Although she did type me out a nice letter about 4-5 months ago. I think she thinks that's enough. Just a difference in opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Heroswife: Do you think it's silly of me to feel sorry for him? Did you or do you ever feel sorry for your W when feels guilty? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I feel very sorry for my W, that she got herself into this situation so deeply.
By talking to her and getting the whole story, I can see how each step in the process just seemed like taking it "only a LITTLE further". But by the time it was full blown, she was so far away from who she used to be, that she couldn't even recognize herself. That is one of her challenge now, as she still many days doesn't KNOW who she is. She really lost herself in all this (both in the A, and even since). In many ways she is still lost to herself and therefore lost to me.

I have been empathetic to her feelings in all this from D-day on.
NOT saying I always keep a lid on things. As an example most days I do think she is genuinely sorry for what she's done. However, when I get angry or feeling hurt and down, I tend to turn the reasons she is sorry.
I say to myself "She's sorry for getting caught, sorry she can't have fun anymore, sorry the OM is out of her life, sorry that she ever confessed".
I know its not constructive thinking, but sometimes I just let myself sink down into these depressed areas, cause I just hurt so much and feel sooo low.

No, I don't think it is silly of you to feel pity for your H. In fact, your being able to empathize with him, is a strong indicator IF you will be able to salvage this M.
Keep in mind you may even make yourself angry at times (AT yourself) for feeling sorry for him. But in my mind the ability to show him compassion, is an asset ...not something to put yourself down for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Heroswife: How have your kids dealt with all of this? Do they even know what happened? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, my children do know some of what happened. They know mommy had a boyfriend, what his first name is, and that mommy has told a lot of lies.
My oldest, of course, understands the most. She is almost 9.
None of this was done intentionally.
However, at the start of all this (say first 3 months) my W and I fought a lot.
Like just about everyday. And I mean loud shouting matches. Some times for hours.
Our kids had never until then seen us fight at all (as we just never did.....both conflict avoiders).
Even though we sent the kids to other rooms they couldn't help but hear us.(Like looking back now......DUH!). Just right then, I didn't care, or not at least enough to stop.
In our own pain and grief, we failed them by not considering the consequences. Just like my W didn't consider the consequences of her A.
This is something I'll regret to my very end. They should NEVER have to bear the brunt for our sins. But that's not how it works is it.
The sins of the fathers shall be brought down to the 3rd and 4th generations. (or something close to that).

However, our kids have benefited from this, strange as it may seem.
My W and I no longer put ALL of our focus on them (which we used to let our world revolve around the kids and not OUR relationship).
Surprisingly, doing this has seemed to make the kids happier, guess cause Mom and Dad have a more "normal" relationship. (??)

Let me interject that If there is anything you want further clarification on (as we don't always focus on what the person asking is looking for) then just ask again.
There may just be certain aspects that I'm not addressing but are of importance to you. So let me know.

I will end this one for now, as I want to post them to you, cause I'm feeling like I've wasted time feeling sorry for myself this past weekend. So I'd like to rectify that, if possible.

These both came out pretty fast so the depth my suffer. Try to do better in the future.
Thanks for reading.
Hope you enjoyed your holiday.
More to come ( if you want). If a bother, just let me know that too.

Top -

I was not offended in any way shape or form. I honestly didn't see your post. The holiday weekend was a bit stressful for me as well. I didn't come to the board at all. I haven't posted much this week and didn't even look for my thread. I was worried about Roughroad and what she was going through so I searched for her and that was it. She had a big weekend with her WH...we were all waiting to see what would happen.

So I'll go read your other post to me now and post again. I just wanted to add this note before I did. I'm sorry I didn't see your other post before you edited it. And I'm sorry it caused a wave for you this weekend.

I know you are working on recovery like the rest of us here...or those lucky enough to make it this far. The people on this board are a blessing. I'm not sure what I would do without you all. I just don't feel so alone anymore.

Thanks heroswife, i know this is kind of your thread but as i pray for you i try to keep updates on your situation so i read the above responses. God will continue to bless you for helping others despite the trials and tribulations you are going through. continued prayers to you and yours, RR

Top -

After reading your answers to my questions I realized our situations are more similar then I thought. My H also pushes his feelings down and doesn't display his emotions. I think his A had a lot to do with that. It's like he never shows me when he's not happy or when somethis bothers him. I think the way he deals with things really caused problems after he came back from Iraq.

I think I'm the exact opposite though. I do not avoid conflict and I'm very expressive of my emotions...this is not a good thing. It's like we have one extreme to the other in my house.

I think the fact that your W shows guilt is a positive thing...it's bad for her but it proves to you that she realizes what she did is wrong and is sorry for it. I'm not sure I could do this if my H didn't show me he feels bad. I do not see that a me punishing him...it's like you say "keeping the consequences fresh in her mind".

I've read other threads where the WS shows no guilt. I do not see how that can lead to a healthy recovery.

At one point...shortly after D-day I had the same feelings you described about my H being sorry he got caught. I remember making the statement "you're the theif sitting in jail, not sorry you stole but you sure sorry you're in prison". That was not one of my finer moments. I had trouble with Plan A. I was too hurt to focus yet looking back I amaze myself and some of the things I was able to do.

As for your children I'm sure it is very confusing for them. I have a 9 yr old as well. I'm positive she knew what was going on. After D-day things were very ugly. When my H moved us up here I think she knew the person we spoke of was here as well. She hates this place because she associates it with all the turmoil we've been groing through. She's suffered enough with the war and my H being gone...there's just no way to shield children from all of this.

Did you ever sit your children down and talk to them about what was going on? Did you ever discuss divorce with them?

I think my 9 year old knows we were very close to getting a D...she really didn't understand the concept. One day she told me about a friend of hers who's parents were splitting...she cried. I think that's when it hit her that we might not live in the same house. I was destroyed. I hope she can recover from all of this. She seems fine now but who knows what's going through her mind. I too, regret them seeing us go through this.

I think in another thread of mine from months ago I detailed a fight we had that woke up the children. It was pretty crazy and my kids saw me in a crazed state. It was a point where my H had no guilt and was saying he was going to leave me. I left the house with every intention to end my life. I'm sure my 9 year old knew that it was bad. She has never seen me out of control like that. I will never forgive myself for the damage I cuased in that one night alone.

I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and let me get to know and understand your situation. It has been very helpful. I think just seeing someone else go through what I'm going through helps us avoid certain situations. I think everyone's recovery is unique. I've tried to help others on this board with things I've learned so far. One area I post on more then others is exposure. I put exposure off for too long and finally I just did it. And just like the people on this board told me...it worked. I am not very good at giving advice on Plan A...I was not the best plan A'er in the world but I know it works.

And you have not wasted any of my time. I do appreciate you for taking the time to post to me about your situation and allowing me to learn from you...it's help not a bother.